Thought forms.....

[Nikolai]

I've heard Robert Bruce discussing the creation of weapons with your thoughts in the astral. Can you create a being of some sort? Could you create some sort creature with thoughts and actions of its own? If possible do you think it's wrong?

[Akashic_Librarian]

I don't really think creation of a being with its own intelligence is within the limits of ones energy level. A group of people could, I think. However you can create a being without intelligence, who only follows your command.

I don't think it is wrong, because after all. we create our own reality. :)

[Nikolai]

I see.... I was hoping to create some sort of berserker bodyguard type being. Hmmm... I guess I'm just a loser. :D Thanks for the reply!

[Rhone]

I believe you could create yourself an astral bodyguard. I wouldn't expect to be capable of giving it true intelligence or sentience, but I believe you could program it with a simple purpose of driving away any negativity around you.

For it to be effective, I think you'd have to put a lot of time, effort, and energy into creating, programming, and especially maintaining it.

[Nikolai]

I see.... Does the complexity of what's created determine the time/energy/effort required to produce it? Have any of you done something like this? Any estimates on the time required to create this being?

[Rhone]

I see.... Does the complexity of what's created determine the time/energy/effort required to produce it?

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I'd certainly imagine the answer is yes.

My intuition and logic tell me that it would be most effective to stick with one purpose/task per thought form and to create multiple thought-forms as needed, rather than trying to create a single thoughtform with multiple tasks.

Keep in mind that when you need to heal, you can raise healing energy. When you need to defend yourself, you can raise the proper energy for that. I'm not sure if it's possible to give a thought-form the ability to do that. So it's best if you give your thought-form one task, with the appropriate energy for doing that task.

[AlexK]

I've heard Robert Bruce discussing the creation of weapons with your thoughts in the astral. Can you create a being of some sort? Could you create some sort creature with thoughts and actions of its own? If possible do you think it's wrong?
Always I do. It's sensed as weapon because it hurts your-self. It hurts so much that it's no of importance - could it hurt others. Most of importance is to stop hurting it your-self. :shock:

[D.B.]

I've heard Robert Bruce discussing the creation of weapons with your thoughts in the astral. Can you create a being of some sort? Could you create some sort creature with thoughts and actions of its own? If possible do you think it's wrong?

I don't claim to be an expert or anything; far from it, but I've read a few books discussing the creation of thought forms for specific purposes, including K. Amber's Basics of Magick and Dion Fortune's various works (Very amazing woman, one of the few people I truely look up to) and it's commonplace to create thoughtforms to protect yourself or your loved ones, and also quite natural to give your other thoughtforms methods of defending themselves.

A word of warning however about artificial elementals vs. constructs. Artificial elementals are thoughtforms given power and life through the use of your energy while constructs use energy obtained from around them (nature). both of these can go horribly wrong however, if neglected; most practicioners have a shiver story about a ward or construct gone rotten and turned destructive toward its intended protectee. Artificial elementals can turn nasty as well, obtaining a conciousness of their own and drawing large amounts of energy from their master, until the creator keels over dead as from an energy vampire. i'm sure more than one Neg has been born this way.

i'm not saying that this will without fail happen to you; I'm just saying play it safe and read up on the subject and ask experienced peole about the process. (Don't look at me, haha, there's plenty of people on this forum who make me look like a mewling baby... no kidding)

[Aunt Clair]

Franz Bardon instructs how to form elementaries and elementals in step 7 of Initiation into Hermetics . Here is a link ;
http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/ ... 723.0.html (http://forums.riverofenlightenment.com/index.php/topic,723.0.html)

I've heard Robert Bruce discussing the creation of weapons with your thoughts in the astral. Can you create a being of some sort? Could you create some sort creature with thoughts and actions of its own? If possible do you think it's wrong?

As to the first question, yes. This is often called an Egregore (http://www.gatesofmysticism.net/wiki/index.php?title=Egregore)

As to the second question, well that's really debatable. Most personally created egregore's need to be programed to be destroyed after thirty days, but psychic programs which still fall into this category (apologies, I haven't gotten to that yet in that wiki article,) aren't sentient in the way we think of them. The kinds of beings you describe are oft created on accident by children. (AKA "Imaginary Friends.")

[Aunt Clair]

Egregore (also "Egregor") is an occult concept representing a "thought form" or "collective group mind", an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people. The symbiotic relationship between an egregore and its group has been compared to the more recent, non-occult concepts of the corporation (as a legal entity) and the meme.

Elemental is in modern occultism the word "elemental" can also be used to mean any simple or only partly sentient spiritual entity. These entities can be entirely natural (for instance, the spirit of a group of trees) or can be created by magicians or sorcerers to perform a task for them. The latter type are called servitors. This kind of "subservient" or "man-made" elemental can be found mentioned in the works of Austin Osman Spare or Aleister Crowley. They are a vital concept in modern Chaos Magic.

According to Franz Bardon;
Elementals have purpose only
Elementals are made of one element in the mental realm

Elementaries are made of one or more elements in any realm or a combination thereof
Elementaries have life and are a child or clone of the magician who is karmically responsible for their actions

[AlexK]

Egregore (also "Egregor") is an occult concept representing a "thought form" or "collective group mind"...
What if it's everything is opposite: a human is "thought-form" of the God (see concept of R. Bruce about consciense) but Egregor is God's concept, the “structure” based on the units=humans=”thought-forms”. It doesn’t mean we are going to be but it means most “solid” part of our nature. We do not mean to kill but it kills. We do not mean to judge but it’s “Law & Order”.

[CFTraveler]

Egregore (also "Egregor") is an occult concept representing a "thought form" or "collective group mind"...
What if it's everything is opposite: a human is "thought-form" of the God (see concept of R. Bruce about consciense) but Egregor is God's concept, the “structure” based on the units=humans=”thought-forms”. It doesn’t mean we are going to be but it means most “solid” part of our nature. We do not mean to kill but it kills. We do not mean to judge but it’s “Law & Order”. Huh? No comprendo.
Do you mean that we're the egregore's creation, instead of the egregore being our group-creation?

[AlexK]

Huh? No comprendo.
I see. :D You always understand me perfectly (I guess) but you keep up with the same expression. :lol: What egregore does own this your expression, do you think? :wink:


Do you mean that we're the egregore's creation, instead of the egregore being our group-creation?
It’s everything is only my personal point of view. I hope that this opinion could be interesting to somebody.

First of all,
I think that thought-form is more metaphor then real chain of words. Our consciousness is not chained in any language but it “obeys” egregores “composing it”. Free Will is only one arm to choose something between "hosting" me egregore/s. It’s limited with personal karma, I guess.=self-created ?real-time zone?
Consciousness uses sense, I guess. There is verbalization of “thoughts”/sense as important part of consciousness. It could be done in language, in painting, in music, in architecture, cooking etc. How do we teach our kids? We ask them to tell what do they think about read. It creates bridge, I hope, between initiated predefined “thoughts”/senses and physical world=(partly) world of words=?real-time zone? When I start write down my dream (astral experience in words or pictures), I stimulate download of astral body’s experience into my “physical” “thought-form” memory. It pools out the other details, even other dreams. That’s how Pygmalion “created” Galatea. He actually didn’t create her, he has made "thought-form" to call her from billions women arround. Every man in this way is Pygmalion and every woman is Galatea of her loving one.
Let’s say there is deep abstract astral (as "complex of predefined possible senses") and there is real-time zone (as complex of “verbalized thought-forms”). First one has no our time and dimension. Second one has some known time-space related representation.

Excuse me for so long speech.
Shortly, I’d say that we are composed from the elements of certain egregores. I believe, that egregores exist through us (being represented in you, in me, in him etc). We “feed” them through own existence. Church is egregore, family is egregore, country is egregore. I could choose little bit (depending on my free will source) between one egregore and another but not so much.
(I've deleted possible sources of (g)hostility. :lol: )
It’s my personal opinion.

[CFTraveler]

There is long tail of real-time-zone load making you "No comprehendo" when in fact you do. :shock: Do I sense a bit of hostility in that remark? Hmmm.
Now I do: Archetype as creative power that manifests as matter, which channels creative power and creates an egregore. In other words, we're really archetypes experiencing ourselves as temporal, which in turn manifest as egregores.
Interesting.

[AlexK]

Do I sense a bit of hostility in that remark? Hmmm.
Now I do:...Interesting.
Why are you looking for hostility?
Is it because of my thought-forms or it is because of yours?
Honestly, I've drowned a bit in your explanations of archetypes. "No comprehendo", as you like to say. :lol: I'm not sure I know exactly the same as you about them.

[CFTraveler]

Why are you looking for hostility? I'm not looking for hostility- but when you claim to know what's in my head and criticize the way I convey confusion,as in

There is long tail of real-time-zone load making you "No comprehendo" when in fact you do. it sounds like you're interpreting my words in a not-friendly way. In fact it sounds some sort of accusation. Do you not see that?

[AlexK]

[quote]Why are you looking for hostility? I'm not looking for hostility- but when you claim to know what's in my head and criticize the way I convey confusion,as in

There is long tail of real-time-zone load making you "No comprehendo" when in fact you do. it sounds like you're interpreting my words in a not-friendly way. In fact it sounds some sort of accusation. Do you not see that?[/quote:192lq3tl]
I didn’t claim to know what is hidden in your head. All I meant (for me) is written in your couple of phrases. My Spanish friend explained to me that your "No comprendo" means "Not comprehend" but I think it rather means "you better get out". :lol:
I don't see any friendly attitude from your side from the beginning but it is not reason for any hostility in my attitude to you.
Be happy and as healthier as you can. Merry Christmas!
I'll not bother you any more with my thought-forms. :?

[CFTraveler]

Merry Christmas to you too.