Link between Schizophrenia & OBE's

[Kittahkatt]

Hello, I want to discuss the link between OBE's and mental illness. My father is Schizophrenic and recently I got into regular contact with him. We got into a discussion recently about OBE's and I've come to find out where this ability came from. Let me elaborate a little more, OBE's started happening to me spontaneously a couple years ago. Before that I had strange experiences through dreams, or now what I would call possible OBE's but I didn't know what it was at the time. Now, my dad has been a chronic paranoid Schizophrenic for 22 years and recently stopped drinking which is why I decided to make contact with him. He talks about strange things, some in which I recognize from my own readings, others just seem like mindless blabber. He's very interested in the metaphysical and believes that he has battled demons and aliens. He reads a LOT on the occult, magic, and Egyptian and Hindu mythology. I've noticed a link between my dad's experiences with mine, along with our beliefs even though we have not maintained steady contact over the years. I decided to bluntly ask him after he was talking about going into outer space, "When you have these experiences are you saying that you travel out of body?" In which he responded yes. So basically his delusions could be described as being like out of body experiences. He also told me he gave me a genie, or a jinn so to speak. He told me he uses magic to summon his genie using a spell. He said it to me, but it was long and I didn't quite catch all of it but he said something about a middle pillar and to read about it. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject? I'm interested to read about other people's views.

[lord.of.the.now]

If out of body experience is a hallucination it would overlap the hallucination over waking reality in the waking state the hallucination. But this is probably not the case

Basically the guy would be hallucinogenically blind in the waking state if obe's is a hallucination

[CFTraveler]

I agree with LOTN.
The OBE only happens in the body asleep mind awake state, while schizophrenia is a 'on all the time' phenomenon. You can induce hallucinations (and some will say that this is exactly what we do) but the schizophrenic disease is one of a combination of effects, some controllable with drugs, others not so much.

[Dreamweaver]

Schizophrenia is a really complex condition, there's more than one kind, and it involves a lot more than hallucinations.

I think that part of whats happening with a schizophrenic brain is that brain states resemble alpha-theta patterns more often while awake. There is a problem with reality testing - that is a schizophrenic mind has difficulty discriminating between the qualities of a hallucinogenic object of consciousness and a concrete reality object of consciousness. Within a certain range in the schizophrenic spectrum there is also a tendency for receptive and expressive language to be organized by the structure of metaphor - as in the dream or vision states.

I have schizophrenia in my family tree and I really see it as being in an in between state.

[WhiteMonkey]

Also one of my friend has this condition. I talked so often with him it is really interesing what he is seeing and experiencing.

In my opinion he desproyed the border between the dimensions so they overlap all the time and he sees sometimes this one sometimes thqt one and so one. But he also has lost the possibilities to make a difference between them.

You know how easily the astral plane changes according to our mind. So this happens a lot if u have an unstable minde.

Consider this both together and you have something called halluzination.

Does that makes sense?

[-asalantu-]

Just a thought...

¿Can belief system expansion and energy body development (the both after development of OBE capabilities) converge giving as sequel schyzophrenia symptoms?

My best regards,
Ángel

[CFTraveler]

Maybe temporarily, but I don't think so.

[ButterflyWoman]

As it happens, I've known a lot of schizophrenics. Partly, this is because I spent some time in the mental health system (not for schizophrenia, however), and partly, I don't know, I just seem to have known rather a lot of them. I also did a lot of research into various mental illness, because there was a period where I feared I might be schizophrenic, myself (I was not, however).

Essentially, schizophrenia is a disorder of the brain where the person loses the ability to put things in context. Just as possible examples, one's own thoughts may be perceived as voices that are not one's own. Things heard on the radio or seen on television might be later recalled, but without the context of having been broadcasts, and someone might just think that Billy Joel had been in their living room (have seen that happen, actually). Thoughts may wander and the person having the thoughts is unable to separate random, wandering thoughts from physical reality, so they insist that, for example, Billy Joel is their son-in-law (again, have seen that happen).

Essentially, the brain is getting signals all the time, from itself and the material world, and for schizophrenics, there's a breakdown in the system that enables someone to separate their thoughts and other input, and it all gets jumbled up. Brain scans of schizophrenics (especially ones who have gone undiagnosed and unmedicated) show much wider clefts in the brain, so the neuron transmitters have to "jump" farther, and the theory is that they sometimes get scrambled on the way. And, of course, another frustrating thing about schizophrenia is that it can come and go, so some days are relatively lucid and "normal", and others are entirely delusional. It's a distressing condition on all counts. :(

(For the record: I didn't come up with the theory about context. I read that in a scientific study some years ago, and it made the most sense of anything I've ever read on the subject, based on my experience of schizophrenics.)

So that's my frame of reference for schizophrenia, and it seems to me that the experience of OBE is probably not especially related. I don't think schizophrenics are any more or less likely to experience OBE than anyone else. It's a fairly universal phenomenon, if not a terribly common one, so there's no reason why you couldn't have both OBE experience and schizophrenia in the same person. I've also never known a schizophrenic to have that kind of delusion. Most of the people I've known with schizophrenia would tell delusional stories (note: I use delusional in the clinical sense, not in the internet perjorative sense) that were woven from things that they experienced in the material world, and occasionally with their own thoughts and ideas interwoven. If they are natural OBE experiencers, there's no reason why they wouldn't include that in their stories.

Just some random thoughts. I don't know if it's of any interest or value, but there it all is. ;)

[-asalantu-]

I understand, ButterflyWoman; thank you.

Typically, ¿abnormal social behaviour (like that of an hermit) can seed schyzophrenic episodes? ¿Fasting can be a factor contributing to such status?

My best regards,
Ángel

[ButterflyWoman]

Schizophrenia is a disorder of the physical brain. Lots of things can trigger it, including certain kinds of illegal drug abuse. I don't know that living as a hermit would do it, but it's not uncommon for schizophrenics to want to live entirely on their own. It's apparently more peaceful for some to exist without other people around them all the time. I'm not schizophrenic, but I feel that way a lot of the time. Other people are exhausting, or they can be.

[-asalantu-]

It is known meditation (classically main hermit activity) can trigger spontaneous Kundalini awakening.

So, taking into account previous answer from you, ¿is a myth that Kundalini awakening leads into schizophrenic disorder?

My best regards,
Ángel

[ButterflyWoman]

It is known meditation (classically main hermit activity) can trigger spontaneous Kundalini awakening.

So, taking into account previous answer from you, ¿is a myth that Kundalini awakening leads into schizophrenic disorder?
Well, I don't know, and I doubt there are any sort of studies on the subject. And I think it can be said that Kundalini probably doesn't change the physical shape of your brain (which is what happens with schizophrenia).

That said, it's certainly true that Kundalini can cause all manner of disruptions, emotional, physical, mental, spiritual, you name it. So... while I can't say yes, I will say that it wouldn't really surprise me to hear of it having that effect, particularly in someone who was already genetically prone to developing schizophrenia.

[heliac]

Too much meditation can contribute to unwanted spiritual awakenings. Not sure if it causes schizophrenia.

Interestingly enough obe is a sign of epilepsy. There has been a few times where I've had light seizures while obe'ing. I think this is very abnormal though and only happened while I was practicing as if for the astral Olympics.
Link to epilepsy obe article
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3923147/#!po=0.284091

[CFTraveler]

OBE is not a sign of epilepsy. The phenomenon called autoscopy can be a symptom of certain types of epilepsy, (and autoscopy is not OBE) but the epilepsy blamed for this (temporal lobe epilepsy) is usually diagnosed with no actual physical testing if the person reports having out of body experiences or persistent deja vu.
It's a case of the tail leading the horse.

[Dreamweaver]

It might help to look up etiology and symptoms of schizophrenia - here's a mobile link:

http://m.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/mental_health_disorders/schizophrenia_85,P00762/

[ButterflyWoman]

Too much meditation can contribute to unwanted spiritual awakenings. Not sure if it causes schizophrenia.
In fact, meditation is used as therapy for a number of brain and nervous system disorders, and for various mental illnesses. It actually strengthens and physically improves certain areas of the brain (mostly in the brain stem). There's plenty of research on this topic available if you want to learn more.

[dontco]

This is from an article from the New York Times:

"People who struggle with schizophrenia suffer delusions of unknown origin. Dr. Hobson suggests that these flights of imagination may be related to an abnormal activation of a dreaming consciousness. “Let the dreamer awake, and you will see psychosis,” Jung said."
I tend to agree... (very interesting article (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/health/10mind.html?_r=0), BTW, but it's about dreams).

[ButterflyWoman]

Oh, yes, Jung is one of my kindred spirits throughout history. I totally get Jung, and I have, myself, made the observation that dementia and various forms of psychosis seem exactly like someone is dreaming. Similar kinds of tangental logic and symbolic representations and so on.

[eyeoneblack]

I accidentally missed a key and came here. Here's a good place, and is certainly a good place to hang around. So I thought I'd see what's going on?

Oliver Sacks, in his book Hallucinations, finds that very many neurological disorders (Schizophrenia and epilepsy included) produce hallucinations of many sorts. The take-away is more of a question than an answer; 'where am I on this wide spectrum of otherworldly experiences?

We had a visitor some years ago who was a full-fledged schizophrenic. He was fascinating to chat with and the insights I obtained from his descriptions of the 'world' he occupies illuminated my own 'normal' experiences.