How do you know you're not lucid dreaming?

[outofbodydude]

I would like feedback from anyone who believes that they are sure that their OBEs are in fact genuine OBEs and not simply lucid dreams. How do you know you are actually out of your body rather than having a lucid dream?

[CFTraveler]

I am sure that most of my OBEs are genuine out of body experiences to the real time zone, but not all of them. Only the ones I've verified.

[outofbodydude]

I am sure that most of my OBEs are genuine out of body experiences to the real time zone, but not all of them. Only the ones I've verified.

But the question is, HOW do you know this? How can you be certain that you are not simply lucid dreaming and what you believe is the real time zone is actually a more or less stable dream environment like that of a lucid dream? How can you be certain that the environment exists independent of your mind and is not simply a subconscious creation?

[Dreamweaver]

Because when you gave done it enough, there is a knowing, and others who know recognize it. Phenomenal experience often does not have some scientifically quantifiable, objectively observable sign. There only is subjective expression and recognition from others who have likewise experienced that "thing" and then in the sharing, a contribution to a consensus reality.

[outofbodydude]

Because when you gave done it enough, there is a knowing, and others who know recognize it. Phenomenal experience often does not have some scientifically quantifiable, objectively observable sign. There only is subjective expression and recognition from others who have likewise experienced that "thing" and then in the sharing, a contribution to a consensus reality.

Yes, I am well familiar with this state of knowing. But in my experience, this "knowing" is essentially saying, "you are having a conscious experience beyond the bounds of your physical body." What this knowing is not saying is, "you are in an objective nonphysical environment that exists independent of your own mind, rather than a subconsciously created world." When lucid dreaming there is likewise a knowing that one's consciousness is experiencing another level of reality, but again, it generally doesn't provide precise information of where one is or the details of the nature of one's experience and environment. Also, I wouldn't look past the possibility that this "knowing" is simply the feeling-expression of one's belief in at least some of the cases. There is also a huge difference between the "knowing" that occurs in the real-time zone and lower astral dimensions and the "KNOWING" that occurs in higher-level dimensions in which union with the Higher Self and Source is present. There is no shred of doubt in the state of knowing of the latter.

[CFTraveler]

But the question is, HOW do you know this? How can you be certain that you are not simply lucid dreaming and what you believe is the real time zone is actually a more or less stable dream environment like that of a lucid dream? How can you be certain that the environment exists independent of your mind and is not simply a subconscious creation? Because subconscious creations are not verifiable. Which is why I said "Only the ones I've verified."

[outofbodydude]

Because subconscious creations are not verifiable. Which is why I said "Only the ones I've verified."

You said that you are sure that most of your OBEs are genuine, and then said that only the ones you have verified you are certain of, which would logically indicate that most of your OBEs have been verified. Perhaps you did not mean this, but regardless, I would be interested in hearing some of these verifications and how they prove a genuine out-of-body reality. Thanks for the response! :)

Just to be clear, I am not doubting you or anyone else. I am fairly certain that many of my 15+ years of OBEs have been valid experiences as well. I simply want to hear how others have come about gaining this certainty themselves.

[CFTraveler]

What I meant to say is that because I have verified certain type of OBEs, (realtime zone OBEs), I have to deduce that most of them are 'real' in the consensus reality sense. I obviously can't know for sure that all were real, but the ones I verified were of this type.
Here's some I remember:
Flew to a party as a child and saw who was there and what some people were wearing. Told my mom, after she had an apoplectic fit (she thought I had somehow found a way to the party, sneaking there) she verified my observations.
My son and my husband went to a friends house- I stayed home, and took a 'nap'- flew to where they were going, and was amazed to see them playing on the roof of a very dangerous-looking treehouse. I was so upset it broke the trance. Later on, when they came home, they verified that his friend's dad had built him a new treehouse and he did indeed climb on the roof, for which he got an earful.
Another time my husband had gotten a new job, and I saw him in a white room with some weird looking pins and little round metal balls in what looked like a tackle box. I called him to 'say hi' and he verified that he had been changing the locks of his workplace, and the thing I had seen was a locksmith's box and the pins and 'balls' were differently-sized pins, that go on the inside of a lock. My husband is not a locksmith, but is a quick learner, and that's what he was doing.
A friend and I had the same dream, a somber thing, in which we were going up north to a funeral. A friend of us was driving. Even though we were not close, she did tell me about it, astounding me as I had the same dream, but had not especially thought it was anything more than a dream. Then a coworker of ours died and she had to be driven to her home state, and the driver in the dream was the driver in reality. We had the dream approximately a week before the event happened, but this one, although not a realtime RTZ projection, had some interesting elements in it. I only mention it because I am not precognitive, I believe what happened is that my friend might be, and for some reason I projected into her dream, making it a weird experience with various elements.
There are many many more, but I can't think of anything with such clear verifications.
I hope this answers your question.

[outofbodydude]

What I meant to say is that because I have verified certain type of OBEs, (realtime zone OBEs), I have to deduce that most of them are 'real' in the consensus reality sense. I obviously can't know for sure that all were real, but the ones I verified were of this type.
Here's some I remember:
Flew to a party as a child and saw who was there and what some people were wearing. Told my mom, after she had an apoplectic fit (she thought I had somehow found a way to the party, sneaking there) she verified my observations.
My son and my husband went to a friends house- I stayed home, and took a 'nap'- flew to where they were going, and was amazed to see them playing on the roof of a very dangerous-looking treehouse. I was so upset it broke the trance. Later on, when they came home, they verified that his friend's dad had built him a new treehouse and he did indeed climb on the roof, for which he got an earful.
Another time my husband had gotten a new job, and I saw him in a white room with some weird looking pins and little round metal balls in what looked like a tackle box. I called him to 'say hi' and he verified that he had been changing the locks of his workplace, and the thing I had seen was a locksmith's box and the pins and 'balls' were differently-sized pins, that go on the inside of a lock. My husband is not a locksmith, but is a quick learner, and that's what he was doing.
A friend and I had the same dream, a somber thing, in which we were going up north to a funeral. A friend of us was driving. Even though we were not close, she did tell me about it, astounding me as I had the same dream, but had not especially thought it was anything more than a dream. Then a coworker of ours died and she had to be driven to her home state, and the driver in the dream was the driver in reality. We had the dream approximately a week before the event happened, but this one, although not a realtime RTZ projection, had some interesting elements in it. I only mention it because I am not precognitive, I believe what happened is that my friend might be, and for some reason I projected into her dream, making it a weird experience with various elements.
There are many many more, but I can't think of anything with such clear verifications.
I hope this answers your question.

Awesome verifications! Some would argue the possibility of these being ESP events rather than actual OBEs, but I see no reason to assume this is the case. Thanks again :)

[GRANT]

Hi,
If you are not lucid dreaming, you will project knowingly. You will consciously leave your body as a fact.
Grant

[outofbodydude]

Hi,
If you are not lucid dreaming, you will project knowingly. You will consciously leave your body as a fact.
Grant

With respect, I don't think you understood what this thread is about. If there is logic behind your statement, I think it was lost in translation.

[heliac]

But the question is, HOW do you know this? How can you be certain that you are not simply lucid dreaming and what you believe is the real time zone is actually a more or less stable dream environment like that of a lucid dream? How can you be certain that the environment exists independent of your mind and is not simply a subconscious creation?

It may be that we can't really know for sure, but i'm leaning more towards OBE being a form of lucid dream as you have already said. Seems to me OBEs occur in your mind just like dreams do. Sure we can have OBEs that feel like it's something more than a lucid dream and for some people that is enough to believe that an OBE is literally an example of consciousness existing outside of the body.

How you explain the OBE will depend on how you interpret it. So if you want to know more about how to explain OBEs you will need to ask yourself lots of questions that will allow you to look at how you think and how your thoughts and feelings inform your beliefs. Are your own and others personal experience or testimony enough to convince you? How do you value experience as evidence to whatever claims about OBE you are thinking about?

[outofbodydude]

It may be that we can't really know for sure, but i'm leaning more towards OBE being a form of lucid dream as you have already said. Seems to me OBEs occur in your mind just like dreams do. Sure we can have OBEs that feel like it's something more than a lucid dream and for some people that is enough to believe that an OBE is literally an example of consciousness existing outside of the body.

How you explain the OBE will depend on how you interpret it. So if you want to know more about how to explain OBEs you will need to ask yourself lots of questions that will allow you to look at how you think and how your thoughts and feelings inform your beliefs. Are your own and others personal experience or testimony enough to convince you? How do you value experience as evidence to whatever claims about OBE you are thinking about?

Good points, I agree.

Regarding seeing OBEs as a type of dream experience, this may be true, although it may also be true that dreams are actually a type of OBE.

[Sinera]

Good points, I agree.

Regarding seeing OBEs as a type of dream experience, this may be true, although it may also be true that dreams are actually a type of OBE.
that's my take on it, all you experience is "REAL", be it what we call a dream (lucid or not) or this 'waking' state, because the mind's "EXPERIENCE" is real, always, there's never any 'un_real' experience
;)

[GRANT]

If you did not consciously exit your body; then your lucid. There is no question when you have a conscious exit.
Grant

[outofbodydude]

If you did not consciously exit your body; then your lucid. There is no question when you have a conscious exit.
Grant

Lucid simply means clear perception. There are enough similarities between OBEs and lucid dreams to warrant raising the question. Whether one is open and honest enough to explore the answer without bias or preconceived beliefs interfering is another story.