Dying in Dreams

[Ziltron]

This isn't so much a lucid dreaming question as a general one:

It's part of common folklore that if you have a falling dream, you always wake up before you hit the ground and die. Well, I recently had a dream where myself and some friends were free falling in an elevator shaft and I didn't wake up. In fact, it turned out that there were long spikes at the bottom of the elevator shaft that tore our bodies to shreds. I can still remember the feel of being impaled in a dozen places. Not pleasant.

So is the whole not-dying-in-dreams thing bunk? Also, can you die in a lucid dream, and if so are there any consequences?

Thanks,

Zil.

[Chris]

I've died in dreams many times and have woken-up to tell the tale. Some of the deaths still bring about sympathy pains when I think about them (such as one death being blasted in the hip from close range with a shotgun, thinking about it makes me wince a bit). An interesting dream I had years ago regarding dying and then being given the choice to be brought back to life. If I chose this, I became another character from the same dream. After a while I chose to die, and I found myself paralysed and looking at a beautiful mountain scene, it was dawn, so blue hued with a crystal clear lake reflecting everything. This scene remained until I forced myself to wake up.

[linksshadow]

I once had a dream where I died. I was standing on a balcony of a house when I was stabbed from behind at the base of my neck. Later after discussing the dream with Violetsky she pointed out that perhaps the stabbing at the base of my neck was symbolising a negligence of my physical body. The more I thought about it the more accurate that sounded as I had recently, within the last month, given up swimming which was my *only* physical activity I partaked in for many years. I had put on close to 12 pounds in that month and was eating very poorly.

So perhaps the forms of death we endure in our dreams are a way of telling us what parts of ourselves are "dying" or being left behind.

-Dan

[violetsky]

Dear Ziltron,

Dying in a lucid dream can represent the death of a particular aspect of yourself. This can be a good thing if it represents getting rid of a negative aspect to our personality. If you received multiple impalements it could represent getting rid of a very pervasive part of your personality. Have you been going through large life changes? Alternatively the sword is also a symbol of the spirit, power, and authority. Have you recently undergone radical changes in spiritual belief system or authorities in your life? Dreams are often difficult for others to interpret. It is easier for us to interpret our own dreams. The subtle (our not so subtle) feelings and details of the imagery make it easier to properly interpret.

Hugs and Best Wishes,
violetsky

[Ziltron]

Interesting thoughts on interpretation. I have felt more detached from my friends lately, and that may explain why they all died with me. In fact, one of them yelled at me for being a jerk right before we hit the spikes.

As for life changes, it was the first night I tried writing down my dream experiences. Add to that the energy work I've been doing (something completely new for a person from a Presbyterian background) and an upcoming year-long trip to a foreign country and you've got a lot of life changes ^_^

Thanks for the nudges in the right direction,

Zil

[astralspinner]

I once had a dream where I started out dead and was busily exploring the afterlife. Does that count? :)

[Ziltron]

In principle, sure ^_^

[oath]

i used to purposely kill myself in dreams when i was a child. somewhere around 5 years old. i did this when i couldnt simply will myself awake to go watch cartoons. i have never felt pain in any of my dreams but have woken up with bruises scratches sometimes even bleeding from dreams. and i am pretty much fearless and invincible always.

[Chris]

A question to ask yourself: If not waking before one hit the ground did cause physical death, how do we actually know this? :) (ie all who hit the ground would be dead.)

It's a myth. I have died many times in dreams and have always lived to tell the tale :)

[enoch]

I've never died in a dream but this topic stirred a past curiosity. I once dreamt of seeing somebody die. I was 12-ish and I'd never actually seen someone die in real life until I saw my grandad die a few years on. The experience of watching my grandad die (the physical process) matched that of my dream. Not to say that I had a premonition of my grandads death but more that I dreamt of how death would look, feel and sound before experiencing it in reality. I think that says alot about dreams!

[Celeborn]

I have died twice during dreams, and both were very very vivid and grisly.

In the first it was late at night, and I had pulled over my car in a parking lot, so that I could call my girlfriend on my cell phone. I was dialing the number when I noticed out my rear view mirror, a couple of people in a van making a drug exchange. When I switched back into drive to get the hell out of there, one of them pulled out an automatic weapon and shot at my car. The bullets tore through both my car and my body. I felt every one pass through me, and I awoke with my body dancing to the rhythm of lead, so to speak.

The second time occurred the night after I had removed a Neg from a friend during an intense reiki treatment. Twice during the night I awoke to the same dream: I am standing by a turnpike with a few friends and loved ones watching as cars crash and pile up on the highway in a terrible accident. Then a fuel tanker hits the pile up, spins, and explodes, throwing flames and a huge concussion wave into our group. I dropped down and covered a nearby friend with my body as the wave hits, tearing the skin off my back and burning me alive. I awoke screaming both times.

The second case was clearly an attempt by the Neg of creating a core image. In the following days I had a very skilled friend of mine help to remove the entity after using water crossing and the like.
Both cases though were unusually vivid, and upon waking I could still feel "pain" from having been killed. Or perhaps energy at the point is more accurate.
Can anyone else back this up?
If so, it might mean that in order for a dreamer to actually be violantly killed the dream must be supernormally vivid/energized. Or maybe if I reach a little, all such dreams might possibly be Neg related.
Thoughts?

[BudOnly]

i once went to sleep with the thoughts of suicide and i had a dream where me a dog and a cat hiked through the woods and to the top of a cliff.....the dog and cat could talk......any way i said if im going to go.....were all going to go.....the cat jumped and splattered on the bottem in a wierd pattern without blood....then the dog jumped and before he hit the bottem i jumped ...it felt like 15 minutes before we hit the bottem.....when i hit the bottem i felt 5 seconds or so of all my bones snapping and crushing and my inside dropping and pushing out my sides and my arms and legs went in different directions .....still turns my stomach i woke up short of breath with a loud audiable thud

[Quantitativefool]

I've never managed to die in my dreams...maybe just a reflex, but even in lucid dreams I'm pulled out of the dream beforehand, or bounce off the ground and such...I've always wondered what the experience itself feels like..oh well...
-Stu

[Planet_Jeroen]

Anything between scary as hell, or wondering exitement I'd guess, depending on your take on it.


Jeroen

Long, long ago, I had a dream -- I don't think it was particularly lucid -- in which there seemed to be two of me. One of me fell and hit the ground. The other me reached out and caught my body bouncing off the ground.

Then both of us died. I remember feeling life fading out -- quickly -- but not all at once. I don't think it was painful.

I have, of course, felt pain in dreams, at times.

[Manix]

Had a most unusual dream last night that wasn't lucid, but disturbing anyway.

I was standing on the front porch of a house that was supposed to be my own, with my family standing nearby. We were watching a storm approach in the distance. On the horizon we see a very bright flash of light. My first thought was of lightning, but the flash instantly got brighter and continued till it was too bright to look at. My focus was just as quickly drawn away from the light to the wave of fire rushing towards us. We stood there staring in disbelief, wondering what it was. I said the first thing that popped into my mind, "I think we've just been nuked!" We didn't have the opportunity to contemplate the statment however. The fire storm overtook us, and we were incinerated. Which wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. For half a second, I felt like tiny redhot needles were pricking me all over, then nothing. I was simply drifting. I was aware of being beside my family one second, and drifting alone in muffled silence the next. It was as quick as that. Before I had time to fully register that I was dead, I woke up.

The dream did not end there. I only thought I woke up. I woke up in the dark bedroom of the house from the dream. I leapted out of bed and found my way outside where my family stood before, watching the storm on horizon. I then proceded to tell my mother of the dream I had, all the while never realizing, I was still dreaming.

Incineration is a first for me. I've died in many different fashions, but this one was one special. Never before have I been nuked.

[floatingadam]

I've died quite a few times in dreams.

I've been shot, stabbed, and smashed into the ground. I feel the pain, and even after I wake up I can still feel the buzzing.

I remember one time I was sleeping on a recliner and hit the stage where I was about to ready to have an OBE if I wanted to. All of a sudden, I thought I would like to know what it was like to be falling to your death, and it happend! It was the scariest feeling I have ever had!

Somehow I convinced myself to think it was real, because I'm always falling in dreams or while astral projecting and that never phases me.

I actually felt like I was going to die in a few seconds once I hit the ground. I started to think about how unfair my death was and my whole life kind of flashes before my eyes, it was a terrible feeling. It's hard to explain exactly what it was like. I honestly think I know what it's like to be falling and know that you are going to die when you hit the ground.

Those 3 or 4 seconds were completely unique to anything I have ever felt before. I've done the same thing at least once or twice since then, but I don't remember doing it on purpose.

Has anybody experienced that?

[CFTraveler]

When I was around 16, I had a very vivid dream, in which I jumped off a building. It was very realistic, and the moments from when I jumped to when I hit the ground (no pain, but I felt impact.) I had thoughts of the life of the person who was jumping. What really affected me was the severe emotional pain this person was in was so overwhelming, that when I woke up I was still in pain, only upon waking I couldn't remember what the reason was for "my" jumping. I always thought that it really wasn't me, they weren't my memories, that when I was sleeping I "zoned in" on someone who was in that situation. Now, as an older person, I wonder if that was some psychological thing I was going through, manifesting that way. By the way, a few days later, a lady jumped off the building where my dad worked. I've often wondered if that was related- even though it didn't happen at the same time.
Any opinions?

[floatingadam]

Soph, I wasn't trying to kill myself in the dream. I just wanted to know what it would feel like to know that I was dying. It was terrifying. I was wondering if anybody had ever actually felt like that, knowing it was a dream but still feeling like they were really going to die.

CF, that's pretty strange. I've never experienced anything like that. Anything else like that ever happened to you? Premonitions in dreams?

[Celeborn]

I find it fascinating that most of us who have died in dreams have experienced fear and pain in the dream, followed by some kind of energetic pain or sensation that continues upon waking.
I think that this is very significant.

Do dreams in which we are actually able to die require some kind of energetic threashold to be broken (as is speculated for lucid dreams and how we trigger them), or does the act of dreaming through to the bitter end (and not waking up beforehand) generate the increadible energy in and of itself?

Or can we take the paraniod route, and suspect outside involvement in the case of this type of dream?

[Ziltron]

Pain is definitely memorable. The only other dream sensation I've had that continued into the waking was from a very pleasant childhood dream involving a kiss under a weeping willow. One of the branches got caught between myself and the female involved, and when I woke up, I could still feel where it had been pressed...

[Ziltron]

Ah...the frightening details.

Well that one was definitely pleasure ^_^ So residual 'energetic sensations' don't just come from dreams involving pain or death. Maybe we experience many of these 'energetic sensations' while dreaming, but don't realize it because they're not all that memorable/we don't wake up directly after them?

[gavi dvan]

Wow, didn't know so many living people had died.

I once died in a dream, I think... It was a big long epic dream which slowly ended with the end of the world, which for some stupid reason was caused by two massive asteroids or something colliding with each other in the sky, and therefore causing everyone to choke to death from lack of oxygen. Yeah, very scientifically accurate. But I'll never forget that one, I vividly felt the choking, running out of air, and everything fading away, but then the fading away became the dream fading away instead.
Apart from that unfortunate side-effect, it was one of the most amazing-looking dreams I've ever seen, these asteroid planet things, covering up the entire sky, man George Lucas ain't got nothing on me.

[floatingadam]

I've had some long epic dreams like that, they are amazing! It's always too hard to turn it into a book though...

[Beekeeper]

I've died a few times. Once I was shot to pieces, another time my family and I were on a train heading towards ground zero and watching the mushroom cloud of an atomic bomb, another time we were camping and a tidal wave washed over us. I didn't feel any sensations of pain or even distress, just acceptance.

On the other hand, I've had dreams where people I love are dying or have died and I've woken up distraught.

Death is a common symbol in my dreams. Once I dreamt about a friend being murdered by having his shirt and jacket being pulled up over his face. Our friendship pretty much ended the next day.

Another time a "thug" version of my husband pushed a younger version of me out in front of the car I was in with a normal version of my husband (confused?) Then the "evil" version shot the in-car version in the forehead, killing him instantly. This symbolised the beginning of a significant challenge in our marriage.

Recently I was walking towards a funeral with the head teacher from my work. The next day he announced his resignation.

September 11 was particularly interesting too but this post is long enough....

[Beekeeper]

I just had to be intertextual:

And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which I'm dying
Are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you
'Cos I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
It's a very, very

Mad world, mad world

(Gary Jules)

[floatingadam]

Hey, that's a good song! I first heard it when Donnie Darko came out.

[Astralonaut]

I remember only one dream in which I died. I was shot in the heart. It was very vivid and realistic, I mean, no one can know how it actually feels, but after awakening I thought, this is how it really must be to be killed that way. I felt the bullet hitting my chest, only a very light pain, and then I felt how my heart stopped and all physical strength leaving me within seconds - afterwards I was walking around as a ghost, one of my best dream OBEs :)

I've had a lot of dreams in which I was in danger of dying, but usually I wake up before it actually happens. If I find myself in such a situation, I often become lucid (hey, this *can't* be real, this *must* be a dream), but I don't make good use of lucidity then, because I'm so frightened of the dream that I only want to wake up ... the dreams are often about myself being executed, but some nights ago I was in an elevator (yes, again, my good old elevator :-)) falling freely and about to crash down. Again - this must be a dream, I'm dreaming, wake up, wake up, WAKE UP ... and out.

[r0bb]

Dying in a lucid dream can represent the death of a particular aspect of yourself.


I think this is not correct most of the times, at least not for me.

I've had lots of 'dying' dreams and, funny, but most of the times they
don't make me feel bad. I guess sometimes it's because it really symbolizes
the death of an ego for example, but the circumstances often point to
even an opposite direction. Here's an example::

I was a part of kinda SWAT-like team. Other team members were some of
my closest friends then. We were covering behind a street corner,
waiting for the right moment to strike the enemies who were behind the
corner. I guess I was kinda leader of the team because I had to give my
buddies a signal. When this happened I jumped on the street, aiming my
weapon at an enemy. The enemy was standing on the top of a
baroque-style fountain so it shouldn't be hard to shoot him but there were
about 10 more bad guys who immediately started to shoot me. At this
moment I felt that I'm alone against these people but it was too late - my
body was already full of bullets and while falling I turned to the direction
where my friends used to cover. I guess they were supposed to come out
with me and help/cover me but this just didn't happen. When I last looked
at them, a few moments before I die their expressions were something
like 'Sorry, pal. Did you really expect us to risk our lives for you?'.


I think that dreaming your death is not a negative experience at all.
I accept it as kinda alarm - a reminder of feelings/experiences which you
systematically underestimate or pass by. I think such dreams occur when
you really don't realize this.

[KireiYume]

I don't think I've ever died in a dream, not that I can remember. Most of my dreams though seem to have a recurring theme of someone or something trying to hurt me physically in order to either get something for themselves, or just for the hell of it.

[CFTraveler]

Dying in a lucid dream can represent the death of a particular aspect of yourself.


I think this is not correct most of the times, at least not for me.

I've had lots of 'dying' dreams and, funny, but most of the times they
don't make me feel bad. I guess sometimes it's because it really symbolizes
the death of an ego for example, but the circumstances often point to
even an opposite direction. Here's an example::

I was a part of kinda SWAT-like team. Other team members were some of
my closest friends then. We were covering behind a street corner,
waiting for the right moment to strike the enemies who were behind the
corner. I guess I was kinda leader of the team because I had to give my
buddies a signal. When this happened I jumped on the street, aiming my
weapon at an enemy. The enemy was standing on the top of a
baroque-style fountain so it shouldn't be hard to shoot him but there were
about 10 more bad guys who immediately started to shoot me. At this
moment I felt that I'm alone against these people but it was too late - my
body was already full of bullets and while falling I turned to the direction
where my friends used to cover. I guess they were supposed to come out
with me and help/cover me but this just didn't happen. When I last looked
at them, a few moments before I die their expressions were something
like 'Sorry, pal. Did you really expect us to risk our lives for you?'.

I think that dreaming your death is not a negative experience at all.
I accept it as kinda alarm - a reminder of feelings/experiences which you
systematically underestimate or pass by. I think such dreams occur when
you really don't realize this. Losing an aspect of yourself is not a negative experience- it is a symbol of growth. When you become a child, you lose the baby you once were, and so on. So to dream of dying is not necessarily a bad thing- it just means that there is some particular aspect of your life that you're finally ready to give up and grow. So it's not a bad thing, it's a good thing, especially if what you're giving up is a bad habit or counterproductive mindset. For example, this dream could have symbolized the realization that you have to take care of yourself, that the child you used to be that depended on others (parents, peers) is no longer useful, that you have to be self sufficient. Of course, this is an illustration- I don't really know enough about you to know this is really what it's about.

[r0bb]

I guess I just couldn't express myself clearly.
I absolutely agree with this point.
Just wanted to underline that this kind of dreams
are not bad/negative experiences.

[cainam_nazier]

Let's see to date while dreaming I have died because of being shot, stabbed, impaled, blown out into space, fallen, tripped (that was funny one actually), crushed, animal attack, zombie attack, various other "it should have been dead" things attacking, hung, drowned, run through, blown up, head cut off, run over, trampled, and burned at the stake once, which really sucks.

I find the whole process interesting at times. Every single time I have felt the pain of the experience. Some of these I have been lucid and others not. It doesn't seem to matter. The pain is the same. Some times I will wake up with redness in the affected area from the dream. Some times the pain lingers for a while after waking some times it doesn't. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to this for me.

I have at times wondered a lot about this, mostly because I deal with it a lot. Possible meanings of the specific dream, the act of dying itself, ect, ect. It's possibel for some people that it is a symbolism of drastic changes in thier life. But that explination dosen't work for. Sine I have had a great many of them and things often don't change. I also have give some thought to the whole past life memories. And while that will work for some, it won't work for all of them. Unless the human race has already been through a space age and this is our second run on this planet as a species. For people who don't have them all the time one could probably say that this type of dreams means what was mentioned in one of the earlier posts about change. But for those who have them all the time I would just have to say that it's just how we dream. Lucky us huh.

I still don't have any good explinations for some of the dreams I have had. I just kind of except them now. And some times I get kinda bumbed because I wanted to do other things in the dream before I died. And I don't always die and I am therefore forced to deal with the pain through the rest of the dream. One time I got shot several times in the stomach and didn't die. In the dream I walked around for three days holding all my parts in because the hospital "couldn't do anything for me". That was one of those dreams where I didn't want to do anything else except die so the dream would end.

For me also I don't always wake up right after these dreams. Some times I will continue on to another dream with a totally different topic. I would have to say though that more often than not it is the last dream I will have that night. The pain usually wakes me up, even if for only a minute.

[Freawaru]

Cainam,

IMO, recurring dreams need to be treated a bit differently than "normal" dreams. I have some recurring dreams, too.

There is a technique that can be used (and I have used it with some more or less satisfying results): you directly ask your subconscious a question regarding those recurring dreams.The subconscious will try to answer it in another dream.

In my case I was curious about recurring dreams about secret doors, hidden paths and treasures. In those dreams I usually need or want to find them. In most of them I remember that I had hidden or build them myself, but I completely forgot and cannot recall the door-code or entrance or place.

To find out more about those recurring dreams I adressed my subconscious like a friend before going to sleep. You know, some nice words, some attention, some directed feelings as if it was someone else inside you. I had assumed that these dreams try to remind me that I have hidden something important from my wake cosciousness - so I supposed that whatever it is my subconscious would not tell me WHAT it was. I mean, I must have had a reason to hide it, right?

So I recalled some of these dreams and asked my "dream operator" to give me a dream that tells me WHY I hid it. (I asked this three times before going to sleep.) The vivid dream I had that night gave me an answer: If I interprete it correctly I had hid something that another aspect of myself can use to save myself from a certain danger. I am no wiser as to what danger or what it is or what is going on but at least I have some answer - and there have been much less secret-door dreams since then.

As you do not mind the dying in dreams except for the pain I suggest asking why there is so much pain in them or what you can change so there will be less pain or something along that line.

Oh, and another point. For this technique to work you need to REALLY want to know the answer. Any side-thought like "it is not that important" will prevent an answer - at least in my experience.

Hope this helps.

[Beekeeper]

Worse than dying (which, as stated earlier hasn't actually been all that bad for me in dreams) was waking up in a coffin in my dream.

I'd been taken hostage, so was gagged and bound (yeah, yeah psychoanalyse that) and it was totally black.

Probably sleep paralysis but I didn't know about things like that at the time.

Everybody has some really good insight on what dying dreams can mean, and who knows where the truth lies. It's probably different for each person. When I got to that part of my studies in psychology, I think I slept through it. Boring professors. For some reason, I've never been interested in interpreting my dreams. The dreams suck, so I don't really care to spend time going over them.

So, even though I'm a dimwit when it comes to dream interpretation, I was wondering if anyone had ever considered the following. The dying dreams could be past life recall of actual dying events. Now, since they are dreams, they probably don't have the logic and order that real life has. But, they could be past lives filtered through the consciousness. I specialize in past life therapy, and some people have realized that things that happen in dreams that don't make any sense are related to another existence they've had.

[cainam_nazier]

Freawaru

Oddly enough most of the dreams that involve me dying are centered around it. I don't think that it was the majopr point of the dream. Some of them yes I could say that, but for the most part no. So yes it seems to be a reacurring instance in my dreams but not the theme of the dream, if you know what I mean.

[Freawaru]

So, even though I'm a dimwit when it comes to dream interpretation, I was wondering if anyone had ever considered the following. The dying dreams could be past life recall of actual dying events. Now, since they are dreams, they probably don't have the logic and order that real life has. But, they could be past lives filtered through the consciousness.

What a mess! LOL.

To sum it up. We have to consider:

- general symbolism

- personal symbolism (including cultural symbolism)

- memories from past lives infiltration

- precognitive real events

- information of astral doubles gained via the silver cord

- ???

[Astralonaut]

Last night I had a powerful dream in which I died (but not lucid):

In the dream I was a woman (I'm male) living in a noble, aristocratic environment in some kind of castle. I vaguely remember some scenes like a dinner with some noble people, waiting for a man (a prince?) to visit me, etc., but in the part I remember best I was dying. I was somehow driving a car and crashing into a lake. I don't know if it was an accident or suicide, but I knew beforehand what would happen, that I was to die by suffocating on a lung injury from the impact. And so it happened. I crashed on the water in my car, then I was lying on my back and I knew I was severely injured, but I felt no pain - and then I had difficulty breathing and I knew this was it. I ran out of air, and only now did I experience fear - not of death, but of the agony of suffocating. I prayed to God to take me out of here quickly. Then I woke up. Even in the awake state I physically felt the pressure on my chest, it seems that I had begun to breathe very flatly during the dream.

The more I think about it, the more I think that it was a past life memory ...

Last night I had a powerful dream in which I died (but not lucid):

In the dream I was a woman (I'm male) living in a noble, aristocratic environment in some kind of castle. I vaguely remember some scenes like a dinner with some noble people, waiting for a man (a prince?) to visit me, etc., but in the part I remember best I was dying. I was somehow driving a car and crashing into a lake. I don't know if it was an accident or suicide, but I knew beforehand what would happen, that I was to die by suffocating on a lung injury from the impact. And so it happened. I crashed on the water in my car, then I was lying on my back and I knew I was severely injured, but I felt no pain - and then I had difficulty breathing and I knew this was it. I ran out of air, and only now did I experience fear - not of death, but of the agony of suffocating. I prayed to God to take me out of here quickly. Then I woke up. Even in the awake state I physically felt the pressure on my chest, it seems that I had begun to breathe very flatly during the dream.

The more I think about it, the more I think that it was a past life memory ...
I came close to dying in a dream last night. Does that count? In Horseshoes it counts when you get close enough...

I was running home when I came to a place where a tree had grown over the sidewalk. I started climbing over it. Just then I noticed a snake a few inches away. I pressed my hand against its head hoping to crush it. But I could feel it squirming and knew my time was short.

And so I woke up...

[terra incognita]

I think there are a great many people who begin their inner journey by "dying" in dreams. I think this process is an initiation to those who can push past the fear (this initiation, in my case at least, is not a one time event) and conceive of a greater reality beyond the one we live in.

Fear tends to put the brakes on further development for people who are not truly interested in peircing the veils which cover us while we sleep. For some reason or another, we (humanity in general) have decided to 'black out' during sleep. Why? I don't know. But the spiritual facts continue to make themselves evident after we embrace our fears boldly.

Embracing death, to me, was the result of frustration. I'm tired of running away from the dark colossus in my dreams. I'm tired of fighting, arguing and reliving old traumas. I'm ready for something new. I would very much like to loosen the surly grip of fear which has riveted my soul so intensely to my fleshly frame. I would like to let the soothing waves of no-thought ebb through my temporal being.

For once in my life, I will not make a knee-jerk response to defend my pathetic ego. Nobody cares anyway and it makes me look petty and small. My thoughts are like pebbles which accumulate, though individually inconsequential, to burden the lightness of my being. And in my lightness, as in the sound of beautiful music, I can find forgiveness for those who have even mortally offended me. For they most likely have not offended ME, the part which I choose to pursue.

It takes no effort to forgive as vengeance can find no foothold in something of a higher dimension. In my brighter moments revenge does not even register on my emotional scale. Loosening the talons of self-preservation means not holding to the things that are 'mine'. Including my body.

Where was my body before it was 'me'? I'm sure it will go back, after I die, to where it was summoned from bit by bit in the like manner it was taken. What will be left? Will my desires and attachments burden and deaden my energy body beyond my capacity for lift-off? Will my forgiveness in the face of unforgivable offence strengthen me? I assume that is what the journey is about.

I think the call of death is a shout to all of us to reestablish our priorities somewhat. Take into consideration that all material objects in our lives are essentially material manifestions of our inner world. And with those possessions comes the question of attachments. Good or bad they do exist. This harsh physical world does not let us off the hook with a whimsical thought like the dream world may. We build bigger things here than ourselves and in reverse those things manifest on 'the other side'..

Like a solitary man can build a home and then not have the ability to pick it up and move it after it is finished, we are stuck with what we build and where we build it. I think no matter what the situation may be the important thing is to keep it in perspective. Does it edify the soul? Does gaining more material possessions put me in the right direcion? Does a certain activity give me increased lucidity? Does the non-material pursuit of helping my fellow man act as another form of energy development?

Lucidity, through increased energy development, is the key to developing the conscious mind in the direction of the spirit. Lucidity lessens the semi-conscious panic that sets in during 'death' while we dream and increases our knowledge of a greater reality. Through lucidity we can peirce the veil of 'blackout'.

This simple and sublime knowledge helps those of us who understand the existence of a greater reality to be not so vulnerable to the shock and horror of this gritty yet beautiful world. And also fundamentally tells us to never give up because there [/i]is a reason for it all.

[TonyC]

Ok, everyone is talking of how they are always dieing in their dreams, except for a few ppl that I saw said they did not die but always had ppl try to kill them. I have never in any dream that i can ever recall being killed or anything of the like, ive been shot upwards of 7 times in one dream, and in others im always falling off things and out of things for the heck of it for instance like a slide at a water park that has been abandoned and drops about 50 feet off the ground, strangest thing is I never die I always survive albeit with a twisted ankle or sore side, i never break, bruise, or go down. In the dream im shot it is defending family after a atomic bomb has gone off there are very few survivors i am one with some friends and family members we get into a house and stay safe when a intruder wants to get our food I stand up and take around 6 or 7 bullets in the chest but in the process take him out with a shot to the head, Needless to say I blacked out in my dream a few times while time passed but I came to become stronger after this. Never have they drawn me to the ground as this one, This is the most dramatic besides the one of the monster that is always chasing me that hasnt chased me since 5 when i became untouchable so to speak. Any ideas on my worst dream when i get shot but dont die :?: :D :D :D

[Beekeeper]

Tony C,

I've read somewhere that getting shot in dreams (or shooting) can represent firing verbal shots (i.e insults, gossip). But I personally don't believe that a symbolic system can be universally applied. You pretty much need to work out what your own dreams mean. Sometimes, bits of dreams don't mean anything - just your brain processing stuff you've been exposed to in your day.

[terra incognita]

Dream interpretation. Beekeeper I think your approach is accurate. If we look at the process of interpretation within the mental theater in which our dreams play we find a very complex stage. The relevence of dream symbology is directly proportional to our ability to be humble enough to accept its message. In other words, to use psychological key words, the id runs enthusiastically into the room with wild ideas and concepts only to be patted gently on the head and told to go sit in the corner with a coloring book.

We are the gate keepers of our own truths. If our ego (an overly used word, sorry) is omnipresent in all of our dream interpretation, we will allow nothing through which reflects poorly upon who and what we are. We are our own spin doctors. In a similiar light we, being human, always tell "Our Side" of the story, predictably casting a better light upon ourselves. The trick in my opinion, is to be as objective as possible and let even hurtful messages through. We should meditate upon these messages. It is better to not tell others of these stern personal messages as we will, more than likely, change the content of the message and miss the point.

Here's an idea. Walk around your house and imagine you're in a dream. Imagine everything is symbolic. Think of every item as being made manifest to express an emotion or an experience or a memory. Now, if you're like the average person, a trip to the garage would show an extreme amount of clutter and the car may be blocked in due to this clutter. If we look at each item and remember why it brought us joy and reflect upon its use we must realize that without that item and its experiences, which is now useless, we might not be who we are today. But perhaps that item is now useless and just stopping our vehicle (translate energy body) from exiting our metaphorical garage (translate body). Once we assimilate and consciously digest these things (or physically get rid of the item in the garage) which exists inside of us, we may be more free to use our spiritual vehicles with little hindrance.

I think that the over arching goal of many of our possessions was the search for happiness. The search we were on as children seems now somewhat immature and pointless, fraught with bad judgement and impulsiveness but we must put it into perspective. In the same light a future "me" might perceive my present pursuits in the same way. That kind of thinking, I believe, is what leads us to a quickening of spiritual growth. If the consistancy can be applied across the line in relationship to physical items and dream imagery, the point behind all of these occurances would be to bring us "happiness". Whether these things are perceived as evil or tied to negative emotional vibrations, these things are there for a reason and we must assimilate them in their entirety to fulfill the meaning of this human experience.


**view your life as a metaphor**

Wow Terra - what you wrote resonates with me to some degree, good stuff to ponder. :)

Just sharing a dream experience here:

I had a dream of dying when I was a teen. Terrorists (this was back in the late 80's, before 9/11) infiltrated the home and as I was trying to call for help, one snuck up on me, reached around my head, grabbed my by the back of the neck and proceeded to empty the clip of his machine gun into me at point blank range. :shock: I remember that dizzy feeling of dying, becoming disconnected from the body.

That was the only dream where I really died. In other dreams, I have managed to either wake up or change the outcome by using superhuman abilities, lol. I would turn into supergirl and fly up out of danger or somehow find a weapon and beat the crap out of my attackers, lol.

[ranlinra13]

If the dream body is attached or woven deeply to the physical body, you can die in a dream. The dream would first need to be you not just watching the dream, but the participant and most likely to be you as your are today.

I had a dream where I was doing soul recovery work and I was stabbed with a sword. In the dream, blood poured from my chest. I grabbed my chest not being able to breath. In physical reality, my boyfriend awoke because I was physically gasping for air. He tried waking me and couldn't. He started reiki on me and I was able to come out of the dream. And I have been seriously hurt in dreams only to awaken to being hurt in physical.

Because of that and other times, I did journeys to Shamans and other Elders to learn more about the dream states and its effect on physical life. They reminded me that all is one.

There are also dark magic groups where an initiation is to go into someone's dream space and either have sex with them or hurt them and have physical confirmation from that person afterwords.

Most dying dreams are symbolic, or seeing parallel or past lives, are showing you where illness is in your dreams, or warnings to keep you healthy and alive physically.

If that was my dream, I would first think about the beams shredding my body and look at my auric layers and repair any torn meshing of those protective layers. I like the response about dying dreams meaning the ending of a part of your life and beginning of something new - and I believe a lot are just that.

To die in a dream sometimes creates a shift in consciousness. There are shamanic practices of dying and resurrecting from that death, like the phoenix. There are also shamanic practices of dimemberment and bringing the parts back to a whole body, a purified whole body.

I have found that a dream in not just one explanation or on only one level. I believe that all dreams are precognitive in some meaning, as well as symbolic for mental, emotional and physical awareness.

[LightMan]

In the most recent dreams that I can remember where I have died, I have experienced being gutted/ murdered by someone I know and did not get along with. I used to feel threatened by him and he was a lot bigger than me so I guess that's where the dream came from. I have also been killed by touching the lightbulb in my old bedroom. I recall the brief experience of blackness after each of these and woke up. I too have had the countless lemming experiences of diving off cliffs but have not died during one, yet.

There are others that I have had over the years too and one that stands out from my childhood is where I was mangled to pieces in an airlock on a future spacecraft. Having watched an old sci-fi movie recently I came across a scene where that had happened to one of the characters. That is what brought the memory of the dream back and the death is amazingly similar to what happened in my dream.

I too felt the pain of these deaths, the airlock one being the most intense from what I remember.

Someone mentioned about 9/11, I'll just say that in a dream shortly after that event I dreamed of being on the ground with papers flying around me and foggy dust everywhere - to me it appeared to be shortly after the collapse and everyone was running around. Although I did not die in that dream, I find it to be a relief that I didn't.

[Beekeeper]

Hey Lightman,

I mentioned 911. I awoke very early because I was plagued that night by "dreams" of ghosts all clamouring to tell me something. It was really, really disturbing. I was overcome by their sadness and it was more than I could endure or understand.

I got up about 5am and went upstairs to escape the dreaming but when I put the TV, there it was. I thought I'd had a false awakening: it was so surreal and it seemed a continuation of what I'd just experienced.

[LightMan]

Hey Lightman,

I mentioned 911. I awoke very early because I was plagued that night by "dreams" of ghosts all clamouring to tell me something. It was really, really disturbing. I was overcome by their sadness and it was more than I could endure or understand.

I got up about 5am and went upstairs to escape the dreaming but when I put the TV, there it was. I thought I'd had a false awakening: it was so surreal and it seemed a continuation of what I'd just experienced.

That would've freaked me out big time. Anything ghost related makes me shiver. It is interesting that you had those dreams at the time of 9/11.

One of my most scariest experiences I have had, through dreaming, is seeing an actual soul in my old bedroom when I was a child. It was in the general shape of a person but was mostly black and had these grey fibres crossing over the middle, like when someone rests their arms on their legs when they are sitting down. It also made this high pitched whistling sound very much like our old kettle used to make. I'll have to make a drawing of it sometime and post it.

As for dying in dreams I just remembered that I had a dream a few years ago where I drowned in the river Humber because of a tidal wave. My lungs felt like they were going to explode :shock: .

In the most recent dreams that I can remember where I have died, I have experienced being gutted/ murdered by someone I know and did not get along with. I used to feel threatened by him and he was a lot bigger than me so I guess that's where the dream came from. I have also been killed by touching the lightbulb in my old bedroom. I recall the brief experience of blackness after each of these and woke up. I too have had the countless lemming experiences of diving off cliffs but have not died during one, yet.

There are others that I have had over the years too and one that stands out from my childhood is where I was mangled to pieces in an airlock on a future spacecraft. Having watched an old sci-fi movie recently I came across a scene where that had happened to one of the characters. That is what brought the memory of the dream back and the death is amazingly similar to what happened in my dream.

I too felt the pain of these deaths, the airlock one being the most intense from what I remember.

Someone mentioned about 9/11, I'll just say that in a dream shortly after that event I dreamed of being on the ground with papers flying around me and foggy dust everywhere - to me it appeared to be shortly after the collapse and everyone was running around. Although I did not die in that dream, I find it to be a relief that I didn't.
Lemming experience? What's it like having four legs?

Hey Lightman,

I mentioned 911. I awoke very early because I was plagued that night by "dreams" of ghosts all clamouring to tell me something. It was really, really disturbing. I was overcome by their sadness and it was more than I could endure or understand.

I got up about 5am and went upstairs to escape the dreaming but when I put the TV, there it was. I thought I'd had a false awakening: it was so surreal and it seemed a continuation of what I'd just experienced.

That would've freaked me out big time. Anything ghost related makes me shiver. It is interesting that you had those dreams at the time of 9/11.

One of my most scariest experiences I have had, through dreaming, is seeing an actual soul in my old bedroom when I was a child. It was in the general shape of a person but was mostly black and had these grey fibres crossing over the middle, like when someone rests their arms on their legs when they are sitting down. It also made this high pitched whistling sound very much like our old kettle used to make. I'll have to make a drawing of it sometime and post it.

As for dying in dreams I just remembered that I had a dream a few years ago where I drowned in the river Humber because of a tidal wave. My lungs felt like they were going to explode :shock: .
Tide of Humber? Hmmm...

Thou by the Indian Ganges' side
Shouldst rubies find; I by the tide
Of Humber would complain.
That, of course, comes from To His Coy Mistress by Andrew Marvell...
http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/marvell/coy.htm

[Beekeeper]

Lightman,

Isn't funny how you pick stuff up in different ways? Different aspects.

Why 911, I wonder? There have been dozens of terrible disasters, like the tsunami in Bali, but I haven't picked up on these.

I've seen a lot of spirits, especially in my early twenties and, with a couple of exceptions, individuals rather than groups. Usually, I've felt fairly neutral but the 911 was heavy emotional stuff. It didn't freak me out; just overwhelmed me with sadness that clung. Did your experience of the soul freak you out?


I'll just say that in a dream shortly after that event I dreamed of being on the ground with papers flying around me and foggy dust everywhere - to me it appeared to be shortly after the collapse and everyone was running around. Although I did not die in that dream, I find it to be a relief that I didn't.

Was that a predictive dream (in that it had happened but you didn't know yet) or a reactive one? I find there's a feeling that comes with the predictive ones. How do I describe it: like heavy and slower? Nope, can't describe it. Maybe the negative emotion distorts things.

Ralinra13 said:

had a dream where I was doing soul recovery work and I was stabbed with a sword. In the dream, blood poured from my chest. I grabbed my chest not being able to breath. In physical reality, my boyfriend awoke because I was physically gasping for air. He tried waking me and couldn't.

Interesting that you should mention that. I've been thinking about that a bit lately because of one (horrible) dream in particular. I wonder if Lightman and I were supposed to help somehow with the 911 people?

Is 13 your lucky number? It is mine.

Sophroniscus you're ever a font of knowledge.

[LightMan]

Lemming experience? What's it like having four legs?

Ahh. . . I just threw that in there referring to the suicidal tendencies of lemmings - check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

Norway lemmings tend to leap of cliffs en mase, with so many of us having fallen off cliffs in dreams I thought it was appropriate :).

[LightMan]

Tide of Humber? Hmmm...

Thou by the Indian Ganges' side
Shouldst rubies find; I by the tide
Of Humber would complain.
That, of course, comes from To His Coy Mistress by Andrew Marvell...
http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/marvell/coy.htm

That's and interesting link.

When I click on your link my Firefox browser crashes, so I had to use IE instead.

[LightMan]

Lightman,

Did your experience of the soul freak you out?


Yes, very much so to the point of being terrified. I did forget about it for a long while, during my teens, but now that I have more time to think about stuff it came back. I will have to draw it and see what people think.



[quote:1pwjrqzl]I'll just say that in a dream shortly after that event I dreamed of being on the ground with papers flying around me and foggy dust everywhere - to me it appeared to be shortly after the collapse and everyone was running around. Although I did not die in that dream, I find it to be a relief that I didn't.

Was that a predictive dream (in that it had happened but you didn't know yet) or a reactive one? I find there's a feeling that comes with the predictive ones. How do I describe it: like heavy and slower? Nope, can't describe it. Maybe the negative emotion distorts things.[/quote:1pwjrqzl]

If I remember correctly I had the dream a few days later, but it would've been strange if I had it before.



Is 13 your lucky number? It is mine.


Nope, I think 5 would have to be mine. I tend to associate 7 with 1997, the worst year of my life so far. Strange how some see 6 as unlucky and yet 1996 was one of the best years of my life.

Lemming experience? What's it like having four legs?

Ahh. . . I just threw that in there referring to the suicidal tendencies of lemmings - check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

Norway lemmings tend to leap of cliffs en mase, with so many of us having fallen off cliffs in dreams I thought it was appropriate :).
Oh, well; everyone knows that. I don't think they really intend to die. They simply follow the leader, as it were, to their own loss.

That's and interesting link.

When I click on your link my Firefox browser crashes, so I had to use IE instead.
Interesting because you found the poem interesting... Or because that page crashed your browser?

I use Firefox and had no problem with it. Is your machine up-to-date?

As to the poem... It is all about the shortness of life and the joy of passion. The contrast between the Ganges and the Humber is significant. As I understand it, the Humber is a very short river. So Andrew Marvel imagines his life as being very short, like the Humber. Opposed to that is his coy mistress whose life is likened to the Ganges.

I am wondering if you were familiar with the poem, or did you come up with the Humber and the tidal wave independently? Does the Humber mean anything special to you? Are you troubled by the shortness of life? Do you feel that you are in the path of a tidal wave?

You need not answer, of course. But those are the sort of questions that your dream suggests to me...

[LightMan]

That's and interesting link.

When I click on your link my Firefox browser crashes, so I had to use IE instead.
Interesting because you found the poem interesting... Or because that page crashed your browser?



I guess both, but I was mainly reffering to the poem. Finding my local river in a poem like that was a suprise to me. As for Firefox crashing, I just wondered why it was doing that.



I use Firefox and had no problem with it. Is your machine up-to-date?


To my knowledge it is, current version is 1.5.0.6 - just checked for updates, looks like I have the latest. I wonder if any of my extensions could be causing it although I can't see how.



As to the poem... It is all about the shortness of life and the joy of passion. The contrast between the Ganges and the Humber is significant. As I understand it, the Humber is a very short river. So Andrew Marvel imagines his life as being very short, like the Humber. Opposed to that is his coy mistress whose life is likened to the Ganges.


Cool :).



I am wondering if you were familiar with the poem, or did you come up with the Humber and the tidal wave independently? Does the Humber mean anything special to you? Are you troubled by the shortness of life? Do you feel that you are in the path of a tidal wave?


I've never heard of the poem before. I've lived near the Humber most of my life, and I do drive along the side of it when travelling away from my local area from time to time so I get to see it often. The Humber Bridge is quite a sight to see btw because of its scale and I get to pass under that along the road at the side of the river.

Sometimes life seems short, but at 28 I still feel that I have a long, long way to go before its over. I really don't know what the significance of the tidal wave was although its suggested in a book I have that the tide signifies a clearing of debris from a persons life. I can relate to that, such as having pieces of the past put firmly behind me.
[/quote]

[ranlinra13]

Please forgive my basic method of responding - I am new to forums and don't know all the ins and outs of selecting quotes and other things.

I worked with a teacher, Robert Moss, around the 911 tragedy. We were meeting once a month in Ohio - but his core group from NY and Connecticut. I also had horrible dreams about 911, but not enough details to change the outcome. The night prior I couldn't sleep - I kept waking with horrible visions of bent frames of metal and body pieces and blood everywhere. 3:30am that morning, I took a bath to journey into these nightmares and saw two different kinds of planes crash into nearby buildings - still not enough to alert anyone.

I believe we sometimes receive these messages so that we could change something about the event, maybe not divert it altogether - but change a person, or something - to send healing ahead of time, to work through our fear, so that we don't add fear to the situation, to understand the feelings of those involved so that we could have more compassion and then yes, later to do soul recovery work. Robert Moss had numerous classes after 911 and worked with an government agent. Over 10,000 pre-recorded dreams of some part of 911 were recorded via email or letters or other methods. The ones that felt close to thier dreams did go back into them to see souls lost, not knowing how to get out, how to go into the light. There was also an imense darkness in that space, trying to feed off those poor souls.

I believe all dreams need our attention - to heal ourselves, to heal others and to heal the earth and the tragedies that she holds.

As for 13, yes I feel it is a number deeply tied within me and I find it lucky. I was born 13 days late from due date, was 7lbs 13 oz., last name had 13 letters, full name had 31 letters, born on the 13th and others.

Thank you - I really enjoy participating in this forum, but don't get to check all the time.[/quote]

[Beekeeper]

Thanks Ranlinra,

I've wondered about retrieval lately. I feel sometimes I've been shown stuff without realising I was supposed to help. (Actually, once I did help. A man in a hospital with a sick infant needed help with a baby and I took it away and changed its nappy for him. I know this doesn't sound like retrieval but it felt like it.)

13 is such a good omen for me too. Just about every raffle I've won (and I win a lot of little things) has been with the number. I don't have all your associations though.

You sound like you have a lot to offer the forum. I look forward to reading your posts when they appear.

[LightMan]

Thanks for your reply ranlinra13, I found your post interesting. It does sound like you had a premonition or some sort of pre-cognition experience. I do believe in such things since I have had one remembered premonition experience myself, but nothing relating to a major disaster, and it did come true although I did not recognise it at the time. I may have had others, but if I have had then I don't remember them at the present time.