Need some advice and help about my OBE's/AP's, and lack there of... :(

[Enigma]

Okay, so I just joined this forum, looking for advice. I guess I should start at the beginning (feel free to totally skip my AP experience part and go to the part where I'm asking for advice, lol... This may be long. Sorry, & thank you.)

OKAYYYY. So, I started out two months ago, first reading about Astral Projection while simply reading an article on something completely unrelated and seeing an advertisement about someone's new book on AP (not Robert's books, lol). Anyway, after reading articles about AP and deciding it sounded cool but INSANELY far-fetched (or just crazy dreams people were having based on what they read about the phenomenon), I decided, what the heck. I'll give it a go anyway, and if it's real, then I'll know... Right?

That very same night - the FIRST TIME I had ever tried - I had my first incredibly successful astral projection.

I went to sleep wearing headphones and playing binaural beats - a flat delta wave, 2.5hz. I fell asleep, had a silly dream, and then.... The dream abruptly ended and I woke up IN my body, but separate, and slowly floating upwards. I simply couldn't believe that it was actually happening - I felt immense joy and excitement about the experience. And I can remember most of it. I remember at first being frightened of my "dark" or gloomy surroundings and instantly being pulled back into my body. I remember it being as easy as breathing after that, as if I had been doing it all my life. I remember slowly putting my hand through a wall and feeling every particle as it went through. I remember trying to do several things but every time I got too excited or frightened, I would SHOOT back to my body and then start all over again. I remember being so confused that, while thinking about something, I was suddenly in a different place than I had just been in, not sure how exactly I had gotten there. The entire experience was incredibly exciting and eye-opening... I went farther than I thought I would, and did things I never even remotely thought possible. I'm sure you all remember the excitement - and/or, intense fear - that you felt when you had your first experience. When I tried to re-connect with my body, I layed down "in" my body and tried to take off my headphones to wake myself up (turning off the binaural beats), but when I tried, I pulled off FAKE headphones, and the real ones were still on my body. When I realized this, the faux headphones in my hands vanished, and I tried it again. Same thing. This went on for about five minutes until I had sufficiently scared myself (believing I was stuck) and then I felt an INTENSE magnetic pull in my head, and the "astral" reality's image faded into ACTUAL reality. My entire body was numb and vibrating, and I didn't think I was breathing, but I spent a moment thinking about what had just occurred... And wrote in down.

After my first experience, I was invigorated and so eager to try it again. I looked up every article, book, app and website I possibly could on astral projection and the techniques to achieving it again.

BUT MY PROBLEM IS THIS: I haven't been able to project again. I've tried every "technique" under the sun, tried every discernible method, tried at different times of the day, both awake and sleep-based (like my first experience), and NOTHING. Then I thought, maybe I'm trying TOO HARD... So I laxed on my approach and took a more "This is what I WANT - and if it happens, it happens. I will not force it." Stance on it. But still.... Nothing. I get close sometimes - I can get myself (from a waking state) to the vibrations, sleep paralysis, and sometimes to the point where I feel my body lifting from itself (sudden lightness and separation), but when that happens it always seems like my astral body is permanently STUCK in my physical body. Again, I've tried so many things, and nothing helps. I've been giving it my all for nearly two months now, almost every day (besides when I say, OKAY, IM NOT GOING TO TRY HARD SO IF IT HAPPENS THEN THATS GREAT BUT WHATEVER). Sometimes I can get "stuck" in the vibrational slightly separated stage for HOURS. I can't sleep, but can't separate either. I don't know why this happens.

Was this the universe's way of making its astral point? I was skeptical about it at the beginning, and because of that, I don't understand why it was so EASY the VERY FIRST TIME, but now I can't do it at all. It's like, "you've had your ONE eye-opening experience, and that's all you get. Haha!" THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING!

So, here I am, asking for advice. What do I do? How do I overcome this? Is it not working because of some crazy subconscious block I've developed? I just can't understand it. Ugh.

Thanks for for reading and trying to help. I honestly appreciate any attempt that's made in helping me.

Xo
Enigma

[susan]

Hi Enigma, I just wanted to acknowledge your post but don't have time tonight to reply fully but I'm sure within the next 24 hours you will have some invaluable links and advice from other members.
I just had to say that I believe we are encouraged from the other side to learn to astral project ,this is a huge step forwards , therefore I don't believe this was the astral making a point but maybe a sample , a teaser and now it's up to you to put on the work.
2 months is nothing, people can spend weeks, some months , some years just to experience what you did so well done for not getting frightened. My first Astral Projection was prior to knowing anything about this kind of thing. It was assisted and was necessary for me at the time as I was very stressed. Gave me a lift but also got the ball rolling.
All I have time tonight to say is PATIENCE, LEARN! PRACTICE. ( and don't let anything frighten you)

[Enigma]

Thank you, Susan, for your kindness. :)

I know how long it's taken others to do this, and just knowing that other people have tried for YEARS, even without having an experience like mine, is inspiring. I know I must be patient - but I'm getting frustrated nonetheless. I'm only human. :) hehe. And when I was frightened at first, it was only because of the ominous-looking wall that was across from my body... The experience itself never frightened me, which I think is odd but whatever :D heh....

As well I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't something in particular that I'm doing that is stalling my progress, having projected so easily the first time and all. If that is the case, then I could easily go on for years like this.... And that's not what I want. OR if there's something I could be doing to ease it along that I'm not doing.... I'll be glad to post my process while practicing if anyone wants to "assess" it or etc, lol!

Again, thank you! Xo

Enigma

[CFTraveler]

I think it's amazing that you can get into a vibrational state and then nothing else happens. With me it's the opposite, the 'vibrational' state usually doesn't happen and I have to pay attention to other symptoms, like 'seeing through the eyelids' or having vision screens.
What I'm not clear on is what you usually do when you're in this state to try to separate.

[Enigma]

Thank you, CFT :) It's just so frustrating because I KNOW how close I am at that stage but then I either get stuck for HOURS or it just doesn't progress any further. Bahhhh. But at least if I get stuck like that, I usually come out of it feeling like I just meditated for a couple hours. I usually feel happier or lighter, despite being so frustrated.

When you say what you're "not clear on", are you talking about/asking ME, in -my- situation, or are you just talking about yourself/in general? :) sorry lol!

[dontco]

Wait, I think I know what your problem is! I think it's DEMONS!!!
Haha just kidding, I read your other thread just now ;)
Seriously now, first of all- that's very cool that your first time went that well! I would say that's really rare.
My advice would be: the easiest way to go OOB is to have a lucid dream, then wake yourself up and use any technique you usually try to go out of body. My personal favorite is to just float out, it's very enjoyable, too. Even though lately, I usually just stand up.
You can easily achieve lucid dreams with reality checks and you can find more techniques online.
What else? Empty your bladder before you try to OBE... Relax your body, that's very important. And if you're afraid of it- it can really stop you from going out, psychologically. Robert suggests all kinds of exercises in his books, as I'm sure you've seen...
Best times for trying to go out are after you wake up in the morning/ after sleep, if you happen to wake up in the middle of the night, it's cool, too. Try not to move your body for a while and then try your technique when you feel your mind is awake and your body is asleep.
And also- If you try to go OOB from a lucid dream it's very important not to move your physical body and not to open your eyes :-)
I'll write down more advice if I'll remember :-)
good luck!
Dontco.

[Enigma]

>:0!!!! NO DEMONS.

Lolllll.... Aaaaaaanyway, thanks ;P I realize that not many people get as good of an experience as I did on the very first go.... Maybe not even for the first 20+ goes, even. Which is why I'm so confused as to why it's suddenly so difficult for me to repeat it. :C I dun gedditttttt....

Also, thanks for the techniques. I -have- tried it all, though. I find the time that is most successful for me (that is, the times I try when the vibrations come faster or etc), is early morning, like 2-6AM. I can't just go for an OBE from bed when I wake up in the middle of the night naturally, because I sleep next to the loudest snorer on the face of the earth :roll:,(he also moves a lot while sleeping... We both do, actually. I have a problem with sleep walking/night terrors and acting out my dreams.)... so I usually have to move myself to the basement couch in the morning or just sleep there for the entire night. After I move to the basement, I usually put on a light fan, put on binaural beats (they seem to help bring the vibrations faster too - but I only use them half the time. I don't want to become dependent on them.), lay on my back, and relax. I don't have a problem with keeping still after that.... Except for the crazy twitches/jerking and muscle wobbles I get (which I get while awake during the day too, but obviously worse when trying to sleep). These usually don't affect the sleep paralysis as long as they don't get too frequent or get big (aka more violent), because they're involuntary, but sometimes the big violent twitches make my heart flip and obviously ruin the moment. Despite this, I'm usually successful getting to the vibrational stage/lifting from body stage, because I've learned how to easily relax my body and keep my mind open at the same time... It just doesn't go any further. It's like I can feel my body start to separate but it either never fully separates or my consciousness refuses to move to my astral body, and I don't get astral vision either (yet). Another problem I seem to have is the laying position. I have spinal deformities and a degenerative disorder in my lower spine, which sometimes make finding a good position more difficult because I have to have my lower spine/pelvis a certain way or I wake up without feeling in one or both of my legs. I wish I could induce sleep paralysis from other positions besides laying on my back, but I cant. Sigh.


***EDIT: I forgot to add: I haven't had any luck with lucid dreaming, either :(. Again I've tried a lot of different things... Subliminal music, pre-set dream apps, affirmations, setting quiet alarms to semi-wake myself, etc. Nothing. Baaaaaaaahhhhh.

Enigma

[CFTraveler]

When you say what you're "not clear on", are you talking about/asking ME, in -my- situation, or are you just talking about yourself/in general?
No, I'm asking you what you do to separate your realtime or etheric body when you're in the state. I don't remember reading how you're trying to get out.

[Enigma]

No, I'm asking you what you do to separate your realtime or etheric body when you're in the state. I don't remember reading how you're trying to get out.

Well how about I just walk you through my entire "process" that I've developed this far... It's easier for me and that way I won't have to repeat it if anyone else asks ;) heehee.

Okay so FIRST, I start off by going to my basement couch at an appropriate time (usually if I wake up in the middle of the night or if I'm having an afternoon nap - both work fairly well for me), set up my binaural beats (usually a delta wave or something that goes from alpha/beta all the way to delta slowly - I only use BB's if I'm not tired) and my fan on low (I find it helps me breathe when I have no control over my breathing lol) and obviously I make it as dark as possible, turning off any electronics and putting my phone on airplane mode/do not disturb. Then I get as comfortable as I can laying on my back, usually surrounding myself with blankets to support my spine (I have spine issues) and etc. I usually attempt this while laying flat on my back, arms at sides, legs straight out - I've never made it to vibrations any other way. After getting comfortable, I simply close my eyes, breathe deeply, ignore any itches or etc, and watch the darkness behind my eyes until I feel the vibrations. It used to take me more visualizations and etc just to get the vibrations, but sleep paralysis and the vibrations come pretty easy now (usually takes between ten minutes and half an hour). After they start, I begin a combination of visualization techniques I got from a book, "feeling" the separation I felt when it occurred the first time I projected (remembering the feeling, I mean), and rocking my astral body once it starts to separate from the previous techniques.
The visualizations I use are these: a) I imagine my body glowing with white light and love, as well as imagining my body separating in front of me (like I saw the first time - I usually accompany that visual with the "feeling" of floating and the magnetic pull I remember); b) I imagine a tiny, white light in the centre of my head in between my ears (the "centre of consciousness") and slowly pull the light up and out of my head; c) I visualize a 3-dimensional object, like a cube, glowing with white light - beside it, a floating "ethereal" version of the cube, both connected with a thin, taught string. I then imagine the light from the cube moving out of it, through the string, and fully into the "astral" body of the object. This is one that works the best to initiate the "separation" feeling and sudden lightness; d) I imagine a "stargate" (have you ever seen the shows? Stargate sg1, Atlantis, or the movie(s)...? That's what I think about.)... And going through it. When I go through it, the wormhole is wild and flings me left, right, up and down, and at the end it's a bright white light that I'm pulled through into the new destination. This visualization worked really well at first but doesn't work as well now... Idk why.
After (and sometimes during) the visualizations, I remember the feeling of when I first projected and try to "rock" my astral body, usually side to side is easiest but sometimes I'm rocked from head to foot. I start off slow and get it going as fast as I can, trying to flip myself out with centrifical force (spelling is probably wrong). I never really get to that point through. I have tried visualizing a rope or a ladder and putting my astral hands on it to pull myself up, but nothing ever comes of that. I've tried many exit techniques, like the roll-out, but again, nothing comes of it. No matter how light or "loose" my astral body feels, it is always just STUCK to its physical counterpart and any time I actually try to move my astral body, my physical body grudgingly follows along with it. I just don't understand. While trying to move my astral body I'm also hearing strange sounds and seeing quite the light show, both of which I just go with. Sometimes, as the feeling of separation gets stronger, my vision "lightens" - by which I mean, the darkness behind my eyes suddenly lightens all at once, as if I'm starting to get astral vision but it never quite goes that far. Sometimes, as well, my heart rate increases to an uncomfortable level, but it's only happened a handful of times - I slow down if it happens.

So, that's my process. If I've forgotten anything I'll add it below with "EDIT" in front of it..... Let me know what your thoughts are on this.


**** EDIT: I knew I would have to edit this right away.... Lollllllzzz. I forgot to add that, at the apex of loosening my astral body, I repeatedly tell myself that I am GOING TO PROJECT. That I -CAN- separate. As well, I usually repeatedly ask my "spirit guides" or any other benevolent astral folk to HELP me be free of my physical body for a little while, or to help me astral project. I'm usually very CLEAR about what I want when I say these things to myself, although I've NEVER been "helped" by any beings (because I haven't projected again, obviously...). I'm beginning to think that I either don't HAVE any "spirit guides", or that I'm just not doing it right to be heard...... Or they don't want to help me. :(.... ****

[Enigma]

As well.... I know this might be reaching a bit far, but are any of you "advanced" enough to come pull me out of my shell? :D lol.... Just curious! I couldn't find anyone LOCAL to talk to about this.... People think you're nuts.

[CFTraveler]

No, I'll get you the link where I tried it before, so you can laugh at me....but may I recommend that instead of doing those beautiful visualizations, do something with your energy body? For example, during the day go outside (and if you have a trampoline, better) jump up and down as if you were on a trampoline, and do it with eyes closed for just a sec after doing it with eyes open. The idea is to memorize the feel of your physical body jumping up and down, and what you see when you do it.
Then, when you are in the right stage (and you've felt it before enough times to recognize it) recreate the feeling of jumping up and down in your memory. Don't think of yourself doing it, (don't see yourself doing it in your imagination) but do it in first person in your imagination, using your memory to recreate how it feels to jump up and down- and keep doing it until something happens.

[Enigma]

Lol! Alright, I look forward to it :)

I have tried that before with spinning and rocking back and forth (that's what I remember when "rocking" my astral body). One of the articles I read suggested this. I understand it's worked for a lot of people but I don't know why it's not good enough for my dumb astral body. Either I can't REMEMBER it well enough or I'm doing something wrong... But I'll try it with other movements. I wish I still had a trampoline.... :(

[CFTraveler]

It might have to do with the position you're in when you're practicing. I find that rocking works best when I'm reclined, rope or rollout works well when I'm lying down. FWTW.

[Enigma]

Okay. Thanks :)

[Enigma]

Just wanted to ask - do you guys find that energy work helps in general with initiating an OBE? I'm reading Robert's energy work e-book (or regular book? Not sure... I'm reading it on the Scribd app) thing and was hoping it could help with the "health" of my energy/astral body and then from there, help with projecting. Any thoughts on this? It's an interesting book nonetheless and I'm going to finish reading it and trying its techniques whether it helps with projections or not. :)

[WhiteMonkey]

Hey i followed your thread and i got a few ideas.

1 try to follow roberts map(master astralprojection) program
2 try to download the book the phase and try the instructions
3 it coukd be that u are projecting but yiur mindset staysinyour body instead of going to your astralbody ro ert calls it mind split search it qnd u will find a resoljtion fot it

Allthe best

[Enigma]

I would LOVE to try his MAP program but A) I'm a young, single parent/student and don't have the HUNDREDS of dollars it requires and B) even if I did (which I dont, and probably never will.) I don't even have access to a credit card to order it. Life sucks for me. :/ but thanks.... I'll check out the other one you mentioned. And I agree about the mind split thing. Gotta research that.

Oh and I forgot to mention.... I'm only able to access some of the books because I'm doing a free trial of the "Scribd" app that doesn't require a credit card... Whoopieeeeee lol. Besides that app (and the books contained within), I only have access to free or non-credit card requiring materials. :(

[CFTraveler]

Just wanted to ask - do you guys find that energy work helps in general with initiating an OBE? I'm reading Robert's energy work e-book (or regular book? Not sure... I'm reading it on the Scribd app) thing and was hoping it could help with the "health" of my energy/astral body and then from there, help with projecting. Any thoughts on this? It's an interesting book nonetheless and I'm going to finish reading it and trying its techniques whether it helps with projections or not. :) I find that it is helpful for me for an RTZ OBE, although it's not 'necessary' strictly. I find it helpful for many other things too.

ps. You can get the old version of MAP in your local library (the book style) for free- I live in a small town and my library has it. Also, if you go to the stickied threads in the MAP section of the forum you will find the original schedule of the program when it was being developed by Robert and Brian- the schedule coupled with the stickied threads in the OBE R & D threads can give you a rough idea of how it goes.
I imagine that you're talking about the CD MAP program when you talk of hundreds of dollars- When I bought it it wasn't 'that' much, but I got it the first year it was developed, and still love the original book version.
Unless you're talking about the Astral Projection Mastery course, Idk how much that one is.

[Enigma]

Yes I think it was the "Astral Projection Mastery" thing I was looking at, as I thought they were the same thing lol... And if it's in libraries then I should be able to get it online, but I can't find it (free anyway... I've found countless books that were in my library free online, but obviously it's not always the case.).... Nonetheless I'm gonna head up to my local library and see what they have.

Also I had a very successful practice this morning. I was hearing the strangest noises yet and started seeing this weird swirling tunnel-type thing... It was mesmerizing lol! Buuuuuuuut I FELL ASLEEP! I suppose I was TOO relaxed ;(.... Gonna try again later though! The energy work techniques seem to be helping immensely. :)


EDIT: OMG MY LIBRARY HAS THE MOST RIDICULOUS HOURS!!! I looked it up on their website just to be sure (cause I have to take a bus to get there, and the busses here run on 40-min cycles... Small town ;P) and it's ALREADY CLOSED TODAY. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO >:0.... I can't believe they close at NOON on Fridays... Kids aren't even out of school at that time, how are they supposed to get books for projects (assuming they don't have access to what they need on the interwebz...)....?!? Stupid thing. Guess I'll have to wait until Monday. :'(.....

[dontco]

Hey, just wanted to point out that if you want to download the book suggested above, just google "the phase by michael raduga" and you'll find it for free (and it's legal, too!) :-)
Plus if you wanna try lucid dreaming (totally up to you) I will point out a couple of suggestions:
1. Write a dream journal, immediately after waking up.
2. Do a lot of reality checks during the day. You can check your hands to see if they're distorted (they're supposed to look different in a LD). The text you read should look differently. Plus, you should look distorted in mirrors. A smart person around here (sorry, I can't remember who it was) said he/she uses an application that reminds to do a reality check every half an hour or something similiar.
You can do it! :-)
dontco.

[Enigma]

Hey, just wanted to point out that if you want to download the book suggested above, just google "the phase by michael raduga" and you'll find it for free (and it's legal, too!) :-)
Plus if you wanna try lucid dreaming (totally up to you) I will point out a couple of suggestions:
1. Write a dream journal, immediately after waking up.
2. Do a lot of reality checks during the day. You can check your hands to see if they're distorted (they're supposed to look different in a LD). The text you read should look differently. Plus, you should look distorted in mirrors. A smart person around here (sorry, I can't remember who it was) said he/she uses an application that reminds to do a reality check every half an hour or something similiar.
You can do it! :-)
dontco.


Thanks for the tips :) but I've already got a lucid dream setup going (I have multiple reminder apps, apps that play music and binaural beats at a certain time when you're asleep, subliminal messaging systems.... I've got it all!). When I said that I've tried "everything", I really meant it. ;) also yes thank you, I found the book but have yet to read it - I'm reading one by Robert about energy work at the moment, but thank you again.

[WhiteMonkey]

Hey,to mind-split:your physical body and your astral body have a different mind-set/storage. So you could project but your mind-set/storage stays with the one in the physical and not with the astral one. So you only can experience the physical and forget the astral one...

[CFTraveler]

You can forget it consciously, but it will get stored in your subconscious, where it can be accessed by either reaching deep trance or further dreaming. Ever been in a dream and remembered you've been there before, or met someone you knew before, only in your dreamspace?

[Enigma]

CFT - yes, I've done that quite a few times!! Like I'm having a dream and all of the sudden I realize that it's the same recurring dream I've been having for YEARS, or I see something and realize that the same thing has happened numerous times before in other -different- dreams. It's cool.

Sorry I stopped responding guys, I kinda went offline for a little while. I'm just posting today because I wanted to report some success that I've had with lucid dreaming and today even (this afternoon) I astral projected for a couple minutes, but something really weird happened. I'm gonna post a new topic on it in a minute. I had success this time I think because I tried it just as I was coming out of a dream... Like the dream stopped, I was awake (not moving though) and naturally my brain started going back to the same dream but I thought, NO, this is the perfect time to try projecting... So I visualized a dream I recently had about floating feet first up into the air (not actually astral projecting though, but a lucid dream about it) and within SECONDS I was out of my body!!! Anyway please check out my new topic after this cause I need some help figuring out what the heck happened. I'll still respond here though. Thanks for all the help, everyone!!!! Xo

[CFTraveler]

:thumbsup:

[Enigma]

;) yessss.... I believe I FINALLY figured out how to initiate out-of-body travel from dreams/just after one ended... Finally getting the hang of it. :mrgreen:;) :thumbsup: