Trouble with Lucid Dreaming (SO CLOSE I CAN TASTE IT!!)

[we-arethecure]

Hi, everyone! I'm Zach! This is my first post on this forum (and my first post on ANY forum in many many years), so bear with me if anything about my post isn't "forum friendly". I'm kinda new to this :)

Introductions aside! I seek help from all of you who are more experienced than I.

Last night, I meditated before bed as I usually do. I had been reading a lot on the focusing of chi energy, so I decided to base my meditation and sleep upon that. After meditation, I laid down to fall asleep. This is where things got very exciting. I began to focus on the center of my chi; right above my belly button. I imagined gathering chi from everything around me; I absorbed the heat from my blanket, I absorbed every itch I wanted to scratch. When I felt like sufficient energy had been built, I imagined the chi flowing like water, slowly, to every other inch in my body. I know this worked, because as I imagine the chi flowing to the bottom of my toes, electricity raced through my entire leg, etc. By the time I had push this energy to every crack and crevice of my being, I focused that energy into creating a second 'me', or the 'me' I would enter the dream state with. At the moment I began separating my energy from my body, I received the sensation of spinning- as if my entire bed had been a spinning top, spinning in whatever direction I pleased. This was an extremely satisfying feeling, and I had figured this was surely the moment where I would experience my first lucid dream. The spinning sensation lasted maybe ten minutes, and I continued to lay still for twenty minutes or so after it ended.

And as quickly as things got exciting for me, it all crumbled down even faster......

I had a bit of insight. A faint female's voice saying "you are dreaming". Ecstatic, because the voice was not my own, I tried pushing my energy out of my body. When this failed, I simply opened my eyes. What I found was not a dream, but my own room. Something was strange though. As I stared at my ceiling, I began to see silhouettes dancing clearly across my white ceiling. It was wonderful to behold, but nowhere near the experiences one witnesses with an OBE. I close my eyes again, only to find it impossible to fall asleep.. So I naturally switch positions (I did a reality check too, I really wasn't dreaming), just to fall asleep as usual, dream as usual, and wake up this morning to a feeling or sadness. A feeling that I was SO close, as if I had missed a single number on a lottery ticket.

TL; DR, I have no troubles setting up stage for a lucid dream every night, I just don't know how to initiate it.

What am I doing wrong? Could I be subconsciously focusing on the idea of lucid dreaming so much, that it keeps me from actually falling asleep? How do I start the dream once my body is asleep, and how will I know when to start the dream? What typical thoughts does a regular lucid dreamer have in the moments between laying down to sleep and lucid dreaming?

I want to discover untold truths about myself and the world around me through dreaming, but I can just never push myself into a dream. Help a fellow out? :lol:

[dontco]

Hey Zach, welcome to the forum :-) I wanted to ask you a little question- would you like to have an out of body experience or a lucid dream? Because a lucid dream happens when you realize you're awake while you're already dreaming, and an OBE you could have before or after you go to sleep, but it's easier to a lot of people after sleeping, because the body is well relaxed :) you need to use a different method to get to them, but you can get to an OBE from a lucid dream.

[we-arethecure]

I guess a lucid dream is what I really want to achieve. I'm sorry, I wasn't aware there was a difference between lucid dreams and OBEs! Looks like it's time for me to go do some more research, haha. But anyway, yes, any advice that can help me get to a lucid dream state would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the response!

[CFTraveler]

Hi Zach. The way I label it, is that an OBE (out of body experience) is just that-having the experience of going out of your body, which seems to me that it's what you did. What happens after that depends on your level of consciousness and perhaps the 'environment' you 'land' in- the real time zone (your room) or the astral- where dreams happen.
It seems you are doing what sounds like an OBE technique (forming an 'energy body' and pushing it out) it's a tech I would never use because it makes you a spectator more than a participant (although not always, as you just demonstrated). Of course, the usual WILD techniques I know about involve staying awake while the body goes to sleep, and letting yourself be absorbed into the dream sequence when it starts, keeping your lucidity.
Most of the lucid dreaming techs I know about involve doing reality checks and affirmations, so that one does them automatically in the dream environment, and realizing they're in a dream, although that doesn't always work.
It is an interesting technique you've brought us for sure, I'm not sure if my ramblings helped you at all.

[wstein]

The long description of techniques seem great for OBE which is apparently what you almost had.

Lucid dreaming does not require any undue meditation, energy (chi), spinning, or pushing 'out'. Most of learning to lucid dream is to setup triggers that will allow you to recognize you are dreaming. There are couple of fairly successful techniques to doing this though for most people it takes weeks of persistence to get it to work. The best methods are:
-make a list of things that only happen in dreams (not while awake or OBE), read it just before going to sleep. If any of them happen you will know its a dream. Keeping a dream journal can help in making this list.
-do reality checks as often as possible to see if you are awake or dreaming (much is written on this)

[we-arethecure]

Thank you both so much, you both helped strengthen my knowledge of both lucid dreaming and OBEs! I'm not much of a writer, so a dream journal is something I've put off for years (forgetfulness keeps me from constantly checking reality), but as I've read many times in the internet: dedication is absolutely required. That said, I've started a journal, and I'm slowly on my way to lucidity. The only technique I've tried this far is WILD, with no results, so I will continue updating my dream journal/reality checks/etc.

What do you guys think about setting an alarm for several hours after falling asleep, and then trying to achieve lucidity after you wake up and fall back asleep? I heard that most REM sleep occurs four hours after falling asleep, so I thought that maybe if I came to full consciousnesss after sleeping, and THEN tried to lucid dream, it would come a lot faster. Thoughts?

p.s. I had the spinning sensation again last night with much less effort. I want to go more in depth and ask more questions about this, but I want to avoid discussing the wrong topics on the wrong forum (OBEs in a dream forum).

[wstein]

What do you guys think about setting an alarm for several hours after falling asleep, I exclusively used "make a list of things that only happen in dreams" technique.

Setting an alarm will allow you to be more aware of dreaming and if you use a voice recorder will make dream journaling easier. It will also disrupt your sleep. I can't say for sure but doubt it will help much if at all.

One way to do reality checks is to use a short interval alarm (every 15-30 minutes) to get you in the habit. Personally I didn't find reality checks useful at all but some people have.

[CFTraveler]

Hi we-athercure.
I found the dream log kind of bothersome, so what I would do was write keywords (usually 3) about the dream, and later on I'd flesh it out. For me it was more doable than trying to write every morning, and it helps with recall-a lot.
I have found that for me, the reality checks work at first, but after a while they don't work anymore, perhaps due to some sort of paradigm shift (for me, I can't speak for others.)

[Tijopi11]

I'm late, but I'll reply anyway:

For me, I relied entirely on reality checks, as I found them much easier and quicker to do. It's simple: Every couple of hours, i'll remember to do a reality check. I simply confirm it's reality (as the differences between a dream and waking life are many and easily recognized) and then it's done. After a couple times, while doing it with enthusiasm, it'll become habit and you'll remember to do it. Don't worry about any schedule- even once or twice a day or even a couple times a week will help. I also kept a dream journal (though I didn't keep up with it very well) and an alarm to wake me up at 5:00 am (though this wasn't for lucid dreaming- it was for OBE's.) after a ton of persistence over about a month or so, I managed to do it. After the first one, I can now say I usually have at least one lucid dream a month (though making a lucid dream happen still takes persistence.) It's all about intention and believing. I had about three lucid dreams as a child, so I knew lucid dreams could happen. Honestly, had that not happened, I probably would have never had a lucid dream. Also intention, I find that simply thinking about a lucid dream one day will make it happen that night. They very rarely happen out of the blue for me, mostly it's about MAKING it happen. Good luck!

[SoulSail]

My experience with this has been most fruitful when I can WILD. It's tricky and perhaps you've already mastered it, but there's nothing like shooting through the black at full speed and then stand in another land without break.

I do this by simply holding awareness without thought--any thought. Once relaxed, and simply being, the body drops off and it's a go. It took me months to get it down because there's a tricky zone where the mind is blinking out one must simply go with with a little loving but firm mind in order to launch.

Soul