Your own Proof thats OBEs a real ?

[TimeTravel]

could anyone prove the obes are real ?
for example watching a friend and tell him what he has done to the time?
I would like to believe in it but often I doubt it.

[GMAN12]

You could, but it could be a perception problem. Why not tell your friend about the experience? It's the only way you can confirm what you say was real!

[TimeTravel]

Sry, you not unterstand me, i have no friend who can OBEs.
it was just an example

[Sinera]

Yes, I have quite a few now, including a so-called 'card validation'. Many others 'by accident'.

Here's also a collection with a lot of anecdotal evidence, mostly from forums, have fun reading:

http://da-lai.lima-city.de/OBE/index.html

:)

[TimeTravel]

Thanks, very interessing link, but i cant belive it ^^
i dont know why :(

[CFTraveler]

You can't prove anything to anyone else, just as you can't prove to anyone that you dream. The reason is the one you just said- if you can't believe it even if you actually have an OBE, go and see something that is actually happenning, come back and record it, go verify it actually happened, and know it was a genuine non-or extra-local happening, you will never be able to convince anyone else that your experience was valid in a physical way.
And before you tell me you can 'prove' dreaming, that is not so- you can prove the brain shifts frequencies when in the sleep state, and you can wake people up and ask them if they're dreaming- but no one can 'know' that what they're saying is true.
So no, there is no way to 'prove' anything that has to do with consciousness.
That's why in science, there is a distinction between 'hard' sciences and 'soft' sciences- anything to do with psychology is not considered science either.

[ButterflyWoman]

In addition to what CFTraveler wrote, basically, OBE and most or all "mystical" events are experiences. Subjective, personal, experiences. Yes, sometimes more than one person may share in an event, but each will have their own absolutely unique interpretation of it, and their own absolutely unique experience of it. You can't prove or disprove an experience. If I tell you I once broke the big toe on my left foot, do you believe me? Yes? Why? Because I could (presumably) produce some sort of medical record or x-ray or a note from my doctor? Or do you believe me because you have no reason not to believe me, and, really, what do you care if I ever did or did not break my big toe?

But more than that, the attitude and worldview from which a question like this comes is something to be examined. Is this thing you think of as "reality" really just facts and numbers and provable statistics and x-rays? Is it really "out there" somewhere? How does your own interpretation affect the situation? What about your beliefs, how might they affect your reality?

Just some food for thought. Or, rather, some cage rattling.

[Sinera]

Thanks, very interessing link, but i cant belive it ^^
i dont know why :(
The link is not for entire persuading - it was just for motivation. It "happens" or "works for" others, so it might work for you. Try it and you will "prove" it to yourself or at least gather strong evidence. :-)

[Lionheart]

could anyone prove the obes are real ?
for example watching a friend and tell him what he has done to the time?
I would like to believe in it but often I doubt it.
The only person that will ever truly convince you, is yourself. No matter what other people say, it can always be debunked by another.
Learn the skill, practice often, keep a good up to date Journal and in time you will be able to answer this question from your own point of view! :)

[Lionheart]

Do you know what they did to people like us when everybody believed? We were tortured, hanged, and burnt at the stake. Trust me, the LAST thing you want is for there to be "Proof." This age of skepticism and scientific reasoning is keeping us alive, honey.
That statement has more than truth than you think in it. There are already Countries in the World that are beginning to target "Esoteric" websites. The more people that believe and "see" as we do, the more we become a threat to those that wish to suppress this info.

[TimeTravel]

That statement has more than truth than you think in it. There are already Countries in the World that are beginning to target "Esoteric" websites. The more people that believe and "see" as we do, the more we become a threat to those that wish to suppress this info.

You mean he delete Esoteric website from the net ?

[Lionheart]

You mean he delete Esoteric website from the net ?
No, I mean they will censor/ban them in their viewing areas. I didn't even think this was possible, until I read up more on it. I know the Chinese ban/censor many sites and that last year the UK was also going to implement some plan of Censorship. There is whole bunch of info on the web pertaining to "Censorship". They will get away with it too as long as they keep describing Esoteric as a form of Porn.

I would post a link to that info, but I am new here and I see that is frowned upon.

So, like me, if you want to learn more just do a Google search on "UK to Censor Esoteric Websites". Supposedly, Russia will be the next to do this.

[John Sorensen]

No, I mean they will censor/ban them in their viewing areas. I didn't even think this was possible, until I read up more on it. I know the Chinese ban/censor many sites and that last year the UK was also going to implement some plan of Censorship. There is whole bunch of info on the web pertaining to "Censorship". They will get away with it too as long as they keep describing Esoteric as a form of Porn.

I would post a link to that info, but I am new here and I see that is frowned upon.

So, like me, if you want to learn more just do a Google search on "UK to Censor Esoteric Websites". Supposedly, Russia will be the next to do this.

Googled that title thanks.

Interesting reading. The same ideas have been thrown around here in Australia in recent years. Certain parties within the government (the fear mongering types who don't understand HOW the internet works) have been been trying to implement harsher restrictions on internet use via "filters" for "public safety"

Other than the fact that people sharing child-pornography (the illegal pornography that we don't want, no sane adult is trying to ban consensual age appropriate porn from consenting adults/consumers, that would be a dictatorship) don't post it on open access sites, but on file sharing networks under pseudonyms, where internet "filters" have little to no effect on finding it, stopping it etc.

What filters do do is penalise Joe public accessing ordinary legal sites of all types, including ANTI-child porn sites, awareness and safety networks for abused people etc because of the archaic and completely backwards way in which these government filters work (or don't work).

There is a much larger issue at stake. When the internet came along, it took power away from governments and world media, and into the hands of citizens. This is the first time this has happened in our recorded human history.

Previously it was with was either church, monarchy, government or media that CONTROLLED and distributed information as a limited resource, releasing the information that it deemed "appropriate" to keep people in line.

What happens when the official worlds combined media says there were NO atrocities of civilians or friendly fire in country "X" from soldiers from country "Y",

but then Joe Public with his mobile phone records and instantly uploads live footage showing EXACTLY the opposite is "true"?

Well, it's makes the media, and governments like total idiots, who are clearly directly lying, not just massaging the truth, but lying and getting away with it.

So what world wide free information source would most governments (regardless of what type) like to control, regulate and censor with absolute authority? Take a guess.

How does this larger issue get ignored? By masking it with other "public opinion" issues such as internet filters, porn etc and scapegoat, moralising etc.

The central issue is one of FREEDOM and CHOICE.

What happens historically to those who did NOTHING when their rulers took away their "freedoms" one by one, or in some cases overnight? Did their society improve? Did they find more happiness and contentment in life from their benevolent rulers turning against the very people they were intended to serve?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-05/no-internet-filter-says-turnbull/4939156

At no point in that article will you see any official actually admitting to any incompetence, or that every major IT leader in Australia spoke out against the filter with damning criticism, not on any emotional grounds like my post here, but in a very nerdy bullet point list of every thing that does not work from a technical point of view.


*As far as the Filter in the UK banning all sorts of irrelevant sites, anything such as the "esoteric" sites for example. Well esoteric and other "key words" from their list are just words, and can be changed, substituted or forgotten.

A site could be re-skinned overnight and change the words it uses, obviously not say 5+ years of articles, but it would just mean communities migrating to new websites with different terminology to avoid such filters etc.

[CFTraveler]

Actually, we had a link to these issues in the out of topic experiences subforums. No one seemed to have a problem with it at the time, I wonder if that's changed.

[Daisy]

Your post makes me think of "The Blind Men and The Elephant." If you are unfamiliar with it, it's a poem that depicts six blind men each touching an elephant for the first time and getting vastly different impressions. Same creature, different perception.

The Blind Men and the Elephant
John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887)

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a WALL!"


The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho, what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a SPEAR!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a SNAKE!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he:
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a TREE!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a FAN!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a ROPE!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!