Copy: About Suicide

[Reav3R]

What's your opinion on suicide? What would happen to those who willingly take their own life after death? Will they be forced to watch the pain of their family and relatives and suffer or can they completely close their eyes and go away? Will there be any punishment for those who suicide?

[MooSaysTheCat]

I think that suicide is a bit overrated. First of all it's not easy to do it as many people believe.
Ultimately I think that suicide is just another way of dying. I'm not saying that it's not sad....all death are sad if you let them be. But I think this one got special attention because contrary to other deaths this one is one that you do to yourself.

The only time where I would be against suicide is if the person had a family that needed him/her.

You know if I get old, I'm on a wheel chair and need somebody's help just to poop.. SCREW THAT IM OUT !

PS. I assume no responsibility for any suicides that involve individuals in similar conditions to the ones I just described.

[Osiris]

Suicide is a real bad deal....there is a pretty good book on suicide and the afterlife.Suicide: What Really Happens in the Afterlife? (http://www.amazon.com/Suicide-What-Really-Happens-Afterlife/dp/1556436211/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1402793356&sr=1-1&keywords=suicide+afterlife) by Jon Klimo and Pamela Rae (http://www.amazon.com/Pamela-Rae-Heath/e/B001K8QQY0/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1402793356&sr=1-1)According to the (most) literature. No there is no punishment as the otherside is all about love and understanding but there are Plenty heavy repercussions a person is going to face and significant karma issues, limitations, plus the shame and sadness for throwing away a valuable and difficult to obtain physical incarnation given for all important spiritual development. Inaddition the dread of having to face it All again when the person comes back next time, because a problem not overcome is a problem that dosnt go away.

[John Sorensen]

Suicide is a gross misunderstanding of material reality. It can only exist in a materialist culture where we are cut off from or rather ignore our own higher nature.

If I was to go ice-skating, but when I got to the ice-skating rink I decided to take a sword and chop off both my feet, then clearly I have failed to understand the value and idea of "skating".

And so when we decide to kill "ourselves", we can do so only in ignorance for two reasons:

*What was never born can never die

*Your "self" does not die, no energy "dies" but transforms from one state to another


Suicide often happens when we are over-identified with body consciousness, and see ourselves as alone in a cold, hostile, meaningless chaotic universe.

If you feel you live in a safe universe, that your life has deep meaning, that you are living on purpose, and valued and loved and ESSENTIAL to the universe, and life, then you would never even consider "suicide".


Having said that, I was close to suicide at several times in my life and in my view it is (mostly) the by-product of a materialist world view, although some cultures have sadly ritualised the behaviour since antiquity (such as Japan).

There is indeed, no "punishment" for suicides, for any such punishment would be of your own beliefs, and if you so strongly believe in punishment, and a wrathful god, then such a "drama" would play out for your convenience on the "other side", but only for so long, and then a helpful friend may tap you on the metaphorical shoulder (or perhaps more forceful but friendly kick in the butt) and say "okay, enough of that, lets move on".

I can call suicide a "mistake", but that is still a label or judgement.

Perhaps, to use different less loaded terms, imagine you are going to a school, lets say a pre-school of sorts.

Now, to pass this school you have certain "tests" of the topics you have chosen to study, and until you master them, you are not going to skip from pre-school to higher education without learning the lessons YOU have chosen for yourself.

Would you trust a mechanic who had not completed his or her studies to look after your vehicle?

Would you want a surgeon to perform on you who had skipped basic hygiene and sanitation lessons?

[Reav3R]

Thanks for all the answers, out of your answers @John Sorensen provided the best. I'd appreciate if others could tell their opinions also.

[IA56]

Thanks for all the answers, out of your answers @John Sorensen provided the best. I'd appreciate if others could tell their opinions also.

Hi Reav3R,
My oppinion about suicise is that it is pitty if the person does feel suicide some kind of solution to his/her problems, the only solution is to live through the problems and try to find a genuine want to understand life, and understand the purose why he/her are here ...it is not to take her/his life, but to understand it self beyond the body.
It must be very hard to find out that it did not solve anything, and it must be hard to carry the knowing to have blown a big opportunity to really understand by living the hard conditions of earthly life, it will for sure develop the soul nearer to make it back home to oneness.

Love
ia

[Dreamweaver]

Suicide is a profoundly complex, personal and sensitive topic. I think religious thought and dogma about any topic is also very complex, subjective, and sensitive.

In my opinion, - again, my opinion -it would be a great cruelty - evil - to so punish a soul that is hurting, so wounded, that life had no longer been worth living. In my opinion - the dogma of hellfire, some Dante like consequence for suicide and sin in general- is a cultural projection. It is scapegoating. A defense mechanism. Not the Truth with a capitol T. It is fear.

[CFTraveler]

I don't have an opinion, except that never want to have to contemplate it.

[ButterflyWoman]

The opinion I'm going to share is not on the topic of suicide, per se, but on the topic of people who insist they "know what happens" to those who commit suicide, or who do this, or that, or any other thing. This has been bugging me for a while, and I'm going to rant about it. NOTE: I am not applying this to any specific person or persons, though I am kinda looking at organised religion (all of them), but not only at that.

IMHO, what people are stating when they claim to know exactly what happens "in the afterlife" is just their belief, based on their interpretations of any number of things. Mystical visions, maybe, dogma, cultural bias, all kinds of things contribute to beliefs. And when we really believe something, well, for us it's truth. Is it truth for everyone? I certainly hope not, given some of the ridiculous nonsense some people sincerely believe and even preach!

I don't think there is any way to know what will or will not happen to anyone else in any real or imagined afterlife. Your own experience? Yes, it's entirely possible, I suspect, to get an idea for and about yourself, because it's all about you, your beliefs, your worldview, etc. But how could you (or anyone) know what will or won't be happening to me tomorrow around mid-afternoon? If that's difficult to predict or know, how on earth could anyone know what will or won't be happening to me or anyone else once we die?

The point of this rant is basically this: nobody knows. At least, nobody knows as far as YOU are concerned. For themselves, sure, maybe they have a good idea. Maybe they even know, or believe they know. And maybe they sincerely believe they know for every soul on the planet, because their dogma or visions or cultural training tells them they do. But until you have some direct experience of your own (and it is possible to get direct answers, though I don't recommend dying to find out ;)), it's all just pure speculation, particularly when it's someone else deciding (or "knowing") what's in store for others.

[CFTraveler]

Madame C. sees you eating a yummy lunch, maybe with a good book next to you. :grouphug:

[ButterflyWoman]

Madame C. sees you eating a yummy lunch, maybe with a good book next to you. :grouphug:
:D

[John Sorensen]

The opinion I'm going to share is not on the topic of suicide, per se, but on the topic of people who insist they "know what happens" to those who commit suicide, or who do this, or that, or any other thing. This has been bugging me for a while, and I'm going to rant about it. NOTE: I am not applying this to any specific person or persons, though I am kinda looking at organised religion (all of them), but not only at that.

IMHO, what people are stating when they claim to know exactly what happens "in the afterlife" is just their belief, based on their interpretations of any number of things. Mystical visions, maybe, dogma, cultural bias, all kinds of things contribute to beliefs. And when we really believe something, well, for us it's truth. Is it truth for everyone? I certainly hope not, given some of the ridiculous nonsense some people sincerely believe and even preach!

I don't think there is any way to know what will or will not happen to anyone else in any real or imagined afterlife. Your own experience? Yes, it's entirely possible, I suspect, to get an idea for and about yourself, because it's all about you, your beliefs, your worldview, etc. But how could you (or anyone) know what will or won't be happening to me tomorrow around mid-afternoon? If that's difficult to predict or know, how on earth could anyone know what will or won't be happening to me or anyone else once we die?

The point of this rant is basically this: nobody knows. At least, nobody knows as far as YOU are concerned. For themselves, sure, maybe they have a good idea. Maybe they even know, or believe they know. And maybe they sincerely believe they know for every soul on the planet, because their dogma or visions or cultural training tells them they do. But until you have some direct experience of your own (and it is possible to get direct answers, though I don't recommend dying to find out ;)), it's all just pure speculation, particularly when it's someone else deciding (or "knowing") what's in store for others.


Reality is what you make of it, an open source, everybody's experience is different and highly personal, but why insist that things only flow in one direction and not in every direction simultaneously? Is that not a belief?

You can and DO know what happens when you die, you have experience it many times, and also you experience it every night when you sleep.

Is that my belief? Sure why not, I don't insist anyone agree with it, but I offer a viewpoint that is something to encourage anyone not to take my word, but find out for themselves.

I don't find anything mystical about it, our perception is so narrow than we ignore any data that does not agree or conform with our mass beliefs, and when it does powerfully contradict mass (agreed upon) belief, we label those people crazy and put them in a box, and that is the finish of them, they cease to be a person to us.

"Nobody owns a copyright on truth" - Unknown

"Anyone who says THIS is the only way, I don't want to hear it, there's no one way to do anything" - John Lennon

[ButterflyWoman]

why insist that things only flow in one direction and not in every direction simultaneously?
Of course it flows that way. I was only suggesting that direct experiential information is worth infinitely more than taking the heresay advice from random others and assuming it must be true for you. But, honestly, if people want to just listen to a bunch of opinions and so-called insights and accept one or another or parts from various ones as "the truth" for their reality tapestry, I don't stand in their way. If you WANT to just take whatever you're fed and swallow it and make it part of you, hey, go for it. That's as valid a path as anything else. This particular persona (that is, "me") doesn't swing that way, and I often take the opportunity to point out that if someone else wants to forge their own experiential path, they can, but, in the long run, meh. I mostly write as I'm inspired and it's probably mostly for myself, anyway.

Basically, I just like to rattle people's reality cage. I know people HATE it when that happens, because there's nothing more disconcerting than having your reality shaken about, but this is my current apparent function, so that's what I do.

You may be assuming more about the depth of my convictions and beliefs than is actually there. I have no particular investment in "teaching" anyone anything. I did once, yes, because I believed (ah hah!) that I had some unique thing to teach or that there was some "greater good" that I could contribute to or... I dunno, something. Now, not so much. I write when I feel like writing and I rattle cages when I feel like it, and if it doesn't make any sense to anyone but me, I'm good with that, too. Did what I wrote or will write in the future or am writing right now have any effect in the overall chaotic tapestry that is "reality"? *shrug* Not my concern. ;)

[MooSaysTheCat]

Ummm.....but can't suicides be a positive thing too? I mean...who has not heard of the hero that "sacrifices" himself to save the world? He's basically taking his life to save everyone....taking his life....or in other words he's committing suicide to save everyone. Or , if my son has a heart problem and he will die unless he can get a replacement. But only I have a heart that is compatible with his, I will sacrifice myself to save him. Or in other words you could say I committed suicided to save my son... Will I still go to hell for that? Suicide and sacrifice could mean the same thing given the situation. It's just like when you call a person "weird" or "different" they mean the same thing it's just that "different" is a nicer or positive way of saying the same thing.

You could say that Jesus committed suicided to repent for the sins if humanity. If you can see it from a different point of view, I mean he knew he was going to die...and he personally let himself get captured when he could have easily escaped. Yet he did not get punished as far as I know.


I am in no way trying to justify suicide. However I believe that the word "suicide" has received a "negative" meaning or vibe by society. The word by itself is not "evil" .


Now that I think about it.....everything I just wrote might be a bit off-topic....

[CFTraveler]

But it's charged with meaning, and in this society being a hero that sacrifices him-or-herself for others are not called suicides, they're called either martyrs, or sacrifices.

[Osiris]

Well lol l cant help but have an opinion regarding suicide to. And I sticking to my guns...suicide is a bad deal. Not just for the perpetrator but for all of us. Sure I dont have a pipeline to any "Gods" top desk drawer. But when I look around nature I dont see too many squirrels and blackbirds throwing themselves on sharp sticks. I dont see roses in my garden choking themselves. I know Im being silly but its what I see. I see things being born....growing....and dying (usually of old age...check the obits). And it dosnt take a rocket scientist to see that we learn and usually become happier and more well rounded individuals as we age. Everything in nature Grows with age....
I dont give a hoot about what religion or science says about anything they are all about power and money. Things in nature (of which we are an intimate part) mature and grow and almost always in a positive way. I do personally know there is another side....Ive experienced it in obes and wide awake in the physical. Sure its a "personal" experience... the scientific method, wonderful as it is, is not perfect and its requirement and dependence on experimentation can blind in individual and a society. Just look at the west and what we've created.
The real problem with suicide isnt the death itself its that soooo little is ever done to tend to the suffering that leads to it. In the west especially there is such a stigma attached to helping anyone suffering. Most people just want the person to crawl into a corner and die so they dont have to see or hear about it anymore or so they dont have to stop there "busy day" to lend a hand. Here in the america its all about the Money....and if your taking up my time...".get away from me!" If the people on this side could get a fraction of the help they will get on the otherside after the unfortunate deed is done the deed itself would have never occurred. Thats the rub....if you destroy yourself you no longer grow (here at least) and here is were we need the growth the most. Rant over :wacky1:
'

[MooSaysTheCat]

But it's charged with meaning, and in this society being a hero that sacrifices him-or-herself for others are not called suicides, they're called either martyrs, or sacrifices.

Exactly my point...they would be called martyrs. But it's basically just suicide...Because what would come of the heroes suicide would be a positive thing. But suicide is an "evil" thing, se we just HAVE to change the word into a "good" thing. In this case a heroic sacrifice.

And for suicide to bring a good thing...we'll that would be just silly now wouldn't it?

I'm sorry if what I wrote upsets anyone ...but I have been reading this thread for some time now and I was not seeing anyone saying anything positive about suicides....we'll maybe there is nothing positive about them...but of course this is a world ruled by the law of duality...so for suicide not to have a "good" side is absolutely impossible. I guess.
And I believe that anyone that wants to know something about anything must first hear both sides of the story, so to speak.

[CFTraveler]

What you wrote didn't upset anyone that I know of, but in most societies, even the ones that see suicide as a 'good thing', all this manner of labeling exists. We label something the way we see it, and just because an act 'seems' to be the same thing, it really isn't- the motivation of the 'doer' puts a different spin on the act. Take 'killing' for example- you can be a war hero, or a murderer, or even an idiot- the act of killing someone will have different descriptors, because the act really isn't the same, even if it seems so on the surface.
In the big picture everything is the same, some describe it as illusion, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't use as many words as possible to describe an event- in my opinion, the more descriptive the better- and an attempt to 'overly simplify' it is an excuse to not look at everything that is associated with it.

[Reav3R]

Pardon me, but I think the subject's being derailed here, the question wasn't whether suicide is or could be a good or bad thing. The topic is mainly about "what" could possibly unfold for someone who commits a suicide, it doesn't matter whether it's a good thing or a bad one.

[CFTraveler]

Good catch, Reav3r.

7

[MooSaysTheCat]

Pardon me, but I think the subject's being derailed here, the question wasn't whether suicide is or could be a good or bad thing. The topic is mainly about "what" could possibly unfold for someone who commits a suicide, it doesn't matter whether it's a good thing or a bad one.

Well then I'm gonna act all clever and say that what I was trying to express is that nothing bad has to happen because of an act of suicide and that all this time I was just trying to explain why it was that I believed that.

[Boundless]

I tend to think about it this way. *deep breath*

Sleep is the death of awareness. As existence on the higher planes follows life, dreams follow sleep - as above so below. The two are analogous - awake and asleep - alive and dead. In my experience, if one has a high vibrational level and is traveling on an upward spiritual path, dreams are usually positive. When one is afraid, depressed, or angry, dreams are usually negative. Thus we can see in the nature of dreaming what basically happens to our consciousness in the afterlife.

Most who commit suicide end up on a hellish lower plane, because they are in a great state of fear, anger, and sorrow when they commit the act.

Others who are indifferent end up on a middle plane - neither positive nor negative.

The final group are quite rare. These are the martyrs, who do not necessarily commit the act themselves, but rather willingly and joyfully give up their lives for a higher cause. They would end up on the highest possible plane - in union with the Eternal Spirit, pouring out their love for eternity.

Do not misunderstand this. In order to be in the final group, one would have to be in a state of the highest joy when the act was committed, as was Christ. ("Father forgive them, for they know not what they do") *Very few* of those who commit suicide, either autonomously or by proxy, are in a state of joy when death is upon them. The reasons for suicide are almost *always* selfish.

I have been through this cycle many times myself. I understand those who do it, and I do not hold any ill will toward them, nor excessive grief. The best thing we can do for them is send good energies toward their souls in the afterlife, knowing that they will be reached by our positivity on the other side, even though it did not reach them on this physical plane.