COPY: "we are all one" question

[Sahasraraawaken]

gday robert. i hope you are well. i had some questions for you and i wanted to ask these in sequence. thank you so much for your input on this because it's been driving me mad. i know nobody truly knows 100%the answer to these questions. however, it seems you, one of my best friends, William buhlman and many other people who are really knowledgeable in this stuff all come to the same conclusions. it sounds wonderful... but i would appreciate it so much if you can help me.

"we are all one" i get... that we all come from source. source creates TONS of copies of itself etc. i am very lost on this one question though. i was talking to a guy who said we all come from source. i agreed. he then told me i am everything. i kind of understood this but it got me thinking. if i am everything... i am you. so basically i am waiting for a reply from myself? i said okay... if someone stabs me to death that was me stabbing myself to death? and then he said yes. and you both agreed to it. first of all he said "both" if i am everything and everyone then it would just be me agreeing to another aspect of myself i am completely unaware of wanting to stab me to death... why? this makes absolutely no sense to me. i got some questions for you

1. all the people getting murdered in the streets. all the violence. people killing eachother over playing music too loud. the corruption. all this junk... lets say a random person kills a kid in the streets on purpose. am i that random person and that kid? does this make sense? i would sure hope not... its not that i see myself as separate from everybody its more so that i make my own decisions... am i part of the whole but i have my own unique consciousness? or am i all of this at once and don't even realize it?

2. all my guides... if i am everything then i am all of my guides too?

3. if i am you and you are me... right now i am typing to myself waiting for a reply from myself?

4. do we each have our own consciousness? i get we all come from source... and are all connected but i would sure hope we all have our own free will and there are other "beings" so to speak. i say this because this makes me feel INCREDIBLY powerful. yet... INCREDIBLY super... lonely. if i am all tat exists and everything that is happening is me on a superconscious level and this is all a giant "game" with myself that really stings for me.

5. negs... negs attacking people or even myself. am i those negs? again... if i am everything... you see where i am going with this?

6. example... i saw a long time ago a story of a women killer her baby in the most disgusting way possible. i avoid any form of media at all costs now and have for a good year. i thought to myself... my god. if i am everything and everyone.... i am her? and i chose to do that on another level of consciousness i am not aware of? i really hope not....

i hope this made sense robert. i cant explain this very good but i sure try.
cheers.

[ButterflyWoman]

or am i all of this at once and don't even realize it?
Yes, but neither. The greater One, the Universal Consciousness, if you like, is all of it at once, and fooling Itself so it doesn't realise it (for the most part; occasionally, Consciousness wakes up to Itself).


all my guides... if i am everything then i am all of my guides too?
Yes (but see above; it's not actually about "you").


if i am you and you are me... right now i am typing to myself waiting for a reply from myself?
Yes. :) And you're also sharing a line from a Beatles song: "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together." (That's from "I Am the Walrus": http://youtu.be/42luHhrsNhg )


do we each have our own consciousness?
I can only speak from my interpretation of my experience. And the answer is, "No, not really, though it seems that way." This is part of what is meant by "ego death". The ego is that which is 100% convinced it is a special little snowflake and wholly separate from everything else. Once that is seen through, the ego, as it has known itself, is no longer that. It knows better. It may still like to pretend (and it will, given a chance), but...


negs attacking people or even myself. am i those negs? again... if i am everything... you see where i am going with this?
Yes. Negs are no different to people who beat you up and steal your lunch money, or hold you down and try to strangle you, or actually strangle you. They're part of the One, as well. WHICH parts of the infinite One are experienced by any other part of the infinite one depends on the filters (beliefs, thoughts, cultural conditioning, etc. etc.) of any particular part of the One. Make sense? Possibly not. I suspect it's something that must be experienced.


i saw a long time ago a story of a women killer her baby in the most disgusting way possible. i avoid any form of media at all costs now and have for a good year. i thought to myself... my god. if i am everything and everyone.... i am her? and i chose to do that on another level of consciousness i am not aware of? i really hope not....
"You" are not "her". The One is her. The One is the baby. The One is the tree in my front yard. The One is me. The one commits genocide and is simultaneously the victims of that act. The One is All. You are the One, and therefore, yes, you are all that, but "you" don't even exist (not really) and neither does anything else. It's all a complicated, infinite dream that Consciousness is dreaming. (Or so I suspect; I don't actually know what lies beyond the dream that is reality, and it may not be possible for a limited ego-based human mind to know such things, anyway.)

Now, did all that sound fairly insane? I wouldn't be surprised if it did. It's entirely counter-intuitive, and it doesn't make any sense at all from the limited perspective of the ego-self. It's impossible to grasp fully with the limitations of the human mind. It can be experienced, but is it ever really understood...? I can't say, but I have my doubts...

[IA56]

Hi Sahasraraawaken,

I saw that you made a copy of your question to RB, so I asume you want others oppinion aswell, if not then I more than happy will delete my post.

My point of view is the answere both yes and no...even it is a paradox to talk about levels and degrees but for our understanding it is nearly a must for us to understand...because we have a creasing understanding and that is what learning is about...to understand more and more with time so to speak.

To feel that we are one does help for me as an idividual to stop doing bad things to others, when having the feeling that it is me I am harming...but there is persons who does not care for them selves so it is tricky how to first learn that person to start to develop self love to stop harming.

When this is achived then it does take another delicater/sublime level of understanding....

When more understanding is achived then it is to start to understand about the Atonament, and also stop compeating with God.
Ego is the one who does give us all problems, it does think it is superior and does not need God...we have free will, and we can choose what we follow and listen to....and we can defend truth as we can defend lies...We are created by the Source...but we have also created illusions...and to sort out what is the right Creator...we know in us what is right and wrong, but to dare to start listening inwards is not easy, we seek all the time outside of us the answeres....and we get dissapointed...we feel deceived by others when it is we who must start to listen inwards....

I do fail all the time when talking about this subject...what I know and want to say, I do not succeed...but one thing is also what is hard...to know that there is only ONE GOD...and I am His creation...what does make problems is when believing that I can do what ever I want without cause and effect...and blame others for my own doings...as soon as I understand that I am the one who has messed it up for myself...and I have to do the work...but God does provide if I learn to listen inwards...

I have to capitulate and know my place in the Creation...and work towards the Atonament, then I am welcome back home, my real home...to accept to be one with the Creator.

I might have messed more up than helped...as I have said many time´s I do not succeed to dress in words what my inner knowing knows :-)

Love
ia

[SiriusTraveler]

To me its like this: We are all one, yet separate individual consciousness creating our own individual separate reality. We are connected to each other, inseparable in a cosmic web... connected to Source, or All That Is because Source or All That Is is in everything.
We, as consciousness each have our own individual experience even though we are Source and Source is us. Even if it seems as if you are everything and everything is you, it is not you as in your unique experience that commits the horrible act of, for instance, killing an infant as a mother. You are connected intimately to source and hence to that horrible act but in my opinion it is not directly your experience but theirs. Even if this seems as I'm trying to justify that my EGO is separate from everything I don't mean it like that. I know that my ego is my ego and that its not truly me.

The way I understand it is that Source split itself in countless, unlimited ways and that everything is a branch of from Source. In this way we are linked, but still have our own separable experience. Source wants unlimited expression.
You don't need to feel bad personally for something bad someone else does as it is not you, not your ego and not your true self or whatever you want to call it that is committing the act. Unless you are directly connected to that person/experience through the higher self I guess. But that's just speculation from my part.
I guess I'm trying to find a way with words to separate you from others experience even though your not truly separate. I'm trying to say is that your experience is unique and separate from others, even though you are intimately connected.

This is my interpretation, but there are many others with far more experience than me. I just thought I'de throw my few cents in here.
I love this discussion!

[Sinera]

It is and it is NOT. It's all about the frame of reference, point of view and semantics you choose to define or describe things from.

Let's say that "the All/Source" is Gaia.

You can see your Higher Self as the tree, deeply rooted in "the all", all is connected.

Then let's look at a small leaf, which is your "little" ego-self.

You can describe it now from the PoV of the Ground (Gaia), the whole tree, the tree's root in the ground, the tree's stem, the tree's main branches, the tree's little branches, the branch where the leaf grew out from. Or - last not least - from the leaf itself, which is what most people do.

In autumn, the leaf dies and falls to the ground, withers and decays. This is the natural cycle and how it goes back to Source after it's "hey-I'm-part-of-a-tree-how-cool" experience.

Now we can speculate and this is all we can do. Let's say the essence of the leaf survives like a morphic or energetic field of information and consciousness. It might become part of another tree or the same tree - which is likely since it it gets absorbed back near where the roots of the tree it fell from are, maybe it is planned this way. It (the leaf essence) might however instead choose to stay in the ground of Gaia (stay with Source) because it's more cozy there. The same might happen to the entire tree (Higher Self) if it has had enough tree experience (again...) and decides to fall or get felled. Despite being 'disrooted' it is not disconnected because the wood on the ground decays like the leaf did before and 'goes back' to Source.

You see, I'm struggling a bit to keep the analogy up, it's not perfect, it's just to show how one could describe these things from many angles.

Who knows what really happens and "is". Nobody does. We can only speculate and entertain ourselves with possibilites. :wacky1:

http://www.baum-wald.de/pix/baum.gif

[SiriusTraveler]

Who knows what really happens and "is". Nobody does. We can only speculate and entertain ourselves with possibilites.
Agree, and its part of our unique experiences!

[Sahasraraawaken]

Thanks for replies! If this is true though does this make you feel lonely? Make love to someone? Making love to yourself ... If someone stabs me to death and that someone was me... Then I have the ability to live life in his perspective... What the hell is the point in evolving? Lol. I know I'm consciousness and definitely not my body. body is a vehicle etc etc... I just can't grasp the I am everything. That causes many problems for me. Yet I can accept we all come from the same source.. but I guess its an identity issue. I see people eating their babies and then I'm told I'm everybody I go huh? That's depressing! It was pretty fun when I felt we all were unique and had our own free will and consciousness. Now its like "you are them" and I'm goin.... Well this stinks. It makes me feel very lonely. It's like its a big game with myself and I wasn't supposed to know and now I am goin.... Huh?

[IA56]

Thanks for replies! If this is true though does this make you feel lonely? Make love to someone? Making love to yourself ... If someone stabs me to death and that someone was me... Then I have the ability to live life in his perspective... What the hell is the point in evolving? Lol. I know I'm consciousness and definitely not my body. body is a vehicle etc etc... I just can't grasp the I am everything. That causes many problems for me. Yet I can accept we all come from the same source.. but I guess its an identity issue. I see people eating their babies and then I'm told I'm everybody I go huh? That's depressing! It was pretty fun when I felt we all were unique and had our own free will and consciousness. Now its like "you are them" and I'm goin.... Well this stinks. It makes me feel very lonely. It's like its a big game with myself and I wasn't supposed to know and now I am goin.... Huh?

Hi again :-)
I am not sure if this will make any sense to you, but what do you think make you feel or makes you not to take in the depth of what we all are trying to tell or decribe to you about being one??
Do you have problems to forgive them who eat theire babies as you put it??
Think your self in theire shoes and turn it around...if you had just eat your babies and you wake up and regret and feel horrible about what you whas capable of doing...do you not think you hope you will get new opprotunity and be forgiven...and get a new chance??
Do you not want think you have done much even you do not remember it, and maybe it is a love act that you have forgotten all bad you might have done?? and need Atonament and forgivness ??

I hope I do not make your feel wors than before, I feel sad that you feel as you do.

I send much love to you.

Love
ia

[CFTraveler]

I think the hologram metaphor applies here: Every part of a hologram contains the whole- but in a living hologram, you can experience all parts in and as the experience of separateness, or you can 'be' all and have no experience. So you and I have the experience of being separate, because we experience from the point of view of our separateness, while there is a sameness to each one of us that we don't experience, except in a mystical state, within certain limitations. So maybe the evolution is not to 'change', but to be able to experience the wholeness individuality brings, without the illusion of separation. We obviously ain't there yet, but it's something, a possibility, to consider.

[Sahasraraawaken]

I think the hologram metaphor applies here: Every part of a hologram contains the whole- but in a living hologram, you can experience all parts in and as the experience of separateness, or you can 'be' all and have no experience. So you and I have the experience of being separate, because we experience from the point of view of our separateness, while there is a sameness to each one of us that we don't experience, except in a mystical state, within certain limitations. So maybe the evolution is not to 'change', but to be able to experience the wholeness individuality brings, without the illusion of separation. We obviously ain't there yet, but it's something, a possibility, to consider.

I can see this, but doesnt that sound incredibly boring? "We aint there yet" if im making this all up there is no "we" though. And for all the people who arent awakening they arent people... Its me in a different perspective not waking up. The people putting fluoride, a known ingrediant in rat poison, in my water is me... I guess to make things interesting..? :/

This is why i have a problem with this. :/

[CFTraveler]

You're going to like this even less, but here we go anyway:
You're assigning motivation to the greater whole, while the motivation only exists in the separate entity perceiving their part of the hologram. Even though from a higher perspective it may seem that you are putting fluoride on yourself, from the highest perspective it doesn't, because (and this is the thing that causes the issues in most people) there is no fluoride, no water and there is no you or me. Only the experience.
What we experience is not unlike reading a book- like a murder mystery- there is a murder, it's interesting because we know that it's not real, but from the experience of the character in the book, it seems that it is- and for the minutes you're reading it, you're living and feeling it- but when you're done with the book you realize there was no murder, no characters, just you reading the book.

This is the point where you either accept it or not, and not like any of it. Sorry.

[Sahasraraawaken]

You're going to like this even less, but here we go anyway:
You're assigning motivation to the greater whole, while the motivation only exists in the separate entity perceiving their part of the hologram. Even though from a higher perspective it may seem that you are putting fluoride on yourself, from the highest perspective it doesn't, because (and this is the thing that causes the issues in most people) there is no fluoride, no water and there is no you or me. Only the experience.
What we experience is not unlike reading a book- like a murder mystery- there is a murder, it's interesting because we know that it's not real, but from the experience of the character in the book, it seems that it is- and for the minutes you're reading it, you're living and feeling it- but when you're done with the book you realize there was no murder, no characters, just you reading the book.

This is the point where you either accept it or not, and not like any of it. Sorry.

Ah don't be sorry CFT. Where do you get this information though? Or is it your "my" theory?

[CFTraveler]

It's the inevitable conclusion to this type of understanding. If you ever read the 'not for sissies' thread you see what happens to us who get to this point. Luckily we do get over it, sometimes.

[Sahasraraawaken]

If this is the case I'm quite pissed because now I feel like everything is a big waste of time. I have skimmed that thread but one thing is apparent. I don't think anyknows. Every topic I read people have different perspectives. I even had one person tell me to go with Jesus Christ or I'm toast. Which again makes so sense. Why would I turn to Christ if I am Jesus to begin with. I don't do religion anyway.. but I'm not sure anybody knowste exact answer.

[John Sorensen]

It's the inevitable conclusion to this type of understanding. If you ever read the 'not for sissies' thread you see what happens to us who get to this point. Luckily we do get over it, sometimes.

There are currently 66 pages in that thread, can you please be more specific on what you are referencing CFT?

[John Sorensen]

If this is the case I'm quite pissed because now I feel like everything is a big waste of time. I have skimmed that thread but one thing is apparent. I don't think anyknows. Every topic I read people have different perspectives. I even had one person tell me to go with Jesus Christ or I'm toast. Which again makes so sense. Why would I turn to Christ if I am Jesus to begin with. I don't do religion anyway.. but I'm not sure anybody knowste exact answer.

Hmmm, "enlightenment" is a ridiculous idea that people like to hang all sorts of beliefs on, like a demented christmas tree with bits of every religion randomly stuck to it with sticky tape and pieces of string and then rolled in a steaming pile of ♥♥♥♥ and displayed as though it were a national treasure while others (who likely want to kill you) argue that it is "performance art"

Time saving tips:

1.Think for yourself
2. "?" Everything
3. Accept "what is", - that is flow with life, rather than resist life.
4. Trust yourself, your own inner knowing and feelings over any external authority, religion, philosophy, or advice giving forum busybody (that's me).
5. Take a rest and have fun.
6. Go to work and have fun.
7. Aim to consciously understand as much of life and the universe as is possible in one lifetime, while acknowledging there is always "more to learn and experience", but none of it is essential.
8. Remember to live life with passion and joy and don't get lost in metaphysical mumbo jumbo. If something serves you, great, if not - do something else that you enjoy and don't waste precious moments of your life on activities that just make you frustrated.

[ButterflyWoman]

Tdoes this make you feel lonely?
It has had that effect, during periods of ego breakdown and realisation. Eventually, it stops being an issue. I can and do enjoy my friends and family, even though I know they don't exist (at least, not the way I thought they did). In fact, the realisation that THEY didn't exist was a lot more difficult and painful than the realisation that I don't exist. I was actually relieved when I saw that I was a character in a play. When it really hit me that everyone else was, too (and it was some years later that it happened; I understood it intellectually but had not had the direct experience of it), I had quite a period of existential angst as a result.


Make love to someone? Making love to yourself
Yes. :) Doesn't bother me. Never has. In fact, there have been moments when I was acutely aware of not only my own experience, but that of my partner. Very intense, mystical, and wonderfully erotic.


If someone stabs me to death and that someone was me... Then I have the ability to live life in his perspective...
This is more complicated. "You" are unlikely to be able to live from another's perspective, at least, not for long. Your human ego-self isn't designed for that. Glimpses, sure. I've occasionally dreamed other people's lives, and I'm extremely empathic, so I've experienced other people's emotions plenty of times, etc., and I've got a knack for traveling around in the space-time continuum and observing stuff, etc., BUT that's not the same thing as actually living from a different perspective. I won't say it's impossible, because I'm sure it's not, but it's unlikely and extremely unusual. Possible, sure. Likely? Well... not very. Maybe. Some people may do it.

The thing to remember in this is that it's not about "you". It's about the One, the Universal Consciousness. You are just a point of perspective within that whole (and, for most people, a fairly fixed perspective).


What the hell is the point in evolving?
Does there have to be one?

Honestly, if you keep going down the rabbit hole, you'll come to realise that there's no point in ANYTHING. At first that's shockingly horrible. Eventually, you understand that this is okay. It's a freedom. You can do or not do, it doesn't matter. It's all a sandbox.


I know I'm consciousness and definitely not my body. body is a vehicle etc etc...
It's more than just a vehicle. It's a manifestation of this thing that is called "you". Thinking of the body as someting that is "not you" is like thinking of reality as something that is "out there" and not also part of "you". There's no actual division. Body, mind, table, door, tree, air.... Same same. The perceived differences are only perceptions. It's really all the same stuff.


I just can't grasp the I am everything.
It's not something you grasp. It's something you experience. And once you've experienced it, there's no going back. Contemplating it can do your head in, but it's actually a good thing, if you're on the path to awakening. And it's not "you" who awakens. It's Consciousness, waking up to Itself. "You" are just the vessel through which that happens.

But, not everyone will awaken, and that's actually okay. If everyone woke up, the game would be over.


I guess its an identity issue.
Yes. It's all I-Me-Mine. (Yet another Beatles reference ;) )


I see people eating their babies and then I'm told I'm everybody I go huh?
If it's any comfort, this is entirely normal human behaviour. Okay, that's no comfort. But there's excellent evidence that this was entirely commonplace in our prehistoric ancestors. Human sacrifice, infanticide, and cannibalism is part and parcel of the development of humanity as a whole. This is the stock we come from. I'm writing this not because I'm "approving" but because it gives some perspective to consider. (And before anyone yells at me, yes, I find it horrifying in a contemporary setting.)

I'll tell you what, I struggled for a long time with the loss of good and evil. I really did. The whole idea of stepping away from my human judgement and perspective in order to look at it from a more detached view was appealing, but when it happened and I saw it from a more detached view, I didn't like it one bit, and my ego-self was pretty upset by it all. Genocide, for example. The one(s) committing the atrocity is one and the same as the ones who are victimised by it. How can that be? It's horrible! How can this be part of an ordered reality? What the hell, in other words. Eventually, when the ego-self stopped struggling and kicking and relaxed and really looked (after the initial tantrum, which took months, off and on), there was some understanding, and then the full experience of it all happened and... well, let's just say it makes more sense now.

On a human level, I am still horrified by a lot of things, I really am. But being able to move to the broader perspective is surprisingly peaceful and from that perspective a lot more things make sense. Occasionally, the perspective widens so that everything makes sense, believe it or not. Even horrible things, even wonderful things, even all things.


It was pretty fun when I felt we all were unique and had our own free will and consciousness.
Yes, that's the game. :)


Well this stinks. It makes me feel very lonely. It's like its a big game with myself and I wasn't supposed to know and now I am goin.... Huh?
Been there, done that. Totally understand. It gets better, it really does. Try not to struggle too hard, though you may not have that much of a choice. Fighting against the realisation is a pretty normal thing, like struggling when you can't breathe. But you'll be able to breathe in time, and, well, the view will be pretty damned interesting.

[Sahasraraawaken]

It has had that effect, during periods of ego breakdown and realisation. Eventually, it stops being an issue. I can and do enjoy my friends and family, even though I know they don't exist (at least, not the way I thought they did). In fact, the realisation that THEY didn't exist was a lot more difficult and painful than the realisation that I don't exist. I was actually relieved when I saw that I was a character in a play. When it really hit me that everyone else was, too (and it was some years later that it happened; I understood it intellectually but had not had the direct experience of it), I had quite a period of existential angst as a result.


Yes. :) Doesn't bother me. Never has. In fact, there have been moments when I was acutely aware of not only my own experience, but that of my partner. Very intense, mystical, and wonderfully erotic.


This is more complicated. "You" are unlikely to be able to live from another's perspective, at least, not for long. Your human ego-self isn't designed for that. Glimpses, sure. I've occasionally dreamed other people's lives, and I'm extremely empathic, so I've experienced other people's emotions plenty of times, etc., and I've got a knack for traveling around in the space-time continuum and observing stuff, etc., BUT that's not the same thing as actually living from a different perspective. I won't say it's impossible, because I'm sure it's not, but it's unlikely and extremely unusual. Possible, sure. Likely? Well... not very. Maybe. Some people may do it.

The thing to remember in this is that it's not about "you". It's about the One, the Universal Consciousness. You are just a point of perspective within that whole (and, for most people, a fairly fixed perspective).


Does there have to be one?

Honestly, if you keep going down the rabbit hole, you'll come to realise that there's no point in ANYTHING. At first that's shockingly horrible. Eventually, you understand that this is okay. It's a freedom. You can do or not do, it doesn't matter. It's all a sandbox.


It's more than just a vehicle. It's a manifestation of this thing that is called "you". Thinking of the body as someting that is "not you" is like thinking of reality as something that is "out there" and not also part of "you". There's no actual division. Body, mind, table, door, tree, air.... Same same. The perceived differences are only perceptions. It's really all the same stuff.


It's not something you grasp. It's something you experience. And once you've experienced it, there's no going back. Contemplating it can do your head in, but it's actually a good thing, if you're on the path to awakening. And it's not "you" who awakens. It's Consciousness, waking up to Itself. "You" are just the vessel through which that happens.

But, not everyone will awaken, and that's actually okay. If everyone woke up, the game would be over.


Yes. It's all I-Me-Mine. (Yet anothat's no comfort. But there's excellent evidence that this was ntirely commonplace in our prehistoric ancestors. Human sacrifice, infanticide, and cannibalism is part and parcel of the development of humanity as a whole. This is the stock we come from. I'm writing this not because I'm "approving" but because it gives some perspective to consider. (And before anyone yells at me, yes, I find it horrifying in a contemporary setting.)

I'll tell you what, I struggled for a long time with the loss of good and evil. I really did. The whole idea of stepping away from my human judgement and perspective in order to look at it from a more detached view was appealing, but when it happened and I saw it from a more detached view, I didn't like it one bit, and my ego-self was pretty upset by it all. Genocide, for example. The one(s) committing the atrocity is one and the same as the ones who are victimised by it. How can that be? It's horrible! How can this be part of an ordered reality? What the hell, in other words. Eventually, when the ego-self stopped struggling and kicking and relaxed and really looked (after the initial tantrum, which took months, off and on), there was some understanding, and then the full experience of it all happened and... well, let's just say it makes more sense now.

On a human level, I am still horrified by a lot of things, I really am. But being able to move to the broader perspective is surprisingly peaceful and from that perspective a lot more things make sense. Occasionally, the perspective widens so that everything makes sense, believe it or not. Even horrible things, even wonderful things, even all things.


Yes, that's the game. :)


Been there, done that. Totally understand. It gets better, it really does. Try not to struggle too hard, though you may not have that much of a choice. Fighting against the realisation is a pretty normal thing, like struggling when you can't breathe. But you'll be able to breathe in time, and, well, the view will be pretty damned interesting.

Thank you butterfly woman. :-) I do have a question though.

felt you felt your p partner as well. Because if your partner i why would you experience your Also I am very sorry Also I am very sorry for my grammar I am replying on my phone and its freezing on me. Also I have experienced by location before as :-) well. and astral body at the sa and astral body at the same time and was completely aware in both realms. However with your partne partner. Like I said I am confused because if your mis understanding. Either way thank you for the reply :-) separate being and not yourself? I am mis underst understanding. Either way thank you for the reply

[Sahasraraawaken]

My phone has issues it won't type right. I'll reply on computer later! Lol. Butterfly are you clairvoyant? How often do you astral project?

[ButterflyWoman]

felt you felt your p partner as well. Because if your partner i why would you experience your Also I am very sorry Also I am very sorry for my grammar I am replying on my phone and its freezing on me.
Phones are a pain in the neck when trying to write on a forum. ;) If I understand the question (and I may not). Is the question, why would I experience what my partner is experiencing? If so, the answer is, "Because he's my partner," and "Why not?" :) But with the way your phone was acting up, I may have got it wrong, so bear with me. ;)


separate being and not yourself?
Both. Simultaneously. Probably impossible to explain. I've never had it with anyone but him, so there's that, too, but we've been together for a pretty long time and I wasn't very awake or aware when I was with previous partners, so it's hard to guess what it's about. Some of it is definitely my own ability to drop my "self". I just don't do it very often because it's quite disorienting and I tend not to get anything done in that state (laundry goes unwashed, dinner goes uncooked, etc.)

[IA56]

Hi again Sahararaawaken,

I think I know where you are now, the feeling you have I was in 1981 after the bad beating up of me and my son happened...I was total destroyed and my son too....and Sweden did celebrate the Song Contest what was happeing, and no-one did know I was destroyed, and they who did know did not care....so the question arises in me...what horrible has happened to you that has given you the hars reality check?? and I remember how I felt when this happened to me...I was also thinking...what is the point...and I was sure I will never feel any joy ever....and just in that period of time I was sure there was no point going on living when so little mattered....but I had my son to take care of and was not able to give in so to speak....and wow...I am happy that all has changed and withened and deepened and now I see and specially after the dividerline experience I see the big picture...and it is magnific and so wonderful to know...that from the perspective of the ONE and the real reality...even I...whom seam to be worthless in so manys eyes ...I am presious from the perspective of the existence...I did survive and get to both see and feel the deep meaning of life.....it is awesom!!

I send all love and I say...you are perfect and loved every bit and piece in you...and you matter...you are presious.

Love
ia

[CFTraveler]

@John Sorensen:
I can't point you at any part of the thread, because it describes the thought process of someone who is going through an awakening. You either identify with it or not, and that's ok too- it is what it is.
As for enlightening, it is a misused word that makes people's ego twinkle; it sounds 'becoming wise' or some nonsense like that, but it only means they're realizing something they knew all along- and like being 'shone on', it's not something they do, but rather something that happens to them. Too bad it sounds like something you want.

[MooSaysTheCat]

We can imagine that we are all statues made of clay. Where is clay taken form? The Earth. So even if we are statues walking around we are still made of clay so we are part of the Earth no matter where we go. So we are all part of The One (Earth in this case). So there, at a very basic level that's all there is to it. We are all part of The One , because we are all originally for the Earth so we are all the same and technically we are all ONE. But we are also still statues that can walk freely. So don't worry about how lame everything seems. You will get over it. And it does not really have to matter. Also give all of the statues a cellphone with internet access and there. Those are all the people that have out of body experiences and what not. Flying around peeking into women's changing rooms or whatever you do when in spirit form.

Another way of putting it.
Lets imagine we are all drops of water on a rainy day. When you are falling from the sky as rain that is You and the other rain drops are just other raindrops . That's it. That's you and you are unique (we'll as unique as a raindrop from another raindrop that is) . When you fall to the ocean then you are all ONE. Then comes the sun and up you go....and then you are falling as rain again. And you are a single raindrop again with noting to do with the other raindrops. But the raindrop is part of the ocean...So you are all still part of ONE. Oh yeah and then give cellphones to the raindrops and there you have all those perverts again.


See see it's not so complicated.....I guess.

PS. Sorry I called some people perverts, I'm just really happy today.

[Sahasraraawaken]

IA- thank you for the kind words buddy. :-)

Here is my problem with all of this mumbo. First of all... I have astral projected over 200 times and raised my kundalini and I have never seen this once what CFT and butterfly is implying. Even though that means nothing. I have the same view on enlightenment. That word is way too loaded for me. I don't have the answers I just have my experiences. Thank you both and everyone else for replying here. It really is mind boggling huh? Butterfly I am sorry about my phone there... It was struggling! lol

Here's the deal... This place is not my cup of tea. Earth. I don't like it. I have problems here. This place is a big POS. I am sorry if that was harsh but I have been places that blow this place out of the water. Love the nature here... but the other part is not for me. If "nothing exists" and it gets as deep as you explained it CFT, and nothing really matters.... what's the problem with blowing my head off to stop this "nothingness thats happening and doesn't even matter" no evolution... nothing. Why sit here on earth and watch people kill themselves, watch the society collapse, deal with the fluoride (that doesn't even exist in the first place) and all the other crappy things this place has? Wouldn't be easier to just go oh okay... this place sucks... (This "book" sucks) I am done reading now... and I am going to go kill myself now. But then you get people saying noooo dont do that! Why? If everything doesn't exist and this is all me what is the problem?

Butterfly you mention "thats the game" well i got to tell you. That's the stupidest game I have ever played. :lol2:

I read Roberts ebook on evolution and it helped me out a lot. It makes more sense to me I think. I can click with it more. I am going to go off of that for now and wait for his reply. I know even Robert doesn't know with 100% certainty but it will be interesting to hear his input.

PS... I am not dissing anybodies opinions. This is good and thank you all for the replies. I skimmed the "not for sissies" thread and that is just not for me. I can't relate to any of it and my intuition says it's loaded with material that doesn't serve me. So I clicked out of it.

[IA56]

Hi again :-) Sahasraawaken.
You say you raised kundalini, but can´t it have something to do with that you feel this upset as you do??
Yes, it will be very interesting hear what RB will reply to you :-)
Maybe you should do the chakra screaming what was decribed here before, I do not remember who it was, but that might give you some release of your frustration.
I would tell you a funny story but I am so crappy teller :-) but a good laugh would be good for you:-)

Okay, stay cool :-)

Love
ia

[CFTraveler]

If "nothing exists" and it gets as deep as you explained it CFT, and nothing really matters.... Whoa Nelly! This reminds me of Nietzcheians who say nothing matters and God is dead- that is not what I said. I said 'it's not real' and 'it's not really reality from the point of view of eternity. It is not the same thing, and I want to make clear what I'm trying to say- to you, Sara, it's happening- but from the point of view of your 'eternal' you, the you that had no beginning and has no end it is not reality, it is essentially a mental exercise. This doesn't mean there is no evolution, and it doesn't mean it's not happening to you. It just means it's only happening to your physical point of view. This right now may seem like the same thing but it is not, and while you continue to be disappointed (or whatever, enchanted works for this too) in physical reality, it will continue to feel like this is what reality is. I'm not trying to convince you of this view, I'm just clearing up what I said, because eventually it'll come back to bite me when I tell someone else something like "real and actual are not the same" or "just because it's happening doesn't make it not real" or some other thing- I know what I mean when I say it but I realize not everyone else does. Which is kind of funny, really.


what's the problem with blowing my head off to stop this "nothingness thats happening and doesn't even matter" Well, since your Higher Self decided to come here at this point in time and have this (probably annoying) conversation I have to say that it would be not to your best interest. I know that it sounds fatalistic but it's what I think. And deep down you know it too.


no evolution... nothing. Why sit here on earth and watch people kill themselves, watch the society collapse, deal with the fluoride (that doesn't even exist in the first place) and all the other crappy things this place has? Let me put it another way- there is evolution in the physical and psychological sense, this is and has been observed to happen- but the soul, the most essential ('eternal', I keep using the word instead of immortal, which is the one most religions use, and I do for a reason) you, eternal doesn't evolve, it already is. Now the trick is, to match the physical (if you decide to) the eternal, and that is the other side of the coin you haven't gotten to.
I know I should keep this to myself, but I for some reason am driven to participate in this thread, not sure why, I usually don't.
Maybe I should stop and walk away.

[Sahasraraawaken]

Whoa Nelly! This reminds me of Nietzcheians who say nothing matters and God is dead- that is not what I said. I said 'it's not real' and 'it's not really reality from the point of view of eternity. It is not the same thing, and I want to make clear what I'm trying to say- to you, Sara, it's happening- but from the point of view of your 'eternal' you, the you that had no beginning and has no end it is not reality, it is essentially a mental exercise. This doesn't mean there is no evolution, and it doesn't mean it's not happening to you. It just means it's only happening to your physical point of view. This right now may seem like the same thing but it is not, and while you continue to be disappointed (or whatever, enchanted works for this too) in physical reality, it will continue to feel like this is what reality is. I'm not trying to convince you of this view, I'm just clearing up what I said, because eventually it'll come back to bite me when I tell someone else something like "real and actual are not the same" or "just because it's happening doesn't make it not real" or some other thing- I know what I mean when I say it but I realize not everyone else does. Which is kind of funny, really.

Well, since your Higher Self decided to come here at this point in time and have this (probably annoying) conversation I have to say that it would be not to your best interest. I know that it sounds fatalistic but it's what I think. And deep down you know it too.

Let me put it another way- there is evolution in the physical and psychological sense, this is and has been observed to happen- but the soul, the most essential ('eternal', I keep using the word instead of immortal, which is the one most religions use, and I do for a reason) you, eternal doesn't evolve, it already is. Now the trick is, to match the physical (if you decide to) the eternal, and that is the other side of the coin you haven't gotten to.
I know I should keep this to myself, but I for some reason am driven to participate in this thread, not sure why, I usually don't.
Maybe I should stop and walk away.

Ah yeah CFT I can't get that deep it's not that I can't comprehend it (although it does hurt my head) that's too complex for me.

[ButterflyWoman]

This place is not my cup of tea. Earth. I don't like it. I have problems here. This place is a big POS. I am sorry if that was harsh but I have been places that blow this place out of the water. Love the nature here... but the other part is not for me.
I know exactly, EXACTLY what you're talking about. I've never been a fan of being here, either, frankly. I won't go into all of it, but I had a wretchedly unhappy childhood which primed me to have a difficult, painful, and unhappy adulthood, and the world pretty much always sucked as far as I was concerned. I know exactly what you mean.


If "nothing exists" and it gets as deep as you explained it CFT, and nothing really matters....
The notion that nothing matters is actually a kind of freedom, once fully experienced and realised. You can be and do what you choose, not just what you believe you must be, or believe is the right thing to be, etc.


Why sit here on earth and watch people kill themselves, watch the society collapse, deal with the fluoride (that doesn't even exist in the first place) and all the other crappy things this place has? Wouldn't be easier to just go oh okay... this place sucks... (This "book" sucks) I am done reading now... and I am going to go kill myself now. But then you get people saying noooo dont do that! Why? If everything doesn't exist and this is all me what is the problem?
Well.... yes. I went through that. For a long, long time. Eventually I got to where I understood that "meaning" is all arbitrary. We create it. We give meaning to things. We look at the zeroes and ones and we see patterns and stories and evil and good and right and wrong and on and on and on.

I feel for you in this struggle. Existential angst can be excruciatingly painful. It can look like (and feel like) depression, and that always sucks (spent a lot of my life in clinical depression, just for the record, so I know).


Butterfly you mention "thats the game" well i got to tell you. That's the stupidest game I have ever played. :lol2:
It's not your game. There's that I-me-mine again. You're not the player. You're the game character. Well... you ARE the player. But the I-me-mine part (which is the part having a hard time with this) is the character, and it's not happy with that thought.


I am not dissing anybodies opinions.
It's not my opinion. It's my direct experience of reality. Slightly different concept. But it's okay if you think it's mumbo jumbo. As I said, it really is something that must be experienced to be understood, and the adjustment to the different perspective is not (usually) immediate.

As Jed McKenna says, there is nothing people hate more than having their reality messed with. And the question you're asking are definitely messing with your reality.

[IA56]

Ah yeah CFT I can't get that deep it's not that I can't comprehend it (although it does hurt my head) that's too complex for me.

That is understandable that it is too complex for you, I really do understand....I did have all comfused during the beating, I did get to know at that time that I am not my body and that I shouldn´t fear the abuser, and I did get strength to get him out of my life because I trusted the information I got...but it did really comfuse me and as you can see this happening was like 34 years ago and I am still degisting what I did experience ...both the eternal information and this physical living....as you also said, it is hard to partisipate here when seeing people behave so bad towards each others and killing and deceiving and what not...
It will take long time for you to accept what is....but it will help to know that you are not your body and in some way this does not exist, it will exist as long as time exists....I can only say to you Sahasraawaken...it will take time to accept what is...but when you get deeper understanding what the eternity is...than it all will make sense...so have faith and be patience....all will be reveled to you....keep up the good work.

CFT off course you have to share your knowing for the greater good, thank you !!

Love
ia

[Sahasraraawaken]

You know IA, butterfly, and CFT I can somewhat get where you come from... On some level. I think the problem is I just have a different spin on it! And no butterfly... I truly believe you experienced it etc. I don't think it's mumbo jumbo. I am just at a point in life I question what this all is. not to the point where it stresses me out though. It is interesting. See I get we all come from source so we MUST all be the same. I suppose it's an identity issue. The whole ego thing doesn't work for me. I saw Tom campbell I think it was... once talking about ego. He said if you see a car you can't go "Whoa cool car!" because ooops.... you judged the car. GOOD FOOD! ooops... i messed up again... That s*** don't work for me. :lol2: You see a nuclear bomb go off... Ohhh thats hot!! AGHGH!.. oh wait.... no its not.. This apple tastes... OOPS... That's no way to live. for me...

Butterfly I promise I don't think your nuts or your view is insane etc. same with you CFT and IA. I think I understand but i see it in a different perspective. Once I asked for "higher self now" in an OBE and I just floated into a vast space of nothingness. Yet I still was "me" all my thoughts, feelings, likes, loves, hates, beliefs, were the same. it was just a beautiful feeling. Lonely... but beautiful. if that made sense.

i dont think its bogus... just a hard time understanding I guess. I go off my own experiences too and i havent experienced anything quite like that. I have experienced bi location before... I was in my physical body and in the astral walking my neighborhood with full awareness and other beings were around doing their own thing and i was aware in both my "bodies" though. I know I am just a point of consciousness etc. I love that... but yeah.

I don't mean to sound like all your experiences are wrong etc! Wht do I know... im just a truck driver. (soon to be) haha.

I appreciate all your replies too!

IA- thank you for the kind words :) See it's hard... because you say those it's hard to be here with all these people behave bad.. kill.. etc but if those "people" are just me (source) eternity and this is all an experience that doesn't exist in the first place... why does it have to be s*****? why cant it be beautiful? If this is kinda like a book like CFT mentioned (which was a good explanation by the way!) Why does it have to be so crappy and painful? I need a better book because if source is this powerful... i see no reason why source would want this experience. stress... pain... sickness... everything i already mentioned... corruption... i mean i could write a book on all the problems but i wont. Its not fun.. and reincarnation thats a whole different story there. I can't stand the "you have to keep coming back here until you learn pain" thing. that makes zero sense. you come here and the moment you are born into this place you are brainwashed again. you aren't allowed to remember your past lives. you are thrown into public education... if you don't fit in you get bullied like i did. you are put on medicine for almost anything. you live over and over.... i learned about my past lives. i sold my family for a bag of gold in one of them. how horrible is that? im over it now... no need to carry that stuff. but my goodness... I do not see the need to keep coming to this place. don't judge others opinions on this but I think the reincarnation thing isn't what it's cooked up to be

[IA56]

Hi again :-) S...
Would you say that nothingness, lonely, would be a interspace or a gap?? if you can feel it is a gap, then it is that gap you have to feel/understand because it is the gap between duality and onesess....so I am sure you will soon get the experience of onesess and all will open up to you and you will understand on a total different level....I am sure it will soon open up to you.

I send love and patience to you.

Love
ia

[ButterflyWoman]

I don't think your nuts or your view is insane etc.
Well, that's good. :) But it doesn't actually matter. And I wasn't offended, in case you're concerned. ;)


I go off my own experiences too and i havent experienced anything quite like that.
Well, of course. The whole purpose of existence (as far as I can tell, anyway) is experience, and all we have to go on is what we have experienced directly. That's empiricism at its most pure. I'm a big fan of empiricism, just for the record. It's the only thing that makes sense. ;)

The purpose of sharing these things is to plant seeds. Right now, it doesn't make any sense. Maybe it never will, I have no idea. But seeds are planted, not just for you, but for anyone who stumbles on this thread. And who knows what will grow? Or not. :)


im just a truck driver.
I was married to a truck driver. Know a fair number of them, too. Perfectly reasonable profession, and LOTS of time to yourself to think about stuff, which is cool.

I'll just leave you with this quote, for whatever it's worth:

“The notion of ambiguity must not be confused with that of absurdity. To declare that existence is absurd is to deny that it can ever be given a meaning; to say that it is ambiguous is to assert that its meaning is never fixed, that it must be constantly won. Absurdity challenges every ethics; but also the finished rationalization of the real would leave no room for ethics; it is because man's condition is ambiguous that he seeks, through failure and outrageousness, to save his existence.” - Simone de Beauvoir

[Sahasraraawaken]

Butterfly can you tell me your experience or experiences with this? Id love that! Are you clairvoyant?

[ButterflyWoman]

Butterfly can you tell me your experience or experiences with this?
With what, specifically? (I thought I had been doing that ;) )


Are you clairvoyant?
Somewhat, it depends on the situation. More clarisentient/empathic. Occasionally clairaudient. Have been pretty much all my life. Had my first distinctly mystical experience (your basic "standing in the presence of God's holy light" type thing) when I was about five, and starting having precog dreams around puberty.

But as I get older and the divisions dissolve more and more, there is no real or obvious distinction between divine and mundane, between mystical and not-mystical, so the entire thing is more.... dilute, I guess. But at the same time, much more powerful. Where once I had to have "a vision" or "hear a message" or whatever, now, it's just like a gentle osmosis. Occasionally, if I'm still, I can kind of see the swirls and eddies and ripples of reality (which, by the way, is chaotic, in the mathematical sense, just like the weather system or the world economic system). I don't have conscious or clear mastery over that yet. That's my next big project (for lack of a better term). It's where I'm going now. ;)

[SoulSail]

Putting two cents here though it's likely unnecessary.

Nothing is the womb, the soil, the canvass, the content-free ground where all life comes into being, and that life is brought forth from emptiness (no-self) into all that appears solid and outside of us. This has been covered and can be directly experienced by simply watching or feeling sensations vanish into "you". Where do "you" begin and end when a sound is heard? Where do you begin and end when you see the world around you? Pay attention. That's all you need. You're the background into which the content of life appears and the content, but since you come from nothing, your body is that--no-thing. The sense of self is an brain-spun illusion. Nothing other than One exists because One is self-sufficient and has no need for two. Besides, how does All that is (omnipresence) be other than All that is? Can you divide One without infinite fractions. There are no fractions.

Just like breathing, blinking, and every other function--life all doing itself while you're not paying attention, and when one pays attention a sense of self is formed to be the recipient, or doer of things. Enter Maya, illusion.

Notice your nature. Go back. Stop when unclear. Don't suppose questions can be answered without understanding whether the question is answerable.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/mahayanasutras/a/heart-sutra.htm

[ButterflyWoman]

Putting two cents here though it's likely unnecessary.
Everything is unnecessary. You know that. So please yourself. If you want to put in two cents, you can. If you choose to keep quiet, you can do that, too. It's all good. Or, rather, it's all THAT. Heh. ;)

[SoulSail]

That's what I love about you ButterflyWoman, you're just downright pragmatic about expression. Most of my life it seems was an attempt to interact with the world in ways I thought the world supposed I ought to interact. So I was born. That is the old narrative, and yes, the new is without a single implication. I may still have the role, but the part went to something else and that's about all that can be said, other than this:

Devil Rock is the best. I love it. Give me Marilyn Manson any day and I'll chase him down with Tibetan chants and cherish them equally.

Okay, that's all.

BTW:

Mountain is a Mountain
Mountain is empty
Empty of emptiness gives us a mountain.

I love negation.


Let's party.

[ButterflyWoman]

you're just downright pragmatic about expression.
I'm downright pragmatic about pretty much everything. It's actually one of the qualities I enjoy most about this character-persona. Thank you for reminding me of it. :D



Mountain is a Mountain
Mountain is empty
Empty of emptiness gives us a mountain.

I love negation.

Let's party.
:party::toast:

[Sahasraraawaken]

butterfly you sound just like me.. heh. i was always floating out of body too at about 7. sleep paralysis out the wazoo... it was normal for me.

but to clarify what experiences led you to this realization that we have been talking about? can you explain to me more what you mean by becoming your partner? did you shift consciousness and experienced things from his (your)...other? point of view?

I am not sure I am explaining this right though. After re reading all of this. Because I can understand what a lot of you are saying I think it's just in different ways... I explain it way different, use different words and ways of explaining it.

I don't know... You would think if people understand that all of this is a book, only an experience, and they understood consciousness so to the point that they knew they are everything and all of this is a big giant illusion... your family doesn't exist because they are just characters for this experience etc, you would have the power to overcome any form of health problems... instant manifestation, and so many other things. I have seen people who say this and yet they suffer from health issues and all this horrible crap. Headaches, and all of this shouldn't exist if someone is that awake and aware that this place is all (what we have been talking about) If you realize you are the only thing that exists you should be able to experience bliss non stop. I hope this makes sense... Yet these people still suffer from lots of stress. Why? What is there to stress? :lol2: For experience? I can't seem to wrap that around my head. Why would source want to experience pain. (Even though to source it doesn't know pain) then this just seems like a big a** waste of time honestly. I think I am pretty knowledge in this stuff.. been doing it since i was 7. but I know i still get stressed too!


I am not too great at explaining things sometimes. It's late... rest is needed haha

You got source... all that is. you. Going okay... I am going to experience from this point of view... (whoooooosh) and you live an absolute HORRIBLE life and end up killing all of your parents... whatever... going on a freaking rampage... you name it. Or you are just a baby... you are born and then your mother throws you in a microwave. I can't see source going YUP! lets experience this right here... sarcasm.

I can see source wanting to be the point of view of anything it wants to. But why in the hell would there be negs? What is the point? Also...

I think this place... if you are correct! I think earth is a mistake... Consciousness made a mistake. This place didn't turn out like it supposed to. Kind of thing... yeah I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist but :lol2: From MY experiences we are being played. Like a fiddle. For example the whole "love" thing. That word is LOADED. Love is a vibration... but we use that word with everything. "I love this cake" "I love this car" "I love this weather" I think we have been programmed to become confused with the word love. Many religions teach love. Yet many religions also chopped off peoples heads and burned them at the stake for coming up with new ideas and concepts. and if you showed people how psychic stuff works etc you were tortured to death. That's a whole other story in itself though. Again that's my experience so that's all i can go from! I am just saying. Something is not right.

[ButterflyWoman]

Well, please don't take this as flippant, but the thing that led me to the realisation and shift of perception (which is still constantly shifting, just for the record; it's not a "wake up and you're done" kind of thing, but an ongoing process in a new perspective which is radically different) is pretty much everything in my entire life. Everything contributed. Everything had a role. The system is, as I said, chaotic. There are some key events that I can look at and say, "Well, that was a key turning point," sure, but it's the whole of the story that drives the story, not the particular plot points. Hope that makes sense.

And I don't see reality as a mistake. I see it as a dream. Dreams are weird, they have random stuff in them. I suspect (but don't know because I probably can't know) that Consciousness is testing out every permutation, every possibility, every variation, and seeing what happens, how it unfolds, etc. Some of it, to human perception, isn't very nice or enjoyable, but when that narrow and shuttered human perspective is shed (or at least relaxed; I honestly don't know if the human viewpoint can be entirely foregone, though it's possible it can and I just haven't fully realised that), it's seen for what it is: a complex, multi-faceted, infinite, quantum, chaotic thought experiment. I don't know if Consciousness is dreaming, or lucid dreaming, or just observing things that were set in motion in time and space or what the whole deal is. I do know, experientially, that it's realy not as bad as it seems, nor as good as it seems. Those are value judgements, created purely by the human ego-self. In fact, everything just is what it is when you leave the judgement out of it. (This, by the way, is what I think Jesus was getting at with all that talk about not judging; that which you judge, you create to be this or that, and you draw yourself into that same judgement because that's the way reality works.)

[IA56]

butterfly you sound just like me.. heh. i was always floating out of body too at about 7. sleep paralysis out the wazoo... it was normal for me.

but to clarify what experiences led you to this realization that we have been talking about? can you explain to me more what you mean by becoming your partner? did you shift consciousness and experienced things from his (your)...other? point of view?

I am not sure I am explaining this right though. After re reading all of this. Because I can understand what a lot of you are saying I think it's just in different ways... I explain it way different, use different words and ways of explaining it.

I don't know... You would think if people understand that all of this is a book, only an experience, and they understood consciousness so to the point that they knew they are everything and all of this is a big giant illusion... your family doesn't exist because they are just characters for this experience etc, you would have the power to overcome any form of health problems... instant manifestation, and so many other things. I have seen people who say this and yet they suffer from health issues and all this horrible crap. Headaches, and all of this shouldn't exist if someone is that awake and aware that this place is all (what we have been talking about) If you realize you are the only thing that exists you should be able to experience bliss non stop. I hope this makes sense... Yet these people still suffer from lots of stress. Why? What is there to stress? :lol2: For experience? I can't seem to wrap that around my head. Why would source want to experience pain. (Even though to source it doesn't know pain) then this just seems like a big a** waste of time honestly. I think I am pretty knowledge in this stuff.. been doing it since i was 7. but I know i still get stressed too!


I am not too great at explaining things sometimes. It's late... rest is needed haha

You got source... all that is. you. Going okay... I am going to experience from this point of view... (whoooooosh) and you live an absolute HORRIBLE life and end up killing all of your parents... whatever... going on a freaking rampage... you name it. Or you are just a baby... you are born and then your mother throws you in a microwave. I can't see source going YUP! lets experience this right here... sarcasm.

I can see source wanting to be the point of view of anything it wants to. But why in the hell would there be negs? What is the point? Also...

I think this place... if you are correct! I think earth is a mistake... Consciousness made a mistake. This place didn't turn out like it supposed to. Kind of thing... yeah I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist but :lol2: From MY experiences we are being played. Like a fiddle. For example the whole "love" thing. That word is LOADED. Love is a vibration... but we use that word with everything. "I love this cake" "I love this car" "I love this weather" I think we have been programmed to become confused with the word love. Many religions teach love. Yet many religions also chopped off peoples heads and burned them at the stake for coming up with new ideas and concepts. and if you showed people how psychic stuff works etc you were tortured to death. That's a whole other story in itself though. Again that's my experience so that's all i can go from! I am just saying. Something is not right.

Hi again S.
Consiousness does not make mistakes...you and I do!!
The God or consiousness has nothing to do with this world...you and I have come here because we are on our road back to the right home so to speak...and the paradox is...as I am still sick...but my healing has begun...now...when I do understand more...If I compare myself to 1980-81 when I really did get the information about us not being a body...and it was 34 years ago...I did not beleive it fully then...I was not able to comprahand it....but today I can...but it is not easy to try to communicate it to you for your understanding...
It is not real in that way that this world is build more with fear than love....fear and love are two different worlds...so to speak..our real home is love...but we have co-created this world with other who have difficulty to feel or think of being worthy of unconditional love...and therefore our way is not yet perfect ...but we are learning ...we are here to learn again how to become worthy of unconditional love...and stop thinking destruction and death....the real world is...life and love...but death is a new chance to try again to understand ...over and over again...because consiousness did create Atonament after the separation...and still we have not get it totally ...because we fear us self´s and God....

You are right about us using the word love total wrong, but I think we want to fool us and others and hide that we do hate that we do not understand...so we use words we know are good so to speak...and fool with words.....but everyone has own responsibility to stop using others for not doing own part of the work....and slacking ...like he does not do it..why should I do...we have to start to care more obout us self´s...we can not do any difference but in our own life...and it should be enough to want the best ...then you can give the best to others too...and then the real love will grow...and to care and take care of you is the first step towards real love.

It will soon sink in...I am sure it will not take you 34 years to comprahend it as it took for me :-)

It is still back and forth...but I am more stabil today than ever :-)

Love
ia

[HoldOrFold]

I haven't read all the replies, but to reply to the original post:

We are all one but you can either be conscious of this or unconscious. In unconciousness people, they experience being seperate from God (and other people/beings). If you're separate from Source then you are in darkness and act accordingly and that's when you get people committing horrible crimes.

Contrast this to someone who is conscious, they enjoy a vast awareness and treat others as they would treat themselves.

You can also look at it as whether someone is in line with Truth or not. It's true that we are all one, if you are aware of this, accept it and live by it then you will be in harmony with light. If you do not accept the truth then you are in darkness. Some say that ultimately negativity doesn't exist because it's lies (not truth)... when you are with God all negativity ceases to exist. For some reason though, in this realm, we have this illusion where truth and non-truth both seem real.