Creative power and efficieny of OBE's

[Akashic_Librarian]

If we look at what the Etheric Substance is, most people agree it is "Thought Stuff" In other words you can manipulate it with your mind, especially on the Astral Level. So wouldn't that mean that a person who was more naturally creative should have more control over there "Body" and the surroundings than someone who was more of a logical thinker???

[CFTraveler]

It depends. It is my experience that a big chunk of what we create in the astral (and in waking consciousness) is a result of mostly subconscious processes, and that is independent of a person's creativity- the subconscious never stops doing whatever it does. So maybe a creative person has more control of what they create, while an analytic person creates it and then tries to figure out what they created.
Of course, this is all speculation on my part.

[Beekeeper]

Must be the libran in me, Akashic, but I tend to believe in balance: creativity plus logic. I think both probably have their place in both realities.

I question whether they're absolute binaries rather than some type of a continuum of the same thing, in any case.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Well after reading and re-reading AND re-re-reading Astral dynamics and countless case studies it seems to me that a powerfully creative mind should and would have much more control of themselves because of the way the astral body reacts to thought. Whilst and person who is more analytical would perhaps aim for a more "Real-life" way of approaching it. You know. They would walk everywhere, observe and keep themselves firmly rooted to reality....Only my opinion but it is based on alot of case studies and The Almight Robert Bruce himself :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Beekeeper]

What about the one that balances creativity with reason/logic?

[sash]

I'm in agreement with your perspective on this Akashic Librarian, I don't really have enough experience but people who focus heavily on logical rational thinking that I have chatted with generally tend to have a different reaction to OBE than more creative minded people.

Me being more creatively-inclined I can create any environment I want to go to in my mind, however becoming lucid is much harder. Whereas someone who thinks analytically might be more inclined to think in a dream, such as: How come that building is melting... That does not make sense... Oh I'm lucid dreaming and then they become lucid. However here the disadvantage might be not having as much creative freedom to build and mold their own environment as they see fit. This is probably more beneficial in the RTZ though.

Beekeeper, this is surprisingly difficult for me to conceive because in my experience logic and creative energies are completely incompatible (at least not in the same moment). One seems to come first before the other even if both are quite balanced. Even so, with the possible notion that both could be in good balance, I think one would have the best of both worlds (regarding astral projection, and not just that of course).

[Beekeeper]

Whilst and person who is more analytical would perhaps aim for a more "Real-life" way of approaching it. You know. They would walk everywhere, observe and keep themselves firmly rooted to reality


If I were analytical, I would quickly deduce that the rules of the astral were different and I would set about discovering possibilities within these worlds. If I were creative as well, I'd have a lot of fun doing it. I've done a bit of reading too and I've noticed this trend to balance both logic and creativity among astral adepts. They also like doing things that are very logical such as listing the indicators of when separation is happening and trying to identify zones. They creatively theorise on astral laws and beings as well, but their speculation is based on their experiences, the patterns that emerge, their trial and error, etc.

Such balance is conducive to understanding the OB experience and relating it to others, as long as you know when to quieten one aspect (logic or creativity), if this is what is required.

I think the two in balance is characteristic of certain types (not all) of genius. Someone like Leonardo or Einstein, for instance. That is, openness to inspiration and leaps of intuition and creativity as well as the logic/reason to manifest what was inspired in creative terms. But I'm digressing.

Of on holidays for a few days so I'll check this thread when I get back. Interesting stuff though! :)

[Akashic_Librarian]

I do not personally believe logic is as useful creativity in any circumstance. Thus I don't strive for a balance of the two. I have always had strong creative abilities so I tend to lean towards imagination rather than logically working somthing out. For example I can understand metaphysical concepts more because I can visualize what people are saying, instead of rationalizing it.

Beekeeper I believe logic is only required to manifest something on a very basic level. In my opinion a thoguht is enough to manifest an object when the thought is properly applied in The Correct Way.

Sash - I am glad other people agree with me :)

[Beekeeper]

You were too quick for me, Akashic. I was having modem problems so I got stuck in the middle of editing my post. So re-read it, okay, because what you read was a post-in-progress. :)

[Akashic_Librarian]

Ok then, taking into account what you have just re-posted lol I will now explain what I mean I don't mean I completely disregard logic as a factor of existence. To do so would be a foolish mistake at best. I do however downplay its importance in my life. I am very grateful to Robert Bruce and all those who help in mapping out the astral dimensions and discovering the laws. But I think logic should be made a slave to our mind. Thus we only let it out when we have to, make it do what has to be done the nlock it away. Whilst our creative mind runs free.

I think even Robert Bruce prefer creativity to the logcial approach because as I was reading astral Dynamics, the Akashic Pulse section (for the ten millionth time ;)) I felt a strange tigling I have never felt before. it was like sheer excitment, I am sure it was an empathic connection or perhaps some form Psychometry (Could a psionicly adept person help me on the terminology here please) But it felt more impassioned than the other sections which are logic and structured sections. This section (on creating the sword and armour from your thoughts) felt free and empowered. Its hard to describe really.

But anyway I can't wait for someone else to post a reply to this, I love good conversations like this!

[astralspinner]

Actually, since creativity is, by its very nature, uncontrollable and undisciplined, I'd say that it was exactly the other way round: the more creative you are, the more "mental static" you generate and thus the less control you'd have.

After all, a creative mind is one that constantly generates new ideas. If you're in a plane where ideas become real things, then you're going to find yourself surrounded by your own creations. In order to have maximum control, you'd have to "turn off" the creativity so you were only dealing with things you didn't create yourself.

Otherwise, stray thoughts like "Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was a door over there" would create that door for you; thoughts like "I wonder what it's like to have wings" would change your shape, and you could find yourself very disorientated very quickly. A person who was keeping his mind in a more meditative state, clear & uncreative, would be the one the the most stability and self-control.

All IMHO, of course :)

[Beekeeper]

I have always had strong creative abilities so I tend to lean towards imagination rather than logically working somthing out.

You know, Akashic, I'm naturally the same but I've developed logic too. (Perhaps we all start out this way?) In fact, I consider myself very logical (though I'm also aware that I'm equally perceived as flaky at times). In life, what I usually find is that I respond intuitively to people and situations and then employ logic to verify the intuitive. If logic doesn't satisfy me, I don't discard the intuitive, I just proceed with care.

There are times too when logic convinces me that I've imagined wrongly.

I concede "logic" has its limitations. If by "logic" we mean accepted belief or opinion, then it's definitely not enough. Also, there are sublime experiences that defy logical explanation. The act of capturing them, describing them is complicated by the failure of language* to truly express such things.

I also believe in creative logic: that is, there's a problem to be solved and creativity is employed to solve it (thus, creativity and logic are not opposites but partners)

Last night I became lucid in my dream. I tried to prove it logically but my reality check failed repeatedly. Not to worry, I knew I was dreaming and decided to go along with the dream. I gradually lost lucidity with this approach, becoming increasingly sucked in by the dream's reality- even though it continued to defy logic as I would understand it in waking. I suspect I would have done better to take creative control of it as I was beginning to do (until I changed my mind). So, certainly, logic wasn't of much use to me last night!

Anyway, just posting because I'm interested in hearing more from you on your creative approach to understanding. Have you used creativity successfully in the astral? What about logic, has it failed you in the astral?

Astralspinner's idea warrants discussion:


Actually, since creativity is, by its very nature, uncontrollable and undisciplined, I'd say that it was exactly the other way round: the more creative you are, the more "mental static" you generate and thus the less control you'd have.

I see the challenge as learning to discipline creativity. If you are creative, you often shed one idea in favour of another or leave an idea for another time. My limited experience of the astral suggests that creativity doesn't generate endless possibilities and this is where I believe CF Traveller is quite right. Somehow, the subconscious makes the decision for you and you work with that depending on the level of lucidity you experience within the experience.

Sorry about the length of this.

*Art/music might work here. Certainly my dream diary is spattered with drawings