The definition of "Poltergeist"

I would like to help clarify something here. Poltergeist activity is not a ghost or an astral entity. Ghosts, and I suppose, astral entities can move things around. But, the term "Poltergeist" is very often misused by New Age teachers and healers.

In actual poltergeist cases, when the person, family or others who are experiencing this have it explained to them, the activity immediately goes away. An interview of the people involved is conducted. When the person who has the greatest amount of stress is identified, the cause of the stress is identified, and it is explained to them that they are experiencing pychokinesis, the acitivity stops. In other words, the person's stress is sending out energy that is throwing dishes, etc. around. This is the true definition of "poltergeist". Not the Hollywood, scary movie definition.

So, it is assumed that a ghost/spirit can also engage in psychokinesis/Pk/telekinesis and move items. But, the definition of this is not poltergeist. Poltergeist is a very specific Parapsychology term for a very specific cause and effect.

...I hate to say it Painter but that's not correct.....

Poltergeist is a blanket term for any wierd activity going around in a house.

Note: Painterhypnogirl is Tempestinateapot.

Here we go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poltergeist

So, basically what your saying is the most commonly accepted theory for why poltergeist activity occurs, but isn't the definition of poltergeist. :idea:

[Tempestinateapot]

Yes, the word poltergeist does mean "noisy ghost". But, as in many cases with words, the meanings have been refined and reshaped into current usage and differ from the original. I love wikipedia, but don't consider it always factual. But, since you mentioned it, this is a direct quote from wikipedia and describes exactly what I'm talking about.

Poltergeist phenomena is a focus of study within parapsychology. Parapsychologists define poltergeist activity as a type of uncontrolled psychokinesis. Recurrent Spontaneous Psychokinesis (RSPK) is a phrase suggested by parapsychologist William G. Roll to denote poltergeist phenomena.

Poltergeist activity tends to occur around a single person called an agent or a focus. Focuses are often, but not limited to, pubescent children. Almost seventy years of research by the Rhine Research Center (Raleigh-Durham, NC USA) has led to the hypothesis among parapsychologists that the "poltergeist effect" is a form of psychokinesis generated by a living human mind (that of the agent). According to researchers at the Rhine Center, the "poltergeist effect" is the outward manifestation of psychological trauma.


As some people know, I am friends with and have received a Parapsychology Certification from Loyd Auerbach after almost a year of study with him. He is considered one of the leading parapsychologists in the world and attends parapsychology conferences, produces papers and books, and is educated in the field as being one of the few people in the world who has a graduate level college degree in Parapsychology. One of his books is highly acclaimed as the "Bible of Parapsychology".

So, I am not giving the pop culture definition of poltergeist. I am giving the definition that Loyd gave to me, which is the one accepted by educated Parapsychologists, but not necessarily the one that psychics and healers use. The reason for this is to help move the study of Parapsychology out of the realm of airy fairy metaphysics and in to the realm of more respected science fields. Having a commonly understood terminology is important in this endeavor. I love airy fairy metaphysics, but I also would like to see it brought up to date and respected. The only way this is going to happen is by scientific methodology being done correctly in the field and teminology being used correctly.

If I may...

So, what your saying is that what some people commonly refer to as poltergeist activity is really "Recurrent Spontaneous Psychokinesis (RSPK), a phrase suggested by parapsychologist William G. Roll to denote poltergeist phenomena."

I think poltergeist still means poltergeist, but what some folks blame on a 'noisy ghost' could really be the result of RSPK.

Is that right?

[Tempestinateapot]

Yes, that is the correct definition of the term. It is a PK phenomena unknowingly done by a stressed out "human". A ghost/spirit also uses PK to move things (as they can't really pick up something in the physical), but the ghost is not a "poltergeist".

A "noisy ghost" doesn't really describe anything except a ghost making noise. It doesn't say anything about things being thrown around. So, the original term doesn't fit either the pop culture term "poltergeist" or the parapsychology term "poltergeist".

To complicate things even further, a "haunting" is not a ghost. It's an energy imprint left behind at the scene of a trauma. The way to differentiate it from a true ghost, is that the "movie" is played over and over. For example, a woman walks down a staircase crying. Then, it repeats, possibly later when another person notices it. It follows the same scenario over and over, and can sometimes be a very complicated movie.

A "ghost" is simply a ghost, a human who has died and remains close to the physical earth instead of moving on into higher realms. That is the only term of the three (poltergeist, haunting, ghost) that pop culture has gotten right. *BOO!* :lol:

[animosity]

I would like to help clarify something here. Poltergeist activity is not a ghost or an astral entity. Ghosts, and I suppose, astral entities can move things around. But, the term "Poltergeist" is very often misused by New Age teachers and healers.

In actual poltergeist cases, when the person, family or others who are experiencing this have it explained to them, the activity immediately goes away. An interview of the people involved is conducted. When the person who has the greatest amount of stress is identified, the cause of the stress is identified, and it is explained to them that they are experiencing pychokinesis, the acitivity stops. In other words, the person's stress is sending out energy that is throwing dishes, etc. around. This is the true definition of "poltergeist". Not the Hollywood, scary movie definition.

So, it is assumed that a ghost/spirit can also engage in psychokinesis/Pk/telekinesis and move items. But, the definition of this is not poltergeist. Poltergeist is a very specific Parapsychology term for a very specific cause and effect.

Yea? Sorry by polterguist activity I meant it affects phisical matter.

Doesn't polterguist mean "noisey spirit" in german?

Yea? Sorry by polterguist activity I meant it affects phisical matter.

Doesn't polterguist mean "noisey spirit" in german?


A "noisy ghost" doesn't really describe anything except a ghost making noise. It doesn't say anything about things being thrown around. So, the original term doesn't fit either the pop culture term "poltergeist" or the parapsychology term "poltergeist".

If I understand correctly, what PHG is saying is that what a lot of people blame on a spirit or ghost is actually a form of Psycho-Kinesis originating from the living, specifically, a member of the household.


Poltergeist phenomena is a focus of study within parapsychology. Parapsychologists define poltergeist activity as a type of uncontrolled psychokinesis. Recurrent Spontaneous Psychokinesis (RSPK) is a phrase suggested by parapsychologist William G. Roll to denote poltergeist phenomena.

Poltergeist activity tends to occur around a single person called an agent or a focus. Focuses are often, but not limited to, pubescent children. Almost seventy years of research by the Rhine Research Center (Raleigh-Durham, NC USA) has led to the hypothesis among parapsychologists that the "poltergeist effect" is a form of psychokinesis generated by a living human mind (that of the agent). According to researchers at the Rhine Center, the "poltergeist effect" is the outward manifestation of psychological trauma.

[Tempestinateapot]

Hehe! Explaining this is more complicated than I thought.
Scymi said:

If I understand correctly, what PHG is saying is that what a lot of people blame on a spirit or ghost is actually a form of Psycho-Kinesis originating from the living, specifically, a member of the household.

Sort of. Let me see if I can clear it up...
Poltergeist - Live human using PK unknowingly through stress to throw things around.
Ghost throwing things around - A DEAD human using PK KNOWINGLY to throw things around. Or, maybe unknowingly, too...hadn't thought of that until now.

The only way to know the difference (unless you are psychic and can detect a ghost) is to conduct an interview with the family (or people around the phenomena). When it is determined that someone in the house is under a large amount of stress (not triggered by the scary things happening, but triggered by a stressful situation in their life) once they have been informed that THEY are doing the throwing dishes, etc. by using PK, the phenomena immediately stops.

Loyd told me that every single instance he has been called to a house where things are flying through the air, he has discovered the source (live person) explained it to them, and it stops. He BELIEVES in ghosts, and often takes a famous medium/psychic he is friends with along with him on ghost busting and house cleansing trips. He trusts her judgement (which is unusual for a Parapsychologist) and finds that having someone who is very talented at seeing/feeling spirits is helpful. But, the fact remains, that the majority of things flying around, in his investigations have turned out to be poltergeists and not ghosts.

** On a side note, he was convinced of the existence of ghosts when one walked through him. :shock:

Poltergeist - Live human using PK unknowingly through stress to throw things around.

I have to respectfully disagree. :)

IMO, Poltergeist is defined as a non-living entity, i.e. ghost. I believe it's possible that people have incorrectly attributed certain phenomena (like RSPK) to this type of entity.

No hard feelins', just my opinion. :)

Yes, the word poltergeist does mean "noisy ghost". But, as in many cases with words, the meanings have been refined and reshaped into current usage and differ from the original. I love wikipedia, but don't consider it always factual. But, since you mentioned it, this is a direct quote from wikipedia and describes exactly what I'm talking about.

Poltergeist phenomena is a focus of study within parapsychology. Parapsychologists define poltergeist activity as a type of uncontrolled psychokinesis. Recurrent Spontaneous Psychokinesis (RSPK) is a phrase suggested by parapsychologist William G. Roll to denote poltergeist phenomena.

Poltergeist activity tends to occur around a single person called an agent or a focus. Focuses are often, but not limited to, pubescent children. Almost seventy years of research by the Rhine Research Center (Raleigh-Durham, NC USA) has led to the hypothesis among parapsychologists that the "poltergeist effect" is a form of psychokinesis generated by a living human mind (that of the agent). According to researchers at the Rhine Center, the "poltergeist effect" is the outward manifestation of psychological trauma.


As some people know, I am friends with and have received a Parapsychology Certification from Loyd Auerbach after almost a year of study with him. He is considered one of the leading parapsychologists in the world and attends parapsychology conferences, produces papers and books, and is educated in the field as being one of the few people in the world who has a graduate level college degree in Parapsychology. One of his books is highly acclaimed as the "Bible of Parapsychology".

So, I am not giving the pop culture definition of poltergeist. I am giving the definition that Loyd gave to me, which is the one accepted by educated Parapsychologists, but not necessarily the one that psychics and healers use. The reason for this is to help move the study of Parapsychology out of the realm of airy fairy metaphysics and in to the realm of more respected science fields. Having a commonly understood terminology is important in this endeavor. I love airy fairy metaphysics, but I also would like to see it brought up to date and respected. The only way this is going to happen is by scientific methodology being done correctly in the field and teminology being used correctly.

I'm sorry hun, but from what I can understand him and a few of his followers are pretty much alone in his "definitions," so he gets overruled by the law of numbers here.

The term seems to mean "pk or noise activity," nowadays, and doesn't necissarily denote a ghost.

[Tempestinateapot]

I think you are missing the point here. You can call activity anything you want. And, I agree for the most part that pop culture definitions usually rule the day. This isn't about "opinions". I'm not trying to argue who is right or who is wrong. This is about defining and creating a model to move Parapsychology into the realm of science. I think you missed my post above about that. And, the parapsychologists who have been recognized for their work in trying to do so are the ones who are trying to define and create a vocabulary that is believable to the scientific world. Pioneers in the field of metaphysics crossing over to the scientific model, if you will.

I don't think that's going to happen in my lifetime, so I don't personally care all that much. But, for the sake of the future of metaphysics and bringing it to the masses and believablilty....

Now, where was that thread about trying to verify OBE, testing it, defining it (as Robert has with the term "RTZ") and helping to bring it to the masses as a provable truth? Or, should we just leave the future of it to the whims of the mystics? Am I the only one seeing the parallels here?

[CFTraveler]

Can't we all just get along?
No, seriously: Can someone fix the title? It's annoying me. I'm in one of those moods.

It's all good. I understand what PHG is saying.

What I'm saying is that the actual definition of the word Poltergeist is very specific, although this term may have been used to refer to several different types of phenomena, the actual definition of the word remains the same:


Main Entry: pol·ter·geist
Pronunciation: 'pOl-t&r-"gIst
Function: noun
Etymology: German, from poltern to knock + Geist spirit
: a noisy usually mischievous ghost held to be responsible for unexplained noises (as rappings)

The actual definition of a word and it's useage don't always coincide and tends to change over time. This is, at least, how I view it, and is therefore, my opinion. :)

I'm all for the concept of taking the mysticism out of mysticism, so to speak. :)

[CFTraveler]

May I add my two cents: Way back when, before parapsychology was invented, people used to blame anything on ghosts or demons. So any kind of paranormal disturbance was attributed to some sort of discarnate entity. Back when Poltergeist, (which means 'noisy ghost' in German) was invented, the correlation between the sufferer and the activity wasn't discovered, because back then such matters were not looked at scientifically, measured, etc. When psychologists and parapsychologists started studying the phenomenon, they began to see the correlation between the family dynamic, age of the person that the activity seemed to be centered around, and they came to the startling discovery that it may be unconscious psychokinesis centered around early adolescence, and using psychology to get at the patient, they found that talk therapy and things that brought unconscious issues to the surface made the phenomenon go away most of the time. So something that started out being thought of as one thing was discovered to be caused by another thing. Most of the time, of course.

Pop culture definition....

Ok, we are getting hung up on technicalities.

You originally said that the true definition of a poltergiest is a pk individual under a lot of stress, but that's only a plausible explanation of the phenomena painter :) That isn't the actuall definition.

I admire the work of ghost hunters or paranormal scientists today who are trying to explain the phenomena myself, but to try and totally take a word and redefine it out of it's original intent (which isn't pop culture painter, it's the true to the dictionary definition,) and then present it as something entirely but what it actually is simply doesn't work in my humble opinion.

Thus, while you do make a valid point in that it is usually attributed to pk phenomena, the true definition still stands. Hopefully this makes my point a little clearer and less antagonistic :D

PS seems I derailed the thread :oops: Need to fix it.

[Lordofthebunnies]

Personally, I wonder whether the poltergiest effect is not simply the result of stress and adolescent libido, but rather, an astral egregore which is created from and feeds *on* that internalized anxiety. If, after the person the effect is centered around is informed that they are its cause, the removal of fear could depower the astral egregore.

If it really was just the stress itself, I wonder why more people can't control it.

[Tempestinateapot]

I didn't detect any antagonism. I think it's an interesting topic. It seems to me that it's a matter of two different camps (mystic vs. parapsychologist) trying to define something based on their personal knowledge and experience. I think CF's thought about how most things unexplained were attributed to ghosts in the past was brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? Hehe, probably because I'm not brilliant. :D

BunnyLord :lol: had a good idea about egregores, but since I'm new to that term, it doesn't make as much sense to me. When have adolescents ever been known to control their feelings? :shock: I'm speaking as the mother of sons who were once adolescents. Never been one myself, so I can't say for sure. Knowing the power of the human mind, PK and stress make a lot of sense. Especially based on the documented cases. It may just be a matter of parapsychologists stealing an old term and using it to define something new that has been discovered. Perhaps "PK poltergeists" would be more accurate? I don't know, I still have to go with what I was taught, as I'm all for bringing mystical things into the arena of science. It would certainly give us all more credibility at work and at parties. :wink:

[Rayson]

Heck- just to throw out more theories, and make sure we never know :twisted: , I'll suggest that the belief instilled in people by those studies- that it was all just stress- projects outwards with a message of "you're not real- you're just stress" and that sufficiently counters the poltergeist's ability to manipulate/manifest in the physical.

Eck- I wish we just "knew" sometimes.

[Tempestinateapot]

Except in that case, it would counter the poltergeist's intention...because the activity stops when the stress issue is pointed out to the originator of the activity (the "adolescent"). So, the "ghost/poltergeist" wouldn't get to have any fun any more. :twisted: So, why would the ghost bother to use the kid? Ghosts can use PK and throw things themselves. Hence, the differentiation in terms and why they are necessary. See, I'm like a dog with a bone, I can go on forever. :lol: Sorry, working on that. One of my issues. My husband would greatly appreciate it if you would cure me of it. :P

[Freawaru]

Ah, terminology :twisted:

I agree with Patty that it is better to have clear definitions. :-)

I also agree with CFT that probably our ancestors only described the symptoms, rather than the source of the poltergeist phenomen (probably cause they didn't know it.).

But I know one case where the symptoms did not stop once the person knew it was her uncontroled TK talent. From what she told me she had the problems since childhood, too, so not an adolescence problem. She is adult, now, married and mother and they still come when she is in stress.

She, herself, is very sure it is her and not an external "ghost" or the like. It happens when she is in stress or emotional (fear, angry) and the things that scatter or fly through the air are also those she does not really like or is angry with at the time. Say, she is angry with a relative and then that relative's things get broken. So she tries to not feel anger or fear but that is quite hard.

Also, this "potergeist" had scared away a burglar once by manifesting an incorporeal voice.

She describes that indeed she feels a reduction of stress after a few days (and nights) of poltergeist activity. As if something inside her relaxes. Until it builds up again...

[edi]

I am not an native english speaking person, I did not even know what this word means until I read this thread.

I can't help but look at this problem from a translator's (linguistic) point of view.

The word is german and means 'a loud ghoust'. If there is no english word for a loud ghost, whatever meaning there is in that word is of german origin and is inseparable from say german mentality, folklore tradition and practical use of the word since ancient times.

What gives the word it's meaning is the circumstances and the way and intents it's been used in practise.

It's closest meaning and circumstantial evidence is the one found in official german dictionaries.

Old words wich tend to skip from one language to another tend to become 'umbrella' terms for different things.

In my opinion it is better to invent new words for a new idea, or new terminology introduced into science, so as to avoid confusion and emphasise their speciality.

Different languages have different creatures contrived out of different lifestyles and everyday routines. Those differences reflect the differences that exist between cultures.

Every language has its own specific relationship with reality and words cannot be tramped easily between them because they carry with themselves specific signature of this relation.

I think because we are all forced to learn english if we want to communicate with the rest of the world, this language in time will grow to except other language's words specific folk colour with them.

I can translate my thoughts, but I can't translate my reality into english.

I hope you don't find this post to be offtopic.

[chips]

yes poltergeist is a german word that means "noisy ghost." but it dosnt specifically mean ghosts. or at least, not in parapsychological terms. the person who is causing this phemonenon is called an "agent."

[The Godfather]

I think that it's not always so easy to say if the tribe is Poltergeist or not. It may make noises and nothing more but although it may be a very powerful ghost.