Questioning the need of beliefs in manifestation (COPY)

[astralreek]

G'day,

I have had scores of experiences in real life to show that belief actually doesnt matter at all while manifesting.In fact if u have heard the story of swami vivekananda,he was a goddamn atheist but somehow he manifested the advent of sri ramakrishna into his life and went on to become one of the most famous hindu monks.In fact as for my life,I have had numerous occasions when I couldnt study well,gave the most horrible exams without a doubt in mind that there could be no way I could get above 50% nd there were exams where I believed from the way I had given the exam,a decent marks.....the result just the reverse,I scored more than 60% in the exam I feared most nd the xam I gave the best only scored just above 50%.

I was once good in maths.But every time I gave a good exam totally confident after re checking the paper that I would get 100/100 it would fall 12 marks / 5 marks short.In history I hoped nothing just maybe 75/100 and it came out 88/100 nd everybody said like I was better at history than at maths.In fact I hated history like anything.

My sister used to be a goddamn astrology believer,she took all the necessary precautions nd measurements as guided by astrological systems for her marraige.Result-Life threatning Divorce!!!!

At the college social ,I played Drifting by Andy Mckee perfectly.We were absolutely sure friends and enemies alike I would get the first prize because to be honest there was no competition at all for me with the rest.It was cheered and applauded by all the most,everyone affirmed it to be the best performance even I had got my rhythm correct.Result-I get a consolation prize(3rd)...the 1st and 2nd guys they were sitting outside thinking they didnt win it.When they did they were like how??What the hell!!!

To be honest I dont believe at all from my life experiences that belief matters while manifesting.The whole new age stuff is pretty bs and to be honest I have never seen 1 goddamn manifestation occurring where u apply 1)State ur desire 2)Feel it happened 3)Act like it already happened and stay in those happy vibes.

In fact these things have made me much more realistic even at times I believe perhaps that magick and manifestation is a total nonsense and/or pretty truncated process.

I really dont know sir how the things I feared most have fared well in my life and they continue to serve me well even if I fear them for example I had the fear of getting beat up by a mob on the grounds of medical negligence in my hospital as it is very common as the death rate here is quite high.It turned out that though I used to work in total phobia everyday,I got great love from patients and seniors as well.Nothing bad happened though I waited for something bad to happen every single minute!!!

And the things I loved to do,well they didnt get me much ahead in life and had to discard them from time to time.

I really need an explanation into my wierd situation where the conventional standards of manifestation have applied in reverse most of the times.

Will be waiting for ur reply

Thanks

Reek

[PhoenixAndTheAbyss]

Hello astralreek
This is my opinion, and I mean it in the most sincere way.


I have had scores of experiences in real life to show that belief actually doesn’t matter at all while manifesting.

How have you come to this assumption that belief plays a part in manifesting or that manifestation is real? Did you read it somewhere or have you experienced it consistently in your own life?

What is a belief? for me it is an assumption, it isn't known.
If it was truly known, it wouldn’t be a belief.

I cant say anything for your own experiences, but in my experience, I find conflicting experiences are brought about due to an assumption/expectation about reality that doesn’t necessarily reflect the actuality of the situation.

In other words how I view a situation may not be the way it really is.

As for manifesting, well all I can say is though the reality of the situation eludes me, it does not necessarily mean that the phenomenon of manifestation is nonexistent.

Take care
Phoenix

Edit: Oops, just realized I responded to a question for Robert. Should I remove this post?

[Mod Response: It's okay. I did a copy of the thread and moved it to the Down Under forum. Lots of people accidentally reply to posts in Ask Robert if they're not paying close attention, don't sweat it. Just keep an eye on the forum you're in next time, and make a copy or ask a mod to make a copy if you really want to respond. :)]

[CFTraveler]

Good answer, Phoenix, and I'm going to chime in.
The whole manifestation thing has to do with how our reality is created. This is a basic tenet of manifestation and of metaphysics in general (at least, most modern metaphysical thought.) What gets people confused is the idea that the conscious mind (ego) is the one doing the creating, and that isn't so. It's the superconscious part of our mind that does the creating, with the subconscious mind as the gatekeeper of what's allowed and what isn't. A lot, if not, of our beliefs are subconscious. This is because the society that we form part of decides what is acceptable to believe, and even if we don't believe that something is 'true' or 'right', our subconscious usually has already put these ideas into the 'automatic' folder.
This is why when you go to a place (and those of you who travel for long periods of time to faraway places know this) you find yourself 'vibing' with it after a couple of weeks, and sometimes adopting worldviews of the place, while you're there. When you move back, slowly, your old worldview creeps back in, and the 'spell' is broken.
Astralreek's post, especially with the language (how many goddamns can you fit in a thread? lol) speaks loudly of what his subconsciously entrenched beliefs are, and it is his reality- therefore it stands to reason that he's going to get the opposite of what he decided- that is his method of manifestation.

[astralreek]

Sorry for the "goddamn" part ,I actualy wanted to say diehard.lSo how is it possible to get exactly what u want? Affirmations/Commands for days with vigilance?So is there any way to check this subconscious belief system...like whats right nd whats wrong?But I have to disagree that just becoz I sounded foul doesnt mean I was a bad guy in the 1st place when things started goin haywire with my life and my family's too.I was quite good student,well behaved,respected and loved by my seniors nd juniors alike and totally against alcohol,cigarettes which most of the young people find joy in,studied quite a bit of metaphysics since school nd that was my world.I also meditated as such,did my concentration exercises,read books on lives of monks nd saints nd all.So if u say that I was totally angry nd frustrated with my life,it was not.Sorry to say that!I led a quite peaceful spiritual kind of life yet it was me nd my peace loving family who have to endure great pains(financial disturbances,divorces etc) rather than getting positive stuff like a happy,peaceful life.So if u think u try to be Rhonda Byrne and tell me that everything u create is from urself nd that all hell's breakin loose becoz of deep seated resentment and anger,sorry thats not me!!In fact I even to this day remain calm and help my family members keep their calm when they start to fight among themselves.I didnt mean to hurt anyone in this forum but I know totally what I am.I have been an active spiritual seeker since I was 12 years of age trying to always grow,take control of my thoughts,learn from the masters about different paths of spirituality and actively try to implement them in my life.If I have become a little angry at situations,wierd situations first occurred then I reacted nd not the opposite.@phoenix As for who said beliefs r important,Robert Bruce said that for ur kind information.He said it created filters through which the manifestation was truncated accordingly.Astralreek

[CFTraveler]

Sorry for the "goddamn" part ,I actualy wanted to say diehard.l No problem. But I did get a strong vibe from your post, one of resistance.

So how is it possible to get exactly what u want? Affirmations/Commands for days with vigilance? That's the thing- it is not always possible to get exactly what you want, depending on what it is. It is possible to get what you think you deserve, and can possibly achieve- deep deep down. Sometimes you want something but your background may make you believe you 'shouldn't' have it. There are a lot of cultural bias reasons for this, and sometimes familial beliefs come with this too. A person who has heard their parents/grandparents/primary caregivers say things like "it's wrong to be rich," "rich people are evil deep down" and other stuff like that ever since they were young children will have trouble manifesting money, because deep down in their subconscious they don't think it's 'ok' to have money. This is the kind of thing that gets in the way of manifesting, because you're trying to manifest your desires, and sometimes even the word "desires" is negatively charged.


So is there any way to check this subconscious belief system...like whats right nd whats wrong? Yes. What did your family teach you about values, about life in general, what they believe about it. Talk to them, get them to tell you what they believe about success, what they believe success is- and finally get someone to talk to about your fears and expectations. When you talk to someone else about your problems sometimes things that you didn't realize you believed might come to the surface, and they may make you realize what they are. Even if this doesn't seem to help with manifestation (because it takes some time, and the kind of manifestation that is mostly seen in 'courses' and books make it appear that if you do a, b & c you will get x result in a matter of y time. And it is not that easy or pleasant.


But I have to disagree that just becoz I sounded foul doesnt mean I was a bad guy in the 1st place when things started goin haywire with my life and my family's too. This is a very telling reaction. I never said you sounded foul- but you did sound angry, and never even thought to think you were a bad guy. And this is the problem with labeling manifestation as "the law of attraction"- it makes people think of what are essentially value judgments, that someone 'bad' will attract 'bad', which is completely whacked. If there is attraction it has to do with emotion, resistance and flow- things that have nothing to do with good or bad.



I was quite good student,well behaved,respected and loved by my seniors nd juniors alike and totally against alcohol,cigarettes which most of the young people find joy in,studied quite a bit of metaphysics since school nd that was my world.I also meditated as such,did my concentration exercises,read books on lives of monks nd saints nd all. Tell me more about this. Did you admire monks and saints, and if you did, what was that about their lives that made you admire them?


So if u say that I was totally angry nd frustrated with my life,it was not.Sorry to say that!I led a quite peaceful spiritual kind of life yet it was me nd my peace loving family who have to endure great pains(financial disturbances,divorces etc) rather than getting positive stuff like a happy,peaceful life. Don't be sorry to share your feelings. Feelings are never wrong, but you did project a sense of anger and frustration- I'm sorry your family is enduring hardship, they probably deserve better.


So if u think u try to be Rhonda Byrne and tell me that everything u create is from urself nd that all hell's breakin loose becoz of deep seated resentment and anger,sorry thats not me!!In fact I even to this day remain calm and help my family members keep their calm when they start to fight among themselves. I have lightly read some of what RByrnes has to say and I think that like most metaphysical stuff, it has become more of a 'literal' interpretation of what the original message was, and that always causes trouble. So no, I don't agree with everything she says (that I've read) but it's not so much the message as to what is conveyed.


I didnt mean to hurt anyone in this forum but I know totally what I am.I have been an active spiritual seeker since I was 12 years of age trying to always grow,take control of my thoughts,learn from the masters about different paths of spirituality and actively try to implement them in my life. I don't think anyone took anything personally, I can't imagine why they would.


If I have become a little angry at situations,wierd situations first occurred then I reacted nd not the opposite. I can dig that, a lot (not all) of my life has been strange and weird, but that's not the important thing- the thing is to look at how you react and why. Self knowledge is always good, not just for manifesting what you want, but in life in general.

I hope you continue participating and maybe someone will say something that makes sense to you and helps you.
:thumbsup:

[ButterflyWoman]

it is not always possible to get exactly what you want, depending on what it is. It is possible to get what you think you deserve, and can possibly achieve- deep deep down.
Hence the need for transformation that goes to a very deep level. The reason that yogis and other mystics can do things like levitate and put themselves into a trance so deep it's like a coma and various other things that seem to defy the rules of reality is because they are not bound by the usual rules of reality, due to their experience and sure understanding that there are no rules, other than the ones we set for ourselves.


If there is attraction it has to do with emotion, resistance and flow- things that have nothing to do with good or bad.
Indeed. And negative emotion is still emotion, and disbelief is still belief, just inverted, and where the emotion and belief are, that's how the energy flows.


a lot (not all) of my life has been strange and weird, but that's not the important thing- the thing is to look at how you react and why. Self knowledge is always good, not just for manifesting what you want, but in life in general.
Indeed. You can't be true to yourself until you know who this "self" creature is and what motivates them and why and all that. Again, all part of the transformation thing.

[IA56]

Sorry for the "goddamn" part ,I actualy wanted to say diehard.lSo how is it possible to get exactly what u want? Affirmations/Commands for days with vigilance?So is there any way to check this subconscious belief system...like whats right nd whats wrong?But I have to disagree that just becoz I sounded foul doesnt mean I was a bad guy in the 1st place when things started goin haywire with my life and my family's too.I was quite good student,well behaved,respected and loved by my seniors nd juniors alike and totally against alcohol,cigarettes which most of the young people find joy in,studied quite a bit of metaphysics since school nd that was my world.I also meditated as such,did my concentration exercises,read books on lives of monks nd saints nd all.So if u say that I was totally angry nd frustrated with my life,it was not.Sorry to say that!I led a quite peaceful spiritual kind of life yet it was me nd my peace loving family who have to endure great pains(financial disturbances,divorces etc) rather than getting positive stuff like a happy,peaceful life.So if u think u try to be Rhonda Byrne and tell me that everything u create is from urself nd that all hell's breakin loose becoz of deep seated resentment and anger,sorry thats not me!!In fact I even to this day remain calm and help my family members keep their calm when they start to fight among themselves.I didnt mean to hurt anyone in this forum but I know totally what I am.I have been an active spiritual seeker since I was 12 years of age trying to always grow,take control of my thoughts,learn from the masters about different paths of spirituality and actively try to implement them in my life.If I have become a little angry at situations,wierd situations first occurred then I reacted nd not the opposite.@phoenix As for who said beliefs r important,Robert Bruce said that for ur kind information.He said it created filters through which the manifestation was truncated accordingly.Astralreek

This part of your writings make me react and remember my life, when I was living just as you...a saint like life...but still bad things happen in my life and I just couldn´t understand, in my case it was that I did not want to take care of the reality as it was, I wanted and I believed that if I only keep myself positiv all is well, and not to think or take care of the "♥♥♥♥" I haven´t dealted with what had happened before, I just like swollowed and like took a big leep over the "♥♥♥♥" and refused to think of it, and went on living my life, just not thinking of anything bad at all...and this was to refuse to see the reality as it is and was...so the bad happenings keep showing up in my life trying to tell me.....for god sake...deal and take care of the ♥♥♥♥...so I had to admit and acknowledge the reality and that nothing vanishes by not thinking or admitting it to have happened or is happening by thinking good thoughts and good feelings...there is a deeper reality to deal with also and take care of...
I hope I will not offend you, I just tell about my life, I do not say this is the case in your life...only try to articulate from my experiences.
Keep up the good work.

Love
ia

[ButterflyWoman]

Yes, IA56 makes a good point. You MUST deal with and own the reality that you have (consciously or unconsciously, intentionally or unintentionally) created, before you can move on. Ignoring what is or refusing to take responsibility (note: responsibility is not blame!) for your own reality while simultaneously trying to change the reality that you think you're not responsible for is a seriously conflict of energy.

[astralreek]

Thanx everybody for ur replies.Feels good really to have practical suggestions.Actually I m the youngest member of the family,and as per my life is considered i am at contentment but my sister's gone wild after a devastating divorce nd my dad had terrible financial problems at present nd in the past.Wish I cud change them but I am the perhaps only sane member of the family tryin to work out my life out amidst all the consoling I have to do everyday to my family.

If there cud be a tweak to this situation it wud really help.I cant manifest money overnight or get my sister a loving husband overnight.My studies r gettin really hampered and I dont know whether I can control things that have gone haywire.

Please give me any suggestions regarding manifestation of a better life.Like I m dealing with these stuff right now but cud there be any metaphysical alternative?

Thanx

Astralreek

[IA56]

WoW Astralreek, what a mess, I can really see myself in you when I grew up...phiiif...
The first thing I must say, non of these are your problems really, but the school part and you must take care of your own life first, so that is your priority numero uno, don´t forget this ever.

Now how can you do any differnce in your folks life, well first thing is to let go of worry, this is so important, I know it is not doable but you have to find a way to find the steady calm place inside of you, this will be priority numero dos....

Next step is to find the nurturing life force what you find in this calmness and steadyness when you breathren it through you...it is not easy to tell you how to find it, but for my own survival I did find it rather early but I did not know about this until rather recently to understand to put in words....I have done this like automaticly but I am aware of it now totally....

And the numero tres step is to KNOW everyone will find own solution to their problems, you only have to find your peace.

I know you will succeed in this, and I am keeping an eye on you and yours too with love.

Love
ia

[astralreek]

Thanx IA56 I will keep workin hard on my life nd try to correct the things that went wrong.