Kundalini Program

[GMAN12]

I ask this question to the moderators of the forum. Have you seen the Kundalini program or caught a glimpse of it yet? I am so very excited for it, but at the same time, my kundalini has just awakened. Would it be good to raise it now for the first time then later on? I don't want you to tell me how it feels, I want that experience solely to myself to blog about later on.

[ButterflyWoman]

No, I haven't seen it.

My advice on Kundalini is that you shouldn't force it. Seriously. If it's meant to happen, it WILL happen, on its own, with or without your direct intervention. Far better to work on healing and growing BEFORE that happens. Build the canals before you release the water from the dam.

[jamboh]

If it's meant to happen, it WILL happen, on its own, with or without your direct intervention.

Are you saying that you think people shouldn't work actively and directly on activating/rasining kundalini? It's not something I'm doing at the moment but I have plans to possibly attempt it one day. If what you said were true, is not the new kundalini programme unecessary/unwise?

[ButterflyWoman]

Are you saying that you think people shouldn't work actively and directly on activating/rasining kundalini?
I'm saying build the canals before you release the water from the dam. :)

A great many people have an extraordinarily bad time of it when they have a full on awakening. Robert did. I did. Many have. I can't speak for Robert, but in my case, I had a lot of issues, and a lot of blockages of all sorts, and when the energy hit, it pretty much destroyed the system. I do mean destroyed. It had to be rebuilt. That was a process that took years.

Transformation is never easy, but preparing the way for it before it starts can facilitate the process.

That's all I'm saying.

[IA56]

I'm saying build the canals before you release the water from the dam. :)

A great many people have an extraordinarily bad time of it when they have a full on awakening. Robert did. I did. Many have. I can't speak for Robert, but in my case, I had a lot of issues, and a lot of blockages of all sorts, and when the energy hit, it pretty much destroyed the system. I do mean destroyed. It had to be rebuilt. That was a process that took years.

Transformation is never easy, but preparing the way for it before it starts can facilitate the process.

That's all I'm saying.

Yes, all should know what can happen before they enter a program, there is no-one els to blame but self. But many do as Robert Bruce did tell, try to sue him for telling about these things, all should take responsibillity and not blame the messanger/teacher.

It is not easy to tell so it will be understood, you are doing a very good and great job BW.

Love

[jamboh]

I'm saying build the canals before you release the water from the dam. :)


Yes this sounds pretty sensible! I presume that Robert has this kind of preliminary training in the programme, and that he considers it safe enough for general release. I have read several older books that warn against any and all kinds of kundalini practice, but from what I've heard RB say about it he seems to advocate direct training to induce/develop it - with lots of safeguards etc, I'm sure. Like I said I am not in a position to actively train for this even I wanted to, however it's something I may approach in the future. Do you have a post/blog where I can read about your kundalini experiences BW?

[ButterflyWoman]

I presume that Robert has this kind of preliminary training in the programme, and that he considers it safe enough for general release.
I'm sure he's got lots of cautions and caveats. He's always been fairly straightforward about the potential dangers. But I haven't seen the program for myself, so I can't say. Maybe ask Robert. :)


Do you have a post/blog where I can read about your kundalini experiences BW?
There are dozens of posts around here that I've written on the topic. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm actually pretty tired of writing about it at this point. :) I mean, I don't mind offering bits of food for thought on the subject, but I'm pretty much over the whole awakening experience now, and have moved on to learning how to function awake. It's not actually as easy as it may sound! (Surprise! You think, "Oh, once I'm awake, it'll be easy to do this or that or the other!" and maybe it will be, once you learn how to navigate and get things done in a completely new environment/worldview/thoughtspace. Honestly, if it's not one thing, it's another...)

EDIT: After going away and thinking about this just a bit, it occurs to me that there are Kundalini movements, risings, etc. which do NOT lead directly to transformation, awakening, etc. It may be this that Robert's program is designed to work with, rather than trying to actually achieve a full-on Kundalini awakening. It does appear that an absolute awakening is quite rare.

[BDeye]

but I'm pretty much over the whole awakening experience now, and have moved on to learning how to function awake. It's not actually as easy as it may sound! (Surprise! You think, "Oh, once I'm awake, it'll be easy to do this or that or the other!" and maybe it will be, once you learn how to navigate and get things done in a completely new environment/worldview/thoughtspace. Honestly, if it's not one thing, it's another...

I'm kinda glad to here this, imagine how boring it would be if the journey ended there.:-)

[jamboh]

There are dozens of posts around here that I've written on the topic. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm actually pretty tired of writing about it at this point. :)

I kind of sensed that! :) so though I'd ask if you had put it all down one place, rarther than get you to type a whole load more. I'll search the forums.


You think, "Oh, once I'm awake, it'll be easy to do this or that or the other!" and maybe it will be, once you learn how to navigate and get things done in a completely new environment/worldview/thoughtspace.

It certainly seems that kundalini is just another beginning - RB has said it's not a do once and you're done thing. I guess it's another one of those "the minute you think you've got it sussed, you're wrong" things!


After going away and thinking about this just a bit, it occurs to me that there are Kundalini movements, risings, etc. which do NOT lead directly to transformation, awakening, etc. It may be this that Robert's program is designed to work with, rather than trying to actually achieve a full-on Kundalini awakening. It does appear that an absolute awakening is quite rare.

From what I have read and heard from RB on the subject he considers a full 'Serpent of fire - uraeus' event to be extemely rare, but the beginnings of kundalini and related symptoms to be more commonplace. However unless I'm mistaken I think robert's programme IS designed to work towards full kundalini rising, which he sees will create a positive impact on the world.

[GMAN12]

I think that over the years, it is getting easier and easier for people to awaken because more people are aware and the vibration is higher. I also think that maybe for the full effect would take many risings as RB said himself. I feel that more people who are awake will be able to awaken others faster than they could 100, 1000, or even a million years ago. I had an awakening, but nothing like a full awakening. I hope to one day have a full kundalini rising within this century.

[ButterflyWoman]

I think that over the years, it is getting easier and easier for people to awaken because more people are aware and the vibration is higher.
It's more likely that it's just easier to find like-minded people on the internet. The internet allows for some extremely small groups of people around the world to find each other, in a way that has never before happened in human history. I really don't think there are more awakened people than there have ever been; they're just slightly easier to spot (and even then, full awakening is rare).

[GMAN12]

True. I think that fully awakened people live in a lucid dream where they can literally do anything. Is that how it is?

[ButterflyWoman]

That's not a bad description. But learning how to manipulate the environment/reality is something that takes a while. Or at least, that's been the case for me. I am lucid pretty much all the time (unless I want to slip out of it and play along with the dream scenario, which I often do because I'm already here, may as well get into it), but precisely how to consistently alter the reality is something I haven't mastered. Awakening is really and truly only the beginning of a different journey. It's definitely not an end to itself. And even awakened, you still have things to do in the material storyline/reality you've created for yourself. At least, I do; I haven't worked out how to change my reality so that I don't have an infinite supply of laundry that needs to be washed.... ;)

[GMAN12]

I feel the same way about the laundry. So what if someone finishes their storyline, but asks if they fulfill another mission while still living on earth or atleast having a little fun before going back? I've heard of people dying at will at very old ages. Some in the bible I've read lived up to 900 years. It was amazing.

[ButterflyWoman]

I feel the same way about the laundry.
I did actually mean literal laundry. :) But it works really well as a metaphor, too.


So what if someone finishes their storyline, but asks if they fulfill another mission while still living on earth or atleast having a little fun before going back?
No idea, but you assume that there is some central authority you can ask things of. I can no longer see or experience anything of that sort. I'm not saying that's not a valid experience, but it's certainly not a universal one. As far as I can see, Creation is the Creator, and it is Self-Creating. That is, WE are the authority (because the illusion that we are separate beings at all is an illusion). We ARE creation, we ARE the Creator.

But I may be misunderstanding what you're asking. Still, that was a pretty eloquent rant, and I'm gonna leave it. :)

[GMAN12]

I like your post! Also I meant literal laundry too. I got tons of clothing needed to wash and dry all day long. I never thought of it that way. I always forget we are all one. I guess another reason why black magic comes back to you is because you are casting it on yourself. The white magic also comes back to you because you helped yourself out. I have lots of unlearning to do!

[GMAN12]

It doesn't make sense to me that if I say I am awakened, I really am not, but me saying it a thousand times, I am a bit more awakened. Me saying it a million times, I will be awakened..... I got a strange feeling typing that.

[ButterflyWoman]

Also I meant literal laundry too.
:D There's a famous Zen saying: Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

For my life, it's more like "do laundry, cook meals". :) Also, "drive people to train stations, schools, and similar locations" but that's not as snappy, yanno?


I have lots of unlearning to do!
We all do. This is really what it's about. The awakening process is subtractive, in that you lose your beliefs (in a good way!), your attachments to your ideas and thoughts, all of that. It's usually a pretty long process, because the unwinding of a complex personality is not something that normally can be done in one fell swoop (apparently, it does occasionally happen that way, but I have never seen it, nor have I experienced it, so it remains hearsay ;)). What happens is all those layers of wrappings and trappings of the I-me-mine personality you think of as your identity get stripped away, and the more that happens, the more you can see what you truly are.

[ButterflyWoman]

It doesn't make sense to me that if I say I am awakened, I really am not, but me saying it a thousand times, I am a bit more awakened. Me saying it a million times, I will be awakened..... I got a strange feeling typing that.
"You" can't actually be awakened. Awareness becomes aware of Itself, through you. You are a vessel, a shell, a character in a very complex soap opera, and a figment of Creation's imagination.

It's also not the case that if you say you're awakened it means you're not. That's a bit of a misnomer. What's more accurate is to say that usually when you THINK you're awake, you find out that you're still dreaming, at least sometimes. It's an ongoing process. It doesn't generally happen instantly, or even permanently. Lots of times people wake up a bit and then fall back asleep (just like lucid dreaming, really), or wake up for a little while and then doze off again for a while, and when you do wake up, it's a process, just like waking up from literal sleep. But, truth is, it's almost impossible to know for certain when and if you are actually fully awake. I can't say that I am. I am mostly, and I am most of the time, but who knows? Could be another of Maya's veils. I did get a period of many, many signs and messages and understandings that I'm awake enough (for what, I don't know) and that it's time to go on with the business of BEING awake, but, again, could be an illusion.

The good thing is that you get to where you know it doesn't really matter. It just is what it is, and will be what it will be, and there's nothing to be done about it one way or the other, so you just let the river take you where it will and try to enjoy the scenery along the way, and take your cues from the flow of the river.

Awakening is just one of the infinite games that Consciousness plays with Itself. It's not better or worse than any other game, just more uncommon.

So, yeah, whatever. :) (A few years ago, I would never, ever have believed I'd say that and mean it. I used to be the most uptight, fearful, wannabe-controlfreak you can possibly imagine. And now I'm just like, yeah, whatever, just going where the flow takes me, it's all good... I admit, I like it better this way. Much less stressful.)

Honestly, I don't talk about this stuff that much any more, because people are often confused by it. It comes across all weirdly guruspeak and stuff, and people have this idea that being awake means something amazingly spiritually superior or something. I don't actually think that it is, though. It is DIFFERENT, to be sure. It is strange, compared to the usual variety of life experiences. But I don't think it's "better", really, I mean, it's just an experience, and it's one that Consciousness has had before (though it's always different because the vessels are different), so it's not even unique. I'm just this weird woman from a dysfunctional family and who has had mystical and metaphysical experiences all her life, and now lives happily in the suburbs with some kids and a husband and a cat, you know? I'm still me. I don't think I'm superior to anyone else, just really, really different from most of them.

[GMAN12]

I feel different from everyone around me, but the experiences I heard about other family members makes me feel right at home :)

[IA56]

"You" can't actually be awakened. Awareness becomes aware of Itself, through you. You are a vessel, a shell, a character in a very complex soap opera, and a figment of Creation's imagination.

It's also not the case that if you say you're awakened it means you're not. That's a bit of a misnomer. What's more accurate is to say that usually when you THINK you're awake, you find out that you're still dreaming, at least sometimes. It's an ongoing process. It doesn't generally happen instantly, or even permanently. Lots of times people wake up a bit and then fall back asleep (just like lucid dreaming, really), or wake up for a little while and then doze off again for a while, and when you do wake up, it's a process, just like waking up from literal sleep. But, truth is, it's almost impossible to know for certain when and if you are actually fully awake. I can't say that I am. I am mostly, and I am most of the time, but who knows? Could be another of Maya's veils. I did get a period of many, many signs and messages and understandings that I'm awake enough (for what, I don't know) and that it's time to go on with the business of BEING awake, but, again, could be an illusion.

The good thing is that you get to where you know it doesn't really matter. It just is what it is, and will be what it will be, and there's nothing to be done about it one way or the other, so you just let the river take you where it will and try to enjoy the scenery along the way, and take your cues from the flow of the river.

Awakening is just one of the infinite games that Consciousness plays with Itself. It's not better or worse than any other game, just more uncommon.

So, yeah, whatever. :) (A few years ago, I would never, ever have believed I'd say that and mean it. I used to be the most uptight, fearful, wannabe-controlfreak you can possibly imagine. And now I'm just like, yeah, whatever, just going where the flow takes me, it's all good... I admit, I like it better this way. Much less stressful.)

Honestly, I don't talk about this stuff that much any more, because people are often confused by it. It comes across all weirdly guruspeak and stuff, and people have this idea that being awake means something amazingly spiritually superior or something. I don't actually think that it is, though. It is DIFFERENT, to be sure. It is strange, compared to the usual variety of life experiences. But I don't think it's "better", really, I mean, it's just an experience, and it's one that Consciousness has had before (though it's always different because the vessels are different), so it's not even unique. I'm just this weird woman from a dysfunctional family and who has had mystical and metaphysical experiences all her life, and now lives happily in the suburbs with some kids and a husband and a cat, you know? I'm still me. I don't think I'm superior to anyone else, just really, really different from most of them.

:thumbsup:

BW, you do say it very well, might add that the "suffering" has ended when seeing through it for what it is and was....to also understand that how awful and horrible it is, I do know, everyone is doing theire best what they are able too, many time´s it does not feel or seam that way, but if you think your self in total chaos, and you try to articulate life from there, it will be very hard, so I can see today from what "chaos" people are in, still, and from this I understand theire expression and behavings...you can´t hate anyone when you know everyone is doing their best all the time, even they are hitting you or spitting on you, they do their best to cope in life....I know this do not make so much sense, and it is not easy to express every level, the "lower" levels are most difficult to cope with...and as "higher" up in layers you get more easy it get´s because it will be more calmer and more nicer and more kinder....

Keep up the good work folks :grouphug:

Love
ia

[BDeye]

You got a way of saying things ButterflyWoman, makes me smile and think.


. But learning how to manipulate the environment/reality is something that takes a while. Or at least, that's been the case for me. I am lucid pretty much all the time (unless I want to slip out of it and play along with the dream scenario, which I often do because I'm already here, may as well get into it), but precisely how to consistently alter the reality is something I haven't mastered.

On this note, I don't reckon I'm awakened and wouldn't say if I was;). I do however (have for most of my life), hear and feel the universe talking to me, through events and occurrences (still waiting for a big voice in the sky:D). Sometimes I "hear" this universe better than others, sometimes I don't want to listen (petulant child that I am).

Changing the universe or my reality can sometimes work surprisingly well. I often find I have to position myself in the path of least resistance to effect the changes, but they generally happen. Sometimes just a small request (bordering on subconscious) is needed. The universe gives me a thump here an there, reckon I deserve it sometimes. I do feel though a love in everything it does (sentimental garbage?).

[Eyeswideopen]

Butterfly Woman, I don't think when you talk about your experience is confusing and I certainly don't think it's weird. I actually find you very interesting and would love to know more in depth stories. Perhaps the audience was way back, now there are so many people looking to wake up, evolve. Particularly this forum as we are here learning about alsorts of things including awakening.

I appreciate that you may not want to go into detail but personally I enjoy your posts.

[ButterflyWoman]

Thanks. :) I can answer specific questions if you have them. I just don't have a lot of drive to write out stuff on the fly, if you know what I mean. If I think someone really wants to know something specific, I'm not adverse to sharing it. ;)

As for saying you're awake, well... I used to say I would never call myself "enlightened" and I never have. I don't even know what "enlightened" is supposed to mean. People have all kinds of weird ideas about it. Oh, once you're enlightened you float on a lotus with your chakras spewing out a rainbow spectrum of love and flowers and unicorns, tra la! So I don't say that, I would never.

But being awake... to me it's just being lucid in a dream. Hardly anyone has lucid dreams on a regular basis (yes, people who hang around HERE do, but this is a very minority interest site!), and hardly anyone becomes lucid in the reality-dream. Every time I test it, to see if I'm still dreaming, I find that I am, I find that I know what's going on, that I know who and what I am, and so forth. Yeah, I let go a lot of the time and just slip into the dream and go with it, because as far as I can tell, that's the purpose of being here: Consciousness is playing games with Itself. So I play because, well, I'm designed to be a character in the game. But I know I AM a character, I know I'm a bundle of experiences that form a network of thoughts, memories, beliefs, etc. that create a specific, unique point of view through which Consciousness is experiencing this, through which Consciousness is dreaming. I'm a figment of God's imagination, and I know it. My reality is shaped by the unique point of view that is this material mind/self, that's the way the game is designed. So I just be it, and Consciousness gets to continue with whatever Consciousness is doing (growing? developing? playing? dreaming? all of the above?). That's what I mean when I say "awake". I mean "lucid within the reality-dream". I don't mean mystically enlightened and surrounded by lotus blossoms and choirs of angels or whatever other silly thing people might imagine.

In fact, every single time I've had a big OMG type breakthrough, I've always been surprised by how non-eventful it all is. Chop wood, carry water, you know? Only I know that I am just Consciousness dreaming that I'm me, chopping wood and carrying water. Or, in my case, doing laundry and cooking meals. :)

It's still extraordinary, of course. Lucid dreams ARE. ;)

[BDeye]

:thumbsup:

[BDeye]

On a Kundalini note, more the physical side. I went through a period a few months back where my brow and base were quite active, but this seems to have shifted to my heart center. Any insight into what this means?. A step back or sideways maybe?. This is more of a physical vibrations, energy work type of question. Been getting flying dreams again, been a while. Any insight would be most welcome, not life or death though, just curious.

[ButterflyWoman]

On a Kundalini note, more the physical side. I went through a period a few months back where my brow and base were quite active, but this seems to have shifted to my heart center. Any insight into what this means?
*shrug* Just areas that need energetic attention, I would guess. It moves around and does some work here, and then moves there, and then backs off a while, then moves in over here, over there, and so on. Not unlike a sculptor, really.

You know, I used to get flying dreams ALL the time when I was a kid. I mean really, really regularly. For me, they were about being able to do something unusual, something special. In many of them, I'd fly up to my mother to show her I was flying and she'd be busy doing something else and refuse to even turn around to see what I wanted, and she never saw me flying. When I write that down, it is so incredibly... poignant. And obvious, too. (And the "something special" I could do was see, think, perceive, etc., in ways nobody else seemed to do. Partly I suspect it had to do with my innate mysticism. Partly, I was a lot smarter than my mother, whose strong suit was never thinking or reasoning, and that's not an insult, it's just an observation.)

I suspect dreaming has different subtle meanings for others, but it always seems to represent doing something unusual, or having unusual abilities, or maybe just wanting those things. It really does depend on the person; dreams are very personal.

[BDeye]

Cool, thank you.:)

[Archimedes]

Does anyone have any updates on the release date of the Kundalini program and if it will have an initial special offer price?

[GMAN12]

Robert said at the end of this month, but didn't specify a price as of yet.

[Archimedes]

Thanks for the info GMAN12

[GMAN12]

I had also asked the same question to Robert Bruce. You are welcome!