Do we outgrow/evolve beyond astral projection??

[sono2]

For around 2 years now I have not been able to project into the astral the way I used to do on a regular basis. But I do find I have an almost constant stream of images as soon as I close my eyes. They seem to be random, as I have little control over what & where I see. Over the past few weeks it has become ever more intense, especially as I have been almost blind in my right eye (corneal laceration, which has now largely recovered).

I find the process so "entertaining" that I have stopped reading & prefer to relax with my eyes closed to watch the "show"

The images start out as fuzzy lights on a dark background, then become clearer until they are as detailed as on a tv screen (with good reception!) Often I see human-like beings, busy at some puzzling tasks, & the other day a non-human woman I was looking at seemed to sense my gaze, as she turned & looked straight into my eyes - I apologised for intruding & opened my eyes.

Then there are the "sketches", which start out as random fine, black lines over a white surface, then zoom in or out, so that a charcoal sketch appears; I wish I could reproduce them as they are really amazingly beautiful but my drawing skills are seriously lacking.

I have also met a Guru type person, who explained that we no longer need to use the astral bodies or senses after a certain point, as we project/phase mentally. I've read the Robert Bruce can do both; yet I miss AP as it was such a euphoric state.

From various posts at this forum I gather that others have had the same experience of "losing" their AP "ability". Perhaps we should not cling to that stage - does anyone have any insights into this?

[ButterflyWoman]

I have outgown or left behind SO many "metaphysical experiences" now. I miss some of them. I could re-create any of them, and sometimes I do, but for the most part, they seem like nothing but amusements to me now, and not the profound and oh-so-meaningful experiences they once were.

For me, this has just been a normal progression. I didn't outgrow in the sense of disdain or shunning. I just look at these phenomena and think "been there, done that, part of the illusion".

[Johnthelegoman]

Flutterby

How old where ou when you got into meditation and the metalhysical like obe and the sort.

How long did it take you to outgrow those experiences and how long have you been practicig if uou dont mind me asking of course

[wstein]

Some abilities are outgrown and some are integrated. Some just sit idle as we don't need their services in our current way of life.

I rarely go OBE just for the heck of it any more, but still once in a while do it to go look at something specific that I am not getting a good view of from 'afar'.

Part of the natural progression of growth is to find new and improved tools.

[ButterflyWoman]

How old where ou when you got into meditation and the metalhysical like obe and the sort.
Hard to say. I had my first mystical experience when I was about five, and I practiced what I now know to be meditative prayer from a very early age. So I honestly can't answer that question.


How long did it take you to outgrow those experiences and how long have you been practicig if uou dont mind me asking of course
I don't know. I don't remember when the first realisation was that I was kind of over it. Fairly recently, I guess, like in the last ten years or so (I'm 48 now).

[CFTraveler]

Nice thread.

[Korpo]

Hello, sono2.


For around 2 years now I have not been able to project into the astral the way I used to do on a regular basis. But I do find I have an almost constant stream of images as soon as I close my eyes. They seem to be random, as I have little control over what & where I see. Over the past few weeks it has become ever more intense, especially as I have been almost blind in my right eye (corneal laceration, which has now largely recovered).

I remember this happening during meditation. I also had no control over these. They would speed past, slow down, and I could even look at the stream from the side, as if one would sometimes see in visual arts renderings of how a movie is composed of single images.


I find the process so "entertaining" that I have stopped reading & prefer to relax with my eyes closed to watch the "show"

That is very nice. :)


The images start out as fuzzy lights on a dark background, then become clearer until they are as detailed as on a tv screen (with good reception!) Often I see human-like beings, busy at some puzzling tasks, & the other day a non-human woman I was looking at seemed to sense my gaze, as she turned & looked straight into my eyes - I apologised for intruding & opened my eyes.

This sounds a lot like phasing. Both Monroe and Bruce Moen varied their technique at some point. Try asking for a change of scene or being taken somewhere where you are needed.


Then there are the "sketches", which start out as random fine, black lines over a white surface, then zoom in or out, so that a charcoal sketch appears; I wish I could reproduce them as they are really amazingly beautiful but my drawing skills are seriously lacking.

This could also be you tapping into the human creative potential. Whole pieces exist there, ready to be rendered. When you see them being drawn, you're not only seeing the piece itself, but the process of it being created. I think Kurt called that a "process configuration" in "Music and the Soul" - an energy shape that contains that both the result and the process of creating it, step by step. If this is happening, it might denote that your inner sense of perception has come online more strongly.

Try slowing these down, or ask for repeats of sequences. Try to see the same one when closing your eyes again. Ask consciously invisible helpers to aid you in developing this. Then try to replicate the process in physical reality. This can be a great boost to any creative ability you possess or try to cultivate.

(Ah, I see I misread your description a bit. Still, you could try asking for having this experience I described. It would deepen your use of the perception sense considerably.)


I have also met a Guru type person, who explained that we no longer need to use the astral bodies or senses after a certain point, as we project/phase mentally. I've read the Robert Bruce can do both; yet I miss AP as it was such a euphoric state.

Euphoria as an experience lessens when you become more accomodated to an experience. It is the great bliss of adapting to something new that creates it. Recreating astral experiences would not bring it back, I'd think. The way is always forward.

The thing is that as you cultivate new skills it may seem like you are back on "square one" in many regards, below the levels you've grown accustomed to. You could see it as if it were like learning a new, more advanced instrument. You may not be as proficient on the piano as on a simple flute, but in the end the experience you have will be richer, more varied, complex and expressive.


From various posts at this forum I gather that others have had the same experience of "losing" their AP "ability". Perhaps we should not cling to that stage - does anyone have any insights into this?

There are several ways of "losing" one's ability. One possible way is simply to open us up to more important explorations. If these experiences come up for you now, there's a good chance they are relevant to what you need to learn. So, have fun exploring them.

[dreaming90]

Yes, you outgrow many things when it comes to spiritual growth. Even the vibrational state changes-- the vibes either become smoother or disappear altogether, and the whole thing has a more "natural" feel to it. Robert Monroe, in his last book, states that going OBE became boring for him, almost like falling asleep.

I wonder if you look "beyond" the colors and shapes, and sort of mentally put your focus beyond them, if you could simply phase into the astral that way. You've probably just broken down the veil between Here and There to some extent.

[susan]

Thank you both Korpo and dreaming 90 .
This isn't, my thread but I've been apprehensive for a while trying to decide should I still try to raise energy for an OBE (which is hard work ) or trust what I 'm getting through mental projection ( and to be honest more beautiful in colours and sound)

[CFTraveler]

I think raising energy is recommendable in all aspects of life- I do it before a workout, or just for no reason. It's just a pleasant activity and it helps with backaches, at least in my case.

[wstein]

This isn't, my thread but I've been apprehensive for a while trying to decide should I still try to raise energy for an OBE (which is hard work ) or trust what I 'm getting through mental projection ( and to be honest more beautiful in colours and sound) Clarity and fullness of perception increase greatly in mental projection with more energy (full multisensory vistas).

[IA56]

I think raising energy is recommendable in all aspects of life- I do it before a workout, or just for no reason. It's just a pleasant activity and it helps with backaches, at least in my case. Exact my sentiments too :-)--raising energy and wrapping is Always working for me if I feel pain and I do it often.

[Aunt Clair]

Projection is never truly outgrown or unnecessary to complete the holistic development of the magickian and their human energy body.. In the predictable continuum of development stages occur as Herman Hesse wrote in his novel Siddhartha;

"Everything changes, nothing remains the same, everything returns."

The body develops exhausting the energy available and projection seems impossible but Kaballah says that the child never forgets how to fly home each night. We become less aware of our dreamstate in times of stress and in times of wonder, too. Life is a distraction. During a kundalini event though the body will entertain visions and lessons and projections.

The magickian may tire and become bored with the RTZ and begin to explore other forms of projection from the body and other realms afforded by these other aspects;

"All bodies becomes spiritual" and "the crow's young ones become doves"; the stones multiply in clusters of four and project subtle energy body aspects including higher and higher forms of angels;



*Supernals..Emerald....Air.....Empress............ .ArchAngel........................................ ......... All realms
*Supernals .White........Air....CloudStone........ Lunar Angel............................................. . Initatic Realms
*Supernals..Chartreuse.Air....HeavenStone ......HS/GA.............Angel with Magickian's Face....Elohim Realms
*Supernals..Aqua.........Air....MotherStone....... Matriarch............................... ..................Forest of Souls

*Head.........Silver........Akasha................ ......Lunar Kerubim........................................... Akashic Records
*Head.........Sapphire...Water.................... ....Death Angel............................................. .Afterlife Realms
*Head.........Indigo.......Water.MoonStone ......Guardian Angel. Eagle Winged.......................RTZ, Etheric, Astral
*Head.........Purple.......Water.UniverseStone...U niversal Mind...........................................Uni versal Mind

*Chest........Golden......Fire.................... ......Solar Kerubim........................................... ..Gates of Death, Elohim
*Chest........Topaz.......Fire.................... ......Solar Angel............................................. ...Initiatic Realms
*Chest........Yellow ......Fire...SunStone .........Higher Self........Lion Maned Aura...................Lower Planes, Higher Planes
*Chest........Amber.......Fire...StarStone........ ..Lower Self........Serpent Tail at Small of Back..Totemic Plane

*Belly..........Ruby........Earth..Emperor........ ..ArchDemon....................................... ..........Rtz and all Lower Realms
*Belly..........Black.......Earth...HelStone...... ...Beast............................ ...........................Lowest Hels soul rescue
*Belly..........Red.........Earth...EarthStone.... ..Guardian Demon.Bull Faced Minotaur...............Lower Planes and Hels
*Belly..........Rose........Earth...Father........ ....Patriarch..................................... ..............Forest of Souls

Rationale to persevere with projection includes but is not limited to;
exploration of the cosmology
attunements
initiations
communication with Mahatma
lessons
recall of lessons
angelic ascension
shamynic projection for healing and exorcism
enhanced development of consciousness
development of human energy body
development of clairient abilities

[IA56]

Thank you Aunt Clair, this is very helpful.

[Sinera]

Seems my Higher Self has outgrown me now out of it. I do not even get near any experience now for weeks despite my desperate attempts. I do not even remember my dreams (or get some sense of tiny bits I do remember) anymore. It's annoying since I have planned to do so many things and are kept from it somehow. I've tried thousand methods. Nothing works. Maybe I need to drop it entirely for a while. Sometimes I am so fed up with hoping and trying every night.

[Korpo]

What had you planned?

[CFTraveler]

It's annoying since I have planned to do so many things and are kept from it somehow. I've tried thousand methods. Nothing works. Maybe I need to drop it entirely for a while. Sometimes I am so fed up with hoping and trying every night.
You should quit trying, only because repeated attempts with little success program you to fail. Continue meditating until the point where you are in an altered state and just 'watch tv', and don't try to do anything for at least a month, and reevaluate your wants.
I'm just sayin'.

[Sinera]

What had you planned?
Too much maybe. :wink:

Go inside the Temple of Healing (instead of only before it) again. Go to Maya Hara (the beautiful Island) again. Meet my Higher Self. Go back to that library where I once was. Do retrievals. Do healings. Meet my guides again and find out more about them. Continue my past life research and get more data. Continue my card validation attempt (different methods). Continue with my clairaudient strategy. And so on, and so on. It's useless planning if I cannot get into the trance state. I wish I could go out every night.


You should quit trying, only because repeated attempts with little success program you to fail. Continue meditating until the point where you are in an altered state and just 'watch tv', and don't try to do anything for at least a month, and reevaluate your wants.
I have altered between the wants every 2-3 nights, mostly for variation purpose but also since I already suspected it might be the wrong intent that would hinder me from getting into the state and sth else would motivate my subconscious more. As you might remember, I cannot project directly so I am always on a kind of game of luck anyway. I had a 'kind of' (or almost) direct projection method with the timer method recently. But it now fails me, too. I used to have my exits maybe 2 times per week or so until a while ago. (Not all yielded reasonable results, of course). Maybe I'm too eager. But honestly, I think I cannot change this so fast. I just WANT these experiences (and 'success') so much. Seems I've become an AP junkie.
:mrgreen:

[Korpo]

Do you have a copy of "The Multidimensional Human," Volgerle?

[Sinera]

Do you have a copy of "The Multidimensional Human," Volgerle?
Yes.

[sono2]

Apparently there is a form of "soul dreaming" that is "higher" than normal astral dreams, & which is seldom remembered on awakening due to the huge difference in the quality of the vibrations. This is according to what I have learned from the book "Merging with Siva"

[Korpo]

Volgerle, I would then recommend you the chapters "Light on the Path" and "Having a Mission in Otherwhere" for re-reading. They could be of help. :)

[Korpo]

Apparently there is a form of "soul dreaming" that is "higher" than normal astral dreams, & which is seldom remembered on awakening due to the huge difference in the quality of the vibrations. This is according to what I have learned from the book "Merging with Siva"

Hello, sono2.

Which levels can be recalled depends on your energy body development, according to Kurt.

He discerns four levels of recall - waking, dream sleep, dreamless sleep and samadhi/ecstasy. (He posted something regarding this on AD but I cannot find it anymore.) According to Kurt (and the theosophic teachings he references) the baseline can shift - that means if you move one energy body up in development, dream sleep, dreamless sleep and samadhi/ecstasy shift.

So, your dreams would now rather regularly involve features of this accessible higher body, but also more rarely memories from your dreamless sleep phase (the next higher energy body). Samadhi in this scheme is access to an experience so high in your own personal frame of understanding that you cannot render it into anything except into a feeling of bliss and ecstasy without understanding what happened.

All these categories shift during the course of your development. So, if we follow the theosophic scheme of things, astral experiences are our dreams, lower mental plane experiences are part of our dreamless sleep and causal body experiences would be samadhi. But if you move to emphasizing the mental body more, a shift can occur where those soul/causal level experiences come through at times.

So, I would agree with the point the book you reference is making for the general case. I would however add that as the vibration of the whole being increases due to following the spiritual path, it is possible to more often access this vibration and bring elements of it through. Recall gets better the less vibrational difference there is.

(To make it more clear: I'm not referring to any techniques that profess to "raise your vibration." I'm referring to changes occurring to your energetic being during the whole process of trying to develop spiritually. A change to the baseline of your consciousness altogether. Then this recall becomes more feasible.

Furthermore, this process has stages - the theosophists describe these stages as energy bodies. The process of developing these stages is (due to various reasons) not fully linear, but still leaps in development and progress can be observed, especially in hindsight. What Kurt explained about the four stages of recall - waking, dream sleep, dreamless sleep and samadhi maps these stages to the experiences one will have before and after such a leap occurs.)

[Korpo]

I found it:


Annie Besant, a theosophist, has an interesting interpretation of the four stages of consciousness described in the yoga tradition. These states are: waking consciousness, dreaming consciousness, dreamless sleep, and samadhi (bliss). She says that for most people, waking consciousness corresponds to the physical plane, dreaming to the astral, dreamless sleep to the mental (technically the lower mental plane), and samadhi to the causal (technically the upper mental plane, not a causal plane). I mention this because the dreamless sleep you experience after falling asleep in your dream is probably the state of consciousness connected to the mental plane and body.

For someone who is fully lucid on the astral plane, that becomes waking consciousness, the mental plane becomes dreaming consciousness, the causal level becomes dreamless sleep, and the buddhic plane becomes samadhi.(from: http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?9325-Something-that-s-been-happening-to-me-a-lot)

[IA56]

For around 2 years now I have not been able to project into the astral the way I used to do on a regular basis. But I do find I have an almost constant stream of images as soon as I close my eyes. They seem to be random, as I have little control over what & where I see. Over the past few weeks it has become ever more intense, especially as I have been almost blind in my right eye (corneal laceration, which has now largely recovered).

I find the process so "entertaining" that I have stopped reading & prefer to relax with my eyes closed to watch the "show"

The images start out as fuzzy lights on a dark background, then become clearer until they are as detailed as on a tv screen (with good reception!) Often I see human-like beings, busy at some puzzling tasks, & the other day a non-human woman I was looking at seemed to sense my gaze, as she turned & looked straight into my eyes - I apologised for intruding & opened my eyes.

Then there are the "sketches", which start out as random fine, black lines over a white surface, then zoom in or out, so that a charcoal sketch appears; I wish I could reproduce them as they are really amazingly beautiful but my drawing skills are seriously lacking.

I have also met a Guru type person, who explained that we no longer need to use the astral bodies or senses after a certain point, as we project/phase mentally. I've read the Robert Bruce can do both; yet I miss AP as it was such a euphoric state.

From various posts at this forum I gather that others have had the same experience of "losing" their AP "ability". Perhaps we should not cling to that stage - does anyone have any insights into this?
WoW..this makes sense...not to cling to that stage...thank´s

[Aunt Clair]

WoW..this makes sense...not to cling to that stage...thank´s

I feel confident that the mystic magickian develops the body the energy body the mind the soul and the spirit concurrently and that there are certainly stages of chaos and balance within this process. Chaos affords dynamic growth.Balance affords harmony and peace. The aspirant requires both and must rest and sleep and strive and wonder within various levels. Never abandon your practice merely increase the energy work , the mindfulness and the trance state afforded by sleep and meditation and the next level will be evident and it will be facilitated.

If one can not see visions in meditation, still persevere and gather peace.
If one can not project at will , still persevere and advance one's energy work and stretching via yoga and pilates et cetera.
If one can not recall dreams, maintain the journal with the feelings and questions one is currently exploring.
And seek the company of mystical and magickal peers online in forums but most especially in circle locally.

[IA56]

I feel confident that the mystic magickian develops the body the energy body the mind the soul and the spirit concurrently and that there are certainly stages of chaos and balance within this process. Chaos affords dynamic growth.Balance affords harmony and peace. The aspirant requires both and must rest and sleep and strive and wonder within various levels. Never abandon your practice merely increase the energy work , the mindfulness and the trance state afforded by sleep and meditation and the next level will be evident and it will be facilitated.

If one can not see visions in meditation, still persevere and gather peace.
If one can not project at will , still persevere and advance one's energy work and stretching via yoga and pilates et cetera.
If one can not recall dreams, maintain the journal with the feelings and questions one is currently exploring.
And seek the company of mystical and magickal peers online in forums but most especially in circle locally.

I hope it is okay to respond this way if not please remove or delete my Writing.....The state of mind or what it is called when you feel Everything happening at the same time...the past the now and the future....I have had this states my whole Life and from very early age...this chaos what is is when you can not understand or logde and no-one to ask or to get help or support....so recently this state I am able to understand and to digest to knowledge...so huge huge healing and cleansing process has taken Place....I will not go to detail.....but for the first time I could understand the past...and what to do in the now...to get the future I want and what I am titled to have....and for the first time I understand why my Life has been such a struggle....all the happenings what I did not understand but has restored in me...as bound knowledge.....and now when there is enough support to let go and enough love to support and I know I will be understood in right way...I could let go and al last dare to face my self without any shame or guilt...and yes ...energy work...and meditation is one of the pillars to get enough courage and strength to sweep to the bottom of my self....Thank you All....:grouphug:...With pure Love//ia

[MaryAnn]

To the OP about the dry spell. I think dry spells are normal. I remember Monroe went for months sometimes when nothing happened. I think sometimes integration time is needed and we may not even realize that we are integrating, but we are. Sometimes best to go concentrate on more grounded things and come back later.
MA