Is faith really neccesary?

[josh437781]

Is faith or a belief that a manifestation will occour required for success, or is uncertainty and a mere absence of limiting beliefs good enough?

[PauliEffect]

no

[josh437781]

Can you explain why it isn't?

[DarkChylde]

Is faith or a belief that a manifestation will occour required for success, or is uncertainty and a mere absence of limiting beliefs good enough?

what a good question josh :thumbsup:
i'll be keeping an eye out on this thread

[ButterflyWoman]

Stuff manifests in my reality all the time without my having invested any energy in it at all. In fact, I generally feel that "belief" is more of a hinderence than a help. "Belief" is a kind of attachment, and the more attached you are, the less reality can flow, move, and change.

[Dreamweaver]

Faith is an act of informed hope. In other words, hope has a quality of innocence that has not been tried by the opposition of circumstance. Faith is what we do despite well worn experience of disappointment. We decide to step into the unknown on principle. Faith is absolutely necessary because it is THE skill that overcomes doubt. Believe it will be true, act as if it is, word yourself accordingly, knowing that Creative Force receives the message of this intent.

[MysterSynIcysm]

Truth is rather alot more convincing when it happens independent of belief. Doubt is awfully useful because what stands true after ur barrage of doubt gains rather a lot more credibility. A good argument is perfectly capable of standing up for itself. The more faith and emotional binding an idea needs in order to manifest, the more imagined it is likely to be

[MysterSynIcysm]

Damn I'm detecting a two sided misinterpretation thing lurking about. The emotional binding that usually needs the questioning is when it's from an external force. Someone else is trying to convince u, And if ur name aint Vince, then their use of emotion binding is questionable. The other side of the emotion force is the inner conviction bit, like when u can see something is wrong, often of the nature of a perceived injustice. But the nature of emotion here represents an internal imbalance to provide motivation to figure out how to right the perceived wrong. The inner one is linked more to the notion of self volition and personal growth. The external one to servitude and personal decay. But even tho an inner conviction has strong force, u must temper that force with argument to others delivered in a non emotionally binding manner, to do otherwise is to seek control over others, which ought to be discouraged.
Truth is Truth can be a bit tricky like that some times.

[josh437781]

Damn I'm detecting a two sided misinterpretation thing lurking about. The emotional binding that usually needs the questioning is when it's from an external force. Someone else is trying to convince u, And if ur name aint Vince, then their use of emotion binding is questionable. The other side of the emotion force is the inner conviction bit, like when u can see something is wrong, often of the nature of a perceived injustice. But the nature of emotion here represents an internal imbalance to provide motivation to figure out how to right the perceived wrong. The inner one is linked more to the notion of self volition and personal growth. The external one to servitude and personal decay. But even tho an inner conviction has strong force, u must temper that force with argument to others delivered in a non emotionally binding manner, to do otherwise is to seek control over others, which ought to be discouraged.
Truth is Truth can be a bit tricky like that some times.

Thanks. That helps a bit.

[eyeoneblack]

I'm at a loss Mystersynicysm to see how your statement relates to faith. I don't argue your thoughts but, can you bring them full circle to a statement of faith as fruit of the spirit, and faith as a (unnecessary) problem of logic?

For me I go with:


Faith is an act of informed hope. In other words, hope has a quality of innocence that has not been tried by the opposition of circumstance. Faith is what we do despite well worn experience of disappointment. We decide to step into the unknown on principle. Faith is absolutely necessary because it is THE skill that overcomes doubt. Believe it will be true, act as if it is, word yourself accordingly, knowing that Creative Force receives the message of this intent.

[MysterSynIcysm]

I'm sorry for ur loss eye1black, I hope u can find again soon. I can only hope however as total faith would involve 100 percent accurate clairvoyancy, and despite all hope Im yet to attain that. Perhaps I just need a little more of this faith stuff I've heard so much about. Certainly if I had total faith I would indeed have always accurate clairvoyancy. Actually then again I do have total faith and any discrepancies are the things I'll choose not to have faith in. Therefore my absolute power that I have total faith in will be my manifest reality, and any evidence that challenges my absolute power I'll just choose to have no faith in. Consequently anything that challenges my sense of absolute power simply won't manifest as reality to me. Problem solvered :-). Now all I got to do is raise a bit of faithful fervour (try saying "faithful fervour" real fast heaps of times :wacky1:) in others so they too can share in my manifest reality, and don't you dare doubt me, as I foresee terrible things happening to u. U'd best bow down before me and my absolute power because only then do i foresee good things happening to u. U'd best have faith in that!:evil:
Full circle u say, well lets end by quoting my beginning then i guess

Truth is rather alot more convincing when it happens independent of belief. Doubt is awfully useful because what stands true after ur barrage of doubt gains rather a lot more credibility. A good argument is perfectly capable of standing up for itself. The more faith and emotional binding an idea needs in order to manifest, the more imagined it is likely to be
Such is the nature of faith and how we come to accept the reality that manifests for us.

[eyeoneblack]

Now all I got to do is raise a bit of faithful fervor.... in others so they too can share in my manifest reality, and don't you dare doubt me, as I foresee terrible things happening to u. U'd best bow down before me and my absolute power because only then do i foresee good things happening to u. U'd best have faith in that!:evil:

What a great laugh to start the morning :-D. I think we're going to get along fine, MYster!

[Yoda909]

Faith and clairvoyance are related in no way. I have 100% faith clairvoyance is real, yet I don't see auras. It is in terms of belief and active pursuit of anything, really, that one wants to attain or acquire most, key word most. People attain or acquire what they or nature desire most. It is a factor of identity and self-placement, -actualization that permits clairvoyance.

[eyeoneblack]

Hi Yoda. I think what it boils down to is your psychic frequency. Our energy bodies (for example) resonate at low to high frequencies. You have the double-bass, the cello, the viola and the violin. Clairvoyance is the product of the higher frequencies. When you raise your consciousness to the high frequencies clairvoyance comes naturally, not the bass but the violin. It isn't purposeful but a culmination of your aspirations to become fine tuned.

Clairvoyance is a gift of seeking perfection - of getting a grasp on the machinery of the 'clock' that marches on. But it is so subtle that one hardly knows when and where it begins, but ultimately you begin to trust it.

Trust is operative word.

[MysterSynIcysm]

What a great laugh to start the morning :-D. I think we're going to get along fine, MYster!
Aha! I see u be well versed in the highly effective psychic self defense technique known as genuine heartfelt laughter. This be a banishment ritual well known to thwart the evil spirits intent on inducing fear, worry, anxiety and depression.
But beware to tread carefully, for evil be afoot, and many of us walk with two of them!

[eyeoneblack]

Well, you're a puzzle Myster :confused:.
But beware to tread carefully, for evil be afoot, and many of us walk with two of them!

That's intriguing. Surely you mean no harm. I doubt you'll find any takers here if your intentions are crude and debased. We are, for the most part a merry crew, but please leave our 'young' alone. With just a few key-strokes you're outa here.

What do you mean by 'evil afoot'? Do you actually think you can move Heaven and Earth? I totally doubt it.

What are you up to?

[MysterSynIcysm]

Merely making an observation. In movies and books seem to recall such sayings as evil being afoot, and indeed on the end of both me legs happens to be a foot? It's there for all to see, no intention, merely objective observation... Make of it what you will, as indeed u did. Your belief system, your choice. And whatever you choose to believe, the objective reality continues to be woteva it is, with as many interpretations of it as there are entities capable of interpreting it. Such are the multifaceted many faces of the One :shrug:

[eyeoneblack]

Hmm.
That's a good and reasonable take. :)

[Frater.Akenu]

I was once told by an experienced Magician, that he doesn't really believe in Magick. He doesn't believe in angels, demons, gods, deities, Astral, elements, anything, that is, unless he is working with these. The thing is to fully adopt the belief of paranormal and absolute concentration of the deed being done during the ritual or working you do, then you can once again be skeptical as much as you wish and use whatever analytical method to process your results.

[eyeoneblack]

Huh! Are you reading my mind, Frater Akenu? Sure seems like it. All I can say is, "me too". :) I second that.

[MysterSynIcysm]

I was told by an experienced Magician, that he doesn't really believe in Magick. He doesn't believe in angels, demons, gods, deities, Astral, elements, anything, that is, unless he is working with these. The thing is to fully adopt the belief of paranormal and absolute concentration of the deed being done during the ritual or working you do, then you can once again be skeptical as much as you wish and use whatever analytical method to process your results.

You can also simultaneously fully believe that u don't fully believe whateva it is that u are busy fully believing. (Can kinda help in overcoming the whole possesion thing)
Behold the ubiquitous omniscient omnipotency of humanities beliefs embedded within the human imagination!!!

[Dreamweaver]

MisterSynlcysm has a familiar rhythmn and cadence to his posts.