PE to ask questions; PE-Queries8

[PauliEffect]

Partnered Exploration (PE); PE-Queries8

This is a call for PE, main purpose is to ask questions to guides or helpers
by the use of group energy. (This call for PE goes to several forums.)

For some of my ideas related to PE activities in general,
see this -> link (http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1344896428/1#1) (where the PE template also is commented).


Name of this PE is PE-Queries8 and its session dates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601) & times (24 hour clock) are:

- PE-Queries8.sess01, 2012-11-24 18.00 UTC+0 (Saturday)
- PE-Queries8.sess02, 2012-11-25 18.00 UTC+0 (Sunday)


Example 1, for Sweden, Germany, Italy and most of EU this becomes:
- PE-Queries8.sess01, 2012-11-24 19.00 UTC+1 (Saturday)
- PE-Queries8.sess02, 2012-11-25 19.00 UTC+1 (Sunday)

Example 2, for U.S. Eastern Time this becomes:
- PE-Queries8.sess01, 2012-11-24 13.00 UTC-5 (Saturday)
- PE-Queries8.sess02, 2012-11-25 13.00 UTC-5 (Sunday)


(If I make an error somewhere in the examples, please correct me.)
DST is _not_ in effect in America or EU as I know of during this PE.


Activity: We are going to ask two main questions to guides & helpers.

The two main questions may result in follow-up questions or need for
clarifications. This can take a good deal of time, and that's why
I've limited this PE to only two main questions.


The first question is related to T Campbell's viewpoint that the physical
universe (matter, light, etc) is just a simulation, which consists of
digital Consciousness. Sometimes Campbell says that Consciousness is
just Data and the Data is digital in its nature.

This means that the physical universe doesn't exist if Consciousness
withdraws from the physical universe, because the physical universe
doesn't exist on its own right in the first place.

This means that if the Consciousness which is used for maintaining the physical
universe, is put into some other kind of use, the physical universe will cease
to exist. I think Campbell has also expressed it in the way that the physical
universe is only "virtual", and he sometimes uses the abbreviation PMR for the
physical (matter) universe.


IMPORTANT: I'll create a list of participants (LIPA) as people state that they
want to join this PE. The LIPA will be used for maintaining in what order
people can ask questions to guides & helpers.

Only one person at a time, from the LIPA, will ask all questions. The others
will just listen until the questions have been answered. Then the next person
from the LIPA will begin asking the same main questions and add that person's
own flavoured follow-up questions.

On some forums I can't update the first post after some time has passed. This
means that if you are a PE-Queries8 participant, you'll have to take a look
at the final LIPA in order to know how many persons before you will ask the
same questions, before it's your turn. So... ->

IMPORTANT TIME: Final LIPA set at 2012-11-24 12.00 UTC+0 (Saturday),
for both sessions.

After that point in time, I'll not add any more people to the LIPA. You
may still be able to participate in the PE, but you'll have to settle
for listening to the answers.


(Note, this PE should not be mixed up with earlier scheduled PE-AdjustEnergy7.)



PE Action:

Relax, possible gather PUL. If needed, go nonphysically to a favorite place
of yours and request a guide leading you to the Garden & Park. Otherwise go
directly to the Garden & Park as mentioned in PE-Alien6. I'll include the
new map of the area for completeness:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4029/vsgarden03800.jpg


If no images can be seen by your minds eye, imagine peeling an orange.
If you see anything, imagine greeting the others at the Park & Garden.
My guess by now is that the Garden & Park is somewhere in Focus 27.

Once you sense some other people, gather in a circle and send supportive
energy, positive feelings to the first person to ask questions.


Then just observe and try to pick up any answers and any follow-up questions.

When it's your turn to ask the main questions, step into the middle of the
circle of people, direct yourself to the guide present and ask your questions.

When you've gotten answers, you may choose to ask follow-up questions, of
you own choice. Take as long time as you want to.

If you feel moved to another place, just follow, observe and see what happens.
You may be taken for a ride alone or together with others. Perhaps you'll get
a task to perform, but most likely is that you just observe something
somewhere.

Keeping an open mind at all times.


MAIN QUESTION 1 TO GUIDE: - If Consciousness leaves physical reality, does physical
reality still exists on its own, without the need for the presence of Consciousness?

MAIN QUESTION 2 TO GUIDE: - Why is it so difficult for some people to OBE and what
can be done to improve OBE ability?


If you can't pick up the answer or if the answer is unclear, you can proceed
with some follow-up questions to the guide:

- Can you answer this question?
- Are you interested in the answer?
- If you can't answer the question, can you take us to someone who can?
- I'll rephrase my question; does physical reality exist independent of
Consciousness being present?
- What's the most common reason beside fear, that makes it difficult for
people to OBE?
- (any other questions you may have)


Explicit participants:

Anyone can participate, just state that you will join the PE in this thread.
You don't need to have been on any previous PE. I'll call the list of
participants for the LIPA. As an aid for everyone to find each other,
I'll also state the originating forum behind that participants forum
nick. So far the LIPA goes like this:

List of Participants (LIPA) of PE-Queries8:

PauliEffect (Afterlife Knowledge (http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi))


Also, I'll keep myself at the last person of the list, so everyone gets to
ask the questions before me.

[IA56]

I want to join to listen to the answeres..

[PauliEffect]

Some time ago, before I made the call for PE-Queries8, I met one of my
guides, who I think isn't originally human. I asked this guide if
physical reality exists on its own. I got a peculiar answer, in
the form of a question:

"If you withdraw Consciousness from matter, how do you know that
matter still exists?"


That response puzzled me and I came up with no answer. I made the call
for PE-Queries8, and left my guide's question for some time. I also
asked my guide if it/she/he knew the answer to the question and it/she/he
answered "no". I asked if my guide could find the answer, and the answer
was "yes". I finally asked my guide if my guide was interested in the
answer to the question and got "no".

---


Anyway, now I've come up with a very simple and probably flawed experiment.
I have three balls in space, the lower ball is yellow, the middle bigger
ball is green, and the top ball is blue.

Assume that the balls are made out of painted steel. :)

I push the yellow ball towards the blue ball, but the large green ball
is an obstacle in front of the blue ball. There are some ball collisions
and the balls move in different directions.

The arrows in the image just indicate directions of movement of the
balls.

---


Then I repeat the experiment.

But I remove Consciousness from one area of three dimensional space. As
this is a thought experiment and not a real one, I can do so.


The image below show the experiment in A.1 without any changes to physical
reality, while in B.1 the dashed area represents the region where
Consciousness is withdrawn:


http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7741/balls1500.jpg


The large green ball now can not be sensed, and part of the top blue ball
also can't be sensed. I also remove Consciousness from everything which
goes into the dashed rectangular volume.

I know nothing of what's inside the non-Consciousness dash outlined
volume.

I then push the yellow ball into that non-Consciousness area and withdraws
Consciousness from the yellow ball as it enter that area.

I then wait.

What will happen to the blue ball? Will it move and if so, in what direction?

If matter can't exist on it's own, the blue ball should stay still, right?

NOTE: The reason why I use a larger green ball, and don't push the yellow
ball directly towards the top blue ball, is that I don't know if there is
a difference with matter in motion or standing still which has had
Consciousness withdrawn.

I also don't know what to expect as the large green ball could be gone,
and so could the yellow. Will the blue ball only start to move due to my
expectations, be it either on the yellow ball only, or on the combination
yellow-and-green ball?

Please leave your comments.

Or if you know how to make a better experiment or improve this one, just
tell me. :)


Campbell's claim that PMR doesn't exist on its own really puzzles me.

[CFTraveler]

The only comment I have (and it's not helpful or insightful at all) is that your model B.1 seems to illustrate quantum indeterminacy, but on a large scale. How you can have an area of nonconsciousness (is not-knowingness not-consciousness?) and another area of consciousness I don't understand, unless you consider an observer=consciousness. Is this so?
(Sorry for my sentence construction, I'm under the hold of yet another migraine episode, and I can't properly articulate certain concepts when I'm migrainy.) <---- But at least I closed the parenthesis.

[PauliEffect]

Yes CFTraveller, you have found one (several?) weak spots in my experiment setting
above, the indeterminacy.

I think quantum indeterminacy is something Campbell has been thinking on, when
he wrote his TOE, as he is a physicist. So for the experiment above, I would accept
quite a great uncertainty on time, but not on position in space. Assume that the
movements (and ball collisions) in A.1 take 10 seconds. Then in B.1 I could wait for,
say 20 seconds, to see if anything happens.

According to Campbell, physical matter reality (PMR) is made up of Digital Data =
Consciousness, only.

This means that if Consciousness is completely withdrawn from matter, then matter
will be gone. That also would mean that if the B.1 experiment is possible to perform,
no movement will happen even after several minutes.

---


Now the problem comes to; how-to-remove-Consciousness from matter?

I just assume that we humans usually are incapable of removing Consciousness,
so the B.1 experiment has to be performed by some entities with better ability
to manipulate Consciousness.

But if those "higher" beings can perform the experiment or we can convince
them to help us perform such an experiment, then we may get some kind
of answer.

---


One more flaw in the experiment is that it assumes that there always is Consciousness
in matter. I don't know if that assumption is right.

And that's why my initial question is more related to a general question on existance
of matter. The experiment holds an assumption, which is a drawback, as I haven't
made such a solid observation myself.

So I try to go from observation -> question -> answer.

And Campbell claims to have done the observation that PMR doesn't exist on its own.
PMR is only virtual, virtually existing. I then hope we all can examine Campbell's
observation, by doing a PE.

---


Then there are more flaws in B.1.

For example the problem with observed quantum entanglement. Perhaps the experiment
is impossible? Maybe we need to remove _all_ Consciousness from _all_ matter in
order to remove Consciousness from even a tiny bit of matter, or we will crash
into the entanglement problem?

I don't know that answer either. :)

---


We also have the problem with expectations, but to some part I've an opening there,
as the blue ball can be collided by the green ball or the yellow ball. Possible repeating
the experiment with different people, having different expectations will give different
results, which in the end point to the possibility that Campbell is right; PMR doesn't
exist.

---

Proton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton)

Then there are more possibilities, like the Moen assumption that Consciousness is
present in matter at all times.

Perhaps Consciousness and matter can't be separated, like the up and down quarks
of a proton/neutron can't be separated. I think the top quark is stand-alone, but
the up/down quarks always have to be in groups of three, because they are kept
together by gluons, which "glue" those quarks together.

Add more energy to separate the up/down quarks and that energy turns into more
gluons, which keep the quarks even harder together, inseparable.

--

To answer your question, is the observer = consciousness?

The answer is that the Observer is not only Consciousness, the Observer is so much
more in Campbell's theory. The Observer is both Consciousness, the Big Computer,
the Programmer and Software - all made up of the same digital Consciousness.

If you, according to Campbell, remove the Observer, you also remove all the other
parts, which in effect would remove matter, too. Matter is just a simulation, made out
of some part of the Software = Consciousness.

My idea is that if Campbell is right, you should be able to remove some portion of
the Software, and that removal will cease the simulation of the existence of matter,
within the dashed test volume in B.1.

If that's not enough you could even remove some part of the Computer, where the
Software/Data (=Consciousness) is stored.

So..

To test Campbell's theory, we somehow have to remove as much Consciousness as
possible, preferable all Consciousness within the dashed-drawn experiment volume
in B.1, to see if there is still any matter left (yellow/green balls) which can move
the blue ball.

---

To make one more reflection, the question I got as an "answer" from my guide,
indicates that things may be more complicated than the model Campbell
presents, IMHO.

[CFTraveler]

I have some crude thoughts on the subject- not even theory, just random things that I think about when I read about theories such as Campbell's and others' (whose names I can't even think of at the moment, so many scientists, so little time....)

Many noetic science writers describe reality as consisting of energy and information. Energy is the potential for something to be, and information is that which gives the energy form or perceptibility- I like this because it reduces everything to simple bite-size chunks, easy to digest, so to speak.... but when we get into consciousness things get somewhat fuzzy-
As I was reading somewhere, consciousness is something that we can only study in ourselves- we tend to think that our consciousness is what allows us to think about what we perceive- a kind of precursor and at the same time translator of this information- and this makes sense to me if the energy everyone talks about is also the energy that we think with, that observes itself.
But then when it comes to information- that signal that makes the universe holographic (or not, it's still a theory)- who puts the information in the energy to make it perceptible? Is it consciousness, or is there another yet undiscovered agent? So this computer/consciousness/interpreter may be all one- and this information then is what we perceive as reality, when really it's just an inprinted code that is also created by this consciousness.
Or maybe not, who knows?
- That's what happens when the headache goes away but the addlebrainedness remains. :wacky1:

So I think my point may have been that indeterminacy arises from the inability from consciousness to perceive itself without imprinting a code- remove consciousness/attention and the code is gone, and if the code is gone there's just pure undifferentiated energy to not perceive.

I think this may be what the Kabalists call 'Ain Sof' or the first emanation..... Ok my headache is returning I better stop reading ASAP.

[PauliEffect]

What does it mean that "the universe is holographic"? Is that just another
way of saying that the universe is virtual, in the Campbell sense?

[CFTraveler]

In a way yes, only more specific, holographic being the way the virtual universe is perceived in pmr. Here's some background, if you don't find it too boring:
Talbot's theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

It seemed that astronomical observations were supporting the holographic theory, but this seems to be rethought.
http://io9.com/5818008/the-universe-probably-isnt-a-giant-hologram-after-all

However, if the brain perceives reality holographically, and it seems to be the case, there is still the possibility that it is.

[PauliEffect]

There is one week left to this PE starts, but very few have showed interest.

Maybe I could reduce the requirements, by saying that putting intent and
making a post in this thread, is all that's needed for the PE to get an
increased possibility to succeed.

You could also try to participate either by putting intent before you go
to bed (you probably wont remember much that way, but I can tell you
on the forum afterwards). You have at least a span of ±24 hours to play
with during next weekend.

I don't request that anyone ask questions, your presence in the PE circle
is probably the most important thing, as I don't fare well without group
energy, or at least I've been very unsuccessful getting answers on my
own to those two questions (see starting post above) so far.

I have the feeling that I need 3 more persons for this PE. No skills
whatsoever are needed.

[CFTraveler]

Just remind me the day before-next w.e. it 's thanksgiving and I will need reminding.

[PauliEffect]

This is the latest LIPA (List of Participants):

CFTraveler (Astral Dynamics (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/forum.php))
teagueblue (EIC (http://www.explorations-in-consciousness.com/forums/index.php))
PauliEffect (Afterlife Knowledge (http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi))
IA56 (Astral Dynamics (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/forum.php))


Not all on the LIPA wants to ask questions. You may join also if
you only want to listen to the answers. I'll write my report
once the PE is completed.

We still could need some more participants to add to the group energy,
so please join. :)

[IA56]

Hi, I did not hear anything, the only sensation I got was a traveling feeling and very high energy fill-up, I was able to sit one hour saturday, but sunday I was late 2 hour and sat only 20 minut.

I hope some more will participate at the next session on December 16.

Love
ia

[CFTraveler]

I participated but reported privately to Pauli, waiting for him to make his report first.

Ok, here's what I got:
In general, I got 'there' and interacted with someone. Some stuff was 'wrong' and I was given the job to 'fix' it. I don't know if I succeeded but I tried.
There was a female authority figure that I had to check in with.
Towards the end, there was some stuff with aliens which wasn't negative (I think they were part of the PE) and I felt very comfortable with them.
Details I remember:
A building in a larger garden-y area. Nice scape, the house needed work.
The side we were in (I'm going to say the 'West' or 'Left' side was deteriorated. We gutted and repaired it. The female authority figure was very critical of the work that had been done, I then had to explained what we did. I don't even remember what we did.
Later on, in the place where we sat in a circle I know information was shared. There may have been information about world events but I have forgotten the information itself, only that it wasn't so bad as people seem to think.
And, that's it, if I remember more I'll add it.

[PauliEffect]

(Note: This post may not be without textual faults, as I began writing
one thing, then went back and forth until I seemed to get the
timeline in the text correct in comparison to my first notes.)


PE-Queries8.sess01, First Session on 2012-11-24 (Saturday)


Skriet Alien retrieval (see also this link (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?14731-Focus-26-and-quot-Aliens-quot))

I start my PE session a little ahead of time, perhaps 20 minutes before
the scheduled time. I want to be a good host, so I should arrive
before anyone else at the PE.

I very directly move to the inner of Vicky's Garden. I move around
a little and quite soon I find a Skriet Alien (a dead human,
who believes she/he is an alien), who needs a retrieval. I get the
feeling that this Skriet Alien feels rather lonely, but wont leave
until someone who looks like a plausible fellow alien will emerge.

I talk to the Skriet Alien and get the impression that whatever energy
I transfer, it initiates the retrieval and Helpers take over rather
quickly. Perhaps these Skriet Aliens are not retrieved by anyone else
than me? And when I appear, the Helpers take the chance to utilize
my presence?

---


To the Park

I look at the wall (of the house) which is located at the "down side" of
the image I've provided previously (see thread start). There is a big
window on the wall of the house. I haven't noticed that the window was
that big before. It must be the window into the kitchen of Vicky's house.

Suddenly Vicky appears in the window and slowly moves through the glass.
I am surprised. Is it her higher self, a Vicky impersonator or the real
Vicky? She has not told me in advance that she would participate.

She has a very tricky look on her face. I don't know what to expect.
Vicky points to the opening in the thick hedge, I can see a bright
white light coming from something beyond the hedge opening.

Vicky says: "Go there."

I respond: "Please join."

Vicky says: "I will."


I move into the Park area. No one seems to be there. Or well, maybe
some people at great distance ahead, but no one within 200 meters at
least. I make a full turn somewhere at the "bigger PE circle".

Nothing seems unusual. The low hill, behind which I saw A Edvin the first
time, seems even lower this time, only being part of the Park lawn. I notice
a rather large bush, which I've not seen before. The bush appears at some
distance at the the lower right corner of my picture of the Garden & Park.

I continue to scan a little more, because this is the best 360 degree
view I've ever got of the Park area near Vicky's Garden.

---


Fancy Mansion

As I look back to Vicky's House, I realize that it's gone. Vicky's House has
been replaced by a large Mansion. The building is white, with several small
towers. The roofs of the building and its towers are deep red.

All parts of the Mansion are connected like a huge white cake, with red
toppings. My surroundings seem to be some kind of other world now, almost
like I'm slightly into a fairy tale.

I'm curious and move towards the Mansion. I've no problems entering the
building. I see long old aged hallways of very luxury sorts. The inner
walls are covered with expensive wooden panels and the floor has exquisite
tiles. I move into big rooms, which gives away the air of being conference
rooms. Part of the inner building gives away a very serious impression,
while the exterior more felt like a big fairy tale Mansion. The wood work
of the inner rooms and hallways also seems yellow or golden, emitting a
golden aura, perhaps like the yellow light in many of Miami CSI's TV
episodes. Maybe I sense a pair of colored glasses in front of me?

The Mansion seems to be completely empty on people, like everyone left
the building in excellent shape.

The only thing which may be odd, is that I don't seem to see much (any)
furniture inside the Mansion. I also try to figure out if the conference
rooms are in fact dining rooms, but can't make up my mind.

---


The PE starts

I move out again, to the Park area. Once out, I find myself on the low
hill close to where I first saw A Edvin. I look at the Mansion.

Now something strange happens. I can only describe it as; many "Token
Aliens" appearing. I'm not sure if these Token Aliens are real beings
or if they symbolize something. But they come and go out of my nonvisual
view. I can only get short impressions of these Token Aliens. I don't get
any solid fix on any of them. Most Token Aliens only appear a brief moment,
looking kind of transparent. I also see two regular small alien greys,
they look very solid. I can't make out if A Edvin is one of them, but
the other alien grey is really digging in the soil. The greys appear
to the left side of the area.

My best guess is that I sensed these Tokens Aliens because they were very
busy doing a lot of work all over the place. To my best ability I would
say the Token Aliens looked like some kind of mix of an Alien Grey and an
Albino Alien. How many are they? 20? 50?

Then I see Vicky again. She stands on the lawn in front of me. Behind her
is the Mansion. The Token Aliens, who up until now very rapidly have moved
around all over the place, going in and out of my view, fade away.

I see the black key Vicky once handed over to me. I'm a little puzzled
what to do. Didn't I put that black key into my pocket long ago?

I reach down my pocket and hold the black metal key in my hand. Vicky
shows me something. Is it a wooden hatch? Most of my surroundings have
faded away and I only see a wooden hatch in a wall of some sort.

I put the black key into a key hole in the hatch and opens the wooden
hatch. Inside the opening I see a dark night sky and a lot of stars.

(Here my memory has faded. I'm not sure I remember what happened.)


I think I sense CFTraveler to my right. I then sense teagueblue in front
of me at some distance. Then I sensed IA56 close to my left. Behind me,
slightly to my right I sense Vicky, she kind of stays off the PE circle.

I can't remember if I was a good host and greeted everyone. Maybe I just
wanted to get the PE action started, as there had been so many unrelated
events in between?

As long as we were standing in the circle, I initially had great difficulties
convincing teagueblue to move closer to the rest of us.

I first suggest that CFTraveler go ask the PE-Queries8 questions, but she
somehow shows me to teagueblue. We all encourage teagueblue to ask the
questions and aid by sending helping energies.

But things don't seem to work out well. Teagueblue just seems to spin
around his (a he?) vertical axis. I get the impression that teagueblue
is male, rather slim, early 30ies or late 20ies, but I have no idea.
Teagueblue could as well be an old short heavy woman. :)

I make several attempts to get teagueblue to ask the questions, but he
seems to either float or swim (?) somewhere. At times we leave the Park
and move into dark space, with some faint stars at a distance.

I work perhaps 10-15 minutes to get teagueblue to ask the Main Questions,
as I felt directed to do so by CFTraveler. If teagueblue asked any questions
I don't know. I couldn't hear any answers either.

At some late point I sense Bruce Moen. He doesn't participate in the PE,
he just observes us, almost like a teacher looking at how his pupils
are doing when perform some kind of work task. I also see someone who
I think is Campbell. I think Campbell is more involved in our PE activity
than what Moen is. Campbell smiles at me at one moment. At other moments
I see Campbell in his business suit while he is wearing sunglasses. He
again smiles at us. Is he teasing us or just amused? I decide that I
think he probably is amused of what we are doing.

So far we haven't managed much in regards of our PE goals...

We are at some point back at the inner region of Vicky's Garden, at the
place in the picture where the red albino alien dot is marked. There
is a white garden table almost exactly where the red dot is on the
picture. We are four PE persons only. I can't remember if I switched
to have CFTraveler as the one asking the Main PE Questions at this
point in time.

My impressions now are a mixture of things related to the PE and things
which I have no idea of. I think I managed to remember all important parts.

---


Strange Impressions

I'm at a beach ("my place's" beach?). I notice a young tall man. He looks
like the Greek Hector I've seen before. Then he fades and only become
a painting. Perhaps that's an indication that I can't ask him for help
right now?

In my non-visual vision, in my mind's eye, I now see a female hand, which
takes and holds my (?) hand. She moves her hand up and down several times.
The hands-impression comes and goes.

Then I only see her hand. Her hand is doing something, turning some papers
of a book (?).

I have no idea what is happening. Going back to the Park becomes a failure
each time I try. I can't even sense my fellow PE participants anymore. I'm
wondering if this is becoming a very poor PE...

After what seems like a long time, I eventually can see some sunshine. I'm
on my back and I can see the sunshine through branches of trees above me.
I just assume that I'm back in the Park, but what's the meaning of the
sunshine?

I feel so calm and at ease.

I move my vision around. More sunshine through branches and I sense tree
trunks nearby. Then I realize that my vision of the sunshine is kind of
distorted. It's like I'm looking at the sunshine through water. Am I on
my back at the bottom of a Park pond, beneath the surface of the water?

It clearly feels like I'm observing through water, and it feels like the
best moment during the PE. I'm doing nothing at all, just watching upward.

I force myself out of it and am again back at the vision of the female
hand, which turns papers in a book. I try to get a better look of who's
behind the hand. I see a woman around 35. She has dark hair tied up in
a ball at the back of her head. She looks slim and small.

I think she is some kind of guide. I try to get an even better impression of
her and what she is doing. She then becomes unfriendly. And switches between
being unfriendly and neutral, at times she looks "evil".

I'm just guessing now, but I think that the ball-haired woman was a guide
and perhaps I was interfering with whatever she did. She tried to cut me
out, but perhaps wasn't able to do the cutting-out completely as she at
the same time interacted with me somehow.


I try to scan my surroundings, but just get the impression of more unfriendly
beings. Sending PUL helps little. Then it strikes me. Perhaps I should
ask Tabitha for help? After all she may be some kind of higher being now.
I haven't seen Tabitha since we sent her healing, so I know nothing of
what happened to her since.

To my surprise I manage to home in on Tabitha, sensing her quite near me.
She turns her alien face towards me and hisses me off while showing her
pointy teeth.

That was a scare.

Apparently I don't know what I'm supposed to do, as I can't get hold of
my fellow PE participants and I'm being stopped when I do something.

---


Back at PE

I don't know how I got back to the PE session, but I can sense several
persons, and I'm quite sure my PE fellows are there. I take a good scan
of the people in the PE circle. Besides me, I clearly sense 8 (eight)
more persons. Maybe some people are participating here, but are asleep
on Earth?

While I'm directing my attention to the PE group, CFTraveler comes from
behind and says: "It's your turn now."

CFTRaveler then pushes my in my back. She is pushing me forward.

Push. Push. PUsH. pUSh. PUSH. PUSH. Push. PuSh. PusH. Push...

Her pushing is a little irregular and I feel like being pushed forward
by a large animal. Is this really CFTRaveler behind me? She acts more
like a pushy guide. :)

I must have been pushed forward at least 20 times, probably 30 times.
The pushing goes on for so long that I notice that I'm unable to do
anything else then follow in the movement of each push.

---


My Questions

Eventually the pushing slows down.

I scan and look out for any non-visual visuals, any impressions or any
mind's eye images or knowings. I have a hard time sensing anything.
I also have a little physically felt stomach ache so that has made
me move in and out of my deeper state.

Perhaps I faintly sense an Alien who resembles the Thor Asgard from
one of the SG TV-series. If that's a guide, Thor is a good metaphor.

I decide to ask my question to this faintly sensed Thor.

I ask: "If Consciousness leaves physical matter, does physical matter
still exist?"

Thor gives no response. That was strange. Or am I just poor at picking
up his answer? Maybe if I rephrase my Main Question a little?


I ask: "If Consciousness leaves physical matter, will there be a
residue left?"

Thor responds both with a knowing and a sign: "Yes... No."


(What?)

I'm completely perplexed. Was that a Yes and a No in the same answer?
Why do these guides so often make it difficult to get answers? A Yes-No
is not an answer. Or is it me who is poor at perceiving the answer? I
feel a little unhappy at this moment.

I ask the question again and again, stating that I didn't understand
the first answer.

Thor's response: "..."

He seems to meet me with silence, no answer at all now!

I ask my self tired, then decide that I've failed. Perhaps IA56 wants
to ask questions after all. I easily find IA56 and ask if she would
want to give some questions to the guide? She apparently must have
changed her mind, because she now seems happy to ask questions.
I can hear her clearly with my mind's ear.

IA56 asks: "Why doesn't matter exist?" (Pause) "Why does Love exist?"

I get the impression that IA56 asks those questions in her own language.
Somewhat strange questions, as the first one is a negative implication
and her second question was not among the PE Main Questions. I don't
mind as maybe she got much better answers than I got. :)

Also, her negated question on matter (the doesn't), made me aware
that I just from the beginning assumed that matter exists on some level.

Well, I have to assume something, as I originate from observations, right?
I'm not sure how much support I have from my guides on that issue. Maybe
I should try to find out?

I zoom in on Thor again, but find no one.

---

(continued...)

[PauliEffect]

(...continued.)

Back at the Mansion - Seeing Colored Glasses

I try to look for Vicky. She's at my right side. Are we in the Park?
I turn to her.

I say: "I didn't get any answer."

She responds with a strange grin: "I know."

My surroundings change, now I'm surely in the Park. I ask CFTraveler if
she got any answer and she responds Yes. Rather abruptly I move into
the Mansion. Did I do the move myself or was I moved?

There seems to be a lot of people inside the Mansion this time. Business
people in suits. I particular sense a female in a business dress. She
gives me the impression of being a politician or someone in charge, who
asks questions.

Hmm, is she going to ask me questions or can I ask her questions? Or is
this some kind of hearing where I have to say something? There is an odd
official feeling to the gathering of those business or political people.

Maybe that's the reason I felt the rooms of the Mansion where aimed at
being used for conferences, meetings for people who do some kind of
work and make important decisions?

By unknown reason I get the courage to call for all people who know parts
of the answer to my questions. I'm in one of the big conference rooms.
There are lots of people along the tables which are place in a kind of
circle around the walls of the room. Some additional tables are placed
in the middle of the circle.

I do my best to focus on the female politician. She wears a grey top,
almost like an indoor jacket and she also wears a grey skirt. Her
hair is short and perhaps middle blond, partly dark. I don't think
I've seen her before. There also seems to be going on a lot of commotion
around me. People talking and perhaps working at tables. The tables
don't give off the impression of office tables, but rather feel like
conference tables, where you place some papers or a laptop temporarily.

I feel no direct purpose for this change of events or why all these
people suddenly are here. I for a moment sense glasses on the tables.
the lenses in the glasses are colored, some are pink, some are lilac.
I see a pair of glasses close to me with colored glasses. I get the
impression that the glasses are symbols. We all see the world through
our colored glasses.

Hmm...

Maybe those glasses are a way of telling me that whatever answer I get,
it will only be through my colored glasses? I can never get the "true"
answer?

I begin to wonder if our physical senses are a hindrance too? I see big
eyes, a nose, an ear and something more on the floors of some rooms.
I see a big ear at a pedestal, the ear is the size of two basket balls.

But I also get a knowing, which unfolds post session. I think my knowing
to some part is related to what I have read from Moen. The knowing I get
is that our physical senses are less hindrances for us to understand the
nonphysical reality. Our colored glasses are our greatest obstacles, our
assumptions, even assumptions accumulated through nonphysical experiences.


I'm a little confused and begin to feel tired. So I want to ask someone
my questions. Maybe I also had clicked out. I direct myself to the
woman in the grey dress suit. I try to be as smart as I can, going
back and asking even more basic questions than I thought of to begin
with, taking as little for granted as possible, and also making my
questions negated, like IA56 did.

I ask: "Is my assumption on matter's existence wrong."

Some kind of collective answer: "Yes. Yes."

Hmm...

Maybe, just maybe, to have _something_ to compare with and make a question's
response fool proof, I'll ask a question which I already know the
answer to.

I ask: "Is my assumption that Consciousness exists, wrong?"

Collective answer: "Yes. Yes. Yes."

Uhh...

That was a stomach blower.

I hadn't expected that at all. So my assumption on the existence of
Consciousness, that is wrong? But how am I to assume anything else?

What else is there to assume? There must exist some kind of Consciousness,
right? Even if matter doesn't exist, Consciousness must exist, it must,
mustn't it?

I try it again.

I say: "My assumption that Consciousness exists, is that wrong?"

(Dead silence...)

I now get no answers! I feel a little upset. Am I a failure and was this
PE a bad decision to make? If I can't assume that Consciousness exists,
than what can I assume? I'm at a roads' ends.

Maybe if we had been more people in the PE?

My Mansion view fades.

---


Robert Monroe

In front of me Robert Monroe is sitting, just the way he sits on one of
the youtube clips I've seen. He seems to want to calm me down.

Monroe says gently: "There is more, it's complicated. It's complicated."

He laughs in his special way and then shows me himself with a pair of
colored glasses. The right glass is blue and the left glass is green.
Apparently he wants to tell me that he also had colored glasses, and
perhaps still do?

I wonder, if we all wear colored glasses, how do we get to know what is
real? Or how things really are, or how they are connected to each other?

I watch Monroe as I remember to myself if "free will" is something
put into us and if it can be taken out. I then sense that Monroe took
my thought as a question to him, but he doesn't want to answer anything
directly. I can feel that Monroe wants to give me a riddle. I just feel
that the riddle is somehow related to Campbell.

I'm shown an alien (?) and a second being. The alien picks out a piece
of "free will", out of the chest of the second being, who now
turns into a robot, only capable of responding to its "software".

The piece of free will, held in the hand of the alien (?), looks like
a cubic piece of pale blue plastic.

Monroe asks: "If you remove 'free will', where does it go?"

I wonder to myself, if free will is something which can be removed or
put back, what is it made of? A different substance than Consciousness?

My next thought is, why do he/they ask me this questions. I wait a moment.
There is a pause. Then I get a faint message: "Remember, there are
others. It's not for you alone."


Symbolic removal of a piece of free will (the blue cube) turns a being into a robot.
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/3813/freewillremoval.jpg


I query Monroe: "But Campbell has said that everything is Consciousness
only. Everything is only Data... So he says![/i]"

Monroe very calmly responds: "He says so."

I ask: "If matter doesn't exist and Consciousness doesn't exist, what
does exist then? Where do I start? What do I start with?"

Monroe responds: "Oh, reality is complicated, you see. It's more
complicated..."

I ask: "But does anything similar to our concept of Consciousness exist?

Monroe responds: "That's the funny thing... Yes. There is more than
your concept of Consciousness."


The last answer I have to ponder deeper over.

I try to ask additional questions, including the second Main Question related
to OBEs, but get no answers or only faint answers that OBEs are related
to some kind of energy. What I can't convey is the style and intonation
Monroe use. Somehow he is a little amused by my frustration, perhaps
he wants to make me start think deeper on my own. In each of his answers
I have the feeling that he leaves something out on purpose.

I'm tired and my stomach ache finally makes me decide to quit the session.

I thank Monroe.

I seek up my fellow PE participants and say bye to everyone. I then fade
out and remember that there is a second PE session the next day.

[PauliEffect]

PE-Queries8.sess02, Second Session on 2012-11-25 (Sunday)


A slow start

Before this session I decided to ask Aardema's question first, because
I got so lousy answers on my own Main Questions.

This session is on a Sunday. I'm looking for the Park. I see no Park
or Garden. I try to sense the others in the PE. I get the feeling that
I should ask my questions. But am I not stepping ahead of my fellow PE
people? I've barely started and they can clearly not have asked any of
the Main Questions yet?


I see Monroe. He is sits and looks at me. I realize that I got my chance.
Without hesitation I act.

I ask Aardema's question: "What is reality?"

Monroe fades away. I see garble, I hear garble. I see grey shades. I watch
some unnamely substance bubble and boil. I do my best for over a minute
to perceive or imagine anything, but I just get a grey dark mess as a
response. From a long distance I hear something.

An answer: "(mumble).. ohh.. a lot of energy..."

Somehow I get two impressions. I sense that someone tries to answer my
question but the response is too far away from me. I also get a faint
feeling that my question covers too much. It's too wide.

Finally I give up and only wait. Monroe appears again.

Monroe says: "We are short on time."

He then fades away. Jeeez, Mr Monroe, was that helpful? Am I supposed to
act quicker? Ask faster or allow shorter time for each of my fellow PE
participants to ask their questions, is that what I'm expected to do?

And now quite a long period passes, when absolutely nothing happens. It
must be several minutes where I get nothing. All my imagination tricks
fail. I eventually decide to just rest and wait things out.

I see light.

---


Paris in rain

It's like I'm back at the Park at the bottom of the pond, looking upwards
through the water. At first I see the light, the sunshine. Then I also
see some of the branches and leaves of the trees. But something is
different. It looks darker.

I take a good look at the shiftings of the light by the water and then
realizes that I'm suddenly looking at a pool of rainwater from above.
I can see many drops of rainwater hit the pool and the surface of the
pool reflects some pale light from above.

I'm standing on a street or rather, on a pavement in a town. I look up
and it's a grey rainy day. When I look at a distance to my left there
is lots of open space and in the far, the rain makes it impossible to
see any buildings. But I think there is some kind of stone bridge ahead.

To my right is some kind of regular residential town house and straight
ahead the pavement and street continues.

In front of me there is a woman, 25 - 30 years of age. There is also
a child nearby. The woman wears a raincoat of a little dated sort.

I get the feeling of early 1960ies, perhaps even the year 1961.

There probably are a few more people ahead, but I can't get any clear
impressions of them. The woman close to me moves in a way which resembles
an actress. She kind of poses like someone takes photos of her for a
fashion magazine of the older kind. Also, as she is quite slim that
strengthens the feeling of fashion.

I wonder for a moment if this is another retrieval starting, but things
never develop in that direction. But I have had one similar retrieval
so my association with retrievals is not totally off.

The time of day is at the afternoon, but there's still daylight outside,
even if the weather is very rainy and grey.

Shift of scene.

I now see an open town area, like a square or plaza. I'm having a bird's
eye perspective and I can see a woman running across the open town area.
The rain is falling heavier now. I can sense a few people at the edges of
my visual view, but the rain seems to have kept most people indoors.

I see the first woman again. Behind her in the rain, I can see la tour Eiffel,
the Eiffel Tower. That's a small surprise for me, because I seldom get
any information on where I am. Shift of scene.

I see a pair, a man and a woman. They walk towards me. The woman kind of
goes out of my field of view to my right, but the man I can see fairly well.

I estimate the man to be around 35, so the woman is probably of the same
age, because they seem fairly friendly. The man holds around the woman.
He also wears a hat, which is typical of the time.

The rain is really pouring down now. The man and woman are both wearing
raincoats, but I think they still get fairly wet both of them. The man
is never really looking towards me. The pair is walking on a very open
town area. I can't sense much of any buildings.

Shift of scene. I see a few corners of two or three houses. I then see
the headlights from a car front moving towards me.

Shift of scene. I'm back again at the walking man and woman. The scene
then repeats itself several times, maybe as many as 10 times.

At one moment I see a very broad avenue, where headlights from another car
moves towards me, but from a greater distance. To my right at the avenue
I sense at least two bridges with low stone walls to prevent pedestrians
from falling off the bridge. I just assume that these bridges are placed
across the Paris river Seine.

All those images of a rainy Paris seem to be during daytime, but with very
dark skies and grey surroundings. I get to see some more town scenes with
only few people running or walking in the rain, all wearing raincoats.


At most of the time in the rain I feel very calm and at ease. It makes me
feel quite good. I rest. Sometimes I wonder if I should pay more attention
to Monroe's comment, that we are short on time, but I really can't do much
to the PE as long as I am unable to get to the Garden.

At one occasion I actually get into a café in Paris. Then I'm back at the
Eiffel Tower.

My attempts to talk to people on the streets of Paris give no results.


La Tour Eiffel (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Tour_Eiffel_Wikimedia_Commons.jpg)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Tour_Eiffel_Wikimedia_Commons.jpg/324px-Tour_Eiffel_Wikimedia_Commons.jpg

---


Pierre Marcel

I'm in the rain, close to the Eiffel Tower. Then I move slightly up into
the air and watch the Eiffel Tower from a bird's perspective. I see a lawn.

It doesn't rain as much as before.

I look at the lawn in front of the Eiffel Tower. There seems to be some
people at the lawn.

The impression of the lawn makes me try to get to the Garden & Park, but
there is no go. I continue to stay at some distance from the Eiffel Tower.

I now have moved close down to the lawn. There is no longer any rain. The
lawn is very green, but I can't sense direct sunshine, but the day is
very lit up, so I guess that that there only are a few clouds in the sky.

I can see some young people at close range on the lawn. Some are laying
down, some stand up. I also notice that almost none of the persons, in the
age of about 25, wear any jackets. Most of the persons wear long sleeved
shirts, also the women. Perhaps they are students?

So the weather is fine and its an excellent day in front of the Eiffel
Tower. But what am I supposed to do?


I force myself back to the Garden and Park. I now sense my fellow PE
participants. I get to see and greet teagueblue, CFTraveler, IA56, Vicky,
Moen, Campbell and some more people I'm unsure who they are.

I do very brief attempts to help anyone else ask the questions before I
place myself in the queue.

And when I decide it's my time in the PE to ask the Main Questions, I
slide back to Paris and end up at the lawn in front of the Eiffel Tower.


One young woman walks in front of me on the lawn, she has a very fashionable
hair style. I see two men laying side by side on the lawn. I just guess they
all know each other, in total there is perhaps 5-10 persons at close range.

I notice that one of the young person, a dark haired man around 25, looks
at me. So far, none of the people in Paris has looked at me, at least not
for more than a brief moment. But this dark haired man looks a little
longer at my direction, almost like he can see me.

I ask for his name and almost immediately say "Pierre" to myself while I at
the same time see the name Marcel in my mind's eye. Does he have
two names? Pierre Marcel? I memorizes the names before I proceed as I'm
very deep into my session and have to float upwards a little or I will
easily forget such details as a person's name.


Pierre Marcel.

I now assume that he is a guide.

I begin to ask my questions to him. For most of the time Pierre Marcel
lazily lies on the lawn. There is a second man on the lawn close to Pierre,
but the second man never interacts with me.

When I ask my original Main Question I get some odd answers, more cryptic
than helping me. I forgot some details as I was deep into the session
and only tried to remember the important parts.

I also carried with me the strange answers from the day before, which I had
taken to the extent that I was unable to even talk about the existence of
Consciousness.

Little by little I managed to produce the right questions. On the way I have
already forgotten some of my less important questions and less important
answers I received.

I remember Pierre Marcel showing my a pillar of big brick stones and stating
that at one end physical reality was located and at the other end, several
bricks away, more than 10 bricks away, the "other" reality was located. I
asked him what some of the "double bricks" meant. Joints, he responded.
I can't really say that I understood his brick pillar symbolism.

At one time I see my colored glasses which I apparently use in a metaphorical
way to watch the world. I remember Monroe's glasses and I wonder why I
get to talk to Pierre.

I ask: "Why are you the one who answers my questions?"

Pierre Marcel answers: "I'm chosen as being the best choice. I have the
least colored glasses."

I notice that for a short moment Pierre Marcel wears a pair of colored
glasses, but his glasses only have mild shades of grey, there are no
rainbow colors in his glasses. But the lenses in Pierre's glasses have
not the exact same shades, they are off in shade from each other.

The next moment Pierre Marcel is again without glasses. His glasses never
re-appear during the remainder of our PE session.

---

(continued...)

[PauliEffect]

(...continued.)

Complicated Questions...

At some early moment I begin with question about Consciousness.

I ask: "If human Consciousness leaves matter, will physical matter still
exist?"

Pierre Marcel responds: "Yes, physical matter will still exist, even if
human Consciousness leaves matter."


I ask: "Does there exist some _other_ Consciousness in matter, some
Consciousness which is not human?"

Pierre Marcel responds: "Yes, there exists another Consciousness in
physical matter, Consciousness which is different to Human Consciousness."


Hmm..

I add more questions related to Human Consciousness and this _other_
Consciousness in physical matter. This is the result of my questions:


There seem to exist many different types of Consciousnesses.

Eventually I get the response about this _other_ Consciousness, which we
can call Low-Level-Consciousness (Low-Lev-Consc), that it's a quite different
kind of Consciousness.

I didn't ask about animals, but I just assume now that human
Consciousness and animal Consciousness are (almost?) the same.

Consciousness of humans is a certain kind of Consciousness. Things are
complicated. There are different kinds of Consciousness and they just
can't be put into the same basket. You just can't say that all is Data,
all is just Consciousness.

I got the impression that the Consciousness of for example rocks or
stones is different than this Low-Lev-Consc. I also got the impression
that Low-Lev-Consc had a very low degree of awareness, but I'm not
completely sure.


Low-Lev-Consc is part of all sub-atomic particles down to the lowest level.
I now understand why my concept of Consciousness was faulty at the
Saturday PE session, because I had assumed that there only existed
on type of Consciousness, because that's how Campbell and other
important authors have stated the existence of Consciousness.

I ask Pierre Marcel: "Can human Consciousness or a similar sort of
Consciousness move Low-Lev-Consc out of physical matter?"

Pierre Marcel responds: "No, we can't move Low-Lev-Consc, we can
only interact with Low-Lev-Consc, to a degree we can communicate with
Low-Lev-Consc. But we can't make it move."

I ask: "Will physical matter still exist if Low-Lev-Consc leaves
matter?"

Pierre Marcel, with some intensity: "It's not really a valid
question. You should view things another way. Low-Lev-Consc will
most likely never move out. Low-Lev-Consc is in matter."

I'm puzzled.

That was not a direct answer. I repeat my question several times, and each
time get a kind of rejection. I almost reach a level where I think my
question is as strange as asking if physical matter will still exist
if electrical charge moves out of all electrons.

But I persist.

I say: "You have to trust me. I'm sure that this question is important.
You have to answer. In this particular case, for me in physical reality,
it's important to get the answer. I sure I'm making the right decision
when I seek the answer. So, will physical matter still exist if Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter? Will it still exist?"

Pierre Marcel: "Well... We... I, don't know what to say. You want answer on
a question which could be formulated differently."

Somewhere around here, there could be a little hesitation from the guides'
side, not only because I might not understand the answer, but maybe because
I could create a belief system as well? It could get a lot of peoples'
glasses even more colored, instead of clearing up things?

I say: "I'm sure about my judgement. I will make the best of your answer.
So again, will physical matter still exist if Low-Lev-Consc leaves
matter?"

Pierre Marcel: "No. The physical universe will cease to exist as you
know it. But this will most likely never happen, so our response is
invalid. It's an invalid scenario. But if Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter,
residue will be left. Let us show you.


Matter.

I see a piece (?) of matter.

I see the whole universe or a sub-atomic particle. To see the world in
a grain of sand...

This piece, sub-atomic particle, whatever... I watch as Low-Lev-Consc leaves
matter. Low-Lev-Consc moves upwards like a cloud. What is left of physical
matter now breaks apart into two big chunks of stuff made out of
non-matter or some similar "substance".


Jeez..!

I react to this.

I had accepted Campbells claim that everything is just Data, Consciousness.
I had accepted that matter was left unchanged when Consciousness abandoned
matter.

But this..!? I hadn't anticipated this result at all.

I literally shake in whole my body. No puny pre-OBE vibrations. I get
real physical shakings in my hole body and partly shake out of my deep
session state as I look up into my bedroom ceiling as I jog and my
head physically reacts.


Physical matter will break if Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter.

I ask if our scientists will be able to detect this Low-Lev-Consc. I get
a collective laughing answer; scientists will not be able to detect
Low-Lev-Consc with current scientific methods used today.

Physical matter is made of a special type of Consciousness, Low-Lev-Consc
_and_ some other kind of "stuff". If Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter, something
is still left, some residue(s).

I wonder if any of the other PE participants got that? Anyway, they have
probably helped me get that answer, as I otherwise only would have gotten
dumbed down answers in Yes/No format.

Thank you fellow PE participants, both known and unknown!

---


Cleaning Up

There are some other questions left.

I ask: "If Low-Lev-Consc leaves matter and this residue is left as the
result, will 3-dimensional space cease to exist?"

Pierre Marcel says: "No, 3-dimensional space will still exist with
the 'residue', as you call it."

I continue: "This answer which you have given me, is in conflict with
Campbell's claim that all is Data only, Consciousness which is digital in
its nature. The TBC. What do you have to say about that?"

Pierre Marcel says: "Too simple. That model is too simple. Reality
is more complicated."


I felt sort of stoo-peed having been prepared to accept such a simple
model of reality. I wondered how much my colored glasses had compromised
Pierre Marcel's answers. Was he human at all?

I say: "You could be an alien with different background than me. Are
you really human?

Pierre Marcel responded with some pun: "I'm more human than you."


He made me laugh.

Well, that was a response.

But maybe he is true? Maybe my I-There or incarnation have more alien
elements to it, then Pierre has ever had? After all, I interact with
aliens at times.

---


The OBE Question

I'm a little tired, but continue with the second Main Question.

Why do many people have problems doing conscious OBEs and how can we
improve OBE ability? I first ask Pierre Marcel the question and he
just says that OBEs are "energy dependent". He tries to explain by
showing me spherical lumps with lots of knobs and he say that these
lumps symbolize energy centers. But I don't really feel helped.

I repeat my question and am suddenly transferred back to Robert Monroe.

He laughs, and also tells me that he is not really good at answering
that question. He was just good at doing OBEs, not on training people.

I almost get the impression that Monroe feels a little embarrassed to
have to answer my second Main Question.

I ask if we can train and improve our OBE ability, and get the response
from Monroe that we can't train OBE ability on our own. We have to get
help, either by having a purpose with doing OBEs, or we find a need for
doing OBEs. We can set intent to get better at OBEs and we will maybe
get help, but not really if there is no purpose with getting better
OBE ability.

But if we already are born with well developed OBE ability, well then
we have that ability and everything is fine.

We can initiate any attempt to improve OBE ability, but we will have
to rely on nonphysical Helpers to improve. That will take time.

Many answers from Monroe related to the second Main Question were a
little unclear to me.


Eventually I decide to quit.

I thank Monroe and move to the Garden and Park. I say bye-bye to everyone.
When I come to Campbell, he responds: "You're welcome."

---


This was a long report. Much was perhaps not so useful but I included it
out of completeness reason to the interested reader.

[IA56]

WoW Pauli what a good memory you have, thank you for your detailed report, I look forward to next one on december 16.

Love
ia

[PauliEffect]

Actually I forget a lot of things, too. But I often force myself to float up and recap,
I go through the last 4-5 events in a more awake state, before sinking back and
continuing. Then I take notes afterwards. The biggest loss of memory is actually
when I float up, when I leave a sort of sleeping meditative state, that's where I
forget most, where I lose most of the details. I also keep my eyes closed while
I recap, so I stay close to the sleepy meditative state, while re-remembering
events.

[PauliEffect]

Post PE-Queries8 session experiences & thoughts

The info in this post may be wrong, so keep a sceptic mind when
reading.

Some days after PE-Queries8 was finished, I had a session on
2012-11-30, with some strange responses, which I didn't like.
Later I also shortly managed to get some responses on 2012-12-06
and 2012-12-07 after fairly long and mostly unfruitful sessions.

So I hesitated to add these responses to the thread, but have now
decided to do so, in the hope anyone else will benefit from them
or take the effort to straighten out the question marks.

I'll put this post-PE-result on all forums where I've previously
made the PE-Queries8 call.

---


Some small details, probably unimportant

At most times when Tabitha (see PE-Alien6) has shown up, she has emerged
from the left of my non-visual field, with the right side of her face
towards me in half-profile. I don't know if her appearance matters,
but I mention it anyway in case it could show any significance.

I've also called her and similar aliens, the Albino Aliens, but
they have only appeared white and light grey to me, and have
always had big black eyes (not albino red, as is the case
with most of Earth's albinos).


When I spoke to Pierre Marcel at the lawn of the Eiffel Tower,
I asked him one question which resulted in me wondering if he
was alien. It just went like this.

Me asking: "Are you part of my I-There?"

Pierre Marcel: "No."

Perhaps not very important, but that was the response which made
me wonder if Pierre Marcel came from outside of Earth.


Also, when I were at "my-place" during PE-Queries8, more than once,
the ground at the beach line rose, like the ground was moved up
by a slowly moving landslide/earthquake.

I don't know what that meant, but it felt like the part of the
ground, close to the ocean, moved in a huge wave like motion,
forcing the beach to form into a slope, down towards the water.

The ground raise could be the result of symbolism or "energy movements".
Perhaps I was just "moved" to another nonphysical place?

---


Low-Level-Consciousness & Primitive-Stone-Consciousness

During the week after PE-Queries8, a chat friend of mine asked about
the difference between the Consciousness of a stone and that of
Low-Lev-Consc. My friend also asked what happened to the stone's
Consciousness if the stone was divided into two halves. I made
a response, which was mostly a guess, on what I thought was
reasonable at the time.

Later that week, on 2012-11-30, I asked the same question to one
of my guides and found out that my initial guess was wrong (I'll
refrain from repeating my faulty assumption).

The answer I got from my guide, made me doubt what I picked up, as
my guide's response didn't quite fit with my idea of Consciousness.
So I have to point out that my guide's answer was:

A. Not as clear a message as those I got during PE-Queries8.
B. Possibly wrong, I may be completely wrong, picking up things poorly.
C. Only partly understandable.
D. A test (?) in some kind of way, by my guides.
E. (other issues?)


I have to introduce the concept of a stone's Consciousness, and I'll
call that; Primitive-Stone-Consciousness (Prim-Stone-Consc). The choice
of name may be bad as Prim-Stone-Consc doesn't seem to apply to stones
alone, but I have no other good name. I would also like if someone
really good at asking guides questions, would pick my claims apart,
as they don't fit well into what I want to believe.

My impression is that Prim-Stone-Consc is a fairly "high" Consciousness
compared to Low-Lev-Consc. And still, Prim-Stone-Consc is a quite dim
Consciousness compared to human Consciousness.


Low-Lev-Consc permeates all of universe, is my impression. There may be
slight shifts in Low-Lev-Consc, but as a total, all over our physical
universe, Low-Level-Consc is the same one (?) Consciousness at sub-atomic
particle level. I also think that Low-Lev-Consc is almost unaffected
by heat (like inside a sun) or exposed to concentration like inside
the heavy matter of a black hole. Low-Lev-Consc may also be directly
connected to the various forces of nature, like gravity and electrical
charge, but I don't really know. Low-Lev-Consc is part of everything,
including dark energy/matter and photons.

---


The post-PE-Queries8 responses

I saw a guide who looked like my Greek Hector guide, but it may have
been a different guide as he seemed smaller in stature this time.

Anyway, I asked: "If you break a stone into two halves will the stone's
Consciousness also be divided?"

Hector guide: "No. There will still be one stone Consciousness."

Anyway, I asked: "If you break a stone into two halves will any part of
the stone's Consciousness disappear from the stone halves?"

Hector again: "No."

That was a surprise to me, the Consciousness of the two separated stone
halves would still be the same Consciousness and shared by both of the
stones (stone halves). I continued with questions about Prim-Stone-Consc.


I asked: "Does water have a different Consciousness than Prim-Stone-Consc?"

Hector guide: "No. Water has the same Consciousness as stone."

Ohh, that sounded really strange, I repeated my question but got the
same answer. Same Consciousness. I tried something else.


I asked: "Does molten lava have a different Consciousness than Prim-Stone-Consc?"

Hector guide: "Yes."

I asked: "Does this mean that all stone on Earth has the same
Consciousness?"

Hector guide, hesitated: "That's... Yes."


I continued: "Does stone on Earth and stone on planet Mars have the
same Consciousness?"

Hector guide, hesitated: "No. Stones on different planets have different
Consciousnesses"


As you can see, these responses don't match up. For example, I can't
understand why water and stone would have the _same_ Prim-Stone-Consc.
I also don't understand why molten lava in such a case would have a
_different_ Consciousness than Prim-Stone-Consc.

I want to point out that these follow-up responses were not as clearly
perceived as those I got during PE-Queries8, so there are lots of room
for error. I wanted to report it anyway, as it's related to Consciousness
and I hope that someone else will check it out.

---


Later on 2012-12-06 and 2012-12-07 I repeated some of my questions.
This time my guide looked like the TV-series Stargate asgard Thor.

I asked if Prime-Stone-Consc is the same Consciousness as water.

Thor answered both in words and showing a sign: "Yes...No"

I noted that I couldn't perceive any ending dot after the capital No,
in the sign Thor held in front of his chest. I asked more specific
about water and stone Consciousness and got the answer that they are
almost the same, but not identical. The answer is one of those unclear
responses that make me wonder what part of the answer I failed to
pick up correctly. What does the word "almost" mean in this context?

I also got the strange answer that there exists matter in the universe,
matter which has no other Consciousness than Low-Lev-Consc. But I got
the further response that as soon as atoms form, some kind of higher
level of Consciousness (for example Prim-Stone-Consc) enters the atoms.


---


Bell's Theorem

I may not be completely on the spot here, so view my words as mostly
speculative. I got some faint "knowings" during my Hector-guide session,
but I also have made some thinking afterwards. So there is a lot of
colored-glasses-ideas going on from my side. :)

This section is related to Bell's theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell%27s_theorem).

Bell's theorem is related to quantum entanglement, which in itself
is very strange for me to understand.

Bell's theorem states that either one or both of classic physic's principles
are wrong. The first principle is realism; the Moon still exists
even when you don't look at it. Campbell rejects realism, as I got it.
The second principle says that to get any behaviour from elementary
particles, they have to react to "local variables". Campbell's view on
Consciousness, leaves out the need for local variables.

Bell's theorem says that there are no _hidden_ local variables, which
can explain all quantum physical events.

So...

Could there be any non-local, meaning global, variables?

Well, yes, Low-Lev-Consc could take on the role of a hidden global variable.

For example F DeMarco, when he talks to The Guys Upstairs (TGU),
they say that there is no greater distance from them (TGU) to DeMarco,
than there is from TGU to aliens millions of light years away.

I have the feeling that the same principle applies for Low-Lev-Consc. There
is at some level no great distance between different part of physical
reality if you go through Low-Lev-Consc.

And by skipping the problem of distance and not needing any local hidden
variables (which Bell's theorem also rejects), and instead using the
"global" variable (or rather, property) of Low-Lev-Consc, you could
explain why entanglement works "faster-than-light-speed".

During my later Thor-guide sessions I got confirmation that Low-Lev-Consc
is "responsible" for maintaining the entanglement between photons, but
at that time my glasses had turned purple of beliefs. :)


Finally comes the problem of detecting and proving the existence of
Low-Lev-Consc, describing its properties in more exact quantities.
That's a much harder issue. :)

[CFTraveler]

Fascinating, Pauli. You seem to get into a lot of deep themes in these adventures. I'll keep the 'problem' of consciousness and Bell's Theorem in mind the next time I do a deep projection with time and opportunity.

[PauliEffect]

It was a puzzling experience.

I also got that Prim-Ston-Consc does not reincarnate, it always just is
in a state of presence or existence. But that also makes me wonder
what happens when the Consciousness of molten lava, leaves, and is
replaced by Prim-Ston-Consc. Does Prim-Ston-Consc "grow" in
quantity for example, as more stone is added from lava?

I hope I haven't front-loaded people with too much concepts. :)

It would be interesting with some more input from someone else, as
my regular RV attempts have been poor. And that makes me wonder
if I make the PE all up or if I really get any info from other beings.

[IA56]

Pauli, the deep feeling I get when reading your posts, is that when there is a reaction, or cirkumstances changes, like via fire, then all "consiusness" take´s a jump or leap and changes to other consiusness, or takes another form....

[PauliEffect]

IA56, you are probably on to something. :)


Also, I found more interesting ideas on Linn's Forum, LaughingRain wrote (http://www.spiritlinnsforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=766&start=10#p4992):

"I would say it differently, to say a stone does not know it's a stone, like a human knows that it is
a human. A stone does not have "I am That, I am." it is like a cat does it's catting. a stone does it's
stoning, but this is not to say a stone can have a baby stone or make two of it's own self by splitting
into. it's essence cannot produce individuality, like animals and people can be individual in becoming
a character or personality." (end of quote)

---


I have come to think, that not only do I have Low-Lev-Consc as part in my physical self,
but I must also have Prim-Ston-Consc inside of me, as each time I drink water I get a
little of it into me. :)

---


Campbell writes (http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1570#p1570) something about stones, he uses the word "consciousness" a lot, and I wonder if
Campbell actually means "awareness" in some places, when he talks about rocks, but I'm uncertain:

"Don't confuse consciousness with an artifact of consciousness. A rock is an artifact of consciousness,
a perception that comes with a rule-set, but that does not make the rock conscious."


and later, Campbell continues (http://www.my-big-toe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2489#p2489):

"...rocks are not conscious -- they have no decision space in which to exercise free will. However,
conscious entities can attach meaning, i.e., information, to inanimate objects (sentimental or otherwise).
Then the object appears to act like an automatic URL redirector to the consciousness energy associated
with that object. The object, or rock in this discussion, itself is not actually holding or storing the
information or redirecting anything -- the rock is simply a symbol, an association (like a tab on a
folder, or perhaps a file name) contained within one or more units of individuated consciousness.
Thus if one powerful individual or many less powerful people have a strong association (great energy
or emotion or strong belief with a clear and focused intent) with a given object, that object may become
a "power object" with apparent "powers" — historically, a magical, or enchanted, or sacred object. The
Power does not really flow from the object, but from the consciousness associated with the object. Power
objects are rare — even a very large number of people with strong feelings but normally scattered
consciousnesses will not assemble enough coherency and consistency behind an intent to leave much of
a lasting residue.

Quartz crystals have the property of oscillating at a precise frequency related to their size and structure
when energized by an electric potential. That is how your digital watch works (the electric potential is
provided by the battery). Their attractive appearance, high tech electrical properties, and association
with the word frequency makes them cooler than ordinary rocks and thus the New age community has
adopted them. That they are just rare enough to support a good price but are not too hard to get doesn't
hurt either. Of course, the placebo effect is a real effect — mind follows intent. Beside the placebo effect
and a potential application of the power-object effect, crystals do not, as some claim, amplify life-force
energy." (end of this quote)

---


Well, after PE-Queries8, I have to view the world a little differently than before. It's interesting to read
others ideas too. Anyway, for me, Low-Lev-Consc and Prim-Ston-Consc are realities. At the same time
I can't say I'm right.

Others will have to explore in order to verify or make new findings. :)

[IA56]

Pauli, I did miss-understand your request, you wanted to hear about our oppinion of low lev cons...I have very very strong feeling because I can´t say memory because you can not talk about memory in low lev cons....it is a feeling of knowing of the low lev cons which is...knowing of the existence but not as a memory but a hunch...I know I have bean a flower so I also undersand that we have developet from low lev cons...and if we do not care to develop further we do degenerat back to this low lev cons and then start again when we do get back our feel for life again...this is my cent´s ...As Martinius talk´s and Alexander Markus.

I did before answere how it developes further to more consiusness...from mineral and plant´s to animals and humans.