explict dream left with wonder and guilt

[Dais]

I had an all to real dream one of those you think is just another day. I will start by saying I m a sadist and youll see why I stated that.

The dream started out with me walkin up a gravel drive way. the house was red and built on the edge of a rock mass over looking the ocean. I could feel my feet on the gravel and i could smell the salt water. I then procceded in to the house thier I met a pretty young girl who i saw very clearly and deatailed. She was small with golden hair and fair skin.(more details on request).
We started fooling around and one thing led to another. Well we got to the sex. I as always I got aggresive Once things got going she tried to get away from me. I could feel her pushing away and i heard her telling me she had to leave. I froced her to say and finished. After lights came though the window she said bye and she was gone. then i woke up.

now heres the weird part. The next day I tried to project back to that place and I pulled it off I was thier now i didnt think it acualy worked. But any way I tried to recreate the girl I couldnt, I saw only her basic fetures with no face. and when i went to open my eyes i was hit by that shrinking into your self feeling.

well with that being said I think I actully raped a girl in a spontanious projection. So I sincerly appolagise to the girl. I try my best to make sure my victems are willing. I really need an opion here.

[Gemma]

I had an all to real dream one of those you think is just another day. I will start by saying I m a sadist and youll see why I stated that.

Are you really a sadist in life or was that just in the dream?

[sash]

Since you asked for an interpretation in another thread I think it is not much more than your internal desires (whether conscious or subconscious) playing out in the dream scape.

I would question whether the girl was real or a projection made up. Whether real or not it is also possible she was there to evoke a certain desire.

If you make a habit of this and if the projections are driven there to evoke these desires you are not doing much more than fabricating illusive fantasies, and if these are real people who have projected then it is not a good idea to continue this process.
Having sex too much in the astral plane can lead to lowering of overall energies and losing abilities to experience fruitful projections altogether.
If you are able to project you could achieve more than getting caught up in this pattern (that's my opinion).

Here is an article that might be of interest: http://www.astraldynamics.com/search.as ... enceID=171 (http://www.astraldynamics.com/search.asp?Search=%20&Type=1&ReferenceID=171)

[Dais]

thanks guys that was helpful info

and yes Im a sadist in real life.

Most of my dreams are violent more then my desires go I also am a trained fighter and constantly have to fight all sorts of beings not just humans in my dreams since I started meditating it has increased much. I need help in controling this it is getting out of hand. I do love violence but the idea of hurting unwilling people really bothers me. In real life all my victems are willing mashochist.

I DO NOT HURT PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT IT.

[sash]

You could be causing serious damage to yourself irrespective of that statement. As I said in the prior post, it looks like you have got quite a lot of energy. It would be of benefit to externalize it in a constructive manner. That is just an opinion and personal experience however.

[Dais]

I have been told by martial artists and psychics and also meditation teachers that have have an intense amount of energy that isnt any one type of energy.

How can I learn to control this and put a positive use to it. I know most of the basic techs. But i need some kind of traning that will help me control and organize my energy.

Hi Dais,
I would like to point out some of the words that you have used....sadist, sex, aggressive, forced, rape, victim, violent, fighter, unwilling people, masochist. An "intense amount of energy" does not automatically translate to these things. There are plenty of people who have intense amounts of energy who do not use these words in describing themselves and their feelings. As Sash said, there are much better ways to channel your energy. The question is, do you really want to. From what you've described, it sounds like the life choices and lifestyle you have is contributing to your problems. If your life is full of sadism, then your dreams will probably be, too. Is that what you want? Or, do you feel helpless to control it. If you wish to change, I think it's beyond any advice someone can give to you on an internet site. I would say to seek professional help if you are looking for a better way to channel your energy. Just talking to someone with some experience in this can be a tremendous help. Someone who is non-judgemental and doesn't have any pre-conceived ideas of what is going on with you. Someone you can trust and has dealt with this before. Serious change requires serious action. Not just a venting of your dreams on a forum.

[Dais]

I understand exactly what u are saying painter but my life is not filled with sadism. I love helping people and most of my life evoles around doing that. The only thing i want is love and knowlaged. the only sadist acts I actully take part in is with my girlfriend and we both find love and passion in hurting each other thier is no fear and we are both willing the pain is great for both of us.

I love only the art of fight not the act of violence. I also love challenge and I only find it in my martial arts.

Im also a masochist I do nothing to anyone that i wouldnt let them do to me.

But my dreams arnt about me hurting people its about others and thier derranged minds. I usely end up stalking killers in my dreams or tourturing petafiles. But sometimes

I cant help but rape some one in a dream(and its not offten I know I warn any girl in life and in dreams of what I might do.) I have never raped anyone in real life.

[sash]

What are your goals in dreams, and astral projections? Is what you listed above your intention, or something that just happens (that you have no control over)? Is this what you want to achieve out of astral projection and dreaming, or if not then what is something you would want to achieve? If you are left with a feeling of guilt do you think that means that you regret it, would you change/take back this dream if given the opportunity to?

[CFTraveler]

If you feel that you have no self-control in the Astral, then you have something to strive for through your practice. However, if it is some sort of wish-fulfillment scenario, then you have to be very careful, because it's really easy to cross the line and lose control in waking life.

[Dais]

Its not a case that I dont have control over myself I m fully aware of what im doing in my dreams the majority of the time. Like I said before the viloence that i get in volved in is never started by me. Or I end up fighting to protect some one. Last night I had a long and very lucid dream. At one point i was walking dow a long hall that lead into a stair way. I saw a man beating up a child I ran over and beat the crap out of the guy. Later when ever I ran into poeple in the dream they remebered me helping the girl. Thier were alot of people around when I helped her y didnt they help her I dont know.

And as far as what regret I have none. And as far as what I want out of projection is to learn and meet poeple and help people. that and I love all living things and hope to be able to help beings other then humans.

IM NOT SOME CONFUSED SADIST I KNOW WHAT IM DOING.
I felt bad the one time about raping that girl.

My dreams are filled with other people doing derranged things and I also try to help the victems or people just come and pick fights with me.
I dont want to hurt anyone but people that deserve it.
And when I say people that deserve it I mean killers and sickos.

Almost every week I have atlest one or two dreams of me Killing pigs(disgusting people).

[Tom]

The trouble with anger and violence is that the more energy you put into them, the more you draw circumstances to yourself that will provoke the same kind of response. Angry people are much better at landing in situations that make them angry than people who are primarily happy. Dealing with feelings of anger by confronting them directly leads to more of the same because it is also just feeding the anger. Trying to force yourself to be patient will have the same result. Recently I bought a book that came with a cassete ( http://www.freesoul.net/index.php?subme ... 64691ba822 (http://www.freesoul.net/index.php?submenu=SelfStudy&src=gendocs&link=Newest%20Book&PHPSESSID=ff879d80c98c885eb325b464691ba822) ) on how to activate a part of the brain that is about the limbic system and useful for stopping strong negative emotions. The technique is fairy easy to initially learn, as I'm finding, but that it takes a few months to fully benefit from it and to remember to actually use it when it is needed most. I'm suggesting it for everyone, really, now that I'm starting to actually get results. It is a lot easier and more reliable than the "amygdala clicking" I keep reading about and a lot safer to use because there is much less of a possibility of triggering anger, fear, or depression by hitting the wrong part of the limbic system.

[Dais]

Thank you tom for giving me advice that didnt make me look like a stupid lost sadist.
I have contemplated the idea of just tring to fight negativity brings me more challenges. And i belive in doing bad things brings bad things on to you. KARMA RULES like that. but I wonder is it that I face conflict head on is a bad thing or should i just dismiss bad feelings.

I dont have a problem with feeling good but I have a problem with letting bad things happen to me or others like I keep saying in my dreams Im ussally protecting the weak or fighting punks and pigs people.

Is it wrong for me to feel as thow the innocent should be save and the wicked should be punished. thats pretty much what gose on in my dreams.
But i do admit that I thoughly enjoy doing horriable things to horriable people. Example Beating up a bully.

[CFTraveler]

Thank you tom for giving me advice that didnt make me look like a stupid lost sadist. My apologies if any of what I said sounded judgemental, it's just that some of us might have struggled with your definition of what a sadist is. There is the definition involving sexual activity, and then there is the definition, in general terms, in someone who enjoys making other people suffer. From the outset you identified yourself as a sadist, and I for one took the meaning to be 'in general', and that of course, colored the perception that I had about you. It wasn't until later, when you clarified the meaning, that we understood that you weren't a bully looking for victims. Especially when you stated just so- that you wouldn't hurt anyone that didn't want it. So that made me even more confused.


I dont have a problem with feeling good but I have a problem with letting bad things happen to me or others like I keep saying in my dreams Im ussally protecting the weak or fighting punks and pigs people. There is nothing wrong with this- everyone is like that to some extent.


But i do admit that I thoughly enjoy doing horriable things to horriable people. Example Beating up a bully. Once again, the question to ask is: Do you enjoy it out of a sense of justice, are you full of anger towards something that was done to you? Or is there something going on other than that? That's what I would be concerned about.

[Tom]

There was a time when the only time I ever felt fully alive was when I was angry. Being angry and wanting to hurt people felt good. It wasn't until there were other things that felt equally rewarding that I was able to set aside being angry so much of the time. Even now, though, if something startles or surprises me enough my first response is to be angry. It doesn't last as long when it happens and the consequences are never as severe. It used to be that after losing my temper I'd get physically ill within a day or two to the point of throwing up and having to crawl to get around. Now it just gives me a stiff neck and a tension headache for a few hours. Actually, I was mistaken to feel like being angry felt like being more alive than usual. What I could not see was that when I lost my temper my field of vision narrowed, my hearing became dull, and my mental range of motion was also constricted. The world narrowed down to me and whatever I was angry at. Next, I dropped away followed by (a person, usually) whatever triggered that anger. Nothing was left but the anger itself and it would burn for a while after everything and everyone was gone. All sorts of things like school and friends and family and other real world problems would lose their importance and their immediacy. It was so rewarding that I kept falling into it even knowing I'd be violently ill to pay for it.

Hi again, Dais,
Dais said:

I will start by saying I m a sadist

And as far as what regret I have none. And as far as what I want out of projection is to learn and meet poeple and help people. that and I love all living things and hope to be able to help beings other then humans.
Thanks for clearing that up. :D
You are posting on a spiritual site. This does not mean that alternate views are unacceptable. We try as hard as we are able to let anyone speak their mind. But, when you come on a forum such as this, you can be sure you are going to get spiritual recommendations to your questions. No one (to my knowledge) is here to make any kind of judgements about choices you make for your life. Most of the people here are very tolerant in their views. But, pose a problem...you'll get a lot of advice. No one tried to make you look like a "stupid lost sadist". But, not explaining yourself fully can lead to a lot of misunderstandings.
Dais said:

Is it wrong for me to feel as thow the innocent should be save and the wicked should be punished.
There is no right or wrong here, only what is best for you in the long run. Only you can make that choice. Consider that maybe the "wicked" are punishing themselves, that the "innocent" will be taken care of in the grand scheme of things, and that what is best for you may have nothing to do with either the "wicked" or "innocent". Just maybe what you interpret as wicked might not be in someone else's viewpoint. A case in point is your belief that sadism is ok. There are plenty of other's who would disagree with that. Does that make them right? No, it only makes them right from their own perspective. In view of that, I would say that you have the ability to determine for yourself what path you need to choose for your evolvement. Personally, I would go with Tom's recommendation. Like does seem to draw like. Or, to put it another way, what you put out returns to you. So, think about what you would like to return to you, and act on that. I think your dreams might just follow.

Ummm...I would like to say that I just noticed that CF, Tom, and I cross-posted. I don't want you to get the impression that you are being ganged up on. None of us knew the other was posting at the time.

[Gemma]

Ummm...I would like to say that I just noticed that CF, Tom, and I cross-posted. I don't want you to get the impression that you are being ganged up on. None of us knew the other was posting at the time.

Yeah but doesn't that tell you something?! ;)

Yes, it tells me that we all cared to take the time to try to help him out in whatever way we knew based on the information given, and the fact that he asked for help.

[Gemma]

Yes, it tells me that we all cared to take the time to try to help him out in whatever way we knew based on the information given, and the fact that he asked for help.

That too, but what I really meant was that the fact that all 3 of you cross-posted means that there must be a lot of truth in what you three said. So it would be wise for him to take note. :) That's all.

[Freawaru]

Hi Dais,

that is a strange dream. Dunno, if it was a real projection or a symbolic dream.


I had an all to real dream one of those you think is just another day. I will start by saying I m a sadist and youll see why I stated that.

The dream started out with me walkin up a gravel drive way. the house was red and built on the edge of a rock mass over looking the ocean.


Red is often thought of as an emotional color, symbolizing anger or agression or - indeed - sex.



I could feel my feet on the gravel and i could smell the salt water.


Feet, a symbol for chakras and also a strong dream symbol - but I just can't recall the meaning, have to look it up. Bare feet - for example - are a typical dream metaphor of being vulnerable but also not shielded against either bad or good (remember that part in the Bible where the Lord ordered Moses to put of the shoes cause he was on holy grounds?).

Water/ocean: another symbol for emotions.



I then procceded in to the house thier I met a pretty young girl who i saw very clearly and deatailed. She was small with golden hair and fair skin.(more details on request).


Why was she there? Sounds as if she was waiting for you.



We started fooling around and one thing led to another. Well we got to the sex. I as always I got aggresive Once things got going she tried to get away from me. I could feel her pushing away and i heard her telling me she had to leave. I froced her to say and finished. After lights came though the window she said bye and she was gone. then i woke up.


I am no expert but it somehow does strike me as strange that she said bye. I mean why didn't she just run away once she could?



now heres the weird part. The next day I tried to project back to that place and I pulled it off I was thier now i didnt think it acualy worked. But any way I tried to recreate the girl I couldnt, I saw only her basic fetures with no face. and when i went to open my eyes i was hit by that shrinking into your self feeling.


She got from you what she wanted. Thus she did not return.



well with that being said I think I actully raped a girl in a spontanious projection. So I sincerly appolagise to the girl. I try my best to make sure my victems are willing. I really need an opion here.

Okay, my opinion - only based on what you wrote - is that if it truely was a projection she prepared the scenery and waited for (maybe even pulled) you there. The symbols are too strong and all pointing to the same direction.

The question remains *what* did she want? The sex? Possible, but somehow I think she would have returned then. Considering your present thoughts and pondering and bad conscience and your usual slayer behaviour (a la Buffy ;-) ) in dreams I think it possible that she wanted to get you to exactly this point of bad conscience. To feel how it is to be the "bad" guy, who had done wrong. After all, in this dream you were the kind of guy you usually hunt, right?

Just speculations ;-)

[Dais]

I spent s large chunk of my life atleast 7 solid years consumed by hate and despise. I became consumed by it. Untill finnally I became focused under these conditions. I soon realized why I hated so much and the intracit reasons behind my emotions. But then power came from the focused rage. the controled and logical hatred. I was stronger at that time then ever before I was feared and respected by peers and elders.

Then one day siting in a tranqual place i was hit by an opifany I had realized that spite my honor and have just cause for my hate that it was wrong to allow my self to be consumed and in doing that I was becoming what I hated.

So I then moved on. I hate no single being I hate only ignorence and hope to help stop fools from them selves.

Now I will give the final defination of my own sado/mashicism.
I dont like to make people suffer but I love to inflict pain on those that wish it. the idea of physicaly hurting the people I love is more passonate then holding hands so to say I have had and given orgasim from pain alone and that to me beats any normal physical act of love.. I also love to inflict pain on those that wish to hurt others for my own desires and a sense of justice. Slaughter the pigs I say.
well thats the simmered down version.

[Dais]

I wanted to mention some thing that I feel is significant in me getting help.
A fairly good healer/psychic told me that i may actualy have some kind of demon or I am some kind of demon on some level.

Now the other night before speaking with this person I was meditating and gathering energy. after a while of things going well my body started feeling more relaxed then after a few more moments I was flashed by an image of the face of a raging bloody vampire just a flash it didnt even break my trance but it did confuse the hell out of me because I was feeling pretty good up until the flash.

Now a few weeks prior to this incedent I was attack by this being in a dream and it was extreamly realistic. I could feel him tring to steal my energy not my blood when he was fighting me. I then said to hell with you I attacked him and tried to steal his energy he then ran away and i woke up.

Last night i tried to project looking in a mirrior/my body in bed
After a few minutes i was able to see my self looking in the mirror but i started to change shape and i was beging to feel it I then gave that up real quick. My face stared to get long like a lizard kinda an the back of my head started to form out like horns. that when i looked away.

All these events I feel are tied to gether some how

Dais,
I seriously doubt that you yourself are a demon. Otherwise, what would be the point of making steps to improve your life that you have? I understand how easy it is to turn to anger and thoughts of destruction when you or someone you love has been harmed. I'm not talking out my a.. here. I was raped at 16 and later watched my dad emotionally destroy my mother to the point of her death and then he committed suicide. So, I'm not a stranger to the darker side of life. I will tell you that my life improved tremendously after letting go of the anger and the need for retribution. It does nothing but bring harm to yourself. "Getting even" can be very detrimental to yourself. Not only emotionally, but especially spiritually.

I have no judgements one way or the other regarding your sadism. I have worked very hard to come to a place of non-judgement. Not saying that I've completely reached it, but I'm considered by family, friends and acquaintences to be very accepting of people, regardless of their choices. But, I do have strong beliefs that we attract whatever energy we put out. And, if you are putting out the energy of vengence and retribution, you are putting out a darker energy. With the consequence that you are going to draw that to you. This is what happens in mob mentality. In sports, if several people decide it's ok to throw things at the players, you'll very often see others feeling it's ok, too. Then, it's not a far stretch to find an entire mob of people rioting and throwing things at the players and each other. Fights then break out. The amount of negative energy just seems to escalate, because people are creating it, with others feeding off of it. The same is true for a spiritual retreat. I've been to ones where the energy in the air was so thick with love that just walking into the room can make you cry for joy.

So, what I'm trying to say is that if you want certain things to change in your life, look around and see what you are doing that is holding you back. Don't look at it from the standpoint of "well, I like doing this and that". Take the emotion out of it and look at it from a perspective outside of yourself. And, see if you notice a difference in the two viewpoints. Then, decide which one you want to go with. Neither of them are "wrong". It's a matter of choosing what it is you ultimately want. What is the grandest vision of yourself that you want to be?

[Dais]

Thank you all of you I have taken in to account all your opions and I swear I feel the love and desire to help when I read your words.

I think I have made a break thought with this on going issue of mine. I started doing specific meditations for love and compassion and I have looked at myself and my desires in a none emotinal manner. I learn that my own sadism is a result of not showing love to others for so long and a natural desire to consume power and to right wrong. I know that I love challenge and see grwoth and enlightenment in defeating these challenges.
As far as the demon goes I feel that it is just a side of me that has formed its own views on the world and that in my meditations I have become one with them. I have gained much insite in the last few days about myself and my goals even though I still desire to hurt the ones I love I dont make them suffer. physical pain is so exhilerating and I can feel love and passion in the pain.
I have also made a friend in my recent meditations and I can feel the love from it at all times. A tree that lives in my yard. He is kind and shareing to me.
I just want to say thank you again to you all for helping me I have love for you all.
THANK YOU THANK YOU SO MUCH
even though I really did it myself the idea of others tring to help me helped me. So thank you all

[Freawaru]

Dais,

while I do not buy into sado-maso games myself I do not see any harm in them either - provided that both sides want and enjoy them. Biologically there is a certain mechanism that floods the body with endorphins and morphins to counterbalance pain. You might remember being surprised to find you have been hurt (scratches, blue spots, whatever) while doing sports *afterwards*. While the the physical body is pumping those chemicals through itself pain is reduced and feeling good is enhanced - it is a survival mechanism that makes sure your mind and body work properly even when a bit damaged. The same happens f.e. during other very painfull times like giving birth, etc.

It seems, though, that for some people this counter-pain chemicals are flooded into the body more early than for others. Thus, for them, pain is close to pleasure. The internally created chemicals produce ecstasy that enhances the orgasm. The sadism becomes then a way of empathy, of giving pleasure rather than recieving it.

This said, IMO there is nothing wrong with being a sadist as long as you find a masochist as partner, i.e. someone who shares your pain-pleasure biology.

As to the demon, according to many mystics from Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism we all have demons inside. In a way, this is the definition of being human. The question is: who is in comand? Is it one (or several) demons or is it YOU? When anger rules your life, the anger is in control - not you. Same for all other demons. The inner wars between good and evil, the struggle for control over ones demons and devils is our heritage, this is how we are - as humans.

You might remember that Buddhas and arahats (saints) are often pictured as standing on demons with their feet. This symbolizes they have won over the demon, they rule the demon - but they did not destroy it.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Freawaru, sorry for laughing, but I couldn't help it. In the interest of hoping to educate, I would like to explain something to you. You obviously have never given birth. :shock: LOL! I have and it is absolutely painful. Excruciating. Nope. No endorphins giving pleasure there. I'm a tiny bit of an expert here. I am a Registered Labor and Delivery Nurse. Never once have I seen a woman not either screaming or writhing in pain. I also took a Lamaze class in the mid 70's where we were lead down the primrose path to believe that we could overcome the pain by the breathing exercises. Nope. Never seen that happen with any of my patients who took Lamaze or myself. I'm sure somewhere out there in the great wide world is a woman or two who have experienced pain-free childbirth, but it's definitely not the norm. My understanding of biology is that when endorphins kick in, it is short lived. Most births average around 12 hours for the first baby. Sports and accidents, yeh, maybe. But, usuallly short lived endorphins. But, interesting perspective. :D

[sash]

I should probably point out in case it helps that negs 'love' any kind of violence, this kind is not separable, and in fact I've noticed negs seem to be attracted to all emotional activity.

Apart from this I would not have a problem with such avenues of expression either, a while ago I was encouraged to do therapeutic anger release in a "constructive" manner. However I found the effect is in actual manifesting and is to negs like blood to a shark in shallow waters.

It might be of aid to keep this prevalent on your agenda (re the demon and other curiously inclined concerns).

Keep in mind that there will always be people out there who will be glad to support you or help you throughout your path, this is an important asset in both knowledge and practice.

[Freawaru]

I KNOW Patty, I KNOW it is painfull - but try giving birth without the endorphins and morphins and whatever stuff there is: you would pass out. The endorphin release is different for different women (and different births), too.

A friend of mind gave birth to two children. She told me there was a real high during the first, not during the second, though. My own daughter came by a cesarian due to some problems, so I have not much own prolonged experience but I heard enough stories during the preparation time.

Patty, you might not believe it but I do think before I post.

[Dais]

I just wanna step back in here.
I never ment to give the impression that I thought that I was a demon.
I just ment that I have many inner demons or sides of my self that are evil to say. I have also taken control of the demons and have grown in strenght from becoming one with them or letting them take control(black out fighting ability). I have blacked out in fights and come back and all my foes were well.....I'll just leave it to imagination.

As far as the body deals with pain I understand fully about the endophines that the body puts out. I also know that this happens much faster when fear is not involved in the act of delivering and reciveing of pain. The mind will increase or decrease the pain delivered to it according to perceptions of how the person wishes to feel it.
Example(When I got my frist tattoo it was very painful at frist then I felt the endorphines rise from my skin and it felt good.)
When I went to get my seconed tattoo I forced my body not to numb the pain for me so I could feel it and boy oh boy it was great from start to end.
Or we could always use good ol kids for an example. Ever see a kid run full on into a wall and get up and lagh then scrape thier knee and start crying.
Fear and will play a large roll hear. but it is also a natural survival mech for the body to try and protect its self such as adrealin, endorphies, reflexs ect.

[Dais]

I also wanted to say I think were getting into diffrent topics here. Im no longer seeking help since Ive solved this problem for myself with the help of all of you. But I think were haveing a very good talk here.
So if any one wants me to just start another thread about Inner demons and vampire kinda thinking I would love to start a thread about this stuff and possiably get more people involved by giveing a new main topic title. or something like that.

Because we are not talking about dreams anymore.
Well suggestions?

Dais, how the heck did you do this?

When I went to get my seconed tattoo I forced my body not to numb the pain for me so I could feel it and boy oh boy it was great from start to end.

I've had cosmetic eyeliner tattoed on my eyes twice, and I thought I was gonna die! :shock: I tried self hypnosis, but that lasted about 10 seconds. I'm such a baby when it comes to pain. Even the woman who was doing the tattoing called me a baby. :lol: How do you do it? I could really use some tips.

Freawaru, I'm sorry that I offended. I didn't mean to, I was trying to be funny, but it obviously didn't come out right. You're right about endorphins. If only they would last. *Sigh* I was a big baby during childbirth, too. Funny story...I was huffing and puffing and doing Lamaze, but apparently didn't scream out loud. I was screaming on the inside, big time! Afterward, my husband said, "You must not have been in pain, you seemed fine the whole time". I almost threw him across the room. :lol:

[CFTraveler]

Dais, how the heck did you do this?

When I went to get my seconed tattoo I forced my body not to numb the pain for me so I could feel it and boy oh boy it was great from start to end.

I've had cosmetic eyeliner tattoed on my eyes twice, and I thought I was gonna die! :shock: I tried self hypnosis, but that lasted about 10 seconds. I'm such a baby when it comes to pain. Even the woman who was doing the tattoing called me a baby. :lol: How do you do it? I could really use some tips. : Twice! I had it done 2 years ago and now it's gone (@#$%^&) and I'm contemplating doing it again, except it hurt so much I keep thinking.... That was excruciatingly painful. I can't take pain pills (allergic to morphine) but if I do I might find something else to take. I'm blind as a bat and have the sort of face that 'dissappears' without eyeliner. But I'll quit whining already.


Freawaru, I'm sorry that I offended. I didn't mean to, I was trying to be funny, but it obviously didn't come out right. You're right about endorphins. If only they would last. *Sigh* I was a big baby during childbirth, too. Funny story...I was huffing and puffing and doing Lamaze, but apparently didn't scream out loud. I was screaming on the inside, big time! Afterward, my husband said, "You must not have been in pain, you seemed fine the whole time". I almost threw him across the room. :lol :lol:

[Dais]

Ok painter heres a good one. Before the pain starts give away all the thought of it hurting a good old push away. If your thiinking its gonna suck its gonna suck go in positive and fear free. I know that will help.

You can also try selective attention. Focus on something close to you and trance make sure not to let your mind wander just stick to the trance.

Also this is gonna sound pervey but its science and I know it works. Think sexy if you can muster any kind of a sexual response from the pain it will transmite to your brain diffrently and it will get ya off if you do it right.

well if those dont work i can only think of conditioning your body.
I've done all these things they all worked for me. But like I said in other posts fear and will play a big role here so ya gotta stay positive.

Pain dont hurt. hurtin hurts and hurtin is in ya head

[sash]

All you do to avoid pain is become aware of it, as such it becomes an experience without an attachement of the attribute 'pain' and remains just a feeling.
Try to feel what it feels like without becoming attached to it. Pain can only thrive where there is attachment.

I never thought I'd be asking advice from a sadist. (It's a joke, don't get your panties in a wad!) :D

So, Dais, your first idea is a good one. Problem is, it sounds like self-hypnosis, which I've already tried. It works for me if I have pain that is either 1) slowly building or 2) dull but intense. When something that feels like razor blades slitting your eyelids open (sharp pain) happens, the self-hypnosis goes right out the window for me. Seriously, she used a razor blade to open the skin for the pigment. :shock: I shouldn't be admitting this, since I'm a hypnotherapist. LOL! Well, pain management hypnotherapy works for my clients. But, this is similar to the old adage "Physician, heal thyself". Or, in my case, it would be "Hypnotherapist, control thy pain". :oops:

Your second idea, "selective attention" sounds very Lamazey. And, we know how I did with that one. Screaming on the inside, but not on the outside is not my idea of pain control. :shock: I think I used a Teddy Bear for my focal point. (Threw that away when I got home!)

Dais said:

Also this is gonna sound pervey but its science and I know it works. Think sexy if you can muster any kind of a sexual response from the pain it will transmite to your brain diffrently and it will get ya off if you do it right.
Now, this sounds interesting. I'll have to try this one. *Having visions of the Medical Intern TV show (the one with Dr. McDreamy) where a woman had a medical condition where she couldn't stop having orgasms*

What do you mean by "conditioning your body"? If it means practicing slicing my eyelids with razorblades, notgonnadoit! I'm hoping you mean something else. So, really, I have a medical condition that makes me oober sensitive to pain, so I'm open to ideas. I was able to decrease my pain with hypnosis by about 80%, but it would be nice to be done with it completely. So, don't hold back. But, don't get graphic, or I'll have to edit you. :lol:

Sash,
I get the whole Zen non-attachment thing, but my problem is I'm WAY too aware of pain. It's a great philosophy, but putting it in to practice takes years, and I don't have that many left. :D

[Freawaru]

Freawaru, I'm sorry that I offended.


Forgiven and forgotten ;-)



You're right about endorphins. If only they would last. *Sigh* I was a big baby during childbirth, too.


Aren't we all? The cesarian itself wasn't painfull - but afterwards! My whole lower torso was on flame whenever I moved for three days. They wanted me to stand up but I stubbornly refused. No, that was no fun, either. :-(



Funny story...I was huffing and puffing and doing Lamaze, but apparently didn't scream out loud. I was screaming on the inside, big time! Afterward, my husband said, "You must not have been in pain, you seemed fine the whole time". I almost threw him across the room. :lol:

LOL.

I have trouble with pain, too. Especially when I am ill. But I admit that I fear injections even more (this feeling of numbness!) so if it is not too much I rather stand the pain at the dentist than using the injection.

I am not expert in biology but if I recall some articles in scientific american (or rather it's german version) correctly there are different kinds of pain. Sounds plausible, after all one uses different stuff against different pains, right?

Patty, you are the expert, isn't it possible to completely cut of pain during hypnosis? I read something about some surgeons operation without narcosis by it.

It seems to me there is either the complete cut of from pain (like in deep sleep or in that body asleep/mind awake state RB calles full trance, or to "reprogramm" the pain as pleasure. After all it is just inside the mind.

[sash]

Sash,
I get the whole Zen non-attachment thing, but my problem is I'm WAY too aware of pain. It's a great philosophy, but putting it in to practice takes years, and I don't have that many left. :D

You can access the power of awareness right now. Here.
But as soon as you lose it you feel pain again.
Just being in pain without truly understanding the pain or why it is there causes much confusion about the difference between suffering and freedom.

Freawaru said:

isn't it possible to completely cut of pain during hypnosis? I read something about some surgeons operation without narcosis by it.
Yes, that is possible and has been done. But, like anything else in life, some people are more talented at deep levels of hypnosis. Everyone can be hypnotized if they are open to it. Although, some have problems with being "controlled' and don't make good hypno subjects. Hypnotherapists don't control their clients, but some people have trouble letting go and trusting. While I do pain control hypnotherapy, I would never attempt to hypnotize anyone for anesthesia-free surgery. They would have to be VERY motivated and able to go into very deep trance states. It seems to me a lawsuit just waiting to happen. I think most of it has been done in very controlled situations, for research, and in extreme cases where anesthesia was life-threatening. While pain interpretation does occur in the brain, most of us have a difficult time overcoming the biology. Pain exists to protect us. There are people who have a condition where their pain perception is cut off due to some biological defect. They almost always have a shortened life-span because they aren't aware of how seriously they have been injured. So, some pain is good. Yuk, I can't believe I said that. :shock: I'm such a baby!

[Dais]

What I ment about conditioning wasent just mimic the act.
You gotta build your threshold. Try slaping yourself alot till your red all over and practice the other things while doing this.
And if you get good at it move up to belts.
Its like a martial artist that starts by punching one piece of wood and builds up to the brick.

I never had a problem with pain its like what i said and sash said you can just feel it as a feeling not as pain.

oh no offense on the pun painter it made me chuckle. I can laugh at my self

[Freawaru]

Thanks, Patty, that explained some things for me :-)

[Freawaru]

So if any one wants me to just start another thread about Inner demons and vampire kinda thinking I would love to start a thread about this stuff and possiably get more people involved by giveing a new main topic title. or something like that.


I would like a thread about inner demons, etc, I mean those that are truely aspects of our own human personality rather than some external negs :-)

Oh, and btw, you aren't by chance a scorpio, are you? Just asking cause of this thread ;-)

http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=3099

Hehe, don't know about Dais, but I am! Not that in to astrology, but I don't fit the typical Scorpio mold. I think I have something rising that mutates me. :lol: You can tell I really know the lingo. :shock: Astral sex, vampires, Medusa??!!?? Yeh, that describes me perfectly. LOL!

[Dais]

Im not a scorpio Im a libra but I also dont know anything about astrology.
I do believe heavly in balance of all things. So that fits me well.

What I ment about demons and vamps Im talkin about states of mind. Not external negs or outer beings.

I also wanted to throw a another dream qestion out there real quick.
I keep haveing dreams of zombies the place time and poeple always change. Its very lucid I always run into like 1-5 humans but mostly just zombies all over. I always end up fighting with abunch of them on and off some times thier just walkin around and dont really notice me.
nine out of ten I recognize nothing in the dream/ person place or thing.

The surroundings are very diffrent from normal construction. They all seem like wrecked or being built but when I stop and try to make sense out of the wreckage or construction work it seem like everything is already were it should be. (I think that Im putting a overlaping image over the normal background of this place because it isnt normal of the physical plane.) Atlest once or twice everytime I have one of these zombie dreams I notice an astral kinda construct Like a stairway to incredible colored lights or a elevator that gose into a portal kinda thing. Lastnight it was a side walk that razed off the ground and went off in to a like purple sun in the distance. these dreams happen 1-5 times a month and I never think about zombies other then wacthing a zombie movie and Im no big fan thier. This has been happening for as long as I can recall.
Try that one on guys.

[violetsky]

Hmmm,

Dais when did this start? I mean when did your desire to fight start? Did you have an experience where someone took horrible advantage of you but you were too young to fight back? This can instill in us the desire to develop the fighting skills we lacked at that moment in time. Core hurts are one possible way these things can get started and will not end till the core hurt is faced. Oddly that can seem more scary than fighting a thousand men. Oddly part of us gets trapped in that moment until we can let go. Am not saying this is how it is...only one possibility that may be (or may not be) important to consider. Sometimes the pains we have suffered we will transform into some sort of advantage to us and make it work for us, it is a coping skill.

Have you read any of Carl Jung's work? He was big into dream psychology. The vampires and zoombies in your dreams are likely part of what Carl Jung calls the Shadow. These represent darker aspects of self that we are not willing to deal with and since we refuse to deal with them consciously they surface so the subconscious mind can try to deal with them as best it can. A destroyed foundation can represent the desire to start over and rebuild something more solid and real and beautiful. It all starts with the foundation.

It was unlikely it was an astral sex occurance. Astral sex is very different from what you described. Robert has written articles on this. More likely it was a lucid dream but your conscious mind could not duplicate what the subconscious mind can condure. When your conscious mind tried even harder you ended up waking yourself up to a fully conscious state.

Best Wishes,
Violetsky

[Dais]

well thats some good theorys But I can assure that it has nothing to do with past experiences. I have faced and over come my past and all thoughs that have abused me.
The vampire guy I saw I think might Have been ether a side of my self or just some guy that is projecting at me or something hes his own problem so far and always looks like the same person. The zombies I know dont have to do with me cause I dont get scared of them and I dont have to fight with them all the time. And thier attention is rarely on me alone. The Zombies seem to be thier own self aware things but they seem real lost. Or stuck in a trend Kinda.
As far as me likeing to fight I cant lie I just love the rush of battle and challenge I love the art of battle the stratgy the will the training all of it I really enjoy it. But I dont start fights with people I dont go into dreams thinking or hoping to fight.

[violetsky]

Dear Dais,

Lucid dreaming is very, very different than the astral. They are separate and distictly different. I get the impression you think they are melded somehow. This is not the case I assure you. Occassionally as most people have experienced when a noise occurs (i.e. a door slams down the hall) in real life our dream mind will try to incorporate this into dream state. This helps us not to wake up at every little noise. Similarly when we astral project we can have experiences in the astral that impact our dream state mind. These can result in the sensations of flying in dream state but how the dream incorporates this might have nothing to do with what actually occurred in real life or in the astral. Now occassionally you can project out of dream state but usually the shift is very noticeable energetically and there is a sudden very distinct shift from the dream into the astral. I have experienced these and they often involve a portal or tube or rushing sensation or sudden phase into a completely different setting.

As for dream psychology it is worth learning about if you lucid dream every night. There are decades of accumulated and tested knowledge here. Most likely all the characters in your dreams are aspects of yourself you have not yet faced. Not being scared of the zoombies does not mean this is not an aspect of yourself you have not faced. Fear is not the only factor. These could be aspects of yourself you have deadened to avoid emotional hurt. Carl Jung was an avid lucid dreamer and no one went deeper into it than he that I know of. You might find this link to be a good read. http://mythsdreamssymbols.com/shadow.html

And a whisper in your ear here....To say you have faced all your past or your fears is unlikely. Fewer than a handful on this earth can truly say they have faced and now understand most within themselves and their past that has caused disequilibrium within. Even still they would not likely claim this cause they know how deep it goes. A few more have made a significant dent in their understanding of self. If they actually came close to completing the process they would be the equivalent of a Jesus or Buddha or beyond and have the patience of Job. Not even the Dalhi Lama claims this and he is a very, very wise man. He knows how deep the rabbit hole goes. The deeper one goes the more one seems to uncover. It is like the high school student that walks into university and suddenly discovers how little they know and how far they have to go. The learning is never ending. Even an initiate has only taken the beginning step. A very humbling thought for all.

If anything tweaks or upsets us in anyway....it is a sign we have not dealt with something within. Another great teacher is that what we dislike in others is likely what we fear or dislike most within ourselves to one extent or another. If we pay attention to this we can accomplish a tremendous amount of inner work all on our own. If we ignore what causes us to react we will always be open to manipulation or being toyed with - especially in mental, emotional or physical combat. Rage is definitely a force to be reconned with but it tends to throw us into tiger mode. A dragon can turn a tigers fury back on to the tiger. A dragon stays calm and precise. Robert told me a story of watching a Qi Quong master of seventy throw young men (tigers at heart) clear across the mat with only a finger tip. The kindly old master would of course help them onto their feet and make sure they were alright for Qi Quong is also a healing art - off the mats because energy is energy whether used for force or healing. Robert saw this in Italy when he was doing a workshop for students of Qi Quong. There are masters and then there are Masters of an art. A good warrior always needs a clear mind that allows him or her to act with perfect clarity not react.

Lucid dreaming is a powerful way to become aware of all our programs, buttons and undelt with issues so we can move out of reaction into action in life. It has served me well and is still serving me.

Best Wishes to you,
Violetsky

[Dais]

I didnt mean that i was all knowing of myself. Im not tring to be arrogent I meant that I know my dreams arent influenced by my past or my own fears. And I can tell the diffrence from being in a dream and in a place. I understand the big diffrences of awarness and sensations that occur during the travel between the two.
But I also know you can easily and spontaneusly project. All my projections thus far have been.
As far as dealing with masters of the arts gose I know dame well to respect the power of such people Im a teacher my self and I have fought with so called masters of the arts some I have beaten some I havent.

[violetsky]

Dear Dais,

I spontaneously project and phase. Everyone tries to put division lines on things but really it is all about degrees of consciousness shift. For me phasing is similar to orbing. You see the place but only part of your consciousness goes there instantaneously. Usually there are no rushing sensations with phasing. Likely because you are carrying less consciousness to a different location. Your consciousness is just suddenly in a new place. Orbing is similar. You send out an orb or ball of consciousness to view a place. I am a much better orber than an astral projector when it comes to conscious projection at will. Spontaneous full astral projection is about the only way I have full astral projections. But what you have been describing in your posts relating to your dreams sounds like neither phasing, spontaneous orbing or projection. As long as you understand that your lucid dreams which you have described thus far are lucid dreams then this is good.

I can say with almost complete certainty that your dreams are hugely influenced by your past. Understand that dream state is the way your subconscious mind speaks to you. The subconscious mind prefers to communicate through symbology than words. Symbology is universal and not restrictive to the greater mind the way language is. The subconscious mind is the holder of all your past learning, experiences, judgements, opinions, beliefs, angers, frustration, feelings of victory, failure, advancement and transgression. All the events that you believe make you who you are. It is the great recorder. Occassionally dreams are about your future if they are of the prophetic dream type. This is rare though and these dreams are of a completely different energy and usually involve clearer symbology. Prophetic dreams occur with a higher aspect of us works through the subconscious mind to communicate with us.

Another phenomena you can experience as a lucid dreamer are peel aways. This can seem like a phase shift but is not. So again be careful not to confuse the two. So what is "a peel away"? Well this is my term for when I am consciously aware in a dream and it is not making sense to me. Sometimes the symbology can be so abstract or confusing or ancient or archetypal that I am not getting a clear picture. When this happens I will talk directly to my subconscious mind and ask, "What are you trying to tell me? Explain this so I can better understand." Then what will happen is the situation will suddenly change and a person will arrive and have a direct discussion with me or the situation will be come much clearer. I learned this technique from studying Carl Jung's work as a teenager. I used to have a dream where wild cats were chasing me. After reading Carl's work I stopped in my dream and turned around and asked the cats why they were chasing me. The most amazing thing occurred. Now, not aways does the situation change immediately but it transforms gradually. In this case the cats stop chasing me and said out right, "We are your fears." As the conversation went on the cats slowly transformed into aspects and people that carried clearer symbology for me. Try this technique in your dreams if you feel there is lack of clarity. It works quite well for me and the peel aways can be pretty cool. Literally the whole environment and scenery can peel away and change. Hopefully this technique will work for you on the first shot and turn into a valuable tool. Perhaps you are already doing this?

Best Wishes to you,
Violetsky

[Dais]

I have done things like that. its a pretty cool trick I have to agree. But I have a lot of trouble accepting my positions in dreams. I really just go along with stuff by nature. Its real hard for me to just stop and go hey whats that in dreams because of how accepting Im so to say.

Weather someting is normal or not I always find my self just going along with what ever. Alot of the time I will realize Im dreaming something happens and I just go back to going along.
That and most of my dreams really dont seem to have some kind of meaning. I have tried long and hard to make sense and to find meaning but its just lacking.
THat and the dreams I have when my sub mind is haveing fun its obvious that thats whats going on because the dream will be just plane silly like pink elephant kinda silly. The endless amount of absolutely foolish crap that happens in those cases are just well stupid to say.
Any tips on just helping my self stop and notice what up.

[CFTraveler]

Any tips on just helping my self stop and notice what up.
To increase dream lucidity:
1-Increase dream memory- using keywords and affirmations. Even if you think your recall is already good. Keep a dream journal.
2-Use cues: question the reality of what's going on in waking life, make a habit of it, so when you're in a dream it can kick in.
some ways of doing this: have something on, all the time, like a necklace or a watch, keep checking to see if it's there. I check my hands to see if they're human looking. If not, why, am I dreaming? Make this a habit.

Just doing these things will increase the chance of gaining lucidity in your dream, and once you do realize you're dreaming, before trying to change things, try communicating with your dream forms- ask them what they're there for. And be ready for a surprise.

[violetsky]

Dear Dias,

Here is a great website http://www.lucidity.com

Personally though I found the one thing that gives me the most lucidity is the clock exercise just before going to bed. This is where you empty your mind of all thought for as long as you possibly can. You look at the tip of the second hand of the clock and make sure it does not go out of focus. The minute it starts going out of focus your mind is likely about to start its silly chatter (that likely results in our silly dreams). Some of our silly chatter can actually be quite damaging to us though. As you become fully aware of your mind chatter suddenly realize how much we reinforce our self image good and bad over and over each day. Emptying the mind for long periods (10 minutes or more) puts me in a deep mind state that gives me tremendous dream lucidity. Hopefully it works for you. It is challenging in the extreme though. Most people cannot go 20 seconds without thought intrusion. It takes time and effort and patience but it is definitely worth it. It took me one year of training three times a day before I got to 10 minutes.

Very Best Wishes to you,
Violetsky

[Dais]

Thanks Cf I just started doing reality checks a few days ago but Ill put more effort in to it.
Im startin ta like you Cf you always have something intelligent to say. I admire a clean and open head.
Oh yeah I was thinking about violence again(who saw that coming haha)
But anyway I was having another dream were I ended up stalking Killers again but thats not what bothered me.
Before the killers showed up it was just a wondering dream no real point but I walked up to a place near a school that I attended.
As I walked up to it I reality checked my self and I knew I was dreaming for like just a sec. But i looked up at something and berzerked I dont know why or what it was that set me off. I just fliped out in my dream I started attacking everything around me at speeds I couldent even fathum. It was blinding Like I was moving so fast that I was seeing mutiple stuff at once or like I was a legion unto myself it was nuts and it only lasted like a minute but. I never experienced this before.
I then snaped back and everyone around me was gone. Then I just went back to my normal dream habbits.
I need a clue here.