Karla Turner - abductee and ufologist

[PauliEffect]

This 2 hour video clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKbOpTMmnNg), with poor light and mostly simple speech, is one
of the youtubes on Ufologist Karla Turner, who experienced several
abductions.

She sure has some strange stories to tell, and she seem very grave about them.

She says that she doesn't know if the abductors are aliens, from another
planet of from another dimension. Her point of view is almost the opposite
compared to Steven Greer. K Turner thinks that the alien greys are made
from human biological material, and controlled by more intelligent aliens.

She mentions that many abductees have both positive and negative experiences,
but most abductees experience illnesses or deterioration in health.

She shares Greer's opinion that authorities hide the truth, but K Turner's opinion
is that the authorities don't know much about the aliens. She also speculates
in the possibility that humans somehow are used as (mental?) "cattle" for the
aliens, but I don't think she reached any solid conclusion on that point either.

She suddenly died in cancer 1996, 48 years old. There exists a "homepage" (http://www.jeffpolachek.com/www-karlaturner-org)
which gives me too little sane info.

Does anyone know if K Turner reached any conclusions about these abductions
or if anyone else followed up on her work and reached a conclusion?

[CFTraveler]

She mentions that many abductees have both positive and negative experiences,
but most abductees experience illnesses or deterioration in health. Interesting. I've read that many experiencers have what can be described as allergic reactions and weird rashes after having an experience, yours truly included.
I don't know what the ratio for cancer to abduction is as compared by non-experiencer to cancer (I know my grammar was horrible there, I'm sleepy) but it would be interesting to know if someone has made a comparison.

[PauliEffect]

CFTraveler, would you say alien abductions are real or do
you more go by the Buhlman approach, that "abductions"
are in fact OBEs mistaken for something else?

[CFTraveler]

CFTraveler, would you say alien abductions are real or do
you more go by the Buhlman approach, that "abductions"
are in fact OBEs mistaken for something else? I honestly don't know what they are. My experiences seem to be nonphysical, is all I can say.

ps. Except for the nuts and bolts UFO my husband (then boyfriend) and I saw in the early days of our dating. But that was a sighting, not a 'close up' event.

[PauliEffect]

One side of K Turner's reports are that they are very physical in nature.

Abductees have had needles inserted in their brains or genitals. They
have had implants inserted, which later have been removed and proved
to consist of very simple material like metals or silicone. Some implants
have dissolved when exposed to air or light. The abductees have had
wounds and scars left on their bodies, etc.

It surely makes me puzzled. And I wonder what it is, these abductions.

Specially if anyone has any theory why they are done?

[DarkChylde]

some of us here at AD have even seen objects hovering atop of their houses , btw that makes it a "sighting" it in my book. ( ;) ).

[LPCF]

PauliEffect, it is up to you whether you choose to believe that ETs need or want to do experiments on humans or control them. But from a logical point of view, if they are developed enough (technologically and spiritually) to travel through galaxies, even dimensions, I very much doubt whether they need to put primitive probes into people's brains. Grier frequently mentions ETs' strong telepathic capabilities - so they could find out all they wanted just by reading our minds (even from afar).

Who is more likely to want to experiment on humans? Look closer to home....

[sono2]

I've followed Karla Turner's work over the years. . .& honestly don't know what I believe to be the cause. I now tend to think that there is an actual astral "technology", which can influence the "physical". Has anyone else read the posts by Fore on the Outpost Forum, btw?

[PauliEffect]

sono2, do you know what happened to Ted Rice, the man K Turner talks about?

Is there any organization who works in the footsteps of Turner or is her work
sort of abandoned?

[sono2]

Sorry, I don't know what happened to Ted Rice. . .or of anyone continuing K Turner's work, but I'll check around & follow it up.

[sono2]

Just to follow up - I found these references on another forum - seems he has intentionally dropped from the scene:
http://www.alien-ufos.com/politics-current-events-serious-discussion/27898-whatever-happened-ted-rice-3.html

[PauliEffect]

OOOOppssseee! Ted Rice is a probable hybrid.

That was interesting. Brings us to the question then how many of us are
hybrids and for what purpose? Did Barbara Bartholic come any closer
to the answer why there are abductions?

I wonder what the definition of a hybrid is? On a DNA level or on a nonphysical
level?

[sono2]

I wonder, too. . .fwiw - sometimes I catch myself thinking of other people as "humans", almost as if I were not human myself(!) When my daughter was small, she used to draw bizarre stick figures & when asked what they were supposed to be, she would reply, "Humans! Man humans & girl humans!" - almost as if she, too, did not consider herelf quite human. Other kids in her playgroup would call their dawings "people", or "men & girls".

Sometimes I feel drawn to faces of unknown people in a crowd; I involuntarily send them a greeting, or ask telepathically (!) where they are from. Recently, I saw a strange young man with white hair, (like the way I used to bleach mine a few years back) leaning over a balcony on his own. I sent him a message asking if he was an alien; instantly I heard (internally) "Yes, but YOU'RE not!" I found it very amusing, for some reason, & giggled about it all day.

[Beekeeper]

PauliEffect, it is up to you whether you choose to believe that ETs need or want to do experiments on humans or control them. But from a logical point of view, if they are developed enough (technologically and spiritually) to travel through galaxies, even dimensions, I very much doubt whether they need to put primitive probes into people's brains. Grier frequently mentions ETs' strong telepathic capabilities - so they could find out all they wanted just by reading our minds (even from afar).

Who is more likely to want to experiment on humans? Look closer to home...

I see this argument often but it's premised on something that hasn't been proven: that one needs to be spiritually developed to travel in space or across dimensions. I suspect this belief comes from an idea something like one of these:
a. Oh they have more developed technology. They must be so much older than us. Evolution is always a forward process. Everything, including the spirit evolves. They must be spiritually more developed than us.
b. Oh, their technologies developed quicker than ours, therefore, they must not have had all those wars we had that diverted knowledge and exploration down less desirable paths and cost the loss of billions of lives that may have contributed to the development of the species.
And, I'm sure the list could continue.

The point is, there could be numerous scenarios explaining why an extra-terrestrial or inter-dimensional race might be ahead of us in technology that have nothing to do with superior spirituality:
- Their planet of origin posed less survival challenges and they got on with it
- The course of their knowledge development was less convoluted (maybe they never developed religion)
- They stumbled across or stole another culture's technology
- They're more co-operative in a hive-like way but only with members of their own species
- They had pretty much screwed their own planet with their technological development and had no choice but to go looking

[Beekeeper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaPon43-zO0

L.A Marzuli obviously doesn't believe in alien benevolence. Admittedly he's pushing a fairly fundamentalist Christian barrow but that doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't got something right.

[PauliEffect]

L.A Marzuli obviously doesn't believe in alien benevolence. Admittedly he's
pushing a fairly fundamentalist Christian barrow but that doesn't necessarily
mean he hasn't got something right.

Doesn't mean he has anything to say...

And that's the problem with too many of these Coast 2 Coast broadcasts.
The UFO-guy has nothing to say, no content, nothing specifc, just that
there "is a shift", there are "strange vibrations", there is "an agenda",
something is "going to happen", but nothing, not a single specific piece
of information is revealed.

If you have more of these 2 hours radio interviews, please, could you
state in a little more exact way what piece is of interest, because
it's really difficult to listen through everything to find nothing.

I hope this is ok to you.

[CFTraveler]

If you have more of these 2 hours radio interviews, please, could you
state in a little more exact way what piece is of interest, Pauli, if you don't like the Coast to Coast show, don't listen to it. Interest is a subjective thing, there is no need for this.
I understand someone complaining when someone posts a link to something that is not clear, because they don't want to watch it to find out what it's all about (I have done this in the past, but now I try to give an idea or a title when I do this)- but to ask someone to point out why it's interesting is going too far.

[Beekeeper]

If you have more of these 2 hours radio interviews, please, could you
state in a little more exact way what piece is of interest, because
it's really difficult to listen through everything to find nothing.

That's okay, Pauli, essentially, he's another one suggesting they fit the demon description as espoused in Judeo-Christian eschatology. (And I'll add Islamic - what they'd call jinn, perhaps). That's his argument. You only need to hear a small part of the interview to get the gist. It's not his unique argument but, given the information available and assuming it isn't all fabricated, it is as valid as the love-and-peace-man-cool-in-a-kaftan alien argument. This is especially so if you take into account the physical and psychological damage allegedly inflicted on abductees, as covered by Karla Turner and others.

IIRC he also links animal mutilations to the idea of unclean sacrifice, a satanist practice. Greys aren't necessarily the perpetrators of animal mutilations - actually Marzuli, like others, says they aren't limited to animals but include humans- but they're likely candidates because of the nature of the technologies involved. There are abductees that claim to have witnessed genetic experiments and not just the alien-human hybrids that they have apparently helped engender. Reports of underground alien bases also align them with traditional notions of the devil.

I'm aware of the "false flag" argument that may be used against Marzuli and his ilk but he raises his own Great Deception argument, suggesting that we're being led gradually to believe that aliens genetically engineered us and are, therefore, in some sense are our makers - our Gods. Now me, I'd reject that argument even if they did genetically engineer us since they didn't make this planet or our souls or life itself. On the whole, however, I reject this contention of the "ancient aliens" crowd because I think Sitchen, whom they invariably end up referencing, was a fraud and a Freemason.http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Zacharia+sitchen+fraud&oq=Zacharia+sitchen+fraud&gs_l=youtube.3...997.9899.0.10622.25.23.1.0.0.1.47 7.3682.1j0j12j1j1.15.0...0.0...1ac.1.Sfut_5YFHUk

I've mentioned in an earlier thread an Hawaiian elder claiming that greys are traditionally known to Hawaiians as "the deceivers." I occasionally watch videos like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9mzpFnSqp4 where greys give the usual "You're destroying your world" message and I'd like to believe they're good guys but, you know, it just isn't conclusive for me. All I know is if a ship arrives and they say, "Hop on, we'll save you from Nirubu" or whatever, I'll be taking my chances on earth.

Btw, I found a lot of what Marzuli said annoying and superstitious as I always do when evangelical Christians go on (no offence if the reader happens to be one). Coast-to-coast can be annoying too and I don't think I ended up listening to this all the way through, I posted it because it's representative of a view. The greys may indeed be nothing more than people from another planet with advanced technologies but that doesn't mean that they aren't the same creatures that inspired our demon stories and fairy stories (Read the Graham Hancock "Supernatural" thread if it still exists if you want to know more about the link). If they did, I'd suggest we not place too much hope and trust in their benevolence.

[CFTraveler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnOu6QvsEko
Thank you for this one, it was fabulous, even ignoring the Sitchin stuff. Wow!

[Sinera]

I do not believe most of the negative Sitchen / Ancient Alien stuff either. This said, for me it is however striking that many of his critics come from a purely Christian or religionist / apologist perspective (maybe even fundamentalist, literalist?), including Mr Heiser:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Heiser

Also, please take a close look at the description of this video by the video poster:


WHEN THE LAMB OF GOD COMES IN HIS GLORY AND POURS OUT HIS WRATH UPON THE EARTH, I DON'T THINK HE WILL BE USING A PLANET X/NIBIRU TO DO IT.

THE LORD ALONE WILL BE EXALTED IN THAT DAY !!!

AND BESIDES, THE DAY OF THE LORD HAPPENS AFTER THE TRIBULATION PERIOD, AND AFTER THE SIXTH SEAL OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION.

... sorry, but this is for me not a reliable source at all, neither the video uploader nor the 'expert'.

So it's actually one mythology (Ancient Reptilian Aliens) fighting a game against another mythology (Christianity). Truth, as so often, loses again and still remains the greatest mystery, imho.

Also it should be said that although Freemasonry has most certainly nowadays become corrupted and has not a lot to do anymore with the ancient wisdom they once were founded on to preserve (a lot got lost or was distorted), it does not say that every Freemason of today must be a devil worshipper, satanist, NWO or alien conspiracist or whatever.

[Beekeeper]

You can find criticisms by Jason Colavito http://jcolavito.tripod.com/lostcivilizations/id14.html or Rob Havernik http://www.skepdic.com/essays/sitchin.htm if you don't like Heiser. I don't know if they're any less Christian in outlook. In Heiser's defense, he did write an open letter to Sitchen who declined a response http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/letter/letter.htm

[CFTraveler]

This said, for me it is however striking that many of his critics come from a purely Christian or religionist / apologist perspective (maybe even fundamentalist, literalist?), including Mr Heiser:
The thing is, that, as someone who actually studied anthropology in college, I can tell you that usually the type of people that study this subject (ancient sumerian languages and biblical archaeology, for example) are usually clergy, or religious people that want to study the science or research behind the things that they have always held sacred. Some move away from a belief background and some others don't- but, for example, you can set aside Dr. Heiser's theist beliefs and look at the evidence he showed- the actual grammar of the language, the specific tablets in which the data appears, and his credentials- his specific area of study- and you can see he knows what he's talking about, while Sitchin, for example, makes up stuff and quotes tablets that don't exist to fit a theory.
Heiser may not like what he finds here and there (and if you listened to the whole thing all the way to the end, you'll see this) but he doesn't lie or hide evidence, he simply says why he doesn't like it.

[Beekeeper]

http://www.2012hoax.org/nibiru#toc0