Am I unable to feel love?

[LenaNight]

So I've recently become spiritual and have been meditating regularly and experimenting with binaural audio. I found im learning alot of things about myself, but this bothers me. I've tried mediating into a trance and it barely works no matter what methods I try. I've tried binaural audio to induce pleasure and euphoria and while other effects work great on me, I cant induce those feelings.

Since discovering this I've been mediating on my life and Im forced to question if I can feel love and joy to begin with. Through meditation I've recalled the happiness I believe I've felt in my life were leached or shared with another so Im unsure it was actually my own feelings or not. I've also been able to recall in relationships I've had alot of difficulty feeling my partner loves me even though my logical mind tells me they act like they do and that it seems geinue, but most glaring is I dont know if I've ever loved anyone or anything.

Im really worried here, from what I understand meditation is never wrong, if I've discovered these things during meditation and binaural meditation, I might have a real problem.

[SoulSail]

I'll address the "feeling" and love question later in this post, but first, what type of meditation are you doing? How often, how long, etc. Is a trance state your goal in meditating?

Also don't believe the story that says all things are equal, including meditation. The type of meditation that leads to liberation can take months and even years of practice to cultivate the mere basics. It's not tough to learn, but it's not easy either. It is a skill. I can be learned, but it requires a dedicated approach. Believe it or not, there is a distinct, prescriptive application if you want to reap something back.

As for binaural stuff...meh. I have a few very expensive binaural tracks that induce anxiety, headaches, and agitation. Money not so well spent. I have others, cheapo stuff that helps, but I do not listen to anything while meditation because sight, sound, etc. is rarely conducive to settling the mind.

Think of it like this...

Our natural minds are like pools of dirty water. Thought kicks up dirt, and the only way we can get the water to settle is make sure it is totally undisturbed. If one is still, silent, and focused on their breath, that dirt DOES settle and we begin to see clearly. We see what reality is. We see how our mind interprets, labels, and skews what really is. So if you're hooked up to binaural beats that don't sit well with your brain, you're just kicking up dirt.

I recommend you separate your meditation time from trance work. They have plenty of overlap, but are different creatures entirely. Make sense?

As for feeling things...

It sounds like you're experience anhedonia. Please let me know if that's the case in general. If so, there are plenty of possible things going on that we can explore later, but I want to see if that label fits.


Soul

[CFTraveler]

I'm going to just ask a couple of more questions to those Soul asked, because I'm not sure I really understand what you are saying.
Do you think meditation can induce euphoria or joy? I see that you are judging the emotion you have felt in the past, but emotions are reactions, I would suggest to start with no expectations of anything in particular when you practice meditation.
Other than that, I'll defer to Soul, because he knows what he's talking about.

[LenaNight]

Thanks for the replies. Firstly, I'd like to say generally I do separate binaural from normal meditation. I usually do 'normal' meditation in the mornings as there is less on my mind and sometimes I can manage to lucid dream/AP/OOB afterward (though rarely sadly). As for what I do, generally I sit up and close my eyes and do breathing exercises, and then do some progressive relaxation techniques. This is where the very few times I've tranced happened. Normally though I skip to visualizing myself on the island I built in my mind to help me relax, and usually at this time external stimuli is to a bear minimum, Im just in my mind on my island where I start meditating on things and questions and call out to my higher self or spirit guide (they've to date never appeared) but its then I start getting flashes of memory or thought that pertain to what I am meditating on, and thats where I recall the information mentioned above. I just go with what my mind pops in my mind at that point, as that is how I was understanding meditation works when you want to learn things.

The binaural stuff, I usually save for night time before bed, and sometimes during the day if I get alittle time to myself and sometimes I'll meditate with that usually chakra beats or just general meditation beats. At night is usually when I try euphoria or pleasure inducing beats to help me relax to sleep.

As for what I think meditation can do, I had thought it could induce peace, calm, and euphoria. Though mostly the Euphoria I try to induce through binaural audio, and as I said above the audio works well with everything but audio. I've been able to induce pain, fear, relaxation and other effects but not euphoria or pleasure which is what made me meditate on why that is so. I will try not to have expectations during meditation though, maybe thats why its so rare for me to trance.

As to the question on anhedonia, I believe I may have some of the symptoms from it. I've normally written off lack of experiencing much joy and happiness from life experiences to my being so cynical and clinical in my approach to life but I can say most of the time my mood is neutral, its hard for me to get excited either positively or negatively which again I thought ment I just had a cool head. Also I derive no pleasure at all from overcoming challenges, the only emotions I can say I feel strongly are pain and sadness when those hit. Sexually, I can feel physical pleasure however but never intensely, which I've always blamed on my partners heh.

However its never been diagnosed by any doctor, indeed I've never mentioned this to my doctor. I dont know if it matters but I do have severe arthritis which I got early on in my life, so I am on many medications for it, mostly prescription pain killer and anti inflammatory.

[CFTraveler]

Im just in my mind on my island where I start meditating on things and questions and call out to my higher self or spirit guide (they've to date never appeared) but its then I start getting flashes of memory or thought that pertain to what I am meditating on, and thats where I recall the information mentioned above. Guides don't always manifest objectively- they are energies that may be seen or felt as intuition or feelings- so what I would say to you is that your guides are giving you what you need and can handle- in this case memories or feelings or specific thoughts for you to work on.
Not everyone can handle another being appearing in front of them, even in trance- but that's another theme.

I have been meditating since I was in my late teens, and I'm over fifty (wow!) and I can say that I didn't see a guide objectively until two or three years ago- and I may have had two or three 'Peak' experiences in a lifetime of meditation. They're great when they happen but they're not always what's necessary on the path..... that's all I can say about it.

I don't think there is anything 'wrong' about you, the thing is that when you read about others' expeiriences, they tend to focus on the amazing or interesting ones that happen, and not the other 99% that are just 'ho-hum'. After all, who would buy a book about regular everyday experiences?
Just my two cents.

[SoulSail]

Hi LenaNight,

Following up from my last post and picking up from where CFTraveler left off, I have a few thoughts...

1. On meditation: I can only recommend once again that you take up a meditation practice that's proven. Don't wing it. Like several others here, I practice Vipassana daily. This is what the Buddha taught. You may want to see my earlier post to you on a couple books that can help get you started, or simply look up the free book by Daniel Ingram. Dreamin90 posted a link to it earlier (I'll dig up in a few). It's solid, to the point, and very well written. And it's free. You can't beat that. Just know that meditation can lead to liberation but it's not something you can just stab around at. There are steps, stages, techniques, and many considerations in order to get any lasting benefit. So read up. In due time, the bliss part flirts with you. You'll have moments, but honestly, it's more work than Western minds generally want to invest in. But if you stick with it...

And

2. It sounds as though you do in fact have some anhedonia issues going on, which can make life very, very hard. The inability to experience pleasure is also all too often linked to our ability to focus and find lasting motivation. You may want to search a bit on how the dopaminergic system works, as well as the other pleasure chemicals in your brain. See here-->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia

You might want to see a doctor again about this. Go in with a full list of what you're experiencing. You *may* have a low level depression going, you may have a hormonal imbalance...there are many causes behind anhedonia, you just need to hunt. And of course, I'm no doctor so don't take my word on this matter as Gospel. Now, if you do see a doc and he/she wants to put you on meds, that's your call on whether to try something of that nature. You may want to read up on this in advance because there a plenty of happy pills that can really do a number on you if you're not minimally fluent in action and side-effects. I also suggest you read up on L-Methylfolate, something you can buy on Amazon.

Sometimes we must shore up with external things until we can get our internal stuff clear enough for the natural benefits to surface.

And yeah, I'm only telling you this because I've been there with the no-pleasure-at-all syndrome.

Holler with questions.


Soul

[SoulSail]

Here's the link dreaming90 posted to the free meditation book written by Daniel Ingram:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/MCTB?p_r_p_185834411_title=MCTB

Now that I've read about half of it, I think it makes a better follow-on text after one has spent some time trying to get a handle on basic Vipassana. In that light, Mindfulness in Plain English or Buddhist Meditation by Kamalashila may be better intro works.

Soul

[LenaNight]

Thanks for the link to the book, I'll definatly read that. I honestly prefer more structure so to me, following a established meditation technique should work better for me, so I'll certainly try out this Vipassana, when I "wing it" I usually always wonder if im doing it wrong.

As for the guides, I Feel ready to talk to them, but maybe my higher self knows something I dont? I'll be patient and defer if im ready or not to fate, its always been difficult for me to 'let go' like that but I dont think there is really anything I can do about it but work at it and hope one day it'll happen.

Thanks though SoulSail, I suspect you may be right about anhedonia issues, is there really a cure or a treatment that can make me feel 'normal'? Its amazing to me how I just went with it all this time and never realized. I just blamed others for my problems, especially the sexual ones, I've always blamed my partners on being unable to handle me. I feel bad now, as I recall it hurt some of them to hear me blame them for not being able to satisfy me.

I will say coincidentally, I had a appointment with my doctor today and I talked with her about these things, and what she told me was she was hesitant to prescribe meditation and diagnose anything like this, and asked me to try going for walks everyday, and playing with my cat more often until the next appointment to see if it improved things.

Admittedly, between your warning and her reluctance to give medication for this, I have to wonder is medication really bad for this? Also, is this something mediation and spirituality could naturally fix? I've been drawn to Buddhism as a religion and have seriously been contemplating becoming one and even going to the local buddhist temple they have here. I would certainly like if there was a non chemical way of healing this but I understand sometimes these problems are just too great only medicine can treat it.

[SoulSail]

Hi LenaNight,

Yes, there are many "non chemical" answers to your point on feeling flat. The Buddhist meditation I'm proposing is just one of them, but it takes time. After you solidify your experience you can expect more than a shift in feeling, sensation, and mood. The following paragraphs are from Mindfulness in Plain English, the final chapter:

"As you continue to observe these changes and you see how it all fits together, you become aware of the intimate connectedness of all mental, sensory, and affective phenomena. You watch one thought leading to another, you see destruction giving rise to emotional reactions and feelings giving rise to more thoughts. Actions, thoughts, feelings, desires—you see all of them intimately linked together in a delicate fabric of cause and effect. You watch pleasurable experiences arise and fall, and you see that they never last; you watch pain come uninvited and you watch yourself anxiously struggling to throw it off; you see yourself fail. It all happens over and over while you stand back quietly and just watch it all work.

Out of this living laboratory itself comes an inner and unassailable conclusion. You see that your life is marked by disappointment and frustration, and you clearly see the source. These reactions arise out of your own inability to get what you want, your fear of losing what you have already gained, and your habit of never being satisfied with what you have. These are no longer theoretical concepts—you have seen these things for yourself, and you know that they are real. You perceive your own fear, your own basic insecurity in the face of life and death. It is a profound tension that goes all the way down to the root of thought and makes all of life a struggle. You watch yourself anxiously groping about, fearfully grasping after solid, trustworthy ground. You see yourself endlessly grasping for something, anything, to hold onto in the midst of all these shifting sands, and you see that there is nothing to hold onto, nothing that doesn’t change. You see the pain of loss and grief, you watch yourself being forced to adjust to painful developments day after day in your own ordinary existence. You witness the tensions and conflicts inherent in the very process of everyday living, and you see how superficial most of your concerns really are. You watch the progress of pain, sickness, old age, and death. You learn to marvel that all these horrible things are not fearful at all. They are simply reality. Through this intensive study of the negative aspects of your existence, you become deeply acquainted with dukkha, the unsatisfactory nature of all existence.


You begin to perceive dukkha at all levels of our human life, from the obvious down to the most subtle. You see the way suffering inevitably follows in the wake of clinging, as soon as you grasp anything, pain inevitably follows. Once you become fully acquainted with the whole dynamic of desire, you become sensitized to it. You see where it rises, when it rises, and how it affects you. You watch it operate over and over, manifesting through every sense channel, taking control of the mind and making consciousness its slave. In the midst of every pleasant experience, you watch your own craving and clinging take place. In the midst of unpleasant experiences, you watch a very powerful resistance take hold. You do not block these phenomena, you just watch them; you see them as the very stuff of human thought. You search for that thing you call “me,” but what you find is a physical body and how you have identified your sense of yourself with that bag of skin and bones.


Your whole view of self changes at this point. You begin to look upon yourself as if you were a newspaper photograph. When viewed with the naked eyes, the photograph you see is a definite image. When viewed through a magnifying glass, it all breaks down into an intricate configuration of dots. Similarly, under the penetrating gaze of mindfulness, the feeling of a self, an “I” or “being” anything, loses its solidity and dissolves. There comes a point in insight meditation where the three characteristics of existence—impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, and selflessness—come rushing home with concept-searing force. You vividly experience the impermanence of life, the suffering nature of human existence, and the truth of no-self. You experience these things so graphically that you suddenly awake to the utter futility of craving, grasping, and resistance. In the clarity and purity of this profound moment, our consciousness is transformed. The entity of self evaporates. All that is left is an infinity of interrelated nonpersonal phenomena, which are conditioned and ever-changing. Craving is extinguished and a great burden is lifted. There remains only an effortless flow, without a trace of resistance or tension. There remains only peace, and blessed nibbana, the uncreated, is realized."

Gunaratana, Bhante (2011-09-06). Mindfulness in Plain English: 20th Anniversary Edition



So there you have it. The real state of being you're looking for is in fact the end result of solid meditation practices. This is something that takes you beyond the desire to feel better, because you see the futility of "better" in a much greater whole of experiences reality.

But it takes time to get here.

Yet I see little harm in working to obtain some relief from the condition you're experiencing now. The benefits of meditation will catch up sooner or later and the whole issue is overtaken by something far superior. So yes, there are safe, natural ways to help yourself, but I'm not going to go into those here because I'd like to keep this thread in context as it relates to the forum. If you'd like I can send you some resources on how to confront a lagging pleasure center without all the meds and side effects, just shoot me an email here and I'm more than happy to put together a list.

More, we often recommend a book here called The Multidimensional Human by Kurt Leland, and I am convinced it should be required reading for anyone seriously engaging the spiritual path. Among many other topics, you'll get a great overview of why there really isn't a clear delineation between physical and spiritual issues as we often suppose. It's a bit trickier than that.

Soul

[LenaNight]

Wow, that is a powerful passage, and one I certainly can relate to, the entire thing just speaks to me and I can see my life in it. Yes, I feel the restlessness described. I understand it will take time, so perhaps in the short term some relief would be very welcome. Preferably non chemical.

I'll also have to find a copy of that book, the way you describe the Multidimensional human, it sounds like the beginners handbook to spirituality.

Oh, I shot you a message SoulSail.

[CFTraveler]

the way you describe the Multidimensional human, it sounds like the beginners handbook to spirituality. I would not characterize it like that at all- I would say it's the handbook on spiritual development for those who are well established projectors.

[SoulSail]

One of my favorite aspects about The Multidimensional Human is how the author couches Astral Projection within the much broader topic of holistic spiritual growth. How does one astral experience (part) fit within the whole? There are plenty of books on how to project but precious few on why, and even fewer that explain why personal growth on as many fronts as we're aware is critical.

Soul

[dreaming90]

Lena,

While we're on the subject of meditation, you might want to try metta bhavana (development of lovingkindness).

http://www.wildmind.org/metta

Though it might be a good idea to get a little concentration practice going before trying to develop metta.

[IA56]

Hi Lena, I have bean goin back and forth if I write about my experience about not feeling love or not be sure what I feel and what it is...I noticed rather early that my behaving was rehersed like a role for a play, and when I noticed this was that I did not feel anything but was good at acting, I noticed that I since very early age did feel other peoples feelings and did adobt them and did puch down my own feelings so in some point I was these other people whom feelings I had adopted and had forgotten who I am or what I really feel...so after discovering this I started the journey to my own feeling´s and I can tell it was or is not easy but today I can say I feel love even it is painful many time´s...today I can say I feel real love.
Many years ago when sitting in therapy and my psychologist asked me...What do you think and feel, what is your oppinion IA..I did burst out in real anger and I stod up from my chaire and starting to shout and gell to her....how rude you are...DO YOU ask ME what I feel or think when I was never allowed to feel or think my own thought or express my feelings...Why do you not ask me what my mother feels/thinks or my sister??!!....So from this day I did become aware that I did not have any touch with my own feelings but others adopted feelings...So I really can relate to what you are saying Lena.
It has bean very painful journey but beneficial and I am happy to have connection with my inner me today.
I wish you all strength and curage to meet your self, you are a strong women and sucessful.
All love to you!!

[LenaNight]

Thank you all for the support and relation, its made it easier for me, and gives me hope one day I may know what it feels like to be happy, its not a very good thing to only be able to feel fear, sadness and anger. As a friend reminded me though when I told her what I was going through, she told me while those may be negative emotions I am only able to really feel, at least I feel something, otherwise I'd be a psychopath as they do not feel anything at all, and that is much worse. So I know there is hope for me, but it is a difficult journey.

As to what IA56 has said, I can very much relate, since I've started observing myself I have noticed Im like a actor in a play, I go through life laughing, smiling and all that but its a role play, I do it to fit in out of habit, but its not because I feel anything. I play along to fit in, and it has me questioning just how long this has been going on for.

I will say though, I've been practicing the rise-fall Vissipania breathing exercises, as I am a beginner, and today while I was deep into it, I felt a spark of joy. It came out of nowhere and at first I barely recognized what I was feeling. It was very fleeting, but I did feel it. Is that normal? It makes me want to practice it all the time just on the chance I might feel something positive again.

[CFTraveler]

:heart: