Copy of A few questions for you

[TheSingular]

Hi, i want to ask a question about a few things, i'll list them here.
1.What shuold i expect while meditating, i have tried to meditate today and all i felt was only a trance state,while i was focusing on my breathing,at later stages because of the monkey mind, i forgot to breathe in the rythm (count 4 for in, and 4 for out- i don't hold my breath inside, because when i try to hold my breath in for 2 counts, i automatically hold it out for another 2 counts after the breathing out for 4 counts)
2. When i try to initiate an OBE(i have never succeeded so far, at least there are none that i can remember)
all my muscles get tense and at that state,my body itself could look as if there was a rope attached to a belt on my stomach and i'm hanging on it, or at least it could be exactly like that if there wasn't a bed under me, my physical body goes up a little because of the contraction of the muscles on my leg and my body while i feel some feeling comes from deep within and pushes me up(because i visualize that for the obe, and because i couldn't get any tactile sense while i tried that rope technique, maybe i didn't understand that completely, maybe something else preventsme from feelig that way i don't know).When i realize this i immediately return to my original position, and sometimes i can go on with obe for a bit, inceasing thepower of that feeling i have, but while that happens all things start happening again, and at a point, relaxing my body results in the loss of that feeling, so i have to start again if i want to try again. Why does this happen?
see ya for now....

[CFTraveler]

Hi, i want to ask a question about a few things, i'll list them here.
1.What shuold i expect while meditating, i have tried to meditate today and all i felt was only a trance state,while i was focusing on my breathing,at later stages because of the monkey mind, i forgot to breathe in the rythm (count 4 for in, and 4 for out- i don't hold my breath inside, because when i try to hold my breath in for 2 counts, i automatically hold it out for another 2 counts after the breathing out for 4 counts) Don't expect anything in particular. Give yourself a specific amount of time and meditate for that time. Think of this as if you were reading a book or watching a movie, in the sense that you are just 'seeing what happens'. You don't have to expect anything in particular.
Depending on what type of meditation you are doing, the point is to keep focus on something- your breath, or your counting, or whatever. If holding your breath makes you tense, don't do it. You can observe your breath, do specific breathwork, do a mantra, whatever you want. But try to not expect anything, and see what happens.

2. When i try to initiate an OBE(i have never succeeded so far, at least there are none that i can remember)
all my muscles get tense and at that state,my body itself could look as if there was a rope attached to a belt on my stomach and i'm hanging on it, or at least it could be exactly like that if there wasn't a bed under me, my physical body goes up a little because of the contraction of the muscles on my leg and my body while i feel some feeling comes from deep within and pushes me up(because i visualize that for the obe, and because i couldn't get any tactile sense while i tried that rope technique, maybe i didn't understand that completely, maybe something else preventsme from feelig that way i don't know).When i realize this i immediately return to my original position, and sometimes i can go on with obe for a bit, inceasing thepower of that feeling i have, but while that happens all things start happening again, and at a point, relaxing my body results in the loss of that feeling, so i have to start again if i want to try again. Why does this happen?
see ya for now... Please write out exactly what you do to OBE? You described what the exit technique feels like when you're doing it, but I don't know what steps you took to get to that point, or what you did afterwards.
The more specific you are, the more advice we can give you depending on what you're doing.
Thanks.
CF.

[TheSingular]

Hi, thanks for the reply, and as you wish, i'll be more specific about it:
First, i relax, and get into the trance state, until i feel nothing of my own physical body but something else, it feels like something fills my body from inside, something feels numb and can be movable out of body partly with thought. After that i do a viisualization of another body(thinking of it as the energy body) within me getting out of my physical body by being pulled up by something invisible, or by itself,and all the things i said above happens, unconsiciously moving the body like it's getting pulled up and getting it to the original position when i realize it, also feeling another thing getting pulled up inside me (probably the body i visualize).
And one last thing, there are a total of 4 things that may happen during my trance adn OBE trial and when happens, spoil it, making it longer and harder.
1. Itchy feeling: randomly a part of my body gets itchy during the early stages of trance. Sonmetimes, i can stop it by thinking about its disappearance, and sometimes, i have to itch that part to stop it.
2. Sweating, in summers(like now) i sweat easily and the heat i get while doing this can prevent me from focusing on the OBE happens after the trance state.
3. Throat drying: this is a result of a long trance state whilst i don't know how, sweating makes it easier and like sweating, it gets the attention on itself rather than OBE
4.Monkey mind:This is a thing that happens to me a lot, and when it stops, i find myself in trance state, but nothing else, no matter what.
I wrote some long stuff again so excuse me, I just wanted to write all my experiences in the hope of knowing that where I'm making the mistake. Thank you.

[CFTraveler]

Hi, thanks for the reply, and as you wish, i'll be more specific about it:
First, i relax, and get into the trance state, until i feel nothing of my own physical body but something else, it feels like something fills my body from inside, something feels numb and can be movable out of body partly with thought. After that i do a viisualization of another body(thinking of it as the energy body) within me getting out of my physical body by being pulled up by something invisible, or by itself,and all the things i said above happens, unconsiciously moving the body like it's getting pulled up and getting it to the original position when i realize it, also feeling another thing getting pulled up inside me (probably the body i visualize). It looks as if you're doing visualization-based exit, which puts your conscious awareness 'in' your body looking out. I'm going to give you a few ideas to break that habit.

It looks like you're getting 'body type' discomfort and one mental one that is normal. I will also give you a few ideas to distract your mind from any body feeling you may have.

First, I want you to forget about trying to suppress your 'monkey mind'. Instead I want you to assign a time when it's ok to chatter- give yourself permission to let your mind chatter, and observe what it is saying as if you were listening to the radio or watching TV. Don't try to stop it, merely observe it when it happens.
If you get itches and temperature problems, try doing visualizations to counteract this body discomfort. Imagining cool water washing over your body may be helpful- but do some relaxation exercises (muscle relaxation, that is) in the early part of your routine to help relax you more. If you need to practice naked or with a cover (or whatever) try to get that sorted before you begin. But don't worry about breaking the trance- it's better to be as comfortable as possible before it's time to lose your body consciousness.

So I'd like to see if you can try doing a routine that is roughly in this order:
Muscle relaxation and body relaxation. This prepares you to get comfortable before the serious trancework begins.
Breathwork- this helps relax your mind, gives it something to do while you relax your body further. You still have body identity here, and it's ok. If you do any energy raising, it's ok to do.
At some point, your mind will wander. It's ok. This is what the mind does, it's indexing memories. So you will let it happen, let your mind wander and watch yourself watching your mind. Just let it happen for a certain amount of time. But if at any time you feel yourself getting sleepy, you interrupt the MM and decide that now is the time to work on your trance.
Now you are going to cultivate trance by doing visualizations. This keeps the mind busy with acceptable activity- pictorials are ok, verbiage isn't. So do trance visualizations. There should be some techs in the OBE R & D section. If you get itches and discomfort it's ok to adjust yourself or scratch yourself at this point. But not after this.
Do not try an exit technique until you have some sort of exit sensations. This includes visualizations. Exit cues can be as dramatic as vibrations, noises, voices, or visions. If you can see through your eyelids for more than a moment, you're ready for the exit. If you're not getting any symptoms, then go from trance induction to energy body loosening. E-body is not an exit technique, but it can produce exit sensations (and an exit). Do some of those until you feel ready.
Then either move to an exit technique that is not body-centric, or go into 'noticing'. If you are still not getting any cues you can add a 'mental' mantra to your noticing. If anything different happens (your consciousness seems 'on', like 'hyper aware', then go ahead and try any of the exit techniques listed on the stickied threads in the OBE R & D section. There are many to try, but pick two, and alternate with two in one routine.
If for any reason there is no result, don't turn over and go to sleep. Either go back to trance induction and down the line, or get up and walk around.
Good luck.

[TheSingular]

Whoa man, that was very explaining, some of the stuff you said are the ones i haven't heard of yet, even on the evolution book as i remember.. Astonishing for me....
Thanks for the advices i will definitely try these the next time i try (like tonight)


If you're not getting any symptoms, then go from trance induction to energy body loosening. E-body is not an exit technique, but it can produce exit sensations (and an exit)
i didn't know such thing existed for example,

If for any reason there is no result, don't turn over and go to sleep. Either go back to trance induction and down the line, or get up and walk around.
And that is a mistake i did almost every time i try to obe. I'll follow this advice too, even though i don't know why should i do so. So please tell me why i shouldn't sleep if i don't get a result...
Thanks for everything CT, these valuable advices will help me to get a successful obe
See ya...

[CFTraveler]

You can sleep if you don't get a result, just don't do it right away- get up, walk around, do something for a bit and then go back to bed.
This is because if you set up a pattern for going to sleep after trying your techniques, you will program yourself for going to sleep after trying, instead of projecting.
The human mind tends to turn patterns into habits, that's why ritual is so pervasive, because the mind connects a to b and a new pattern is formed, one you don't want.

ps. I forgot the most important part of the explanation-
Sometimes you separate (or de-integrate from body awareness) but don't notice because you feel awake and can see through the eyelids- and have a symptom-free transition- so you think you failed. Therefore, if you get up after giving up, you may be surprised to find that when you sit up or get up, you actually float away. It's happened to me more than once.

[TheSingular]

First of all, it all makes sense, thanks for the explaining, i get it now. Although i have another habit of sleeping related to how i lie down(face down position, i always sleep in that position and when i want to try to trigger an obe, want to get into trance, or something else; i lie down on my back so if i wat to sleep, it's enough to turn 180 degrees for me to sleep in a few minutes)

second, i tried to trigger an obe exit toight, although i failed again, i can say i've never been so close to the exit. Here's what did i do.

at 12:40 am(for my time zone-is around 11:30 am for the forum's time zone) i went to my bed, lied on my back and relaxed my body while focusing on my breathing. Soon, i got ear tinglings, while i've just got a shallow trance,feeling that a litle around my body, i thought that may be a cue, but first i have to be sure, so i deepened my trance, as it got deeper, the tingling got stronger, so i decided it's just the time to try to trigger the obe.(middle script here: while exploring the forums, i found robert's posts about obe and the rope thecnique, i read it-it was more explaining than the explanation in the book again- so before i started, i've already decided to try that technique and since i've never clibmed a rope in real, when i decided to use it, i used my (physical) arms to animate a fake climbing...) Than i started the rope techique, with added visualization of myself climbing the rope, and a light in the clouds far above me and that light was around the rope. i started climbing, first i got the deeper trance stance, than got the vibrations(while i imagined myself getting closer to the light). Also i have to say i was integrating a background music into my visualization (the ones are supposed to make the listener think something epic is about to happen). So i climbed, climbed, tried and ignored the feelings i come across, than i made the most fatal mistake, reached the light in the visualization and stopped there to take a look around(at that point, the bgm changed as that epic thing is happening and relaxing aftervards). The silly thing is, i did this to find nothing but white light surrounding me. Just when i was having success(i got a feeling i've never felt in my right foot, probably the seperation feeling) that happened and instead of getting obe, it became like an energy gathering (and stimulating maybe) session. In less than one minute, every feeling related with trance and obe stopped, than i felt nothing but a refreshed body(beyond the refreshed state of a newly awaken body, as it is generally a bit dizzy at the start, but i wasn't dizzy at all) finding myself a bit happy and very calm... Than i realized i failed so i started over, but never managed to 'feel properly' my arms climbing (i can say i started from scratch, just skipping the body relaxing). Than i got up, walked for a bit in my room, just to stop the trance, but i couldn't completely stop it. After a while, i got the tingling again, so i went back to my bed, to try again. I started climbing again, but unfortunately, i got caught to the mm again and this time, unlike the ones before, i just got caught to mm and didn't realize that it happened. The thing made me realize it was really interesting, a strong shaking of my body to left and right, just like a pendulum moving left and right, twice per second. it stopped in less than 10 seconds, and although i don't know waht it was, i think it was great. Than i stopped trying to trigger an obe, and started expanding my energy body without an exit technique. Than i got an idea. That is stimulating the chakras by using visualization and expanded energy body. I visualized one of my chakras as a ball that is made of electricity, center white, outer parts blue, and rotating. I expanded the energy body as a glass made energy gathering layer as a shell, and transferring the energy i gathered by that 'shell' to the ball(chakra) as little arcs, making it spin faster, shake later while the arcs get more frequent, increasing the energy transferred and eventually strobing. As i realized now, i forced them to strobe with low energy making the strobing itself ineffective rather than letting them strobe themselves which could be more effective. i guess i should do it like that next time... Whatever, after that i got up and walked a bit more and stretched myselft to get out of trance. Than i returned to my bed to sleep down...

Than i woke up at 8am(generally i wake up at 10-11am), and although i slept less than 7 hours, i feel refreshed like i've slept for more. It's 11:05 am now(it took more than 1 hour to write all this stuff,really), and i'm finishing this post, with new questions:
Just before i made the fatal mistake of the obe trying yesterday night, i got a different feeling in my right foot, it was like it was still in the trance state, but it also felt very relaxed at the same time(whoa dude, i've never had such feeling that is so hard to describe in words). Is that the real separation feeling or something else?
As second question, why did the hamonic shaking happen?
And the last question: I didn't see through my eyelids even after the first failure resulted with a relaxed body, and i think of myself to have auditory skills rather than visual so i wonder if it's ok to not seeing through my eyelids.
You really are helpful a lot, thank you again...
See ya
Ps:Yesterday, when i tried walking to get myself out of trance, it didn't work at all, in both walkings. Maybe i was just sleepy.
Pps: I forgot to find a second exit technique to alternate, and i found that is a really big problem cuz after the first try, you have to stop the trance and start over again to make it work again at least. Even than, you can't completely do it as effective as before.

[CFTraveler]

I don't know what the foot thing was, probably just trance awareness- but at the point of feeling symptoms such as these you have to change your focus from body feelings to 'mind' and focus on going out.

The thing made me realize it was really interesting, a strong shaking of my body to left and right, just like a pendulum moving left and right, twice per second. it stopped in less than 10 seconds, and although i don't know waht it was, i think it was great. Those are separation sensations, vibrations at a slower rate because you're more synched with them.
You may want to re-read the stickied post "Your First Conscious Projection" (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?3522-Your-First-Conscious-Projection), it'll help answer some of your questions.

[TheSingular]

thank you again. as i have new questions, and i think i will probably have some related to my future experiences, i will post them here.

[CFTraveler]

Would you like me to move this to the OBE forum? The link will find it wherever I put it.

[TheSingular]

Sure, thank you

[TheSingular]

Last night, I tried again to exit oob. And now I know what was the feeling on my right foot. It was trance awareness as you said. Well, early stages of my try was usual, so I'll skip it. At later stages I got vibrations, increased ear tinglings and started to feel a fast heartbeat(chakra beat I can say). Than I decided to direct my attention towards my mind. So I focused on my mind and started affirming "I'm exiting". Than it started to feel cold all around my body and I realised it was the feeling I felt on my foot that day. Then I continued affirming. As I was doing that, I started to lose all cues, in fact; all feelings on my body except the cold. I started to become aware of my body again, although I was still affirming. After a while, I was fully aware of my body was still affirming, and feeling nothing. Than I got up to confirm if I exited oob, just to realise I didn't. Than I got back to my bed, to try another method. This time I tried affirmations and split the process into 3 parts: creation of the energy body, shifting conspicuous news between bodies and severing ties between bodies. And the 2nd part of the process made me discover that the numb feeling I h
cft was flawed. Because the numb feeling I for than was just like I got morphine. The feeling I was feeling was more like a few seconds after making numb a part of body by lessening the blood circulation and than removing the object that lessens it. These are good discoveries, I'll keep trying to discover more with the things I learned yesterday...

[CFTraveler]

I misunderstood some of what you wrote above, but I recommend that you try an active exit technique (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?3977-Exit-Techniques)- affirmations are helpful but are not an exit technique- do something to exteriorize your energy body and support it with affirmations.

[TheSingular]

Now it's my turn to ask you to be descriptive,exactly what do you think you misunderstood, and I'll try to explain it another way so you can understand and, well, help me. But whatever, I'll try these techniques, at least some of them. See ya.

[CFTraveler]

And the 2nd part of the process made me discover that the numb feeling I h
cft was flawed. Because the numb feeling I for than was just like I got morphine. The feeling I was feeling was more like a few seconds after making numb a part of body by lessening the blood circulation and than removing the object that lessens it. You lost me there..

[TheSingular]

First of all, i realized i never got injected with morphine, it was causing general anesthesia, while i only got a local one. I went to a dentist that day, one of my teeth was teetering a bit. He anesthesized my lower jaw to pull the teeth although he never managed to pull my teeth that day because somehow, it was still hurting when he tried to pull that tooth.
The point is: The feeling i got after the cold was more like i was getting anesthesized, while that one i felt before that(getting into trance first), i found it was a bit flawed. That's what i'm talking about

[TheSingular]

Well, i can surely say this is amazing, as i feel and learn new things when i try it again and again, and everytime that happens. This time i felt a new feeling starting around upper-middle of my head(i guess this is where my brow chakra should be). it felt like i was just kicked in the head, but not painfully. Than, it expanded to my neck, and than to my shoulders, there it stopped expanding, and slowly vanished as i tried to go further in my obe trial. As i learned from the manifestation and healing course(which i recently managed to buy it and access it along with astral projection mastery course) it might be related with an energy blockage opeing up there.On the other hand, it's also said this is a cue for the brow chakra strobing, but i don't remember any flashes of light. i wonder what happened out there.

[TheSingular]

P.S. for my post #16:

The point is: The feeling i got after the cold was more like i was getting anesthesized, while that one i felt before that(getting into trance first), i found it was a bit flawed. That's what i'm talking about
i found out that that feeling i was feeling i was having all the time was never a dumb feeling, but somehow, it was the feeling generally used to stimulate the energy body... Interesting...