Enlightenment (copied from Ask Robert)

[Barry]

Greetings Robert and anyone else who reads this post.

I wanted to ask you about an event that occured to me some years ago (June 2007). I had exams, so I was studying at my desk.

I wanted to take a break, so I went ahead and lied down on my bed (with my back supported). I don't think I was doing something special, just closing my eyes for a second - or maybe reading some school stuff, perhaps even reading something completely else- without looking much at the latter (I don't remember exactly). Either way, I was relaxing.

All of a sudden, I felt a bright, warm light coming over me. I didn't see it with my eyes, I actually felt this light and I saw it with my 'astral vision' (unsure that's correct, but I didn't see it with my normal eyesight, I saw it with my 'inner eyes', I saw this light going in my body, starting from the top of my head).

Then I knew everything. I knew why we lived, why we had to die, I knew everything that needed to be known and people have wondered since the dawn of time. In those few seconds, I knew it all. To me it seemed like minutes, but I know that this feeling was only for a few seconds.

The feeling was still there when I realised I had to write it all down ! I stood up from my bed, grabbed a piece of paper and ... Poof, it was all gone.

This was the first and last time I had this feeling, and it was awesome, breathtaking and maybe even a bit scary.

Now my questions are:
- Was I really 'enlightened' ?
- How was this possible ? I was for sure in a relaxed state and thinking about nothing specific, but I surely didn't see that one coming.
- Why was the feeling abruptly gone when I wanted to write it down ? Is it because maybe I 'broke' the trance by standing up ? Maybe humanity (including myself) is not ready yet to know the answers on these questions ?
- Any other additonial information is welcomed.

I myself may be able to answer the 2nd question, or at least who or what influenced me at that point. I'd rather not post this on the forum publicly. If someone replies, I'll send it over by PM.

Thanks,

[CFTraveler]

Now my questions are:
- Was I really 'enlightened' ? You had a peak experience, also known as a mystical experience, or a whole host of other names. I suppose you could say you were enlightened too, if you like that word.

- How was this possible ? I was for sure in a relaxed state and thinking about nothing specific, but I surely didn't see that one coming. That's because it's something that happens to you, not something you do.

- Why was the feeling abruptly gone when I wanted to write it down ? Is it because maybe I 'broke' the trance by standing up ? Not all experiences are translatable. That's why most mystical experiences turn into religions, because followers don't have them, they just hear about them and don't understand.

Maybe humanity (including myself) is not ready yet to know the answers on these questions ? But you did 'have it', if only for a moment. That's why the meaning of 'mystical' is both 'inner' and 'mysterious'- we have a certain instrumentation to convey thoughts or ideas, (the verbal and conceptual parts of the brain) but experiences such as what you had are not easily expressed. I suppose it's part of the experience, the 'not being able to express it' adequately.

[dreaming90]

Your experience is remarkably similar to that of a Zen author I read not too long ago, though I don't recall who exactly. IIRC they saw a "shining void" for what seemed to last an eternity (but was in reality only a second or two) and when they returned to normal consciousness, they "had it."

Maybe some meditation will bring this experience back. My educated guess is that this experience came from your Higher Self/ Oversoul.

[ButterflyWoman]

That's why most mystical experiences turn into religions, because followers don't have them, they just hear about them and don't understand.
Yes. This.


I suppose it's part of the experience, the 'not being able to express it' adequately.
Indeed. And an extremely frustrating part of it, too. Words are entirely inadequate, often confusing, and incredibly clumsy.

The fact that all great spiritual masters speak using metaphor, analogy, koan, parable, paradox/riddle, and so on is a very good example of this. There are things which are simply not things that can be explained, translated, transliterated, whatever. If you're good at metaphor, you might be able to make one up that kind of conveys the idea, but unless someone has actually had the experience (or some approximation of it), they won't understand.

I've been having mystical experiences, some of them profound, since I was a young child, and for what it's worth, I've had the experience you're describing. I don't know that I'd call that "enlightenment", but you can if you want to (I don't think the words matter, particularly; as I mentioned, they're inadequate, confusing, and clumsy). I can't write down or otherwise communicate what I knew and understood in that state, and I never could have, but the experience (which I seem to recall having had more than once, actually) did contribute to a permanent shift in my perception of reality. Along with other events, some mundane, some mystical, things got shifted and shifted and moved and removed and so forth until a permanent level of awareness was present all the time, a kind of lucidity, for lack of a better term.

Don't worry that it didn't stay with you. It will have left its mark, and that's enough. Remember, though, that this isn't really about "you", it's about Awareness becoming aware of Itself, through you. These experiences are just experiences, and it's best not to get too hung up on them and what they mean or don't mean, etc. Their purpose is to get "you" out of the way enough that Awareness can eventually have some degree of Self-awareness.

[SoulSail]

Kensho vs. Satori.

The former is a glimpse into the latter, permanent state of enlightenment.

A few years ago I was hiking a remote mountain valley with a friend and he'd gone on ahead of me since I couldn't quit stopping at every wildflower to admire.

Then "it" happened.

I came across four or five flowers, just these brilliant red things growing close to the ground. When I bent down to look I suddenly "understood."

Understood what?

That's the ineffable part--no words convey. However, in that moment of bending to look, I understood with absolute clarity that every joy I'd ever experienced, every good thing had, at the time I experienced it, sprang into its own existence and was living "out there." So here I was, stunned and silent, and every wonderful memory merges at once and presents itself individually, yet part of a whole. I knew then that I'd always existed, and always will. I knew the Universe, strange as it was/is had order, love, and guidance behind it where before I had come to believe it was cold, even predatory.

And as quickly as the experience came, it went.

I never told my hiking companion.

Soul

[Barry]

You had a peak experience, also known as a mystical experience, or a whole host of other names. I suppose you could say you were enlightened too, if you like that word.


It's not that I 'like' that specific word, I thought it was the best fitting description for this experience :) . I felt something light and bright in my whole being.



That's because it's something that happens to you, not something you do.

That's true.



Not all experiences are translatable. That's why most mystical experiences turn into religions, because followers don't have them, they just hear about them and don't understand.

I've re-read this sentence and you're spot on on this one. Mystical experiences have a different meaning for different kinds of people. I do not know the religion of anyone on this forum, but it is amazing to know that X religion even exists because someone in history (may) had such an experience.



But you did 'have it', if only for a moment. That's why the meaning of 'mystical' is both 'inner' and 'mysterious'- we have a certain instrumentation to convey thoughts or ideas, (the verbal and conceptual parts of the brain) but experiences such as what you had are not easily expressed. I suppose it's part of the experience, the 'not being able to express it' adequately.

Yes. However, do you think a chance exists that if someone has this 'enlightenment', this experience, would it be transferable by X or Y means, for example by holding hands in that moment and actually 'handing' over the experience ? The holding hands is just an example of course, I have no idea on how such a thing would even be possible, since the experience just 'comes'.

[Barry]

Your experience is remarkably similar to that of a Zen author I read not too long ago, though I don't recall who exactly. IIRC they saw a "shining void" for what seemed to last an eternity (but was in reality only a second or two) and when they returned to normal consciousness, they "had it."


Please do let us know if you recall the name. The "shining void" is a very appropriate description for this experience I had.



Maybe some meditation will bring this experience back. My educated guess is that this experience came from your Higher Self/ Oversoul.

Well this experience occurred in 2007, I'm not sure it can be brought back from that long ago ? But then again, what is 'time' anyway. I suppose I will get on to meditation at some point. I will be ordering some of Bruce's work (books) soon.

Can you explain the last sentence in a bit more detail if possible ? I'm quite new at this. Thank you for your opinion as well.

[Barry]

The fact that all great spiritual masters speak using metaphor, analogy, koan, parable, paradox/riddle, and so on is a very good example of this. There are things which are simply not things that can be explained, translated, transliterated, whatever. If you're good at metaphor, you might be able to make one up that kind of conveys the idea, but unless someone has actually had the experience (or some approximation of it), they won't understand.


That makes sense. Which also brings me to my question to if it would be possible to transfer this experience to someone ?



Don't worry that it didn't stay with you. It will have left its mark, and that's enough. Remember, though, that this isn't really about "you", it's about Awareness becoming aware of Itself, through you. These experiences are just experiences, and it's best not to get too hung up on them and what they mean or don't mean, etc. Their purpose is to get "you" out of the way enough that Awareness can eventually have some degree of Self-awareness.

I will, but it's not easy to not get hung up about it, especially when I discovered this forum ;) . Either way, thanks for the kind words ! What entity is this "Awareness" exactly ? I think I get your point but I'm not sure.

[Barry]

Kensho vs. Satori.

The former is a glimpse into the latter, permanent state of enlightenment.

A few years ago I was hiking a remote mountain valley with a friend and he'd gone on ahead of me since I couldn't quit stopping at every wildflower to admire.

Then "it" happened.

I came across four or five flowers, just these brilliant red things growing close to the ground. When I bent down to look I suddenly "understood."

Understood what?

That's the ineffable part--no words convey. However, in that moment of bending to look, I understood with absolute clarity that every joy I'd ever experienced, every good thing had, at the time I experienced it, sprang into its own existence and was living "out there." So here I was, stunned and silent, and every wonderful memory merges at once and presents itself individually, yet part of a whole. I knew then that I'd always existed, and always will. I knew the Universe, strange as it was/is had order, love, and guidance behind it where before I had come to believe it was cold, even predatory.

And as quickly as the experience came, it went.

I never told my hiking companion.

Soul

Whow, I could actually imagine your whole experience ! (I have a vivid fantasy.) That sounded wonderful, I guess you felt the peak of joy, and connected with nature and the complete Universe as a whole ?

I have only told one of my best friends about this, and he was like "whoah, strange". I think he wanted to believe me since we've known each other for a long time, but as explained above, I suppose he couldn't 'grasp' it.


Thank you all for your kind and informative replies ! I'll also eagerly await Robert's input on this.


Admin/Mod:
Apologies for the 'quadruple' post but I felt it would be easier for me/us this way to reply.
Don't hesitate to merge my posts if necessary or any other action you would find appropriate.
Also, gratitude for changing the topic titles by adding an extra "en" to it.

[CFTraveler]

No problem, you were just answering piecemeal.
For the record, I don't think it's transferable, at least not 'in the flesh'. Idk however if it's possible to do so in the nonphysical- what people sometimes call 'initiatory experiences', but I get the feeling this is something beyond my ken.
The most I can do is nod knowingly when someone recounts the immensity of their experiences, and try to re-grasp my own, which have faded considerably.

[dreaming90]

Please do let us know if you recall the name. The "shining void" is a very appropriate description for this experience I had.

I remember the experience being referenced in the Zen Buddhism chapter of Charles Tart's "Transpersonal Psychologies" textbook. That's about all I remember at the moment.


Well this experience occurred in 2007, I'm not sure it can be brought back from that long ago ? But then again, what is 'time' anyway. I suppose I will get on to meditation at some point. I will be ordering some of Bruce's work (books) soon.
Time is an illusion, there's no rush.


Can you explain the last sentence in a bit more detail if possible ? I'm quite new at this. Thank you for your opinion as well.
I believe that one's Higher Self sends little "nudges" like this from time to time. Actually, come to think of it, I think someone in Buhlman's second book had an experience with their Higher Self similar to yours... "The Secret of the Soul" is the name of the book.

[ButterflyWoman]

What entity is this "Awareness" exactly ? I think I get your point but I'm not sure.
It's not an entity. It's Everything. :)

[Barry]

No problem, you were just answering piecemeal.
For the record, I don't think it's transferable, at least not 'in the flesh'. Idk however if it's possible to do so in the nonphysical- what people sometimes call 'initiatory experiences', but I get the feeling this is something beyond my ken.
The most I can do is nod knowingly when someone recounts the immensity of their experiences, and try to re-grasp my own, which have faded considerably.

Agreed.



I remember the experience being referenced in the Zen Buddhism chapter of Charles Tart's "Transpersonal Psychologies" textbook. That's about all I remember at the moment.

Time is an illusion, there's no rush.

I believe that one's Higher Self sends little "nudges" like this from time to time. Actually, come to think of it, I think someone in Buhlman's second book had an experience with their Higher Self similar to yours... "The Secret of the Soul" is the name of the book.

Agreed as well, unfortunately our system in the West is constantly focused on time.

Your reply also answered a future question I had; if anyone was familiar with William Buhlman's work.



It's not an entity. It's Everything. :)

Confirms my thoughts ;) .


Thanks all for your reply !

[heliac]

IMO the western(linear, the future, the past, details and categorizations of the present, calculation, autonomy, i am, "the ego") system is one part of two dominant ways of being. The other being is holistic, present, information is experienced as sensual energy, one-ness with the universe and family orientation( we are all brothers and sisters ).

It is true we spend a whole lot more time in the "western" modality but i don't think it is a good idea to antagonize or label this way of being as something that should be vilified or treated as the source of suffering or misunderstanding.Condemning this way of being enables it.

I think that we are both.I am the linear, time focused, American male, Heliac from astral dynamic :), "western" mode. I am also the whole everything, connected to everyone, there is no difference between me and the floor i am sitting on and everything else in my surroundings. When the whole everything is experienced more and more it starts to become apparent that the two ways of being are choice driven and that you can step in and out of both because you are both, even though the two beings contradict themselves.

[Barry]

When the whole everything is experienced more and more it starts to become apparent that the two ways of being are choice driven and that you can step in and out of both because you are both, even though the two beings contradict themselves.

Thanks for your reply and well said !

Don't you think however that some people will make the choice to stay in only one way of being ? I find myself stepping in and out at times, but I'm more focused on the 'Western' view.

Which is of course logical cause we're all (or most) raised this way. How easy or hard would it be to change completely, or to step in and out easily ? After all, it's quite a shift from one way to the other.

But yeah, I agree that we all have this in us, I suppose you can compare it with the fact that we all have some evil and some good in us, right ?

Cheers !

[heliac]

Hi Barry,

Sure, i think people make the choice at every given moment. Although personally i like the idea of balance between the two, that is what is working for me at the moment. I love my "western" life just as much as i do love being in the connected to all.

I bet it is a lot easier than you may think. Meditation can help, a little bit through out the day rather than one extended sitting may work for you.

Yea i guess you could compare it to evil and good, but not really if you mean the western life is evil and the all everything is good. When we start talking about good and evil, morality will end up being the main point of the discussion. I guess that is a side bar. But if you are curious at all about that i think there are deeds that are not morally good/evil relative to individuals or culture.

[Barry]

Heliac,

Thanks for your insights. I sometimes have enough of this Western 'world' and just want to sit and relax, do absolutely nothing but meditate.

That's quite strange for me to say though, I actually never meditated. Well I have relaxed of course with some stunning, powerful and calming music, so I guess that's close to meditation.

And yes, but what is morality at all ? In each culture it differs. What is good. What is evil. Who made up those terms ? Who made the 'rules' of what good and what evil is ?

There's a saying in my language, which roughly translates to: one man dieing, is another job for the undertaker. So I guess it's pretty broad.

Balance seems to be the keyword here. It's all about balance :) . Thanks for your reflections.

[heliac]

Hi Barry

I hear ya it can be nice to take a break and just rest sometimes. :)

I agree music is great for calming down and allowing your body to feel rhythms and enjoy yourself.

I think that you are the ultimate judge for what you consider to be right or wrong, but you can't survive as a single human being so standards in morality, the'rules' are set as a group. You can see variance in the standards on morality within societies and individuals but i believe there are universal standards that can be accepted.

For example, slavery. I believe at any point in time regardless of what any society or individual or doctrine says that owning another human being against their will is immoral.

[Barry]

heliac, I fully agree with you, thanks for your reply :) !

[Barry]

When reading Secret of the Soul (by Buhlman), I crossed a statement I could relate with. A lot.




[...]
When the motion slowed, I asked for clarity and was overwhelmed by the absolute energy I felt within and around me. I could see 360 degrees of an infinite light, and yet it wasn't the psychical me that was experiencing this. It was as though I suddenly knew everything about everything and was totally in a peaceful, loving place. When I came back to my physical body, I knew that my life would never be the same.



Just wanted to share :).