Using Meditation to project? Or no? Here's my problem.

[AstralCody]

Every OBE that I have had seems to be spontaneous during naps. I get a VERY intense falling sensation and I just roll out with ease. When that hits me, I know what to do from there. I love the feeling so much. How can I have this happen to me everytime I lay down? That would be so wonderful. Meditation doesn't seem to do it for me and here is why.

When I lay down to meditate I can achieve a falling sensation everytime. I held it for ten seconds once and literally lost all connection to my physical body. Am I still too "awake" though? I consciously realize that I do have a physical body when I meditate, is that my problem? It always feels like I am so close to separating when I meditate but it's not the same as my spontaneous sensations. I laid down meditating for an hour becoming one. Keeping in mind I will be an observer. My Third eye chakra kicked in, my heart chakra kicked in, and I became disconnected with my physical body. I couldn't feel it anyway.

I am not sure if I was in sleep paralysis or just REALLY relaxed. I could move my body if I wanted to but everything was numb... It was almost like no blood was circulating because when I terminated the session my arm was numb and tingly. I am aiming for sleep paralysis and I don't think this was it. Was I close?

It just seems to me that meditation can be so peaceful but never allows me to have an OBE.
How great would it be if I could everytime I meditated. That's my goal... I just seem to lay there for an hour and I get sensations like no other, but I never separate.

I don't fight it... I am not scared, or excited. I just AM. I stay spiritually awake but seem to just lay there.

Like I said my OBE's ONLY happen if I am asleep and wake up with a falling sensation. How can I get out every night then? (Or most nights) I know I am so close to doing so... It seems every night now something happens. It's almost like I am missing one little thing stopping me. But, I have no clue what it is.

Simple question though... Should meditation be used as a way of getting out of body? I sometimes mix an AP attempt when I meditate but usually I just "observe."

I know I am so close and it's making me go nuts! My goal is to start consciously projecting. Right now I am waking up out of dreams finding myself falling and I go from there. but I have no clue how I trigger that most times.

[CFTraveler]

Wow, where to start.
First of all, you are labeling something, and meditation is only a part of an OBE attempt. If you want to project consciously, you have to do it by causing a deep trance. Meditation is a way to do it but there are other ways too, that keep your mind busy without falling asleep.

How can I get out every night then? You can start by not thinking of getting out every night. This is an unrealistic expectation, and those usually bring lack of success. Go for once a week, but practice daily.


When I lay down to meditate I can achieve a falling sensation everytime. I held it for ten seconds once and literally lost all connection to my physical body. Am I still too "awake" though? I consciously realize that I do have a physical body when I meditate, is that my problem? It always feels like I am so close to separating when I meditate but it's not the same as my spontaneous sensations. First of all, you are too involved with sensations of your body (I'm numb, but conscious of it, etc.) forget that. You don't think about your body at all, and you don't just want to have a falling sensation- you want to be able to see stuff, maybe hear stuff, and maybe feel floaty. You need to at this point be in an observer mode, and not of your body.


I laid down meditating for an hour becoming one. Keeping in mind I will be an observer. My Third eye chakra kicked in, my heart chakra kicked in, and I became disconnected with my physical body. I couldn't feel it anyway.

I am not sure if I was in sleep paralysis or just REALLY relaxed. I could move my body if I wanted to but everything was numb... It was almost like no blood was circulating because when I terminated the session my arm was numb and tingly. I am aiming for sleep paralysis and I don't think this was it. Was I close?
The best way to test for this is to try an exit technique. If you truly could move then just get up and walk away. Could you do it?

It just seems to me that meditation can be so peaceful but never allows me to have an OBE.
How great would it be if I could everytime I meditated. That's my goal... I just seem to lay there for an hour and I get sensations like no other, but I never separate.

I don't fight it... I am not scared, or excited. I just AM. I stay spiritually awake but seem to just lay there.

Like I said my OBE's ONLY happen if I am asleep and wake up with a falling sensation. It seems that you are projecting but not moving away. I have a few suggestions:
First, when you get these symptoms, do you move into energy body loosening before trying an exit? When you try an exit, what happens? Do you do a dynamic exit, or a passive 'using imagination' one?

Have you considered getting up two hours before it's time to get up, sitting up in your bed or in a recliner, and then trying for trance/exit from there?

[AstralCody]

Thank you so much for the reply CFT. I know I kinda make these topics often... Just I know that I am so close so I am really wanting to seek some answers.

"It seems that you are projecting but not moving away. I have a few suggestions:
First, when you get these symptoms, do you move into energy body loosening before trying an exit? When you try an exit, what happens? Do you do a dynamic exit, or a passive 'using imagination' one?

Have you considered getting up two hours before it's time to get up, sitting up in your bed or in a recliner, and then trying for trance/exit from there?"

Usually "My spontaneous projections" I just get the falling feeling and I literally pop out with no technique. These often happen after sleep and are very dreamy like but are definitely projections. Sometimes, like this afternoon... I had a panic attack and was going on three hours of sleep. I laid down and had so many experiences I couldn't count. This time I found myself going into sleep paralysis every ten seconds or so.

I experimented with this. I went into sleep paralysis, fought it... and then went into sleep paralysis again every ten seconds. This repeated about 30 times no joke. I finally decided to let it go full on and I heard my name, I heard voices talking to me, and I could move my astral arm and leg but seemed "Stuck" I could not open my eyes it was very strange. I had 3 OBE's but they were very dreamy. I had no clue where I was though. It was kinda real... like 25% real. I kept looking at my hands saying clarity now but nothing happened. I wanted to go a few places but I stayed where I was. So happy I had those experiences though... Today was extremely hard for me.

I haven't tried the two hour before getting up thing. I'm going to give this a shot and I'll let you know what happens.

I appreciate it CFT.
-Cody

[dreaming90]

Meditation is a very broad way of inducing altered states of consciousness... Tibetan monks spent well over a decade meditating in order to have an OBE. Compare that to the 90 days that Bruce's MAP promises, or the 30 days that Buhlman's techniques promise.

I guess you could say that trance is more of a hypnotic state of consciousness, as opposed to a meditative state. Meditation is good for training your mind, but you aren't leaving your body any time soon without some decent trance work.

[CFTraveler]

I could not open my eyes it was very strange. Why were you trying to open your eyes?
When you first project and are close to your body, sometimes there is no sight because you are still getting input from your physical eyes. So the environment may not be clear, or you may just not see. I know many authors (including Robert) tell you to say "clarity now" but this has never worked for me.
I usually don't do that, I just feel my way away from my body, and then when I get far enough it just comes.

Ps. I see you never answered the question about the energy body loosening before the exit attempt.

[AstralCody]

Dreaming- Will look into this, thank you!

CFT-
"Why were you trying to open your eyes?
When you first project and are close to your body, sometimes there is no sight because you are still getting input from your physical eyes. So the environment may not be clear, or you may just not see. I know many authors (including Robert) tell you to say "clarity now" but this has never worked for me.
I usually don't do that, I just feel my way away from my body, and then when I get far enough it just comes."

I was still in my physically body. I could feel some of my physical features. I was laying down. I could barely move. I was moving my astral arm but that's all I could move laying there. I tried opening my eyes and I couldn't.

I forgot about the energy body loosening, my bad! What exactly do you mean by this?
-Cody

[CFTraveler]

I forgot about the energy body loosening...... What exactly do you mean by this?
-Cody
http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?7287-Energy-Body-Loosening-Methods

[AstralCody]

The side to side one ESPECIALLY. I roll out all the time.

I will give the others a shot I haven't tried those.

Do I do these before I get the sensations? For example... "Feel falling sensations hit and other symptoms" then do the energy body loosening? Then proceed with a technique? This is all really interesting to me because the "roll out" was always my technique. :|

Sorry for the confusion CFT. I know this is alot of questions.

PS: When I said above that "getting out everynight" statement I re read that, and didn't mean it in a way of I am losing patients or something. I can see how it came off that way though. I guess I am just super pumped about this whole subject. I'm so happy with how many experiences I do have right now. I'm trying very hard.:-) It helps my anxiety so much. I can't go anywhere without having panic attacks anymore.

[CFTraveler]

The roll out can be an exit technique and it can be an energy loosening technique, it just depends on how you use it. If you use rollout as an exit technique (which is perfectly legitimate) then use something else as a loosening technique, there are many for that reason.
And

Do I do these before I get the sensations? I usually do, but you can use them after sensations start too.

For example... "Feel falling sensations hit and other symptoms" then do the energy body loosening? Then proceed with a (n exit) technique? Sure.

[GRANT]

Just my 2 cents--I agree--you need to trance and develope a loosening technique. If you get the vibrations, use the peaks to pop out. (My vibrations have all but vanished) Still once in a while they come and getting out is much easier. IMO the loosening techniques can take the place of the vibrations--spinning, rolling, bouncing, etc. are kind of like a vibration substitute.

Having said that, I wonder if the loosening techniques cause a hampering of the vibrations, because we are retraining our etheric body another way. However, the techniques can be more predicable because we are training/developing with them--as opposed to the random vibrations. Yes-- move away quickly or you may be "sucked" back in--just as quickly or even simultaneous with the exit.

Grant

[dreaming90]

Fred made a good post on the EIC forum...

I do wonder, though, whether meditative approaches cannot also work against you when it comes to out of body practice.

Many practitioners of meditation do not seem quite aware at how far and deep most projectors go in order to get into the right state to project, and quieting your mind has little to do with it in my opinion.

For example, some monks work for decades to reach the void through meditation, whereas many modern-day projectors do not experience these difficulties.

I sometimes have the impression that the "empty mind" or "point of consciousness state" described, is nothing more than "clicking out" as often occurs as a sideways step from the mind awake/body asleep state.

It is a fairly light meditative state.

It is in fact a state one wants to avoid, since projecting occurs with intent, and with full mind. It doesn't need to be quiet at all in my experience. You can project with a lot of chatter going on.

I can see the use of meditation practice though, in various ways, and for several reasons. But not necessarily to project in the most efficient way in a reasonable amount of time, for most.

Link (http://www.explorations-in-consciousness.com/forums/index.php?topic=2314.msg14166#new)

[GRANT]

Actually, even if using the breatheing technique only, and not getting hung up on it, will get you out; no matter what position you are in.--------just breathe---------------focus on the breathing in a relaxing way--don't try to figure it out.

Grant

[SoulSail]

This may or may not add much, but here's my take:

~ Expectation is the bane of meditation. And it's fairly tough to project without setting intent and expecting success, so I don't like mixing exits with my core practice of Vipassana. But that's just me.

~ While meditation has often drawn me into transcendental states, as a practice, I do not use it as a springboard for anything other than learning to quiet the mind and go within. If the mystical happens (and it does...often), great, but that's not why I'm there. Phenomena come and go and can even be considered distractions (and they often are).

~ However, I believe that my meditation practice has taught me plenty on how to hold awareness while my body goes to sleep--this is awfully helpful when you're trying to do Mind Awake, Body Asleep while projecting.

So I guess it all comes down to you motives for one and the other, and it looks like CFT and others have addressed a number of those so I'll get off my little soapbox here. But in short, meditation is a killer tool to use for projecting, but I prefer to leave meditation itself alone, bring nothing to it, expect nothing from it. Or as the Bon Tibetan's say "Just leave it as it is."


Regards,

Soul

[AstralCody]

Thank you so much everyone for the replies.

@dreamng- It's funny you say... I have never projected meditating before. One time (My clearest OBE I ever had.) I was laying down... I answered the intercom thing because my grandma called down to me. So I had to get out of bed. I laid back down and within 8 seconds I had the falling feeling hit me like a ton of bricks. Literally only 8 seconds then Boom I was out. I was EXTREMELY tired too. That may have had something to do with it.

[SiriusTraveler]

I have alternated meditation with trancework for over a year now and I have never fallen so deep into trance when meditating as when doing trancework. I have never felt any vibrations when doing either though. I have felt falling sensations and feelings of clearer tought etc. in both cases but when doing trancework I have experienced much more deep sensations then when meditating. When meditating I have felt better synchronicity between my mind and brain though, and felt that I had much clearer toughts, much more clarity. When doing trancework I have felt this clarity, but not on the level as when meditating. Its as if the haze of toughts are still there when doing trancework.
I feel that there is a much much better chanse of leaving the body doing regular trancework then when meditating, but that meditation clearly helps improve everything about inducing trancestates. I have yet to sink as deep as many of the people here, let alone leave my body, but this is my take on it.