BWG vs Nothing?

[Scorpyn]

Has anyone tried doing "regular" meditation instead of bwg assisted meditation, and come to some sort of conclusion as to what seems to be more effective?

The reason I'm asking is that when doing the bwg exercises you're effectively adding time to the program, which should in itself make progress faster whether bwg is actually helping or not.

[Tom]

The nice thing about binaurals and other entrainment methods is that they give you the advantages of meditative states without the effort of having to spend years developing them. You can then channel those advantages back toward the process of learning to re-create those states based on the memories of having been in them. The traditional methods will have becomes easier and more effective. I found that the only brand that really worked for me at first was Centerpointe's holosync, but after spending some time using it I was able to get benefits from other varieties of binaural programs like BW Gen and Transparent Corp.

[CFTraveler]

When I did the 90 day program I used the bwg once a week, sometimes once every two weeks. I don't know how that answers your questions- but now I don't use it at all, unless I'm feeling particularly stressed and feel like 'zoning out'- I feel it helps with 'drowning out' daily noise. But I don't really use it often. Maybe once every couple of months.

[Tempestinateapot]

I would just like to point out that it doesn't take years for everyone to develop deep trance states. It all depends on the person or who was teaching them. I have clients that accomplish very deep levels of trance in their first session. Others take longer, but I haven't come across anyone who can't go deep by the 5th session. If you tell people it will be very difficult, then it usually will be difficult for them if they don't know any better. Suggestion can be very powerful.

[Apex]

I will add that technology has and will continue to allow faster progress in metaphysical practice. As far as things taking years, I would agree that being able to meditate deeply and effectively doesn't take years. However, there are many practices that have taken years in the past but now do not, simply because there are more avenues (related to technological advance) available to get there.

Some say that frequent use of BWG-type mechanisms can develop dependence. I personally think that's a load of crap, since people tend to fall out of using them in the long run. Since you have the capability to use such technology, I would do so until you no longer feel the necessity to do so. I still use BWG, but only for certain things like remote viewing. Otherwise, I sit in relative silence.

[Scorpyn]

Interesting points, thanks :D

[Tom]

Yes, it is possible to go into a fairly deep trance fairly quickly. That's not the point. I'm talking about meditation. I still maintain that there is a difference between a trance and meditation. Trances are much easier because people go into them all the time. Meditation is about coming out of them.

[Tempestinateapot]

Yes, and I still maintain that there is no difference between trance and meditation. :D The only difference is in people's own particular perspective. The point I'm trying to make is that it puts people off from even trying when they are told that it takes years to develop. There is far too much one-upping in the New Age and even Eastern philosophies. Too many supposed "secrets" that you have to pay to learn or spend time adoring a teacher who may or may not have any enlightenment. You don't have to "master" anything to have incredible experiences. Some things just flow when the time is right. The most powerful experiences I've had have been completely spontaneous. Just being "open" to having an experience can sometimes be more powerful than using a technique.

Using artificially produced sounds can be wonderful for some and distracting for others. I sometimes use a headphone set called a Neuro-tech which produces a beep in one ear with a corresponding tingle from the paddle held in the hand on the same side as the beep. It then switches to the other side with a beep and a tingle. It's a wonderful meditation device for me and others, but I've had clients actually rip it off and throw it across the room because it was so irritating. Everyone is unique. What works for you can only be discovered by trying it yourself.

[Tom]

Meditation techniques can be described simply and taught easily. They can get results quickly, in less than a week, and experiences can come as fast as the first attempt. Meditation is another matter and usually takes decades to learn. Meditation is not about having experiences or doing techniques. That is not meant to discourage anyone.

[CFTraveler]

Meditation techniques can be described simply and taught easily. They can get results quickly, in less than a week, and experiences can come as fast as the first attempt. Meditation is another matter and usually takes decades to learn. Meditation is not about having experiences or doing techniques. That is not meant to discourage anyone. There's something I didn't understand here: Meditation techniques versus meditation itself?

[Tom]

Often I read that the process of learning to meditate is like a bucket of water. It is so automated to keep churning the water that the mud and gravel and sand keep mixing around and do not settle to the bottom. The water is never clear. You can't just tell someone to stop churning the water to let the water clear and the junk settle to the bottom. It is a lot easier to give that effort and energy a different outlet: a meditation technique. The energy from the churning gradually goes instead into the technique and the water begins to clear. I'd argue that this is the limit of the comparison, because in the mind the mud and gravel and sand are transformed into positive qualities while in the bucket of water there is always the potential that someone will be able to kick the bucket and stir it up again. When the water has cleared, and the tendency to keep stirring it is gone, it is necessary to drop the technique. At this point even the technique (because it is an artificial modification of the mind) must be dropped. Not before then. As long as the tendency to keep churning the water is there, the technique is needed. When the tendency is gone, the technique can be dropped. At this point it is finally meditation. The nice thing about binaurals is that if you find a brand that works for you they are like putting your bucket of muddy water into a centrifuge. The process is actually a lot rougher, and it is a good thing if you become irritated from time to time. The point is to clear the water, and a centrifuge is faster than waiting for gravity to do all the work on its own.

[CFTraveler]

Often I read that the process of learning to meditate is like a bucket of water. It is so automated to keep churning the water that the mud and gravel and sand keep mixing around and do not settle to the bottom. The water is never clear. You can't just tell someone to stop churning the water to let the water clear and the junk settle to the bottom. It is a lot easier to give that effort and energy a different outlet: a meditation technique. The energy from the churning gradually goes instead into the technique and the water begins to clear. I'd argue that this is the limit of the comparison, because in the mind the mud and gravel and sand are transformed into positive qualities while in the bucket of water there is always the potential that someone will be able to kick the bucket and stir it up again. When the water has cleared, and the tendency to keep stirring it is gone, it is necessary to drop the technique. At this point even the technique (because it is an artificial modification of the mind) must be dropped. Not before then. As long as the tendency to keep churning the water is there, the technique is needed. When the tendency is gone, the technique can be dropped. At this point it is finally meditation. The nice thing about binaurals is that if you find a brand that works for you they are like putting your bucket of muddy water into a centrifuge. The process is actually a lot rougher, and it is a good thing if you become irritated from time to time. The point is to clear the water, and a centrifuge is faster than waiting for gravity to do all the work on its own. Thank you for the clarification. (no pun intended).

[BriMercer]

Tom,

Excellent metaphor.

I wanted to weigh in on the BWGen as preparatory work for learning OBE. First of all, I agree that the BWGen isn't necessary for learning meditation or OBE. The BWGen is just another tool. I kind of see it like those machines that spit out tennis balls so tennis players can practice returning serves. It's just another means to train.

I do think the BWGen can accelerate learning, both as a technique for quieting the mind as well as an effective means to practice the mind-awake/body-asleep state. I created the MAP presets to direct mind and body toward sleep. Listeners then get practice keeping their mind awake and clear without "clicking out". And it is mastering that state that advances learning for OBE.

I also have experienced the BWGen presets actually stimulating the energy body spontaneously. I've felt mild tingling, localized buzzing, a sense of swaying or spinning, and have even felt my energy body moving past the limits of my physical body. I have no doubt it can help one achieve an OBE.

Is the BWGen a crutch for learning meditation and OBE prep-work? No. Think of it more a training wheels. Eventually, you get more proficient at recognizing the trance state and thus the time you takes to get there on your own is reduced. You don't need the BWGen now, but it allowed you to be able to get there on your own faster.

Brian

[enoch]

I found bwg to be a mass irritation. I prefer a pair of earplugs and some nice viz. each to their own, I suppose. bwg was good for clairaudience, but that kinda diverts from the intention too. :?

[Scorpyn]

Interesting...

I found the parts of the lucid dreaming presets a bit creepy (it sounded a bit like ppl were talking but at the same time not) but other than that they seem pretty good. Sometimes they "tickle my brain" as I described it in my log.

[enoch]

lol..I know that feeling. "Tickle my brain." :lol:

[Tom]

http://www.olegabrielsen.com/software/

This program has a free version with 7 qualities of energy that it adds. The full version of the program has 52 to choose from. They work a lot like presets in a binaural program. I like it a lot and have been modifying all my MP3 files to burn to CD to listen to at work. I've bought the full version of the program, which means that I can modify MP3 and wav files for people and then give back the modified version. It comes with a commercial license for distributing modified files, if not distributing the whole program itself. Even if you find plain binaurals irritating, you might be able to benefit from using this because you start with your own files for background. I can't say enough good things about this program, especially considering that if I hadn't experienced it for myself I would not have believed it possible.

[enoch]

Thanks Tom, I'll check it out.