Thread about "demons" from another forum

[Genesis]

Hey everyone. I would just like you to share your opinions about what this guy is talking about on another forum. He's often making threads about demons, some about chakra alignment and so on but I'm not sure if he's just "trolling" or if he actually believes or is honest in what he says. I personally don't believe much of what he says, but I'm not as much of a connoisseur than many here and would like to know your opinions.

Here's the link to his thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=142191661

I warn you though, there's lots of "immature" people on that board so take some of their replies lightly.

[CFTraveler]

It is obvious to me that the OP "Thread Bomber" believes in which he says. I started reading his 'exegesis' until I got to the following part:
" Modern Freemasonry,
which was originally a Gentile order, has been infiltrated and taken over by Jews. " And at that point stopped reading. Antisemitism, like any other form of prejudice, creates it's own self-supporting mythology, i.e. an excuse to hate, therefore, I'm not interested in anything this person has to say, which is just too bad.

Also, as the administrator of this forum, I want to give a gentle warning- Any expositions on the evils of this or that race/religion or sexual orientation will be taken as a violation of the 'respect' rule, and will be dealt with accordingly.

[wstein]

Its a bunch of gathered bits and pieces with no original material, personal experience, or purpose unless you are interested in historical mythology.

I can not evaluate if the author believe it, as he has not said anything.

[defectron]

Why is he calling them extraterrestrial? The creatures that people call demons are just astral beings associated with certain types of energy. Now some bad things are associated with these energies as well which is why alot of these guys are malevolent. But that doesn't nessecerly make them evil and some of them can even be quite helpful as I have found out recently. Another thing he got wrong is that humans can't become as powerful as "demons" the thing is humans have the potential to become just as strong as the strongest of the beings described as demons, angels, aliens, etc. And why the hell is he posting this stuff on a body building forum?

[CFTraveler]

Why is he calling them extraterrestrial?
Because it's his shtick.

[Genesis]

Why is he calling them extraterrestrial? The creatures that people call demons are just astral beings associated with certain types of energy. Now some bad things are associated with these energies as well which is why alot of these guys are malevolent. But that doesn't nessecerly make them evil and some of them can even be quite helpful as I have found out recently. Another thing he got wrong is that humans can't become as powerful as "demons" the thing is humans have the potential to become just as strong as the strongest of the beings described as demons, angels, aliens, etc. And why the hell is he posting this stuff on a body building forum?

I'm not sure how true some of the stuff he's saying is, and if it's dangerous to do what he suggest to. I posted this here because I know there's lots of knowledgeable people and I wasn't sure if he was just "trolling" or if he was serious. Thought it was an interesting subject as well.

[defectron]

I'm not sure how true some of the stuff he's saying is, and if it's dangerous to do what he suggest to. I posted this here because I know there's lots of knowledgeable people and I wasn't sure if he was just "trolling" or if he was serious. Thought it was an interesting subject as well.

Well he did get some things right, there are ways to call demons down from the astral to either teach you something or do some sort of favor to you. Though you are right that this can be very dangerous, however I also think if you know what your doing it can be very rewarding too. These are ancient beings and they can teach you alot of things. Even in my somewhat vague interations with King Kandazi I can't help but be amazed at how intelligent he is, the lessons that show this are ones designed to correct several mental flaws where he mapped out exactly how I would react to a stimulus who knows how many steps ahead of me. I would like to learn how these beings do what they do, but someday I can only hope that I could become even half as smart as that in addition. It was pretty funny, because when I realized what he did I was like "wow you really are a wise teacher." then I sort of heard a voice in the back of my head say "flattery will get you nowhere."

Of course you can also choose to work with beings people call angels, gods or planitery intelligences and other beings if you think demons might be too much for you to handle, but make no mistake even with something like angels there can be risks from what I have heard. I'm only just learning how to do this right now, King Kandazi was summoned by someone else who is helping me to learn things, not by me. His time with me will be up sometime in the coming week, so here's hoping I can learn more from him before the end.

I'm sure you might be wondering why these beings might indulge our whims, based on what I read in Carlos Canstenadas book "the fire within" as well as some of my own suspicions, I think that in exchange for whatever is asked they take some of the energy of the person that they are in contact with.

[Genesis]

Is King Kandazi a known figure? I never heard of that name before. I did a quick Google search but didn't find anything.

About your last paragraph, isn't it a bit odd that they would take some of your energy without you knowing or asking for your permission? Is it really wise to trust a being that would do that?

[defectron]

There's a reason why he isn't known. The guy I am working with discovered a hidden astral kingdom of which he is one of the rulers. No other humans in this timeline are known to have made contact with them prior to this.

I may have also stumbled onto a new entity of some sort named Gazuba, but so far I have received very little info about him, I'll keep updating as I find things out.

EDIT: i think there's one other thing I should make clear about these guys before the end. These aren't like regular disincarnated spirits that don't know what they are doing. They can direct the course of reality with their will to do alot of amazing things. So they shouldnt be underestimated.

[Korpo]

I don't know what you've heard about angels, but from my experience they will either work with you or not. No harm there.

Astral clairvoyancy and the senses of the astral body are very limited in accuracy and can be fooled. When dealing with astral beings it's usually best to err on the side of the caution for that reason.

[defectron]

I don't know what you've heard about angels, but from my experience they will either work with you or not. No harm there.


Well there is this story http://www.evocationmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3448 , I have heard from other sources as well that Enochian angels at least can be dangerous.

There's also indirect danger, though this applies to working with any sort of entity, in that if you want it to do a task for you, if you don't make certain specifications it might fullfill the task in way that isn't how you wanted. From what I have heard entities will usually just pick the easiest way in fullfilling a task unless other wise specified and the easiest way is not always nessecerily the right way.

So overall what I'm saying is while there's alot of good rewards with this sort of thing you always need to use caution. If anyone is interested in trying to summon something I would recommend the books "summoning spirits" and "evoking eternity" as those both do a pretty good job explaining things.

[ButterflyWoman]

Just a completely random set of thoughts. Take entirely for what it's worth (which may be very little, indeed ;)).

Quite honestly, I don't think the purpose of angels is to answer the call and do the bidding of random humans who might summon them. Angels are pretty terrifying (note that in the Bible, the first thing angels always say to people is, "Don't be afraid!" ;)), and in my limited experience, they're quite businesslike and not very talkative (unless they're on a mission to talk to you, I suppose, but I've never experienced that). Generally, I tend to leave angels alone, unless they come to me on their own (and they have, on occasion), in which case, it's pretty much impossible to ignore them. Very, very compelling presence, to say the least.

But, the bottom line is, you can manifest, create, do anything you want to do, with or without the assistance of angels or demons or ghosts or anything else along those lines. My personal drive is to cut to the chase and bring it about for myself, and let the angels and demons and whomever else is out there get about their own business while I tend to mine. ;)

[defectron]

But, the bottom line is, you can manifest, create, do anything you want to do, with or without the assistance of angels or demons or ghosts or anything else along those lines. My personal drive is to cut to the chase and bring it about for myself, and let the angels and demons and whomever else is out there get about their own business while I tend to mine. ;)

Very true, this is what I meant that humans have the potential to be just as powerful as any of those guys. But my primary motivation in calling them is to learn how to do these things. Getting instructions from someone who knows can save alot of time.

[ButterflyWoman]

Getting instructions from someone who knows can save alot of time.
True. Assuming you can get them to tell you what you want to know. Genii, demons, elementals, and the like, are notorious for lying to you or otherwise appearing to cooperate when they aren't. Angels are more trustworthy, certainly, but my experience of them is that it can be difficult to get them to tell you what you want to know, just because they're pretty much only interested in their own tasks, and yours are of little or not consequence to them.

But, generally, I've found that through trial and error, I can figure out pretty much anything I need to know, anyway. It isn't always instantaneous, and it's not always easy, but I've found it to be true that if I seek, I find. :)

[poème]

Well there is this story http://www.evocationmagic.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3448 , I have heard from other sources as well that Enochian angels at least can be dangerous.
I would read such stories with discernment as malevolent beings may lie about who they are and may for instance pretend to be angels. Robert Monroe even encountered a being who pretended to be God… So I wouldn’t rely solely on a name or a title given, nor on appearance, to tell if a being is benevolent and really who he says he is.


I don't know what you've heard about angels, but from my experience they will either work with you or not. No harm there.
I agree, benevolent beings will gladly teach you or support you without any harm. They will do so freely…and for free!


Angels are pretty terrifying (note that in the Bible, the first thing angels always say to people is, "Don't be afraid!" )
I thought this one was so funny! :lol:

I think they can choose to tone down their appearance and presence if needed, precisely not to cause fear or to impress too much. They may for instance appear not too tall, simply dressed, with no bright-and-powerful-looking shining light! ;) They also do not always give their names, quite possibly for the same reasons. I’m likely to believe that more persons than we think actually met and meet angels and archangels in the dreamstate or in projections without recognizing them consciously. I do say consciously, here, as a part of us know who they are and intuitively recognize them, but the conscious mind may come in the way and discard the info as soon as it comes in if it thinks it is impossible…


But, the bottom line is, you can manifest, create, do anything you want to do, with or without the assistance of angels or demons or ghosts or anything else along those lines.
I agree. It’s simply a choice, and I wouldn’t say that one is necessarily better than the other.

That said, for those who choose to work with other beings, in order to stay on the safe side, I think it’s a good idea to carefully examine our motives before asking a being to work with us, as the nature of our motives is likely to attract beings alike, even if we think we call an angel. It is also best not to impose our will on another being, as all have free will. Benevolent beings are not likely to respond to a command, in my opinion...


(…) they're pretty much only interested in their own tasks, and yours are of little or not consequence to them.
I do wonder about that from time to time, as I tend to think something like ``Who would I be to call an angel for my small matters? Surely, they have lots of other things to do.`` But it seems like our small matters…actually matter, more than we think they do. And it seems like they do respond, and to many and many, not just a few. They can be with you, with me and with several others all at once. Many people wouldn’t be shy to ask God (or Yahweh, Allah, The Divine, the Source, the Universe etc.) for support, and yet, unless I misunderstand, angels are different faces of the Divine, more focused aspects of God (as we are too), hence the meaning of the names of the archangels and the angels of the Kaballah for instance...

To be very honest however, I am still shy to ask, and mostly work my guides and higher selves… But it seems like I shouldn’t be shy… For instance, I have prayed St. Michael before, and he did answer. If I shouldn’t be shy, then others shouldn’t be either :)

[Korpo]

I agree a lot with what you wrote, poeme, very nicely put. I think it would work best if one asked an angel for something that is truly needed. I think this would yield the best response.

[ButterflyWoman]

I've never asked an angel for anything, unless the presence was already there. I mean, I've never tried to summon one or anything (I just figure they've got stuff to be doing, and it occurs to me that other entities may well appear as "an angel of light" to echo the words of St Paul).

When they have been present of their own accord, they've always been extremely businesslike, clearly had something to do and places to be, and they not at all open to chatting with me about the answers to life, the universe, and everything. Perhaps it's different for other people, but that's my own experience of them, so I generally leave them be to go about their business.

If they want to come and deal with me, that's fine, but I generally prefer to rely on my own resources (and if an angel has something to say about it, well, they're welcome to do so ;)).

As for other beings (elementals, genii, ghosts and assorted spirits, etc.), I pretty much leave them alone, too. I just can't see any reason to muck around with them, particularly when they can reportedly be extremely dangerous. I'll just do it myself and save myself the hassle and the potential trouble. ;)

Just my experience/opinion. Take for what it's worth, including, possibly, "nothing at all". :)

[defectron]

True. Assuming you can get them to tell you what you want to know. Genii, demons, elementals, and the like, are notorious for lying to you or otherwise appearing to cooperate when they aren't. Angels are more trustworthy, certainly, but my experience of them is that it can be difficult to get them to tell you what you want to know, just because they're pretty much only interested in their own tasks, and yours are of little or not consequence to them.


It is true entities will sometimes lie, but I don't think you can place the fault entirely on the entity here. Based on what I have heard, you tend to get better results when the entity is approached in a certain sort of way and alot of people just don't do this. For example say some dude calls up a demon and demands that it tell him something in the name of god or he'll zap it with his blasting rod. Now imagine some guy just comes up to you on the street demanding something from you or he'll zap you with a taser. It's the same deal, except even more so here because some nobody who thinks he's better then this ancient entity is trying to order them around with no respect. Of course it'll do everything it can to turn on you if you do that, which alot of people will do. But based on what I have heard from people who have had alot of experience in this you'll get alot better results if you treat the entity with respect. I personally found this to be the case too as I took their advice in interacting with King Kandazi and so far have gotten good results.

Though that being said, there do exist some truly malevolent entities you don't want to work with no matter what. My advice is before you try to embark in any interactions with en entity is to ask your spirit guide if doing so is a good idea. If they say yes, then you should be in the clear.




I would read such stories with discernment as malevolent beings may lie about who they are and may for instance pretend to be angels. Robert Monroe even encountered a being who pretended to be God… So I wouldn’t rely solely on a name or a title given, nor on appearance, to tell if a being is benevolent and really who he says he is.


True, it may not have been an angel, but my point still stands. My point being regardless of what you are trying to call, you should be careful, because even if you guys are right in that there's no danger whatsoever in dealing with angels, there's still the possibility the wrong person could get your message.

[ButterflyWoman]

My point being regardless of what you are trying to call, you should be careful, because even if you guys are right in that there's no danger whatsoever in dealing with angels, there's still the possibility the wrong person could get your message.
I agree with that, except, I'm not necessarily convinced that there is no danger involved with dealing with angels. They're pretty powerful, and can be downright terrifying. Are they harmful? Well, they can be, according to most angel lore. Michael carries a great big sword, according to all the traditions. I don't think he'd be likely to cut you in two with it or anything, but an ultra-powerful being with a sword is not something to take lightly, IMHO. Caution is always well-advised.

[Genesis]

Pardon my ignorance, but do any of you know the "role" of an Angel? ButterflyWoman has mentioned that she often got the impression that Angels were busy so she didn't bother them. But what were they so busy doing?

[Korpo]

There's a few paragraphs in this AC (http://www.kurtleland.com/astral-projection-log/2010/201-meta-astral-and-meta-mental-bodies) by Kurt about how the deva (a more general term for angel Kurt uses) and the human evolution relate to each other. It would however need more explaining to be fully understandable. He will probably elaborate on this in a future book.

In "Music and the Soul" Kurt also talks about how devas can become inspirations for works of art. It can be bought again here (http://musicandthesoul.com/). Find more about the devas and music creation here (http://musicandthesoul.com/transcendent-music/deva-music/192-devic-and-buddhic-music-introduction).

[poème]

In "Music and the Soul" Kurt also talks about how devas can become inspirations for works of art. It can be bought again here (http://musicandthesoul.com/). Find more about the devas and music creation here (http://musicandthesoul.com/transcendent-music/deva-music/192-devic-and-buddhic-music-introduction).
That's good news... It seemed impossible to get a copy at a decent price over here when I looked before.


I think it would work best if one asked an angel for something that is truly needed. I think this would yield the best response.
Very well said, and thanks :)


True, it may not have been an angel, but my point still stands. My point being regardless of what you are trying to call, you should be careful, because even if you guys are right in that there's no danger whatsoever in dealing with angels, there's still the possibility the wrong person could get your message.
Your point does stand, yes.


I agree with that, except, I'm not necessarily convinced that there is no danger involved with dealing with angels. They're pretty powerful, and can be downright terrifying. Are they harmful? Well, they can be, according to most angel lore. Michael carries a great big sword, according to all the traditions. I don't think he'd be likely to cut you in two with it or anything, but an ultra-powerful being with a sword is not something to take lightly, IMHO. Caution is always well-advised.
Some stories make them appear pretty terrifying indeed, but they are precisely…stories ;)
…Which doesn’t mean that there is no truth at all in these stories, whether literally or symbolically, but in my opinion, it would be a real challenge now to discern for sure true elements from pure invention and from what has been distorted, intently or not, over time. And so, in my opinion, unless the nature of one’s personal experience reveals itself to be worrysome indeed, there is no solid ground for fear, although I agree that caution (opening up little by little) is advisable, as it would be advisable with any very well-known or newly met person in the physical.

That said, when it comes to St.Michael, although my experience is not that extensive, I have only experienced positive things whenever I prayed him, and found nothing to be worried about… I’d even say that he can answer with a touch of humor, in a lighthearted way :)

[ButterflyWoman]

Some stories make them appear pretty terrifying indeed, but they are precisely…stories
Isn't it wise to be prepared with a full arsenal of information before you go summoning random entities to try to get them to do your bidding? Just seems like common sense to me. More to the point, summoning random entities is dangerous business in and of itself, but I'm sure there are those who will disagree with me. I know for sure there are some new age writers out there who have painted pictures of angels as fluffy, cute, adorable happy-to-help-anyone-who-calls entities, and maybe beings like that do exist, but they definitely don't match up with ancient lore.

Maybe it's ALL made up nonsense, though. That's entirely possible. Likely, even, and not just "angels", but EVERYTHING. But that's another discussion, and hardly anyone ever knows what I'm talking about with that, so I won't go there. ;)


That said, when it comes to St.Michael, although my experience is not that extensive, I have only experienced positive things whenever I prayed him, and found nothing to be worried about… I’d even say that he can answer with a touch of humor, in a lighthearted way :)
My experiences of Michael are also positive, but quite overwhelming. He's not an entity/archetype to be taken lightly. There's a reason the word "awe" is typically associated with angels. ;)

I'm going to bow out of this thread now.

[Korpo]

Certain higher beings, be they angels or human, can inspire awe, deep reverence or even fear, not by intention, but by simple impression. It is our reaction when we make contact with them.

Kurt likes to describe his encounter with an angel by quoting German poet Rilke:



Who then, if I cried out, would hear me among the angelic orders? And tranquil himself, should one suddenly take me into his heart, I'd die of that greater existence. For beauty is nothing but that terror's beginning, as much as we can stand, and it amazes us so, because it coolly disdains to destroy us. Every Angel is terrifying.

My angels seem to be immensely powerful and wise. They don't intend to be terrifying. But their level of spiritual development can feel like such an intense pressure to change oneself that it might seem to be destructive, to one's ego at least.(from: "The Unanswered Question" by Kurt Leland)


“The best way to eradicate false personality is to expose you to a higher level of bliss--the divine love of the Source--than you feel comfortable with. False personality squirms under this exposure so that you can identify and deal with it. The trick, however, is not to overwhelm you with this love, since it can terrify you.

“Remember Rilke’s angel, whose embrace is the beginning of terror, but also indescribably beautiful, “because it serenely disdains to annihilate.” The procedure we have in mind will place you in exactly the position described by Rilke--a little more divine love than you can comfortably bear, almost annihilating, but only to the false aspects of your personality.

”If you think of the divine love of the Source as light, then the procedure is designed to eliminate the dark and shadowy areas from your being--those resistant to the light. It only feels like annihilation to people who completely identify with those shadowy areas.”(from: http://www.kurtleland.com/astral-projection-log/2006/108-hospital-for-diseased-beliefs-lower-mental-plane-causal-body)

[Korpo]

My own translation would be like this, leaning on Kurt's:


Who, if I cried out, would hear me of the Orders of Angels? And if it just would happen one took me to its heart: I'd wither because of its stronger Being. Beauty is nothing then but a beginning of something terrifying we can barely stand, and we admire it for it coolly disdains to destroy us. Every angel is terrifying.

[Genesis]

Certain higher beings, be they angels or human, can inspire awe, deep reverence or even fear, not by intention, but by simple impression. It is our reaction when we make contact with them.

Have you ever met a human or know a spiritual person who's presence inspires awe? Also, how do you think one reaches such a state? Through years or energy work, meditation etc. ?

[Korpo]

Hello, Genesis.

I would say that with incarnated humans our experience is not as immediate. We never perceive all of a human as we do in nonphysical reality. There we are directly in touch with the energy of a being or entity and this can be very overwhelming. This is what Kurt refers to in his experience.

From my own experience I can relate some things - becoming aware of a greater portion of your own soul can be very frightening. Hard to describe, but the immensity felt overwhelming, I felt off-balance and scared. It was too much. I needed to process it to let go of that fear. I needed the rest of the day to settle, which was good.

Another encounter of a similar kind years ago unsettled me without me even knowing why. I had tapped into a state of consciousness which seemed to be very desirable, a higher perspective of detachment and direct observation, not by virtue of my own deeds but by sheer grace. Even though this was not in any way even remotely bad, it unsettled me deeply, things shifted inside me (figuratively), and I needed a lot of processing - probably more than a week - to digest this experience enough to feel settled in myself again.

These two were just encounters with my own soul and a higher state of consciousness. Essentially all of this is part of my potential, so there is a basis how I can relate to that. And still it was very overwhelming, simply too much, in a way I cannot relate. Both required shifts in my identity and the beliefs I identify with, and this is what Kurt describes - a need to realign yourself. A very powerful invitation to change that can feel very threatening to the ego.

On another occasion I was very frightened when having a root canal treatment. It was all going well, but it was my first and I also I am afraid of dental treatments, so I called out in my mind for help that it all would go well. I was sitting there on the chair, the dentist and assistant poking around in my mouth when I felt a presence enter. The presence felt so good and I felt so immensely grateful that it had come, I thought in mind "Thank you, Jesus!" and only then realised that this was how it had felt. I am not a Christian, but this was the only feeling I could identify this presence with, so maybe it was an angel. Maybe a more human entity. But it had felt so good to be in its presence, I was awash in gratitude. Not overwhelming on this occasion, but very good.

According to Kurt entities have tried to shield him from this effect when they visited him. He would see someone in dark robes stand at the foot of his bed, which would at first seem frightening. It turned out, however, in the course of the adventure, that what he saw as dark robes was a shielding, preventing Kurt from getting freaked out by the sheer presence of that being. It was as if an immense light was hidden behind that robes.

Kurt saw another version of that shielding in his afterlife tour described in Otherwhere, this time to do with "Emissaries" - beings from other reality systems. He saw them roughly in humanoid shapes in thick layers of clothes, but it seemed like strange things would hide and dwell below that, not humans. This was his awareness of how a being can adapt to our reality system for a visit, similar to a shield, but be fundamental different below. Maybe that differentness would have been scary, else. We tend to fear the unknown and the alien, and this very same fear can be triggered by higher consciousness, which is alien to our earthly ego.

I have also been present when Kurt channeled Charles once. It was a strange and wonderful experience. It was as if a change had come to the room, as if there were colors I couldn't quite see and a feeling of being comfortable in the presence. I had been nervous when I met Kurt for the first time in person, but it was gone when I "met" Charles. After Charles "left" even my nervousness returned.

These are all experiences along this continuum where the beauty of higher consciousness and the fascination with the mystery can either be deeply touching or become slightly too much or even more than that. We often only see the tip of the iceberg, but when we see more of the thing, that's where the awe starts. It's this experience of being dwarfed in comparison.

How to get there? Spiritual growth. But what really leads to spiritual growth - a million answers depending on who you ask. :)

Oliver

[Genesis]

Thanks for your reply, Korpo. Interesting stuff. :)

[embrace]

All demons come from within...other than that, I don't believe in any :)