kava

[baalixan]

i'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but i don't know where else to put it. i recently heard about a remedy consumed in preperation for meditation and spiritual practices on the pacific islands called kava. its supposed to promote relaxation and mental clarity aswell as helping to relieve stress and anxiety. I did quite a bit of research on it, and it sounds like it could be useful with out being a psychedelic used in spiritual practices....so i'm wondering, does anyone have any experience with it? if so, did it help in achieving a deep meditation, trance state or any form of projection/obe?

[CFTraveler]

I've heard good and bad things about it (not in regard of projection or LD, it's used as a sedative or relaxant tea) but because if not prepared correctly, it seems to affect the liver, and not in a good way. It was controversial for a minute or two, that I can remember.

[baalixan]

yeah, i read about the liver thing. its supposed to be made with just the roots, as the rest of the plant has some toxins. aside from that most of what i read about it was positive. couple people claimed to have some intense and clear projections, and dreamstates were mixed, being either non existed or extremely vivid. if it doesn't make one too sleepy, the relaxing part would be good in terms of meditation. i know its often used in situations that people would normally drink alchohol aswell, but with out the side effects of intoxication and amnesia. i'm thinking it might be worth a try, if not for meditation, atleast as a natural sleep aid, and relaxant.

[SoulSail]

I recommend L-Theanine and GABA. Both are very safe and far better at bringing about the sort of relaxation you want with meditation.

Of course, nothing beats progressive relaxation the old fashioned way.

Soul

[Beekeeper]

I had a chance to try it in Fiji but it looked a bit muddy and I don't think it tasted good either. I hadn't heard it was particularly efficacious in producing trance but that doesn't mean it isn't.

[Korpo]

I wonder if this can be said generally, but here it goes:

Usually, when the body is stimulated by adding a substance, the effect will be pronounced, but there are cases where the body will reduce the production of the respective naturally occurring substances in the body itself. Many drugs cause addiction this way - the high is an extreme stimulation of the reward mechanism, and the natural reward mechanism atrophies so that you need the drug to replace it more and more. I wonder if this is the case with other substances as well (but less visible as it is not as pronounced as stimulation and understimulation of the reward center).

This might happen with long-term use. Also one would have to wonder if the given supplement then is in the long run still efficient.

[SoulSail]

Good point, Korpo. And I think it can be said generally.

The body and brain work by adjusting billions of delicate levers to keep everything in equilibrium. Almost any substance that changes neurochemical activity introduces the risk of kicking off the brain's natural down regulation process, leading to tolerance at a minimum, and dependence at the far end of the spectrum. Even something as simple as Melatonin stops working within a short cycle for most, and it's considered one of the safer relaxation supplements out there.

Of course, there's a correlation to just how powerfully a given substance mimics a pleasure or relaxation response to how bad tolerance and dependence set it. Not sure how much Kava exerts, per se. I use Galantamine now and then for inducing WILDs, but anything more than once a week and it's useless.

More importantly, I strongly believe that placing too much importance on external substances to help with transcendental states is a losing game. I learned early on that my higher self couldn't be tricked, or at least didn't appreciate it. If I try to induce relaxation or trance states or anything beyond with supplements...it's a very, very dull night for me.

My two cents,

Soul