Manifest destiny

[cksantos]

Do not manifest for self.

Manifest technology for singularity.

Manifest the news.

Manifest for mankind.

[lycan]

All manifestation is for self.

The singularity? Manifestation implies it is accomplished.

[ButterflyWoman]

I am a member of mankind. I am an aspect of the Singularity. All there is is Self, even if there is the illusion of selves. And "destiny" is something some selves made up because they were afraid, and didn't want responsibility, so they created a mysterious, uncontrollable, unknowable force to control things for them. Except it's no more real than the selves are....

[cksantos]

Of course, its all about time reference though. manifestation can be for self of many different times. I prefer the self of the atemporal, which is as close to no self as one can get. What I meant was manifesting for parking stalls, people, etc. is temporal, i prefer to manifest in the atemporal strata for implementation in the temporal world. Like manifesting the opening the akashic book for all, traveling through time to send energy to yourselfs and being own guardian angel that helped you in the past, etc. I guess its not really about self, its about manifesting beyond time and thus space.

[lycan]

All manifestation happens, by definition, in time and space. To manifest is to experience.

[DatBillionaire]

Problem, according to my (layman addmitely, so I could be wrong) understanding of physics. Is that we get into the universe as an "defined" state, it is in the wavefunction state where all possibilities have yet to be defined and then defined.

If we could somehow revert the reality to its wavefunction state and then somehow be able to choose how the wavefunction would collapse, nothing would be impossible, and by nothing I mean nothing.

[CFTraveler]

I sometimes think that's what an AP is- access to that 'quantum foam' indeterminate state as a gateway to another possibility.

[DatBillionaire]

And indeed just like with the double slit experiment, all inter-posed possibilities seem to be viewable, so maybe we can "see" the different possibilities. Now the question is........ how to collapse them?

[baalixan]

collapsing them is simple really. believe it has already collapsed in a certain way. see it in you mind as current or past before it happens and will it into manifestation

[lycan]

Nevermind

[ButterflyWoman]

collapsing them is simple really. believe it has already collapsed in a certain way. see it in you mind as current or past before it happens and will it into manifestation
While I appreciate what you're saying, and I don't disagree, it's quite a lot easier said than done for most people.

For a lot of people, there is a considerable amount of groundwork necessary, including getting rid of limiting and blocking beliefs and other emotional baggage that directly conflicts with the manifestation of what they want. If you want to be thin, but you believe completely that you're fat and are meant to be that way, it's pretty hard to manifest thinness. Same with any desire. You want love, but believe you're unlovable, you want money but believe it's too hard to get or too hard to keep, and on and on and on. It's only when these underlying beliefs (which create resistance) are dissolved that things can manifest.

[baalixan]

simple does not mean easy. it takes effort no matter how much baggage you have, even if you have none. it takes patience. and to be 100% confident in something that has yet to come is not easy. doubt will hinder it, and delay the effects, but affirmations and overtime adding little bits of will towards the goal will bring it about.

there is a book, and documentary called "The Secret" which is all about this, and how some of the most famous people of science, politics, etc used the ideas to garner their success....i have used it for small things, like making a day at work go smoothly and basicly be a good day and it often works....positive thinking, you believe it if you do it enough...same thing with negative thinking

[ButterflyWoman]

there is a book, and documentary called "The Secret" which is all about this
Yes, I'm familiar with it, have been for years, and many, many other books and other material on the topic (including things going back to the turn of the 20th century; this is not a new idea).

I personally find "The Secret" to be quite shallow and quite overproduced (the woman who produced it was a tv producer, and she's known for her heavy-handedness). About the only thing that can be said for it is that it brought attention to possibilities that most people had never even thought about. Sorry to be harsh on the topic, I mean, if it works for you, that's fine, but for me (and others) it barely scratches the surface.

[baalixan]

i have to agree that it does seem shallow in a way...i think really, it is meant to bring to light that such things are possible, more than getting someone to be well versed in willful creation and direction. i've always thought mindfulness and positive thinking were about as far as you can go towards making your physical experience better in that sense. I've always been a 'just deal with what life throws at you the best you can' sort of guy, and it helped me realize that there is much much more to it than that. I have been trying to expand my uses the idea in many ways, aswell as incorporating it into my meditations to deepen the effect, and even improve the quality and depth of my meditation itself(preparing through out the day well before i get to my meditation)

you don't have to appologize for any harshness, you are simply being honest and straight forward. no harshness about it in my eyes haha.

[poème]

For a lot of people, there is a considerable amount of groundwork necessary, including getting rid of limiting and blocking beliefs and other emotional baggage that directly conflicts with the manifestation of what they want. If you want to be thin, but you believe completely that you're fat and are meant to be that way, it's pretty hard to manifest thinness. Same with any desire. You want love, but believe you're unlovable, you want money but believe it's too hard to get or too hard to keep, and on and on and on. It's only when these underlying beliefs (which create resistance) are dissolved that things can manifest.

I agree that strongly held blocking beliefs such as `I am meant to be fat and will always be` have to go first... But some limiting (not blocking) beliefs can be countered by visualising the change happening gradually. The mind is likely to block any manifestation attempts of what it judges unrealistic, so visualising oneself suddenly thin when the mind is sharply aware of not being thin may not work indeed. It will seem like a lie to it. But the mind is much more likely to accept the idea that such a change can occur over time. So manifesting a gradual change is more likely to work in this specific case. Someone who wants to lose weight can, for instance, visualises and feels himself or herself becoming thinner in a gradual fashion. The passing of time has to be lived and felt as if it is currently happening. Imagining (and living) specific moments may help in this. For instance, a woman imagines herself buying new clothes now that she is thinner and how content she feels as she looks at herself in the mirror. She lives the moment as if it was happening now. She can go on and on imagining all kinds of satisfying moments like this one occuring as she is becoming thinner and thinner.

The same would work for any desired outcome that is more likely to happen gradually according to the mind. However, although the mind can hardly accept affirmations such as `I am thin now`and is likely to discard them as lies, it is not exactly a lie… The thought comes first, the visible change comes only after. It is delayed because the physical matter is coarser, but at some level, if the thought is free of blockages, if it is sustained and nurtured, and if it doesn't conflict with other's needs and intentions (it's a consensual world after all), then the change is already occuring and preparing to manifest in the physical.

[lycan]

collapsing them is simple really. believe it has already collapsed in a certain way. see it in you mind as current or past before it happens and will it into manifestation

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StepThreeProfit

[baalixan]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StepThreeProfit

i'm not quite clear on what you mean in this link...it seems like you are agreeing with my statement, but i'm not sure if i am understanding correctly

[lycan]

i'm not quite clear on what you mean in this link...it seems like you are agreeing with my statement, but i'm not sure if i am understanding correctly

There are two meanings. The manifestation process seems to be the standard plan:

Step 1 - Believe it
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Profit!

That in itself is kind of funny.

However, there is this problem...

Step 1 - Decide to believe it
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Win!

Believing in something which your experience contradicts is not an easy task. How do you make the shift from not believing to believing?

[CFTraveler]

It depends on why you don't believe it. If you don't believe it because it's not possible (undoubtedly) then it's a moot point; but if you don't believe it based on programming based on things that are probably not true, then this can be worked on and set aside, and then it becomes possible, resonates with your inner sense of knowing, and it's a done deal.

[lycan]

It depends on why you don't believe it. If you don't believe it because it's not possible (undoubtedly) then it's a moot point; but if you don't believe it based on programming based on things that are probably not true,

And how do you tell the difference? How do you tell the difference between trying to believe something that is impossible (futile self-deception) and trying to believe something that is possible? Especially since a negative belief that is "probably not true" might be true after all?

The main reason, in fact the ONLY reason people have trouble "changing their beliefs" is that this seems, inherently, as a futile attempt at self-deception. The deeper and more persistantly reinforced by experience the belief the more futile it seems to attempt to change it.



then this can be worked on and set aside, and then it becomes possible, resonates with your inner sense of knowing, and it's a done deal.

How?

[CFTraveler]

And how do you tell the difference?
One example is an obvious one: If someone tells you gravity is a lie and you should jump off a building to see it- I don't know anyone who would simply suspend disbelief long enough to jump- consensus makes it very hard to 'know' it's not true, and even if you decided it might be possible you probably wouldn't do it.


The main reason, in fact the ONLY reason people have trouble "changing their beliefs" is that this seems, inherently, as a futile attempt at self-deception. Not so. There are many people that have beliefs that are easy to refute, and simple logical thinking can remove these beliefs- beliefs for example, that tell them that money or sex is inherently evil comes to mind, for example. Yet they go through their lives believing that they 'shouldn't' wish for more money, or feeling guilty about it. It doesn't take self-deception to change these beliefs, just a little investigation as to the thought behind these beliefs is enough to get the ball rolling, provided their indoctrination isn't so deep they're simply refuse to believe otherwise.

[lycan]

One example is an obvious one: If someone tells you gravity is a lie and you should jump off a building to see it- I don't know anyone who would simply suspend disbelief long enough to jump- consensus makes it very hard to 'know' it's not true, and even if you decided it might be possible you probably wouldn't do it.

Only because you still don't believe the falsity of gravity (your freedom from it) to be true. The cost of deluding yourself in this matter is too high so you don't have the motivation to test it. If you are wrong about gravity being real you lose the opportunity to fly. If you are wrong about gravity being false you die.



Not so. There are many people that have beliefs that are easy to refute, and simple logical thinking can remove these beliefs- beliefs for example, that tell them that money or sex is inherently evil comes to mind, for example. Yet they go through their lives believing that they 'shouldn't' wish for more money, or feeling guilty about it. It doesn't take self-deception to change these beliefs, just a little investigation as to the thought behind these beliefs is enough to get the ball rolling, provided their indoctrination isn't so deep they're simply refuse to believe otherwise.

That's a value judgement, not a belief. A belief is a concept or model of reality, a predictive pattern that sets up an expectation. Stating this as a belief would go more along the lines of "To get money I have to do things that makes others dislike and disapprove of me" or "If other people know I place high importance on money and sex, they will dislike and disapprove of me". These statements are, within certain contexts, true. Or maybe "inherently evil" is just a way of saying the person expects they inherently cause negative experiences.

[lycan]

collapsing them is simple really. believe it has already collapsed in a certain way. see it in you mind as current or past before it happens and will it into manifestation



In other words, change your model of reality into one that creates the expectation of experiencing what you are trying to manifest. But how can you possibly do this consciously? The experience I have had is that the very fact you know you are doing it invalidates your faith in the new model. The loophole is to simply navigate through your model, like for example, you believe to lose fat you must cut calories, so you cut calories to create the expectation of losing fat. But what if you doubt that your visualization can collapse into an actual life experience?

[baalixan]

In other words, change your model of reality into one that creates the expectation of experiencing what you are trying to manifest. But how can you possibly do this consciously? The experience I have had is that the very fact you know you are doing it invalidates your faith in the new model. The loophole is to simply navigate through your model, like for example, you believe to lose fat you must cut calories, so you cut calories to create the expectation of losing fat. But what if you doubt that your visualization can collapse into an actual life experience?

depends on how much doubt, but if you doubt it completely than your attempt is already doomed to failure. as with anything we believe, be it core values, reality, or anything else we believe to be true and sound, how did we come to believe these things? nothing more than reinforcement. i.e. "Sometimes money has caused bad experiences for me and my family so money is evil" its been reinforced often enough that to you it would be true, but its not a constant reinforcement so its much easier to defeat than say "I've jumped a million times, and every time i fell back to the ground so gravity is real" now that, that will be next to impossible, but not impossible to defeat becuase it has been constantly reinforced. as far as i know no one has gotten around it yet, and the only way to get around it and fly in my mind, isn't by believing gravity isn't real but rather, through telekinesis which to me is much more believeable than gravity not being real.

now, you might be thinking "well thats not exactly manifesting anything" and well, it isn't exactly. but as i understand it, manifesting is more about creating the opportunity for something to manifest that the actual manifesting itself. and the bigger the manifestation, the more thought has to be put into it, and the longer(usually) it will take to become reality. Manifest destiny, create your own opportunity, same thing basicly. the more time and thought put into something the more likely it is to be.

[DatBillionaire]

And how do you tell the difference? How do you tell the difference between trying to believe something that is impossible (futile self-deception) and trying to believe something that is possible? Especially since a negative belief that is "probably not true" might be true after all?


Nothing is impossible.

[CFTraveler]

Lycan, to avoid this thread continuing it's circular route, I'm going to ask you a question and I'd like for you to answer it honestly.
Did you come in to this subforum to ask for help or gather information, or to argue or disprove the validity of the concept of manifestation itself?

[lycan]

Lycan, to avoid this thread continuing it's circular route, I'm going to ask you a question and I'd like for you to answer it honestly.
Did you come in to this subforum to ask for help or gather information, or to argue or disprove the validity of the concept of manifestation itself?

I came to ask for help and gather information. The key problem I have (I think) is not being able to surrender to the idea of manifestation, being afraid that it will harm me in the exact same sense as your gravity example so I descend into "I have to do something... what can I do? I don't know what to do. I can't figure out how to move forward! I'm stuck! I'm wasting my life... I have to do something... I don't have the resources to follow through on this plan... I can't see a path that I can actually implement from where I am now...". This is because I have not been able to develop complete faith that "the process of manifestation" is "enough", that it is not just magical meaning people assign to coincidences. I want to prove it to myself, not disprove it.

[lycan]

Nothing is impossible.

I'm doing my best to implement Neville Goddard's advice. His recommendation is to induce a state of vision (in essence, lucid dreaming) in which you have an experience which implies your desire has been fulfilled. And then to persist doing this until it is manifested into your life. He claimed this to be his most effective technique. His books are much better written than recent LoA works. Power of Awareness and Out of This World are excellent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtRGkjxTmSs&context=C3a25051ADOEgsToPDskKaUTkarcgUXlFX-EHdtbuz

[baalixan]

I came to ask for help and gather information. The key problem I have (I think) is not being able to surrender to the idea of manifestation, being afraid that it will harm me in the exact same sense as your gravity example so I descend into "I have to do something... what can I do? I don't know what to do. I can't figure out how to move forward! I'm stuck! I'm wasting my life... I have to do something... I don't have the resources to follow through on this plan... I can't see a path that I can actually implement from where I am now...". This is because I have not been able to develop complete faith that "the process of manifestation" is "enough", that it is not just magical meaning people assign to coincidences. I want to prove it to myself, not disprove it.

Lycan, something manifestation that so far has been consistently true for myself. Its not easy advice to follow, but its true none the less. Always take a positive tone in trying to manifest. A simple example: money. say you have up to your ears in debt, theres two ways to do it, and one will lead out of debt, and the other, likely further in. first one "I have money" has a positive tone, second one "i have no more debt" negative tone. both will bring about change, and you might have to take some action in one direction or another, but i find the more you manifest, the lest action is needed to get that ball rolling.

i used this idea, and proved it to myself this last year. for a good part of the year, i was struggling really hard, i was really depressed and had a "what else can go wrong" sort of mind set, and well, things got worse continually...I started to realize i was just miserable, so i started trying to be positive and took on a "its going to get better" mind set and things rapidly started changing as i really got into that frame of mind. It wasn't just in how i looked at my life that changed, but my situation as a whole has just been getting better and better, and with very little effort other then changing the way i thought. i'm not out of the woods yet, but in just the last 3 months my world has done a 180 and i've barely lifted a finger to make it happen.

[Giorgia]

Nothing is impossible.

I am all for stretching beliefs but i am not sure how can i change certain things just on belief . Let's say i want to rejuvenate of 10 / 15 years ,okay i can hit the gym ,eat healthy food or do some treatments but only on beliefs how would i rejuvenate ? Should i get myself into believing that it is possible to rejuvenate and then ? Would i see myself rejuvenate once convinced ? I am not sure .I probably have doubts that everything is possible just if you believe ..

[CFTraveler]

I am all for stretching beliefs but i am not sure how can i change certain things just on belief . Let's say i want to rejuvenate of 10 / 15 years ,okay i can hit the gym ,eat healthy food or do some treatments but only on beliefs how would i rejuvenate ? Should i get myself into believing that it is possible to rejuvenate and then ? Would i see myself rejuvenate once convinced ? I am not sure .I probably have doubts that everything is possible just if you believe .. Beliefs are always used to cause action, so chances are you could rejuvenate yourself, by doing all those actions.
In other words, someone who 'wants to look younger' is not the same as someone who believes that what they do will make them look or feel younger.

[Giorgia]

By reading material on intention manifestation i got the idea that if you just change your beliefs reality shifts to match them ,so i wonder to what extent this is possible even without any particular or seemingly logical type of action .

[CFTraveler]

By reading material on intention manifestation i got the idea that if you just change your beliefs reality shifts to match them ,so i wonder to what extent this is possible even without any particular or seemingly logical type of action . Hmm, even the Secret states that action is spurned by intention, so I don't know what that material would be. What people don't see is the connection between putting the emotion into the intention and seeing the result happen, like the author who wrote a book, made lots of money and when he found his old 'vision board' he realized the house pictured in it was the house he was currently living in.
He still had to write the book to get the money, but the connection between the picture of the house and the fact that ten years later he was living in it wasn't obvious at first glance. You could say that he had to write the book in the first place (and in this example, this would be correct) but all kinds of things could have happened differently and the results would have been different- but they weren't. In this case (and IMO) there was a causal connection between the vision board and the result, but it is not obvious at first glance.