Bending the "real" world exactly the same as a dream, is it possible?

[DatBillionaire]

Well I know some people are going to call me a buckethead for suggesting this, but do you think is possible not only manifest things with time, but actually be able to move the world with the same ease as you would in a fully lucid dream?

There are also some questions that would come with this, assuming this is possible what would happen to other people? Remember apparently people cant experience in their reality what they cant or arent prepared to accept, so lets say you get to this point and fly in the middle of the city, would you change to a frequency where people are prepared to see that and thus you would left behind the frequency of people that cant accept such a thing or what? Or would everyone still see you even if they are completely closed to that?

[ButterflyWoman]

Yes, I think it's possible. I've experienced it. It's a little freaky sometimes when it happens, but I'm a lot more used to it than I used to be.

The thing is, in order to do this, your perception of your reality has to be really fluid. The only way to achieve that (as far as I've seen) is to get rid of your attachments (i.e., your belief that things are the way they are; hard to succinctly explain what I mean by "attachment", but "belief" isn't too far off the mark).

Where there are no attachments (beliefs, expectations, assumptions, etc.), there is no resistance, and energy can flow, just like in a dream.

[DatBillionaire]

Yes, I think it's possible. I've experienced it. It's a little freaky sometimes when it happens, but I'm a lot more used to it than I used to be.

The thing is, in order to do this, your perception of your reality has to be really fluid. The only way to achieve that (as far as I've seen) is to get rid of your attachments (i.e., your belief that things are the way they are; hard to succinctly explain what I mean by "attachment", but "belief" isn't too far off the mark).

Where there are no attachments (beliefs, expectations, assumptions, etc.), there is no resistance, and energy can flow, just like in a dream.

How have you experienced it? Can you relate your experience please?

[ButterflyWoman]

How have you experienced it? Can you relate your experience please?
It's difficult to describe, because it's pretty subtle. Stuff like this (but these are only a few examples, this is by no means the limit):

Thinking about something and it appears in my reality within minutes or hours (sometimes via television, or radio, or someone brings it up in conversation, etc.).

Saying or just deciding that I'll do something when an opportunity presents itself, and within minutes or hours, the opportunity is there (so I do it).

Seeing some attachment or block in my thinking, deciding it needs to dissolve, and multiple opportunities manifest that play perfectly into the dissolution of the block.

Noticing that certain "negative" things appear in my reality as reflections of my beliefs, thoughts, expectations, attachments, etc., and once I address and release the thought, belief, expectation, attachment, whatever, the manifestation promptly vanishes from my reality.

It's actually all very subtle, as I said. I could give specific examples, but they don't make sense to most people, because one's own reality is subject to one's own interpretation, and to anyone else, it can be entirely unrelatable or sound like nonsense or just coincidence or whatever. It also takes some time to get into a mindset where you actually see the relationships between your own thoughts (beliefs, expectations, etc.) and the way your reality manifests.

I used to say that reality is reflective, but now it seems more to me that my reality is nothing more than an extension of my own consciousness (including subconsciousness).

[DatBillionaire]

Thanks a lot for your answer butterfly ^^.

[Giorgia]

I have been reading about the Huna philosophy and Steve Pavlina's blog about seeing reality as a dream and I wanted to start a trial myself but I find it hard to keep this perspective .

[CFTraveler]

Then you need to start at the beginning. What beliefs about the world keep you from thinking that the physical world is a materialization of an idea (infinite or near infinite possibilities) that you can influence?
It's an interesting experiment, you could approach it that way.

If you approach the world from an empirical standpoint (and there is nothing wrong with that, I do it all the time, to many people's chagrin) there is still a way to approach this perspective, because science is finding more and more that reality is the materialization of a very high number of possibilities (I won't say infinite, because that's unquantifiable) that seem to respond to thought and emotion.

[Giorgia]

Sure !
Probably i am too grounded in objective reality.I am aware of the role of our minds in shaping and filtering experiences so this dream model doesn't sound too crazy to me after all and i am fond of quantum physics , i read a bit about it .
The dream model is very appealing to me 'cause i think it would probably be easier to change things in your life with this frame of mind .Doing a trial could be interesting regardless of my view of reality .

[Giorgia]

Also i am not clear how i have to see other people within the dream analogy ! Are the people in my reality my creations ? Like if i have a problem with a neighbor ,or anybody else ,are these people personalities my projections on them ? This is one reason i can't go deep with this trial . Can someone help ? :)

[Korpo]

Hello, Giorgia.

It seems that dream characters are reflections of the qualities you find within yourself. In that they are not your creations, but created in response to what is within you.

Oliver

[Giorgia]

Thank you Oliver .

[Giorgia]

Hello, Giorgia.

It seems that dream characters are reflections of the qualities you find within yourself. In that they are not your creations, but created in response to what is within you.

Oliver

Also i remember reading a post by Pavlina at his forum along these lines '' Wait till you realize you can design, create, and even delete characters in your reality too. That's the part I'm currently playing with -- a place where even more fears and concerns arise about what it all means.''

Was intrigued but couldn't find more about this ,i get that one could consider his external reality ,like circumstances, people, or whatever to be a reflection of his own consciousness ,but in particular design ,create and delete characters looks very :shock: .
Would like to know more ..

[DatBillionaire]

How fascinating is that current scientific understanding is leaning to the notion that indeed at least on our level reality is relative. Even in time travel for example for you to time travel you would go to another timeline which would mean that again the travel to the past and change you make can only be applied to your reality, if someone else changed the past without going with you they would be going to another reality.

As Einstein said time is relative and said "reality is an ilussion albeit a very presistent one"

[Morphius]

My gut tells me that this is theoretically possible as atoms themselves are simply like standing waves of the "aether" itself...
And anybody versed in occult literature will be familiar with the widely held view that the physical world is a subset of the next broader energetic realm which is as we all know associated with mind.... so this all seems to suggest that such things are not impossible regardless of how rare this my be...

This scenario then in a nutshell is that: "mind is not a product of matter" but in fact (literally) that "matter is a product of mind" !!!!!!

Just having recently read this "http://www.scribd.com/doc/43530787/Jacques-Vallee-UFOs-The-Psychic-Solution-1977" (which is a must read I think) as well as David Wilcock's recent work " The Source Field Investigations" (again a must read) one would be forced to concede that such manifestation is not only possible but in fact takes place fairly regularly straight out of humanity's group mind.... but also may I add that the type of manifestation as per the first book I referenced there no doubt comes into play not only as a result of the creative power of the group mind of humanity as a whole but also as a result of this in combination with various energetic conditions (i.e the earth's energy vortices).

But moving on and getting to the point more directly, the fact that direct manifestation does apparently happen naturally it would also follow that it could be induced physically and such occurrences are fairly commonly associated with the lives of great saints...

Although I personally have a suspicion that such manifestations although absolutely real may in fact only be temporary by virtue of the fact that the supporting framework for such objects does not exist in the higher dimensions (other than the magician's astral construct) which when this entrophies may cause the physical object to evaporate.

But anyway my point is that although I think this is possible, the beings that can do this obviously have mastered the material plane.... as evidenced by the fact that their very thoughts are strong and focused enough to bend our reality into submission.

So yes... it can be done (I would say) by by the time you can do it you will probably have little need to stay in "nursery school" when you are scholastically more at the year 5 or 6 level.

[DatBillionaire]

However there is a problem I have with the "dream approach" you see I understand things like manifesting money, relationships, events, etc. is ok and possible.

But if we really take this as a dream then on that logic I would be able to fly like Superman or summon the Death Star which is completely impossible.

[ButterflyWoman]

Then find another model if you don't like that one. Seriously, it's YOUR reality, shape it however you want, using whatever symbols you want, in whatever model you want. If you don't like the "dream" model, use the "game" model, or the "story" model, or make one up for yourself.

[DatBillionaire]

Then find another model if you don't like that one. Seriously, it's YOUR reality, shape it however you want, using whatever symbols you want, in whatever model you want. If you don't like the "dream" model, use the "game" model, or the "story" model, or make one up for yourself.

The point is I really like the dream approach, but I find a "barrier" where my mind says "Ok, this is too much".

[ButterflyWoman]

And my suggestion, in response to your point, which I did get because I've been there and done that, was to "Find or create a new model that doesn't have that barrier."

Or, here's another metaphor.

If you're walking down a particular path and you keep hitting the same stone wall, you can either try to dismantle the wall (hey, it's possible) or you can look around for a new path or you can forge one of your own. All options have benefits and drawbacks, but sometimes, just changing your direction will have a tremendous effect.

Better?

[DatBillionaire]

And my suggestion, in response to your point, which I did get because I've been there and done that, was to "Find or create a new model that doesn't have that barrier."

Or, here's another metaphor.

If you're walking down a particular path and you keep hitting the same stone wall, you can either try to dismantle the wall (hey, it's possible) or you can look around for a new path or you can forge one of your own. All options have benefits and drawbacks, but sometimes, just changing your direction will have a tremendous effect.

Better?

Will try to see how it works.

[Giorgia]

But if we really take this as a dream then on that logic I would be able to fly like Superman or summon the Death Star which is completely impossible.Bringing back the dead also , i've been told yesterday that a friend died ,i would like to have him back .

[ButterflyWoman]

I have heard of people who manipulated reality enough to cause someone's death (which was apparent) to "not happen after all", but I have never heard of anyone adept enough to raise the dead, other than Jesus and a couple of his apostles (Paul and Peter did, according to the book of Acts, if I'm recalling correctly). Possibly some other great spiritual teachers/adepts were also able to do it, but I'm unfamiliar with the literature if there are such cases (I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Indian mystics who were advanced enough to do this, for example).

In other words, I do think it's possible, but it requires a level of awakening that few ever achieve.

This thread has made me think about different models of reality. Perhaps if I get the time I might write up some different possibilities.

Giorgia, I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

[Giorgia]

Thank you ButterflyWoman.
That's the same thing that another friend of mine told me about this,she's pretty advanced with these things too in my opinion ,and she told me that probably only few people can bring the dead back ,like maybe (i think) the Dalai Lama or enlightened ones ... ,anyway my friend underwent an operation and went into a coma and then passed away ,so i have beeen told,i doubt i have what it takes to bring him back.

[Giorgia]

I mean i wouldn't know where to start from ,i could convince myself that the person who told me so is misinformed and that my friend is still in the coma and that he will wake up and i'll see him again but i don't know ...One thing i haven't clear about subjective reality is that,even though i have it clear that your reality is a reflection of your beliefs ,does each one of us live in his own sort of fantasy bubble where everything is possible ?

[ButterflyWoman]

I mean i wouldn't know where to start from ,i could convince myself that the person who told me so is misinformed and that my friend is still in the coma and that he will wake up and i'll see him again
As I understand it (and I make no claim of having ever done this or having any ability to do it), basically, yes. It's probably a bit deeper than that, but, yes. Unfortunately, once you fully believe something (anything), that pretty much makes it "real" to you, and changing that which you sincerely believe to be real and true is next to impossible.

It's a bit like quantum physics. On the quantum level, stuff is very weird and very fluid and extremely changeable. Simple observation can change the outcome. Once the outcome is decided, that is, once it comes out of probability and into actuality, that's pretty much it from then on, it doesn't change back (I'm simplifying greatly, and I'm not a physicist, but this is my understanding).

As far as I can tell and have experienced, every possibility is still a possibility... until it isn't.


One thing i haven't clear about subjective reality is that,even though i have it clear that your reality is a reflection of your beliefs ,does each one of us live in his own sort of fantasy bubble where everything is possible ?
Each of us lives in a unique reality (which may bear a lot of similarities to other realities, or not) in which everything is possible IF our beliefs allow it. Beliefs are the key to everything, and some beliefs are so deeply ingrained (from infancy, or even the womb) that relaxing them is nearly impossible. I doubt very much that I could stop believing, for example, that when I drop a spoon, it's going to hit the floor. I'm sure that some very awake and highly advanced people can make a spoon levitate, because they simply know it doesn't have to fall, but I've never met anyone like that, and my spoons hit the floor. Maybe it's just that we need to move closer to the truth, which is that there is no spoon.

[dreaming90]

This reality frame is a dream, yes. But it is a GROUP dream. It takes a very high level of consciousness to manipulate reality to a large extent because there are billions of other people who are dreaming the very same dream that you want to manipulate.

Can you make the Death Star appear in the sky? Theoretically, yes. But practically speaking, you are surrounded by lots of other people who believe that manifesting a Death Star is impossible. Let's use the analogy of a big canoe with 50 rowers. If one person decides hey, I'd really like to row the other way, he has to deal with 49 others who are rowing a different direction.

This is why law of attraction can be very subtle. If you attract one thousand dollars, money isn't going to literally fall from the sky. That would violate the group dream. It would probably come from an unexpected work bonus or something more "normal."

Of course, different cultures are having different little group dreams. Something that's possible in East Africa, such as placing a curse on someone, is generally less successful in a culture where it is believed that such a thing is not possible.

Raising someone from the dead would entail shifting a large group of people to an entirely separate history thread, which needless to say would be extremely difficult.

[Giorgia]

Then find another model if you don't like that one. Seriously, it's YOUR reality, shape it however you want, using whatever symbols you want, in whatever model you want. If you don't like the "dream" model, use the "game" model, or the "story" model, or make one up for yourself.
Personally i find the dream model perfect,for the Loa ..it fits it so well (like what you give focus and thought you make exist,you create). It's few days i really feel this perspective like never before,i was reading something few days ago,an article about it that has triggered the state for me,an understanding,i would never wanna leave it probably,it feels good .

[ButterflyWoman]

Another frame that works for a lot of people is that of a "game", in the sense that we (individually and collectively) are an infinite being with no limitations and no boundaries, who is playing a game with itself, setting up rules and guidelines, etc., and then working within the limiting parameters for a challenge.

Personally, I like to think of the Star Trek holodeck. Everything on the holodeck looks and feels entirely, utterly, convincingly real, but it's all just a simulation, projected by the computer. In fact, the idea of the universe as a hologram is a theory of quantum physics, along with the idea that reality as we know it is really just made up of information (data).

[Giorgia]

I like the dream model because if the world is what you think it is and whatever you believe you create it's sort of an imagination world where you can make up any story ...i tested and used this concept a bit in the past months and i had a thing happening to me that i thought it was impossible ,i have to test it more but it got me thinking .
What would you think would be the differences between the dream model ,the simulation ,the game or the story model you talked about (that i don't know) ?

[ButterflyWoman]

I think it just depends on what works for you. Some people don't like the dream model because they feel that if they can't fly or instantly change the colour of the sky or whatever it is they might do in a lucid dream, it drags them back into the model that says everything is external and objective and you've got little to no control over it. I get that, but for me, it's not a big deal because, honestly, I haven't got a lot of control over my sleeping dreams anyway. Yes, I sometimes dream about stuff I couldn't (and maybe wouldn't want to) do in waking life, but my dream control is minimal, at best. I have better control over my reality when I'm awake, actually.

The game model is one used by Robert Scheinfeld, who wrote a series of books about "Busting Loose", the first of which was "Busting Loose from the Money Game". It's not really about money, though, but about getting rid of limiting beliefs and so forth. I'm not 100% thrilled with the game model, mostly because I don't play any sports nor do I follow any, but it could be applied if you're a computer gamer, I suppose. Again, it's what your mind accepts and understands.

The Star Trek holodeck model is one that you probably need to have seen to understand. :) In essence, the holodeck is a specially designed empty room, and the computer is programmed to play out a scenario there, often things like books or other stories, and you participate in them as one of the characters. The room allows for the projected data to be solid and for all intents and purposes real, although it can't be taken off of the holodeck. A great many Star Trek stories take place in or around the holodeck, in fact, including references in a couple of the films. Oh, one other interesting feature of the holodeck is that it's possible to turn the safety restrictions off, so that a sword will really stab you and bullets will really kill you and so forth. So it can be a very real experience, indeed. But imagine if you'd been born in a holodeck simulation, or if you'd woken up in one with no memory of your former life. How would you know it wasn't "real"?

(You have to understand, I've been watching Star Trek in its many incarnations since I was a very small child, so this works for me very well. I just need to work out how to program the computer to project what I want ;))

Again, it just depends on how your own mind works, on what you understand. There are countless models people could use, and, in fact, "Objective Reality with Optional Supernatural Extras" (which is what most people are taught from birth) is just one more model (though I don't think it's a very useful one for metaphysical purposes).

[dreaming90]

ButterflyWoman, have you read Thomas Campbell's My Big TOE? You would probably like Tom's theory about the nature of consciousness. If I recall correctly, he theorizes that consciousness is just an enormous amount of self-organizing data, and that everything is an individuated unit of the larger One Consciousness.

It's free on google books, if you are interested...

[ButterflyWoman]

I haven't read it, no, but I'll put it on my list.

The theory of reality being structured out of information is also a working quantum physics theory, too.