The Deceivers

[Beekeeper]

This is what Hawaiian elder Hale Makua taught Hank Wesselman about the ‘e’epa.


The ‘e’epa are the deceivers.
They are not spirits but free-ranging psychic entities, invisible beings that function as brain parasites, preying on those who are vulnerable to their influences.
They are the ones encountered during what is known as the alien abduction experience: small and tall greys, insect beings and reptilians.
Psychics who channel are vulnerable to them because the realm where they operate is where the deceivers exist.
Schizophrenics are also vulnerable in certain instances.
They are accomplished shape shifters and mimics.
They encourage human beings to go to the negative polarity: into the dark side of their personalities until they reach a point where they can no longer self-correct. If we continue in that polarity, we become evil.
Their influence is everywhere in the world today.
They can be thought of as psychic vampires.
They are adversaries drawn to humans because they wish to acquire our human capacity for creative imagination. This lack means they will always be thwarted by the superiority of the human species.
They are mental phenomena that reside at the mental-emotional level where they attach to us.
They have especially attached themselves to political, economic and religious leaders.
It is apparently best not to think or speak about them, lest you attract their attention.

Not all aliens fall into this category. Some are like tourists, some are higher organizing intelligences – true spirits.


Hank Wesselman, Phd. The Bowl Of Light, Sounds True Inc. 2011. If you’re interested, you can listen to an interview on this book here: http://planetary-spirit.com/mp3s/Wesselman_0524.mp3 (http:// http://planetary-spirit.com/mp3s/Wesselman_0524.mp3)

[Beekeeper]

Oh, I forgot…. You’re possibly thinking, “What’s wrong with Beekeeper? – she doesn’t usually get all dark and conspiratorial?” You may already be aware that I’ve never really trusted “The Greys” but what triggered this post was watching The Scole Experiments movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qSEi_sfaSU In it some footage is shown that was apparently created directly onto the film by spirit entities. Anyway, there’s a brief moment where you see a creature that looks like a grey moving its eyes.

While I find true mediumship very impressive, I’ve always been a little anxious about the possibility of interference. (It’s possible that the Churches’ opposition to such things as channeling may have, at times at least, been based on their having dealt with some of the negative consequences). The Scole experiments are amazing but I dare say that everything isn’t necessarily what it appears to be.

[Sinera]

They have especially attached themselves to political, economic and religious leaders.Yes! Given the state of our world (not just today but from times documented by history), given a few shining exceptions, I believe especially that! Maybe D. Icke is absolutely right with his claim about the astral reptilian entities mind-controlling and thus 'posessing' this cabal of human (be they of a questionable physical reptilian bloodline themselves or not..) controllers of this planet.

[Korpo]

Hey, Volgerle.

Strange how viewpoints differ. I found not much of this credible. For better or worse, I predominantly see human nature at work in the world. Admittedly I don't often talk about the "worse" part.

When I look at what is described, I personally would tend to think this information given by the elder has been obtained by astral clairvoyance, where seeing is believing and vice versa, and is prone to its limitations.

[Beekeeper]

I will continue to disagree with you (and Kurt and Jung) on this one, Korpo. I've done a lot of exploration and I believe there's much more to these beings than just human imagination. That said, I don't believe for a minute that the royal family and other bloodline members are reptilians. They are human beings.

[Korpo]

Let me put it like this: I can imagine such beings to exist. I invested serious time in looking for clues about their nature. I just don't think they control the world, that's all.

[mick]

This is what Hawaiian elder Hale Makua taught Hank Wesselman about the ‘e’epa.

[LIST]
The ‘e’epa are the deceivers.
They are not spirits but free-ranging psychic entities, invisible beings that function as brain parasites, preying on those who are vulnerable to their influences.
They are the ones encountered during what is known as the alien abduction experience: small and tall greys, insect beings and reptilians.
Psychics who channel are vulnerable to them because the realm where they operate is where the deceivers exist.
Schizophrenics are also vulnerable in certain instances.
They are accomplished shape shifters and mimics.


We came across this term about twenty years ago when we were observing astrally some activities. In one instance we watched a figure in an orb moving towards a house where it turned out were some people organising a seance, the figure we were watching shifted into the form of a North American Indian and then made contact through the seance.

We checked with some non physical types that we were working with at the time and they called them DDs, this turned out to be short for double deceivers, a term arising from how they will play all sides.

The appearance in the orb prior to the shift was somewhat gargoyle like and indeed how we see them nowadays if we catch sight of them. Would add that the Gargoyle state is not necessarily the base state either as there can sometimes (in some cases only perhaps) be seen elements of a construct. Another appearance to add to your list is the blonde/Nordic form.

[mick]

Oh, I forgot…. You’re possibly thinking, “What’s wrong with Beekeeper? – she doesn’t usually get all dark and conspiratorial?” You may already be aware that I’ve never really trusted “The Greys” but what triggered this post was watching The Scole Experiments movie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qSEi_sfaSU In it some footage is shown that was apparently created directly onto the film by spirit entities. Anyway, there’s a brief moment where you see a creature that looks like a grey moving its eyes.


We live fairly close to Scole and from our perspective would say that it is a site of activity. We first had an interest through being members of the Society for Physical Research where this was being discussed at the time as they were involved in the investigations, have their report of that investigation which is thorough.

If I recall correctly the people at Scole curtailed their activities as they were warned that continuing activities were attracting undesirable entities, when first driving in that area after that period did at one point pick up on a locality response (that would fit that signature) and checked the map, Scole was close by and it panned out as the location direction and distance wise.

Will watch a bit more of the video sometime.

[heliac]

Hmm watching the movie on the scoal experiment group makes me want to do that too. Probably pretty hard trying to find people who are doing stuff like that though.

[Beekeeper]

Let me put it like this: I can imagine such beings to exist. I invested serious time in looking for clues about their nature. I just don't think they control the world, that's all.

We're on the same page then, Oliver. I think human beings must take responsibility for their own misdeeds and not just the ones in power but the ones who help them get there and the ones who let them remain there.


The appearance in the orb prior to the shift was somewhat gargoyle like and indeed how we see them nowadays if we catch sight of them. Would add that the Gargoyle state is not necessarily the base state either as there can sometimes (in some cases only perhaps) be seen elements of a construct. Another appearance to add to your list is the blonde/Nordic form.

Thanks for this Mick. I almost wrote more in my reply to Oliver about my experiences as a child with a gargoyle type creature in my lucid dreams. (I think Oliver knows those stories anyway and Leland talks about gargoyles too but as thought forms). They're definitely unpleasant creatures that enjoy inflicting fear but I don't think they are very powerful once challenged, even by a five year old.


Another appearance to add to your list is the blonde/Nordic form.
I agree.

[Beekeeper]

Probably should mention that I'm not convinced these things are limited to the mental and astral planes as Hale Makua believes. If you can trust the information, there seems to be physical evidence for their existence and interference at times. Nor do I think it's necessarily our creativity they wish to emulate: their ability as mimics would imply a degree of creativity of their own. Maybe this point needed more elaboration.

[CFTraveler]

I have considered that some situations may be 'etheric' and some physical, and I wonder if they are from the same 'beings', or if one is the RTZ version of the physical ones.

[Korpo]

Well, there is always the possibility of manifesting physical effects while residing on another plane. Isn't that what ectoplasmic materialization for example is supposed to be?

I have a series of very interesting books by Johannes Fiebag, too bad they're only in German, though Volgerle might certainly get a kick out of them. In "Die Anderen" (The Others) he traces all kinds of extranormal phenomena back to something that also seems both real and unreal, and tied to our public unconscious. I guess he was wondering along the line of holographic projections from a deeper reality, I'm not too sure.

He did a lot of research in what connects accounts of alien sightings, visions of Mother Mary, sightings of monsters and the Sasquatch and so on. He specifically described the quality of "mimicry" - of appearing as whatever seems to stir our imaginations, and even describes how past ages saw flying steam vessels instead of UFOs and so on.

Reading his stuff back then wrapped the whole UFO topic up for me. It was clear afterwards that it wasn't a purely physical phenomenon, but I didn't know where to go from there. I specifically found Budd Hopkins' explanations to be the least convincing as they were so physical (and paranoid - IMO). I turned to Raymond Fowler's books, and his accounts about synchronicity and the connection with NDEs I found there, I ended up - here.

[mick]

I have considered that some situations may be 'etheric' and some physical, and I wonder if they are from the same 'beings', or if one is the RTZ version of the physical ones.

As this is the UFO forum I was reminded of a fairly popular theory more evident outside of the Nuts and Bolts UFO people, I did a search for an older article (15 years ago) which I have not found as yet but turned up many other links. This is one that paints the picture.

http://www.thejinn.net/jinn_concept.htm

In other reading have come across the statement that being influenced by a Djinn is a legal defence in some places. :)

[sono2]

Thanks for that link to the Scole experiment!

[Beekeeper]

You're welcome, Sono.

Interesting link, Mick. I do enjoy your sharings and it's an interesting idea!

You might enjoy: http://www.sharedwisdom.com/hanks-shamanic-blogum/encounter-jinn-genie-egypt

[Beekeeper]

Just re-reading that link I sent you, these quotes stood out


J(inn): You humans are creators. We, the Jinn, cannot create but we can mimic… we can imitate… and we can affect potential outcomes, but we cannot create.


J: Oh… so you know about them… (The Jinn’s field brightened reflecting excitement.) The archons are not true spirits. They are mind beings, mental entities many of who were created by humans as thought-forms. Many of these function as attachments… as mental parasites.

HW: How do they do that?

J: They feed on the energy… on the attention paid to them by humans. This includes the energy generated by human belief systems. But they are not true spirits and they will cease to exist if nobody pays attention to them any more. The ones you call ‘the archons’ are those that we call ‘the deceivers,’ and like us they are not creative. But they can mimic and they can take on forms in response to human belief systems.

(I thought about this at some length, then asked.)

HW: Are they the ones we call the aliens or extraterrestrials?

(The Jinn didn’t appear to understand the question so I explained. Its response was more than interesting.)

J: The deceivers can take on many forms, drawing from the belief systems of humans… and… there are also visitors who come here from other places.

So, clearly Wesselman doesn't see them as the same beings, despite similarities.

[Sinera]

from the same dialogue: "The deceivers are not spirits. They live in the human mind, so the watchers cannot affect them."

so the deceivers are in a way our own creations? maybe this shows us that there is not so much a difference and contradiction to what Korpo says about most "negs" to be of 'human nature'? it is both, in a a way.
many (also in literature, by R.B. etc.) say that many negs are self-created too. maybe the "reptiles" are indeed both: astral/etheric entities who were created maybe by our reptilian-fear-brain-evolutionary past? they get self-aware and independent to some degree and influence / attach to (other) humans using their imagination, belief systems, mental/emotional states and 'receptivity' to feed on, and later they become a "meme" in society / the collective subconscious, such as the greys and their abduction scenarios :confused:

[Korpo]

Hello, Volgerle.

Could be. It would take a well-developed causal body to observe this properly, though. Or what Kurt has now dubbed the cosmic physical mental body. Only with a vehicle that can operate outside the constraints of both astral and mental planes this could be discerned and reliable information obtained. Such mystics are rare, so mostly astral clairvoyant information dominates the discussion, and so we cannot tell what is truly the case.

Oliver

[CFTraveler]

This is a very interesting discussion, I want to say.

[Beekeeper]

from the same dialogue: "The deceivers are not spirits. They live in the human mind, so the watchers cannot affect them."

so the deceivers are in a way our own creations? maybe this shows us that there is not so much a difference and contradiction to what Korpo says about most "negs" to be of 'human nature'? it is both, in a a way.
many (also in literature, by R.B. etc.) say that many negs are self-created too. maybe the "reptiles" are indeed both: astral/etheric entities who were created maybe by our reptilian-fear-brain-evolutionary past? they get self-aware and independent to some degree and influence / attach to (other) humans using their imagination, belief systems, mental/emotional states and 'receptivity' to feed on, and later they become a "meme" in society / the collective subconscious, such as the greys and their abduction scenarios :confused:

Yes, it crossed my mind. That's not to say that each person creates his own deceivers. The Archarchon, for example, is a collective creation.

Still doesn't explain physical evidence such as implants.




Hello, Volgerle.

Could be. It would take a well-developed causal body to observe this properly, though. Or what Kurt has now dubbed the cosmic physical mental body. Only with a vehicle that can operate outside the constraints of both astral and mental planes this could be discerned and reliable information obtained. Such mystics are rare, so mostly astral clairvoyant information dominates the discussion, and so we cannot tell what is truly the case.

Oliver


Well, it seems Mick observed such a thing.

I'm presuming that some of the indigenous spiritual leaders of the past observed such things in order to arrive at the knowledge. Certainly Hale Makua, as described in "The Bowl of Light," fits the bill.

[sono2]

Agreed! BTW Has anyone read "The Breaking Of Jim Sparks"? It can be downloaded as a pdf. - osrry i don't have a link any more.

[Beekeeper]

Jim Sparks - is that the Montauk guy? If so, I find that stuff so far fetched that's it's hard to credit.

[sono2]

No, not Montauk - sorry am so busy I can't search for the pdf link. He also speaks of Jinns, if I remember correctly - he followed a light back & forth one night, never getting any closer. It is actually a very disturbing book, he exposes his psyche in a very raw fashion.

[Beekeeper]

Okay. There are so many of them, it's hard to keep them all straight! I couldn't find the link either. I read this interview http://www.jerrypippin.com/Sparks w-LMH.pdf and noted the use of the phrase "masters of deception." They're not restricted to the astral and mental in Spark's view.

Considering the of these alleged beings coveting our creativity, while I read the PDF I did find myself wondering if their ideas for deception were taken out of human imagination.

[mick]

You're welcome, Sono.

Interesting link, Mick. I do enjoy your sharings and it's an interesting idea!

You might enjoy: http://www.sharedwisdom.com/hanks-shamanic-blogum/encounter-jinn-genie-egypt

An interesting read. I have some sympathy for the role of humans in the creation of various entities and other fabrications, some by design, some by spurious thoughts/actions. I am cautious not to turn this into a blame game except in the obvious cases of contrived constructions. The resultant nature of the products of such events may or may not be directly attributable to the human sources. The physical parallels of child birth can also produce a wide range of results, some being net contributors, others benign and others nightmares to those close or not so close to them irrespective perhaps of the quality of nurture...

In the dialogue there is some emphasis on the role of humans as exclusive creators but then mentions Sophia as a driving force. I do perceive a creative ability beyond the physical/humans also, so would not work with such a sharp divide, but a discussion for another time maybe.

Something about the description of the Sophia role struck a chord, if asked to describe the higher driver/force, my answer would be a predominant sense of Will that embodies a powerful predilection for life/creation. Some will talk of the big motivator being on the emotional level, that of love. Could say that such is manifested as a result of Will as I defined above but it's obviously just one viewpoint.

The Jinn answers do cover a lot of ground in respect of what our environment is, with a large chunk, if not all, of the local "non physical" environment being the product of humanity including its Gods or otherwise. I would also run with elements of that line based on experiences, but would add that the significant human role in some of these manifestations could just be the giving of space through humans non locality aspects, and consequently giving room for various elements to manifest. thereafter for some to continue to exist somewhat in its own right (with or without energy demands on others).

With that basis in mind perhaps a case can be made that we have created our own version of an afterlife within that basic construct, so long as enough humans believe in that particular version so it continues, little digression there. Would add that for various reasons I would not suggest that is the whole picture and solely a human centric one but the gateways to other regions often do have a somewhat human centric touch about them. :)

Would add, I did develop a slight suspicion while reading the dialogue that the Djinn might just be playing to his audience little. But then that is to be expected. :)
These entities always seem to paint a good picture of their own type and all others are dodgy. :) Encounter another type and the names get rotated. This used to be rife in Ufology channellings, don't check them out any more so maybe they have moved on but I have an inkling that they have not. :)

[Beekeeper]

These entities always seem to paint a good picture of their own type and all others are dodgy. :) Encounter another type and the names get rotated. This used to be rife in Ufology channellings, don't check them out any more so maybe they have moved on but I have an inkling that they have not. :)

It certainly crossed my mind as well that just because he thought the Jinn was constrained to tell truth in the encounter didn't mean its explanations were absolute truth. As you said, it would have its biases and it is a creature of free will, after all.

Of course, it's all taken on faith in somebody else's perceptions.

[mick]

Just re-reading that link I sent you, these quotes stood out


J(inn): You humans are creators. We, the Jinn, cannot create but we can mimic… we can imitate… and we can affect potential outcomes, but we cannot create.


I do wonder how often these entities are playing to the human ego? A variation on the permission gambit, gain an inroad through some ego stroking such as labelling humans special.
One wonders what might actually be meant by the term creation in this context? Would say that the actions of affecting outcomes is in the same creative genre, it being an exercising of Will.





J: Oh… so you know about them… (The Jinn’s field brightened reflecting excitement.) The archons are not true spirits. They are mind beings, mental entities many of who were created by humans as thought-forms. Many of these function as attachments… as mental parasites.

HW: How do they do that?

J: They feed on the energy… on the attention paid to them by humans. This includes the energy generated by human belief systems. But they are not true spirits and they will cease to exist if nobody pays attention to them any more. The ones you call ‘the archons’ are those that we call ‘the deceivers,’ and like us they are not creative. But they can mimic and they can take on forms in response to human belief systems.

(I thought about this at some length, then asked.)

HW: Are they the ones we call the aliens or extraterrestrials?

(The Jinn didn’t appear to understand the question so I explained. Its response was more than interesting.)

J: The deceivers can take on many forms, drawing from the belief systems of humans… and… there are also visitors who come here from other places.




So, clearly Wesselman doesn't see them as the same beings, despite similarities.

Noted that the Djinn talked of hopping a ride also then moves into a place where homage of various forms are made!

As mentioned earlier re. self promotion, I would wonder the description of the other entities versus their own role. I don't give specific credence to any of these classes of entities because many (all) come with the ability to "present" as they choose. If not in an actual specific form then possibly just to influence how they are perceived.

Myself, more likely, I would be noting how they are interacting with the immediate environment both voluntarily and involuntarily to get a sense of their purpose and role.

Where there is a verbal exchange, if a being gets road blocked by a question then I might read that as a sign of a limit of their capability, as can be seen in the limits to the scope of a Servitor type. Might also be an example of when they might be doing some data mining of the questioner to get enough in order to make an answer.

This question of energy sourcing is so often where this part of the arena eventually goes, whether these entities are human created or not, that some do work to obtain energy is somewhat evident and bring a range of wiles to achieve this.

But would also say this is just one element of our environment.

[mick]

Received an email pointing me at a book/website and video interview, it concerns the Djinn. Have not watched the video as yet but have taken a look at bits of the site. http://www.djinnuniverse.com/ This topic came to mind.

The authors present the idea that the Djinn as a race were hereabouts first and humanity has stepped into the same space. They give their background ideas to this and certain machinations that subsequently occurred. Maybe, but would add that on occasions when examining elements of our environment of the non physical we have also noted similar themes, a sense that some subtle areas that humanity occupy had/has earlier residents who are not totally comfortable with it. :) or maybe :(

Here is the interview link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3dqV9q_8oU&list=UUcfXFZOH4_ekFlavUeq8hEQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Edit: updated video link.

[Beekeeper]

Thanks for the links, Mick. I'll check them out.

I recently watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1q2Du_DkKbo. I can't say it convinced me but I did notice he claimed that there were extraterrestrial groups who referred to the greys as deceivers, even a coded message in a crop circle that said as much.

[Beekeeper]

Went to bookmark the video and got a "No video was found" message.

[defectron]

Yes, it crossed my mind. That's not to say that each person creates his own deceivers. The Archarchon, for example, is a collective creation.

Still doesn't explain physical evidence such as implants.


Well IO don't think there's any one end all explanation for the ufo phenamena, some of it is like is speculated here, negs and tulpas masquerading as aliens. But I also think alot of ufo's are genuine travelers from other places either extra terrestrial, extra dimensional or even both.

Thats not to say that just because a ufo leaves behind physical evidence it rules out the tulpa explanation, personally I believe it is possible for people to manifest other physical beings on the physical plane. In the occultist E A Koettings book Ipssissimus he relates an experience where one of his teachers manifested apples in the desert which they could eat. There have been other stories like this, even in the bible, moses turning a staff into a snake for example. An apple is a living thing, a part of a plant. If it is possible to physically manifest an apple how much of a leap would it be to create a full living animal or even a person in the same way? I think that thought forms people make on the astral plane are lesser examples of this that most of the time never fully integrate with our existence because the energy behind them is too weak.

Anyway regarding the ruling elite being possibly controlled by negs or other non human intelligences. I have a theory about why this may occur. To be fully possessed a person must willingly offer themselves to an entity. In exchange for doing so under these cercumstances the person will receive some knowledge and power from that enetity. Then after a certain period of time the entity will be excorcised from that person. I have seen enough reason to believe the elite are involved in the occult so it wouldnt be far fetched if they tried doing this. But perhaps they didn't quite know what they were doing and never fully exorcise the entities influence from their lives after it has happened. Perhaps this is how it started long ago, and now it has become tradition within their groups to bond with entities in this way? Of course this is all speculation on my part which may or may not be true, but it would explain some of the stories I have heard.

Of course I also believe that it is the people who put these criminals in power, so any messes they make are just as much the rest of our responsibility as it is theirs.

[mick]

Should have checked it first, I did a search and this looks like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3dqV9q_8oU&list=UUcfXFZOH4_ekFlavUeq8hEQ&index=1&feature=plcp

I updated the earlier post also.

[Beekeeper]

Should have checked it first, I did a search and this looks like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3dqV...1&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3dqV9q_8oU&list=UUcfXFZOH4_ekFlavUeq8hEQ&index=1&feature=plcp)

I updated the earlier post also.



Cool. I listened to an interview linked on their website and got the gist of what they believe and do.


Of course this is all speculation on my part which may or may not be true, but it would explain some of the stories I have heard.

Totally speculation in this thread, for all of us.:-)

[thedevil]

In most religions the enemy is a liar or deceiver of some kind and God is the Truth.

Loki in Norse mythology for example, illusion in Buddhism, the serpent/Satan in Judaism, etc...

In. Christianity we are taught to use the logos. Logos is Greek for logic and also means word, as in word of God the logic is meant to lead to truth. All s ien e, mathematics, philosophy, etc... is based on logic via theorems, axioms, postulates etc... such as "I think therefore I am" or A2 + B2 equals C2


Logically it should make sense. I fail to see any logic in the claims presented in this thread...

[Beekeeper]

Logically it should make sense. I fail to see any logic in the claims presented in this thread...

Then why participate in it at all, unless:

a. You're on a mission to save us all from our own stupidity;
b. You like the attention of being provocative;
c. You enjoy feeling superior and feel anyone who does what you disapprove as an exercise of their personal freedom owes you an explanation;
d. You joined the wrong forum;
e. You have too much time on your hand and don't know how to ignore what doesn't interest you.

You're most welcome to take your opinions where they may contribute to the discussion at hand - perhaps a science forum will be better suited.

[thedevil]

Touche?

Sorry you take my cooment as a personal attack? I just don't think any of it make much sense and I thought it would have been good for me to provide an oppossing viewpoint. I don't desire to hurt anyone I desire love but my strongest loyalties are to the truth and that means being logical/rational. I do not perceive that I am offended by any of your comments. I have been called much worse and I think they also don't logically make Mich sense to me

[mick]

"In most religions the enemy is a liar or deceiver of some kind and God is the Truth."

In my world if those I encounter are liars and/or deceivers then they are not my friends. In a general sense, such people are often seeking to exploit others and there are plenty of examples of this on various scales about the world. As such, for me I don't see such as being confined to a religious context.

"Logically it should make sense. I fail to see any logic in the claims presented in this thread... "

As much of the discussion has been regarding observations both personal and in anecdotal reports of others without strong conclusions being drawn it is more about an exploration than reaching some logical conclusion in the absence of sufficient data. Dismissing of an ongoing discussion of such would appear a little illogical. :)

[defectron]

Logically it should make sense. I fail to see any logic in the claims presented in this thread...


Well if you could go into more detail about which claims you feel are illogical and why I think that would be helpful.