Education

[sash]

I am looking to enquire whether anyone has any particular links or resources that acknowledge the existence of negs, spirits or negative factors in psychology or medicine.

Any type of perception outside of commonality would normally be deemed as a form of schizophrenia or psychosis I presume.
However I am curious if alternative interpretations have been applied practically or theoretically in these fields that endorse the existence of para-normal factors?

From my own studies into psychology I have found that general models of self and spirituality are quite poor when it comes to the heart of the matter.
Although the particular field of spirituality is gaining popularity, factors such as negs and astral projection seem far from "acceptable" areas of focus.
In this thread (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?t=2530) a few people stated that it will be the cumulative efforts of communities rather than the individual that will reduce the general power of negs over the human race.
For this to happen awareness of these issues must however reach more people, and the contribution of acknowledgment in the medical (a field supposed to be associated with health and healing) field would much further this cause.

[mick]

I wrote this for a mag a year or two ago, I could not get copyright permission to print the whole article so wrote something around it with a couple of quotes. The links are still working. The original article was posted aty AP amongst other places.


Psychology and Exorcism working together
This article arises as a result of coming across a document posted to several mysticism sites; this document at heart outlines a modern merging of the older methods and newer science. The mystical arena includes many perennial debates regarding science and religion/mysticism and for some there is unlikely to be a satisfactory meeting of minds any time soon, it was with this in mind that the article got my attention. I did try to contact the originating site with a view to obtaining permission to reprint but with no response. The article deals briefly, with how psychology worked to be recognised as a ‘science’. Readers of this subject will be aware that psychology had certain roots that included shadows of thinking that is more esoteric but these fell away over time along with methodologies of the time such as exorcism, there are probably also other methods that deserved to fall away, for example trepanning.

Quote: This issue is now being discussed in various psychological circles in the Islamic and Western world. A few years ago, the idea of a spiritual being possessing a human being was completely rejected by western psychologist as a form of superstitious beliefs carried over from the Middle Ages. More recently, as science matured and felt secure it began to re look into the possibility of the influence of such beings on humans. Chief among the modern psychiatrist and thinkers who discussed the possibility of spirit possession is Dr. M. Scott Peck the author of "The Road Less Traveled". In one of his books he mentions that he has personally attended to cases of spirit possession in which the patient were cured after exorcism in a vary short time that does not happen in psychiatric treatment.

The document goes on to make a case for the use of exorcism as a complementary methodology for the treatment of some psychiatric conditions such as schizophrenia, it points out how the term is somewhat all encompassing and draws a few analogies to explain why this should not be so.
The source of this document is an Islamic website that deals with healing topics and in general it makes for some informative reading. A feature of Islam is recognition of a class of entity known as the jinn, the nature of this is considered to be mischievous along with some other qualities and it is considered somewhat responsible for some of the ills that befall humankind. Indeed Islamic law takes account of the actions of the jinn and the resultant diminished responsibility that may occur for those affected by such. The document goes on to remind us of the possibility of jinn possession.

Quote: From this, we Muslims should not discard the possibility of Jinn possession. We have in the traditions of our prophet (pbuh) and the biography of early Muslim physicians much evidences to the value of reading the Quran and using its verses as therapy and a form of exorcism. We should be open minded in accepting the physical as well as the spiritual aspects of human nature…
… well-known traditional muslim healers discussed the value of Ruqaiyyah (prayer for therapeutic purposes as well as exorcism of Jinn possession).

So, a different tradition for most of us and while the article is fairly short and cursory it does I think provide an interesting example of how science and religion are, in some cases, finding common ground for research and revised thinking. The full article is at http://www.quranichealing.com/bpi.asp?caid=61&cid=138.
The place of the jinn has interested me for some time and some believe that their exploits could account for some UFO encounters, old hag interludes (incubus / succubus) and a few other things. Some will know or know of the late Gordon Creighton, he wrote an article with the title ‘The True Nature of UFO Entities’ originally published in Flying Saucer Review that explores some of these ideas. For those with a further interest it can currently be found at http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/jinns.htm. The sacred-text site is a repository of articles from many sources which without their efforts would no longer be available.

[enoch]

With regards to mental illness, all I can advise you all (through good experience) is that meds, although with their side-effects, are the best way of dealing with such diseases - including alot of patience and love! Have to remember here that mental illness is excactly what it's labelled as...a brain illness...and is fastly being tracked down and reprimanded by neuroscientists through PET scans mainly. I'd recommend a beautiful book written by Pyschiatrist, Kay Jamison, titled "An Unquiet Mind," in which she tells the horrific tale of her life struggle against manic depression. Although not as disastrous and life-destroying as schizophrenia, it paints a painful, lucid portrait of living with disease.

With all due respect, if you were to convince a mentally ill person that their woes are due to manevolent spirits out to get them, then I'm afraid we'd probably triple the current 15% suicide rate.

[mick]

With all due respect, if you were to convince a mentally ill person that their woes are due to manevolent spirits out to get them, then I'm afraid we'd probably triple the current 15% suicide rate.
Noted.
The article that I reference is not specifically doing that in isolation, it is apparently research by some medical professionals examining the role of exorcism and some documented conditions that improved as a result or so it says. Of course there could be many reasons for that including the placebo effect but the professionals should be accounting for that.

[enoch]

back to original question :lol: yes! I have seen, during my nocturnal ramblings around the dim and dusty corridoors of google, found a few works based on alternative methods of helping the mentally ill. For nstance, if you'd like to tke a step into scientology for a while, these guys are extremely anti-psychiatry.

edit: actually, I'm rattling my brains at the moment to remember a book I read, written by a psychiatrist who had spent his whole career documenting the experiences, beliefs and concepts of drug-takers and the mentally-ill. He made some remarkable discoveries during his documentations due to the fact that many deities, achetypes and symbols of ancient texts were known to manifest again during these sessions/documentations, suggesting, although very lightly, that there are firm and consistent spirit realities that can be tapped into.

I have always been curious about the fact that a lot of mentally ill patients use a lot of spiritual symbolism in their speech. In the U.S., a lot of it pertains to Christian symbols. I am guessing that in other countries, the symbolism would be related to whatever religion is predominant in that country.

[Rayson]

Just a sidenote on the "humans only use 10% of their brain" thing....

It turns out that is just a rumor. I wish I had been told that it was such in an easy way, but instead one time I used the stat on a psychology paper of mine, as a sort of lead-in to the main topic, and when I got my paper back, it looked like some poor TA had been self-injuring in response to my inaccuracy there was so much red on the paper. :D

I have no idea if the stat had any truth at one time, and it got lost, like "at any one given time only 10% of the human brain in is use" but I really don't know, so I've just taken to shooting down this ridiculously prevalent rumor, because I think it can be harmful to people's understanding of the brain.

[Chris]

edit: actually, I'm rattling my brains at the moment to remember a book I read, written by a psychiatrist who had spent his whole career documenting the experiences, beliefs and concepts of drug-takers and the mentally-ill. He made some remarkable discoveries during his documentations due to the fact that many deities, achetypes and symbols of ancient texts were known to manifest again during these sessions/documentations, suggesting, although very lightly, that there are firm and consistent spirit realities that can be tapped into.

I think this might be a sign of undercurrents in the brains processing and how it handles representations of reality and abstractions of it. This might be a bit vague as I’ve just thought of it and so not fleshed it out, but it seems under the surface layer of word based thought, one meets deeper levels of associations, symbols and abstractions.
What if there are certain natural processes which produce, through their actions, affinity to certain concepts, such as certain religious iconography or archetypes.
What if (more likely) our current known spiritual archetypes, religious figures and symbols are outwards representations of this, and so explaining why down the ages certain associations/symbols seem to appear. It might not point to a greater reality (as such) more a reality of the mind/brain.

[mick]

Just a sidenote on the "humans only use 10% of their brain" thing....

It turns out that is just a rumor.
http://staff.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html

William James is often the one given credit for this misnomer. :) Although it seems he garnered much respect for other aspects of his work. It was a non physiological based claim, amazing traction considering the evidence of the effect of brain injuries etc but fertile ground for the 12 step programme merchants.
Edit: Although it comes to mind that schools such as the Steiner variety outline their methods with a focus on there being a need to continually push the minds envelope in order to maximise the persons potential.

[Freawaru]

I think this might be a sign of undercurrents in the brains processing and how it handles representations of reality and abstractions of it. This might be a bit vague as I’ve just thought of it and so not fleshed it out, but it seems under the surface layer of word based thought, one meets deeper levels of associations, symbols and abstractions.
What if there are certain natural processes which produce, through their actions, affinity to certain concepts, such as certain religious iconography or archetypes.
What if (more likely) our current known spiritual archetypes, religious figures and symbols are outwards representations of this, and so explaining why down the ages certain associations/symbols seem to appear. It might not point to a greater reality (as such) more a reality of the mind/brain.

Yes. As much as I would like to believe in negs and greater reality and psychics we should always keep this possibility in mind. The brain does not only work on the rational conscious level but also on sub- and unconscious ones and they have their own language and concepts.

[CFTraveler]

edit: actually, I'm rattling my brains at the moment to remember a book I read, written by a psychiatrist who had spent his whole career documenting the experiences, beliefs and concepts of drug-takers and the mentally-ill. He made some remarkable discoveries during his documentations due to the fact that many deities, achetypes and symbols of ancient texts were known to manifest again during these sessions/documentations, suggesting, although very lightly, that there are firm and consistent spirit realities that can be tapped into.

I think this might be a sign of undercurrents in the brains processing and how it handles representations of reality and abstractions of it. This might be a bit vague as I’ve just thought of it and so not fleshed it out, but it seems under the surface layer of word based thought, one meets deeper levels of associations, symbols and abstractions.
What if there are certain natural processes which produce, through their actions, affinity to certain concepts, such as certain religious iconography or archetypes.
What if (more likely) our current known spiritual archetypes, religious figures and symbols are outwards representations of this, and so explaining why down the ages certain associations/symbols seem to appear. It might not point to a greater reality (as such) more a reality of the mind/brain. Maybe this has something to do with the discovery that when certain parts of the brain (in the temporal lobe, I believe) are stimulated with a particular frequency, an 'alien abduction eposiode' is experienced. I've often wondered who put that particular 'video' in our brains?

[mick]

Maybe this has something to do with the discovery that when certain parts of the brain (in the temporal lobe, I believe) are stimulated with a particular frequency, an 'alien abduction eposiode' is experienced. I've often wondered who put that particular 'video' in our brains?
Sounds like you are referring to the work of Persinger, an account here.
http://www.geocities.com/satanicus_2/GodHelmet.html

From what I have read the experience has a tendency to match the persons cultural makeup so a strongly religious will maybe have a religious experience, others maybe a UFO experience. The basic stimulus often seems to be a sense of presence.
The article is kind of interesting in that it talks about him having no peer support for his work nor funding. It apparently has all been financed privately.

[sash]

It is about perceptions. What an exorcist might see as a demon, a psychotherapist might see as a brain anomaly, a counsellor might see as a social disorder, a spiritualist might see as an awakened energy body.
I find synthesis is useful, and dropping these terms in general much a requisite. :D
For instance, isn't it odd that most people suffering from schizophrenia also have seemed to attain some level of spiritual enlightenment?
Or should we rather say, isn't it odd that so many people who have attained spiritual enlightenment have experienced some form of schizophrenia?

I'm beginning to view this whole general perspective as an issue of awareness rather than education per se.
Education seems to lose the essence of meanings.
No wonder it is near to impossible for spiritual teachings to work in a structured environment.

In the meantime I still think basic premises such as astral projection or healing, for instance, could be taught in such a structured environment.
I know that healing is taught quite a lot institutionally in Australia (and astral projection too, but not quite as widely).
Unfortunately it is not reaching as many people as it needs to be reaching.

Even in the most professional cases all related studies appear to be bucketed under "Psychology" (that's if they are lucky and not deemed "parapsychology").
However it appears that seldom people wouldn't want to know about their true nature and functioning. If this statement is true, then such teachings should not be exclusive to just psychology, when we are talking about the issue in a practical sense.

[Freawaru]

It is about perceptions. What an exorcist might see as a demon, a psychotherapist might see as a brain anomaly, a counsellor might see as a social disorder, a spiritualist might see as an awakened energy body.
I find synthesis is useful, and dropping these terms in general much a requisite. :D
For instance, isn't it odd that most people suffering from schizophrenia also have seemed to attain some level of spiritual enlightenment?
Or should we rather say, isn't it odd that so many people who have attained spiritual enlightenment have experienced some form of schizophrenia?


I think that article by Dion Fortune (at the Expanding Consciousness, Western mystery schools) hit it on the nail. During childhood our brain devellops a sense of self, that bases on comparing what happens to what is expected. Energy work or any other spiritual work, also shock, etc, can destabilize this sense of self or make it too strong, so that new "talents" and levels are not integrated properly. This is why the acient traditions do teach how to integrate this new stuff into the sense of self. The "demon" as well as the "angel" or "teacher" origins inside the person but it is experienced as outside and beyond control.

Also take for example "depersonalization disorder"

http://www.depersonalization.info/overview.html

I have experienced both this disorder (only a short time) and it is no fun. But there is another state, similar in many ways, namely the Impersonal Witness that is a (almost) full Enlightment state (state of vipassana). In both cases you are detached from this brain created sense of self and merged with something else (this also happend in samadhi). The difference is that in the disorder you just detach but do not reach higher levels of insight.

There seem to be three basic ways of dealing with the "demons". The first is to accept it as an ouside form and fight it (excorcism), the second is to know it is an inner form and lean to use and control it by rituals, symbolism and what Fortune calls "rising on the planes", that do not let the psychics influence the sense of self. The third is to expand the sense of self (a slow process) and finally overcome it completely (it is artifical after all) and thus become aware that the external had always been an internal force (Atman=Brahman Enlightment).