Qigong, NEW and a Health Problem - Advice Would Be Much Appreciated

[MrMatt83]

Hello everyone, I would like to ask your advice on something. I'd really appreciate any advice anybody could give me. I'm going to have to include a bit of personal history, so please bear with me.

For the last five years, I have suffered from a breathing problem. This is basically a tightness in my chest that continually makes breathing difficult. The conclusion that I have came to after dealing with this for so long is that it is essentially a psychosomatic problem (i.e., no obvious physical cause) caused by years of stress, frustration, anxiety and so on. I feel that these things have been significantly compounded by traumatic experiences during my younger and teenage years (school bullying etc) and an inability to acheive my ambitions in adult life (hence the frustration) whilst continuing to put in a massive workload towards those ambitions (all work and no play, basically). I could go into much more detail, but I'm trying to keep it concise, I'm sure you get the general idea.

About 8 years or so ago, I first learned NEW. I'd had several more-or-less spontaneous OBEs and was becoming interested in spiritual development. I read Journeys Out Of The Body by Robert Monroe and Mr Bruce's Astral Dynamics. At first, I took my energetic development, AP attempts etc quite seriously, but I was starting at college (studying music) and found that I had less and less time for it. After that I went out to work and continued to pursue my musical ambitions in my spare time (I became a bit too obsessed with it, tbh). I occasionally practised NEW during this period, but had so little free time that I went for long periods without practising.

Well, this health problem has eased somewhat since it first started. In the last year or two, I have particularly tried to live a balanced lifestyle - I reduced my music practise and sometimes stopped altogether, I eat quite healthily, I get regular exercise (running, swimming, cycling mostly. Because of my health i take it slowly, usually, but it's better than nothing) and I make sure to get out and see friends regularly. I have also practised NEW regularly, albeit keeping it quite simple (hands and feet more-or-less daily, arms and legs a little less often, the odd spinal bounce here and there, gently focusing on the Sub Navel etc). I try to do some simple breathing exercises daily too.

Recently, I have consulted a very experienced (30 years plus) Qigong teacher. Despite the fact that my moods have improved drastically in the last couple of years, my health could still be better, so I thought it was worth a try. Considering my poor finances, she has very kindly offered to teach me the basics for free. I'm very grateful for this, but something that I've found quite disturbing happened. Basically, she wanted to know the history of my problems, past experience etc etc, so, amongst other things, I mentioned Mr.Bruce's work. She hadn't heard of him, so she went away and did some research.

When she got back to me, she was generally very polite. However, to say that she was scathing about Mr.Bruce's work would be an understatement. She said that NEW was dangerous and had considerably exacerbated my health problems, that from what she could see Mr.Bruce would have little or no chi and that he was a 'snakeoil salesman'. This last part I find particularly hard to believe. From all the years that I've followed Mr.Bruce's work, I don't think he's ever came across as dishonest, arrogant, deceitful etc. If anything he seems humble and supportive. If that's an act, he's done a damn good job of keeping it up all this time. I had some trouble registering for the forums and Mr.Bruce and CFTraveller were very supportive and helpful. They certainly didn't come across as con-artists! As for the chi thing, I assumed that if someone had no chi/energy then they would be dead, or at least seriously ill? I've taken a few days to digest this, and I feel it's unlikely that I've made my problems worse with NEW. I've always followed Mr.Bruce's precautionary advice - I've hardly touched the Primary Centers and I've never raised energy into the Sub Heart or Sub Brow. To my intuition and experience, it seems more likely that vast amounts of negative emotions in my life for a prolonged period of time are to blame.

However, it is the amount of experience she has that bothers me. She definitely seems to know her stuff when it comes to Qigong, and I'm now very hesitant in using NEW. In fact, for the time being, I've stopped using it completely. I have a few questions, and I'd be very grateful if anybody could give me their advice, observations etc. These are:

*Has anybody in the AD community ever experienced a long-term (or otherwise) health issue that could possibly be associated with NEW? Or Qigong for that matter? (I understand that this is personal, so I'm not forcing anybody to give out details or say anything if they don't want to)
*Could NEW possibly be an unbalanced or 'lopsided' system considering the lack of yogic breathing, stances for rooting/grounding etc? Or is its simplicity actually a strength?
*Is the energy body/meridian system as delicate as my Qigong teacher seems to imply? Or is it robust, as Mr.Bruce says? (providing Mr.Bruce's cautions are adhered to, of course)
*Awareness actions used in NEW often stimulate whole groups of accupoints that, in Traditional Chinese Medicine, would have different individual functions. Is this wise? Could there be side-effects from overdoing it?
*My teacher also said that NEW was unwise because it didn't take into account the many different types of chi. Although I was aware that there were basic types (ie, earth, air or heaven etc), I previously felt that the intention used played a large role in converting the type of energy raised or used. Which is correct? Or is there a middle area between the two?

I'm really feeling conflicted because my experience says one thing whilst hers says another, and she has vastly more of it. But I am the only one who has lived my life in my body, if you see what I mean. I'm sorry that I've rambled on a bit, but seeing as my health is at stake I wanted to give some background to the problem. I also really want to avoid offending anyone in questioning NEW or bringing up what my teacher said about Mr.Bruce. I know the community here, as well as myself, have a great respect for him and for NEW, however, I need to put my health first and am shaken enough by this to need some second opinions from the only people who could truly know - those who practise NEW themselves. But I apologise in advance if offence is caused.

If anybody has any opinions, advice or observations on the above questions or anything else that seems relevant, I would be very grateful for them. I'd particularly like to hear from the more experienced practitioners of NEW, Qigong or both, but of course I will welcome anybody's opinions!

Thank you in advance,

Matt.

[CFTraveler]

Hi Matt, glad to see you're here.
I have a couple of questions and a few comments, I'm sure others very experienced in eastern systems (like Korpo, for example) will be able to answer your questions with better detail, and as there are various practicioners in this forums will chime in. I also recommend that you pare some of this down and ask Robert directly about some of the things you mentioned, because he may have something specific to say, although I think you've been in contact with him through email, in which case you've already gotten some of the answers?
Anyway, my first question:

For the last five years, I have suffered from a breathing problem. This is basically a tightness in my chest that continually makes breathing difficult. The conclusion that I have came to after dealing with this for so long is that it is essentially a psychosomatic problem (i.e., no obvious physical cause) caused by years of stress, frustration, anxiety and so on. First of all, have you been evaluated by a medical professional about this? A complete workup, xrays and possibly an MRI scan? I have a specific reason to ask you this- if you want to know why we can talk about this over the pm system.

My comment is, that in some eastern systems of Taichi or Qigong, the circulations that are taught are considered to be very 'delicate' and even dangerous, and even though I've played a little with some of them I haven't had any adverse effect from them.
But I can see why a practitioner of eastern energy arts may be alarmed with NEW- it being as general as it is. But IMO, the way Robert teaches it (for example, focusing on general flows and grounding before even getting into major chakras and even the higher ones, like other ones teach)- they consider many things to be dangerous. I just don't agree with some of this, and don't know enough to have a firm opinion on what exactly is the problem.
I remember how some Yogis recommend people not to do alternate nostril breathing, for example-yet some of us do it without adverse consequences- so I don't know.
What I do know is that for some people energy work may stimulate or trigger a Kundalini awakening- and this is true of any Energy system, meditation system or even a tough life situation- so if this is what alarms her, it's not unwarranted- it is my opinion that anything that increases awareness can cause problems- which is why we have warnings about making sure you are balanced before messing with anything that makes you *more* aware.
I don't know if this helps or just befuddles more, I'm sure others may have more to add.

[sleeper]

discover the motive of your Qigong instructor and you will understand why they lambasted robert: sadly, there are many delicate egos even in the spiritual community and when someone challenges their accomplishments, they often lash back.

many people with 30+ years of experience have very low levels of personal attainment and so they cling to their knowledge of their chosen system as a crutch for their ego. every spiritual person with a moderate attainment or experience ought to be very accepting and permissive of different approaches to spiritual development. only a novice would believe that there is "one true path" that everyone must follow.

whether or not there is one perfect approach to spirituality is not at question - what is at question is whether you should follow the same approach/path as someone else. and i don't think any 2 people will follow the precisely same path, nor should they.

of course there are advantages and disadvantages to many approaches. regarding the different qualities of chi, it is true that there are different qualities however it is supremely arrogant of any system to say that they have the perfect taxonomy of them. furthermore it is an error to believe that you must do anything with those qualities; i.e. they are intrinsic qualities that you don't have to mess with, unless you are a master who is experimenting. comprende?

my advice is to gratefully learn from your Qigong instructor, whatever you can, but do not allow anyone to prohibit you from learning or to scare you from knowledge.

regarding your breathing how is your back? alignment, posture and strength all matter. also, how is your digestion? do you have popping/clicking in your ankles, knees or shoulders?

the energy system is always subtle, often misunderstood, occasionally delicate but not particularly fragile i.e. putting your awareness on your arm won't make it explode or anything. i mean, if you take your qigong teachers advice seriously then you have to avoid being aware of your body at all, ever, right? because that would stimulate your energy body and you might explode into a thousand pieces of feng shui or something.

so this instructor sounds smart and you can probably learn from them, then find your own path. but don't dismiss either/or. learn. decide for yourself.

my 3c

~dale

[MrMatt83]

Thanks very much CFTraveller and sleeper, that really helps. I know my OP is a bit on the lengthy side so I appreciate you taking the time to read through it and share your thoughts.

CFTraveller, yes, I have seen quite a few doctors about this problem over the years. It has been a bit of a mixed experience tbh, but they do seem certain that it is nothing serious/life-threatening. Stress/anxiety seem to be the main themes and they do seem to affect the problem somewhat. My current doctor has encouraged me to do common sense things that may help (yoga, exercise, socialising etc) and I do think this has helped in a general sort of way, though the problem itself isn't too much better. As most of the doctors I've seen don't feel there is a physical cause, I have been refused x-rays, MRIs and the like. I am considering going down the private healthcare route and getting these things done as a precaution though. I would like to hear your thoughts so I will send u that pm when I get a chance :)

I haven't actually spoke to Robert specifically about this yet, but I think I will ask his thoughts. I was a bit worried that I might in some way cause offence by relaying my teacher's concerns about NEW etc, but I'm probably just overthinking things. I do that all the time! :-s

CFTraveller, your advice certainly hasn't confused me more, I'm feeling a lot more reassured now. I think what you and sleeper (also great advice, thanks!) are driving at is that it's all down to personal experience. This is what appealed to me about Robert's work, and so when I started with NEW I really tried to approach it in that manner. I did go in and out of practise in the early years, but when I have practised, including regular practice over the last year or two, I've tried to approach it in a common sense and level-headed manner, alongside other things in my life. It seemed to be the healthy way to do it and I still feel that is the case.

My body hasn't given me any feelings or sensations to cause alarm, so I doubt NEW itself is at fault. Obviously, there is my health problem itself, but this started at a time when I wasn't actively practising NEW and hadn't really done that much previously. Other things to do with my life situation at that time make far more sense in that regard. Anyway, I've experienced the removal of one major and at least a couple of minor-ish blockages through NEW, so I think it's more likely that it's helped rather than hindered.

And sleeper, you are right, I really just have to learn these things for myself. My teacher has offered to show me some yogic breathing and has suggested I get a yoga/pilates/exercise ball to help with postural realignment. I'm grateful for this and I will try to learn whatever she has to teach me as best I can. But I will choose my own route and, as you say, no two spiritual paths are the same. I think the fact that she comes from a very traditional background in the energy arts (discipled to a master when young, studied with masters in Asia etc) possibly just puts her at odds with less-traditional ways of thinking or more recent theories on these things. But perhaps I can gain something from staying open minded about both approaches.

Regarding my back, posture etc:

Until recently, I had felt that my back was fairly good, however, I have recently developed some pain and discomfort in my upper back due to leaning over things (guitars, computers etc) a bit too much lately.

My posture is, I think, fairly good (not an expert with these things though, so could be wrong!), with a couple of exceptions (including the back thing, above). The joints in my lower body seem fine, though my shoulders and wrists could be better. These don't pop noticeably, except sometimes if I do mobility exercises so this will be something to pay a bit more attention to. Perhaps some yoga or general stretches might also help.

Most of my strength is in my legs, so developing a slightly better balance between upper body, lower body and core muscles would also probably help.

My digestion seems fine, as far as I can tell.

Thanks also for both of your advice on Kundalini and quality of chi/energy. I'll try to take these things on board. I can see how my teacher could be concerned about a Kundalini awakening. I've never experienced the symptoms of one, but I do know I'm (probably obviously) not ready for such an experience.

I had previously felt that the Secondary Circuit/system seemed very robust, although I didn't really have the necessary experience with the Primary Centers. I think I just was a bit shocked about what my instructor had to say. But I'm going to trust my experience on this. I can still respect what my instructor has to say whilst teaching me, but I suppose our own experiences are unique to ourselves, and, as you say, it is down to me to decide what the correct path is. And sleeper, you are right, I'm always going to have at least some awareness of my own body so the energy body can't be that fragile. The physical body is so resilient that I don't think it would make sense to have a terribly fragile energetic system supporting it. Exploding into a thousand pieces of feng shui does sound interesting though! ;-)

Thanks very much again to both of you, this has helped alleviate some of my concerns and reassure me quite a bit. It helps to have someone to talk to about these things. I'll send you that pm as soon as I can, CFTraveller.

Take care,
Matt.

Ps. kind of a long reply, sorry about that.