Projecting in the astral - feels "not real"

[exodus082]

Hi,

Sometimes i project into the astral. I have never really trained for it, it started happening automatically by reading about AP a few years ago. I happens once in a month of two months or so.

Now, the issue i have with astral projecting, is that it doesn't seem so interesting after a while. I would like to project into higher realms (i think that is more interesting) but so far that has not happened. I project as high mid astral realms (i think). These are nice views, mountains, lakes, small villages, and generally a good atmosphere.

But the thing is, there is not much activity, it is not very interesting. I mostly enjoy the scenery, but that's it. I enjoy it for what is, but it does not bring much "value".

More and more I find it to be "fake" or "not real". That feeling diminishes the excitement. Once i fell through the ground and i saw the underside als lines as in a hologram. Always that "not real" feeling is with me. Sometimes it gets even worse and i project in fairy castle scenery with witches flying around on broom sticks, and once some kind of lego-land! I know that from higher realm the physical life can also been seen as an illusion, but in the astral i have a strong feeling of "fake" ie illusion.

Has anyone also had these impressions or any comments?

Thank you

[Beekeeper]

I think you'll find in Buddhist traditions that the astral is considered part of the Maya. I'm not a Buddhist, so I may be wrong on that.

[psionickx]

it started happening automatically by reading about AP a few years ago
why i wish i were that lucky my very self!


Now, the issue i have with astral projecting, is that it doesn't seem so interesting after a while.
Do you find that this relates to AP only*? - because very often as the initial charm wears off ,things tend to lose luster and therefore novelty.I find that metaphysical practices to be not so different in this regard.


I would like to project into higher realms (i think that is more interesting) but so far that has not happened

I enjoy it for what is, but it does not bring much "value".
I would suggest looking into the AR.That's what I've been doing ever since my AP "zeal" wore off - there's a plethora of techniques for this and not all of them involve the text-book type of projection , if you are more of a stickler for reality/RTZ based experience.


More and more I find it to be "fake" or "not real". That feeling diminishes the excitement.

Always that "not real" feeling is with me. Sometimes it gets even worse
..on the bigger spectrum of things it goes beyond "verification of reality" if i.e what you are talking about to a question of "authentic veracity" to illustrate my point with an example the fact is the other day i was reading someone's entry where they talked about projecting into "the thaughtform relam" where thaughts/imagination products (witches goblins whatnot) were interactive and refused to fade till the projector conciously re-entered RT.
What going criteria is there for a fixed "here and real" and "there and imaginary" also would you take this index of truth from other people ....or undergo the process of evaluation yourself? (as devoid of excitement it might at times appear to be)



but in the astral i have a strong feeling of "fake" ie illusion
If i get that fake illusion like feeling in reality does that mean i'm

a)overcoming base inculcated pre-programming and my subconcious fixed norms are rebelling to it
b)there's more to reality that i other people are currently working to understand
c)the human neurobiological faculties of comprehension are limited?
d)i'm going :wacky1:

[greytraveller]

Hallo exodus182
The farther that a person gets from physical reality (known as the Real Time Zone (RTZ) in the astral) the more fantastic and 'unreal' the locations seem to become. I have had a few true astral projections to places like the ones you have described. (Check out my journal here for the OBE titled "Sorceress" for one such AP.)
You are most probably correct in believing that you project to "high mid astral realms". That seems about right. There is nothing wrong with that. Most likely you eventually Will begin to project into the higher realms. Especially if you continue to have a strong desire to do so.
One suggestion is to repeat an affirmation before sleep each night. Perhaps something like "I will project to a high astral realm tonight" (or anything similar that you can devise) will help get you there.

Sincerely
Grey

[Alienor]

Hi exodus182,
to me it does sound like you are having lucid dreams. There are many things you can do in lucid dreams to help your spiritual growth and also to get some skills useful for possible later astral projections.
The flexibility you experience in a lucid dream will be beneficial also for your awake life.

Maybe reading a bit about dream yoga and about lucid dreaming would be interesting for you. Here is something on why people find lucid dreams useful: http://www.dreamviews.com/section/why-lucid-dream-8/

[Alienor]

Hi exodus182,
to me it does sound like you are having lucid dreams. There are many things you can do in lucid dreams to help your spiritual growth and also to get some skills useful for possible later astral projections.
The flexibility you experience in a lucid dream will be beneficial also for your awake life.

Maybe reading a bit about dream yoga and about lucid dreaming would be interesting for you. Here is something on why people find lucid dreams useful: http://www.dreamviews.com/section/why-lucid-dream-8/

[GRANT]

The higher realms are increasingly harder to acheive, cultivate those AP's. Don't be suprised if you remember the experience a few days after the fact. Be sure to set the same time each day for your practice.(I should practice what I preach). It takes longer and longer to achieve enough "know how" to get to the higher realms.
Alcohol and a full belly definitely lowers your frequencies; which hinder ever RTZ projections.
Grant

[Korpo]

Hello, exodus082.

Your story reminds me a lot of what Robert Monroe wrote in the beginning of his second book, "Far Journeys". Monroe's problem was that nothing interesting was happening, and in his case, he especially did not encounter anyone. He really got tired of this mode of exploration.

He changed his approach then. He asked to be taken where he needs to be, and this promptly happened. He felt "picked up" and rushed towards another place. All the events from the 2nd and 3rd book derive from this moment, which for him was a game-changer. It also eventually took him to higher realms.

I don't know what exactly your game-changer will be. Your intention to visit the higher realms might trigger a process of growth that will get you there, ultimately. But it might take quite a while and it may not be apparent that it is happening.

Have you ever met someone or conversed with someone on the astral plane?

Cheers,
Oliver

[exodus082]

Thanks for all the replies and advice. I will try the affirmations.


Hello, exodus082.

Your story reminds me a lot of what Robert Monroe wrote in the beginning of his second book, "Far Journeys". Monroe's problem was that nothing interesting was happening, and in his case, he especially did not encounter anyone. He really got tired of this mode of exploration.

He changed his approach then. He asked to be taken where he needs to be, and this promptly happened. He felt "picked up" and rushed towards another place. All the events from the 2nd and 3rd book derive from this moment, which for him was a game-changer. It also eventually took him to higher realms.

Yes, that is a good idea. I will try this next time i have one. Actually, my AP's started whem reading Robert Monroe's books. They are great books.

In the beginning i really wanted to have a real time zone projection, as if i needed validation for what was happening. Now i have given up on that need. I have never really had an RTZ projection though. Maybe once in the beginning a few years ago. But i instantly snapped back because of fear. The sound and feeling was intense! (It happened after a weekend of lot of partying, i felt bad and very tired).




Have you ever met someone or conversed with someone on the astral plane?

Yes, not much, but it was never quite "lucid" not as if you talk to someone like in real life. It had that dream like quality. The ones i talked to, that i remember, seemed to be living in their own world, and really don't know where you are coming from.

One example is when i projected, i shouted "take me to my higher self". (Tried that a lot but doesn't happen). Once i felt an upwards movement and went a short while through a grey mist tunnel. I arrived in a room where there was a human being standing. I had the feeling this was "his" room. On one side of the room there were dismembered limbs on poles. And the other side was "normal". Somehow i took that as a symbol for yin and yang or good and evil duality. My consiousness was not so lucid, so in I my naivité i asked the being why I incarnated in that place and time, thinking I might have really met my higher self. The being seemed surprised and answered because of the sea. (I live near the sea). Then i don't remember

In retrospect it was obvious that the being was not my higher self. The being seemed surprised to find me there, and i have the feeling he just gave answer based on little that he knew or could know. He seemed suprised and just played along.

[Korpo]

Hello, exodus082.


Yes, that is a good idea. I will try this next time i have one. Actually, my AP's started whem reading Robert Monroe's books. They are great books.

Yes, they were my starting point, too. They surprised me on rereading them, because I did not find the bit at the start of the 2nd book significant, when later on I realised its importance. By the reading from the first time had blurred the books for me. Upon rereading "Journeys out of Body" for the 2nd time years later I only realised how little of interest really happened there and how undecipherable and bizarre some of the experiences were.


In the beginning i really wanted to have a real time zone projection, as if i needed validation for what was happening. Now i have given up on that need. I have never really had an RTZ projection though. Maybe once in the beginning a few years ago. But i instantly snapped back because of fear. The sound and feeling was intense! (It happened after a weekend of lot of partying, i felt bad and very tired).

I don't know if this is the rule, but I also tend to think that projections to the RTZ are a bit more likely to trigger fear reflexes. They can be rather eerie. Also some of Monroe's accounts were not too encouraging in his regard. I guess when you get beyond the lower astral realms a feeling of more and more safety and comfort develops, in part to the more positive nature of the surroundings and in part due to the inner changes one has to make to get there.


Yes, not much, but it was never quite "lucid" not as if you talk to someone like in real life. It had that dream like quality. The ones i talked to, that i remember, seemed to be living in their own world, and really don't know where you are coming from.

They could have been a sort of dream character, and as such not very conscious. Theosophy believes dream characters are spontaneously formed from the "matter" of the astral plane and as such are more a response to the material and stimulus that attracted them than really independent conscious entities. Robert Waggoner, author of "Lucid Dreaming", lists many conversations he had with dream characters, and I would tend to think dream characters by themselves maybe not even conscious of their status and maybe not able to question it.

Non-lucid sleeper and discarnates might be similar in response. Remember how Monroe reported communicating with people that would have either been awake or not lucid on the plane he was on? It was as if a not-lucid version of them was available. Similarly dead people might not be able to be lucid enough as-of-yet to question their surroundings.

Kurt Leland terms lucid explorers "Rangers". Ranger are unique in many ways in that they can change subplanes and sometimes planes and keep some awareness that what they are exploring are nonphysical worlds. Lucidity as this always transcends one's surroundings - the knowledge that what one experiences is not everything there is. This kind of knowledge will often not be present in Shades (recently deceased people in Kurt's terms) or Sleepers (non-lucid dreamers). To them whatever they see is true and reality and nothing beyond it. You might remember how you in the past have also believed the strangest things to be true in dreams or accepted even the weirdest circumstance. I know I have. ;)

Lucidity then is also the ability to see behind the scenes. At times this ability may trigger being able to "see the props," the underlying nature of the planes and nonphysical realities, as you did here:


More and more I find it to be "fake" or "not real". That feeling diminishes the excitement. Once i fell through the ground and i saw the underside als lines as in a hologram. Always that "not real" feeling is with me.

This means you could travel outside of the subplane or dream reality you were on and actually see it as such from the "outside." (Never mind the spatial relationships of nonphysical reality don't make any sense at all at times.) The old AD website had a symbol Robert Bruce had seen when crossing between subplanes. When he did so he would see flower-like fractal pattern repeated endlessly on a flat surface of squares. This would be his personal representation of subplane boundaries and what he experienced when traversing between subplanes of the same plane.

Your experience could have been similar. You may know the movie "The Truman Show". Its final scene is full of excellent symbolism - he travels to the edge of the bubble world he is in on a sailboat. He hits the edge of the "sky" and realises the "sky" is just painted on the perimeter of a giant wall that surrounds his world. This scene is the culmination of his becoming aware of the limits of his reality and hence gaining his own kind of lucidity and hence liberating himself from it as he walks along the edge of it till he finds a maintenance exit. You also might have seen a "maintenance exit" of sorts, kind of like the corridors in "Matrix: Reloaded". Popular culture has a lot of images for this without knowing why IMO.

Kurt Leland has a term for this too. In quoting Seth (the entity Jane Roberts channeled) he calls this "camouflage patterns" (the part of the surrounding reality that prevents you from detecting anything beyond its limits). Detecting the unrealness of one level of reality can be a sign that the inner senses of an energy body are developing in a direction that enables transcending them. This might be why the astral planes now feel unsatisfactory and unreal to you.

While Kurt has not written about how this relates for example to the chakras in his book "The Multidimensional Human" it might be worth to have a look at it at this point. What I have referred to here Kurt relates to developing the 7th chakra of any energy body:


1st chakra, sense of being in a new state of consciousness or body, nothing else, no sense of place
2nd chakra, sense of being in a space, but no ability to perceive it or move around in it
3rd chakra, ability to move within a space, but not necessarily to perceive it
4th chakra, ability to sense the presence of other nonphysical beings and distinguish between them by function
5th chakra, ability to communicate with other nonphysical beings
6th chakra, coordinates inner sense impressions to create the experience of being in a virtual nonphysical environment, including startlingly clear visuals (though these may be representations of non-space non-time oriented environments in imagery derived from the physical reality)
7th chakra, allows you to transcend the perceptual biases of the body you're in so you can transfer your focus of consciousness to the next higher energy body
Kurt Leland (from a forum post made by Kurt Leland)

According to Kurt "perceptual biases" keep one confined to a certain plane and associated energy body. Once one overcomes a set of perceptual biases one gains access to the next plane beyond, which also has to do with developing the 7th chakra of the respective energy body. The 6th and 7th chakras are also most strongly associated with the notion of lucidity if I remember correctly.

I can't say how far along you are in this process really or how long it might take you. But this might shed some light on the larger picture surrounding some experiences.

Cheers,
Oliver