Damn cats!!

[Neil Templar]

Ahhh those pesky elementals are a constant struggle to keep under control.
last night i was once again confronted by them, in the form of three big cats. Two were panthers, big black beauties. Very serene, sitting/lying around purring...
The other was even bigger. He was black also, but i knew he was a cross between a panther and a tiger. He was huge!
And he wasn't behaving. He kept trying to get out of the house we all lived in. He'd come to the front door as i was leaving, and try to escape. I'd grab him, and he'd grab my hand in his mouth.
Then the battle of wills would begin... He'd have my hand clamped between his back teeth, tight enough to have a really strong grip, but not tight enough to take a finger off. I knew he could any time, if he wanted, but i knew he wouldn't. So we'd be at the doorway, i'd be talking to him, telling him to behave and get inside, while trying to drag his huge bulk into the hall...he'd be digging his claws into the floor, and giving me little hard bites, as if to remind me "i could have your fingers off in a minute pal".
I showed no fear, and after quite a struggle, he eventually gave up and allowed me to escort him back in to the main room, where the others were lying playing...

[Korpo]

Hello, Neil.

If three elementals are portrayed together, the big and dominant one is usually the mental one. There are several clues to this in the scene, actually. The more docile ones are aligned, under control and well-behaved. These are usually the lower ones and they are often even identical, almost identical, or in other ways portrayed as being more closely related.

Like you I had an experience were three elementals were portrayed as this. The lower two were actually twin girls, and the mental elemental was an older boy, acting out. Children are like animals common symbols for elementals, showing qualities the elementals have, too: You have to keep an eye on them, train and educate them, and make persistent effort. If you fulfill their needs, there's usually a beneficial and comparatively peaceful relationship. They expose behaviors ranging from resistance over opposition to downright acting out. That would be equivalent to the degree of alignment in the elemental.

In this case you have a struggle to keep the mental elemental in alignment (keep it in the house), you struggle to keep it aligned and find resistance, and you overcome the resistance. The mental elemental can be shown as a fearsome beast at times, I am for example reminded of one of Bruce Frantzis' books where the struggle with the ego is compared to "hearing the tiger's roar."

There's another element present in the symbolism - the picture of being locked into a situation together with the elemental, you grab him, and it grabs you. This also shows that you cannot do without your mental elemental and hence the ego, you have to reach a situation where the ego submits to the higher goals and aligns itself with the higher bodies. In this case the ego has already substantially yielded to the higher aspect in that it would resist and challenge, but not act out, and eventually submit again.

[noctua_breve]

What would happen if you proceeded to take a walk with the big cat/elemental outside the house?

[Neil Templar]

What would happen if you proceeded to take a walk with the big cat/elemental outside the house?

Interesting question!
I'm not sure. I don't know enough about the nature of the Elementals. Perhaps an expansion of some sort?... Oliver, what do you reckon?

[Korpo]

No idea. :)

Probably most interesting would be querying the elemental and learn about its motivations or the root causes of its resistance.

Cheers,
Oliver

[Beekeeper]

If it's recurring, could it be possible you've misinterpreted?

[istia]

I would say its just not meant to be taken outside to have a walk with it there, as it is an inner element, which needs to be tamed INside. The confrontation, which for me also means integration of this certain element+energy, happens directly within. There`s a sort of temptation but resistence and fearlessness are exerted and therefor leading to success and growth, which probably will be mirrored soon also in reality.

[Korpo]

Hello, Beek.


If it's recurring, could it be possible you've misinterpreted?

Maybe, but I don't think exactly the same constellation is recurring. This reads more like status updates, because for example there are two aligned ones and one that needs attention. And they do tend to go out of alignment once in a while. I read that dream symbols that recur within consecutive nights are more likely to need more processing and interpreting.

istia, I like the interpretation with the inside. That probably nails it.

Cheers,
Oliver

[Neil Templar]

If it's recurring, could it be possible you've misinterpreted?


Hello, Beek.



Maybe, but I don't think exactly the same constellation is recurring. This reads more like status updates, because for example there are two aligned ones and one that needs attention. And they do tend to go out of alignment once in a while. I read that dream symbols that recur within consecutive nights are more likely to need more processing and interpreting.

istia, I like the interpretation with the inside. That probably nails it.

Cheers,
Oliver

Indeed. I've had recurring dreams in the past, and these are definitely not the same.
To me it seems like at some point, i've become aware of my relationship with the three, and am now simply privy to the constant attention required to keep balance in such a relationship. (Imagine having three girlfriends to keep happy, :wacky1: i can't imagine there being too many times where all three are completely satisfied. Sorry ladies, you know what i mean. :P:thumbsup:)

I'll have to take a look back at my dream journal to be sure, but i've a feeling my experiences with them started around the same time as a few initiatory-type experiences, which were closely followed by several that were clearly developing inner senses (again), which suggests a shift into a higher plane/zone of experience, ie, Astral - Mental.

And Istia, ditto! The interpretation of what's happening inside seems spot on to me. I mean, there's a reason i worked so hard to keep the damn thing from getting out, right?! Tho i do like Oliver's suggestion that talking to it might provide some better insight into it's(my) needs.:)

[Beekeeper]

Okay, had to ask just in case.;)

[Korpo]

The work to keep them aligned might lessen over time, very probably will. This is not only a status update dream, it's probably also an active release of some resistance in the mental body, embodied by the struggle. Similar to processing such experiences in meditation, but clad in symbolic imagery.

The higher aspects do tend to order and align the lower ones, but before the higher aspects can come through, the lower ones must be aligned to allow them to come through. This becomes self-reinforcing and hence easier, similar to keeping momentum. As you keep them aligned the knowing present in the higher aspects helps to inform your decisions and enhances your understanding of the process and what's going on in your life, potentially leading also to life-style choices that can aid in bringing more alignment about.

[Neil Templar]

Yeah there's a definite progress visible in my dealings with them. If you remember the first one or two, i was frozen in fear of these big cats...now there's only one playing up, and i'm in control of the situation... ;)
Actually, during last night's dreaming, there were three dogs, all of whom were behaving very well...

[Kali's Child]

Hi Neil. Just an alternative view, I guess, but I would interpret this as a fairly successful shadow integration dream. On the other other hand I probably tend to force everything through a Jungian perspective to a fault.

[Korpo]

Hello, Kali's Child.

An out-of-control elemental with unsatisfied needs will expose many qualities you would expect from a Jungian Shadow. The difference here, however, is so big in degree I would say it is one of quality already. When dealing with an elemental that has turned a Shadow it's no longer defiant resistance, it's outright opposition, acting out. This would need time and healing to remedy if one was conscious of it.

Compared to this, Neil's elemental is rather well-behaved, only a little willful. It needed some attention, it got it, situation resolved (three dogs dream). Think of it like a young child - if things get so much out of hand a child starts to act out seemingly randomly, a lot of negativity has been exchanged, gone unprocessed, stored and is now randomly making its way out. Think trauma. What Neil is experiencing is more like the drama we sometimes experience over the sweets at the checkout counter - not a sign of something fundamentally wrong.

So, this is more like routine maintenance that prevents creating a Shadow in the first place.

Cheers,
Oliver

[Kali's Child]

Thanks for the explanation. I don't want to drag this thread off topic so I started a new thread for my questions along these lines.

http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?12514-Discerning-what-isn-t-just-part-of-your-own-psyche&p=101323#post101323

[Beekeeper]

Actually, Oliver, why don't you write a post explaining what you mean by "elementals," since it does cause some confusion at times, especially for newcomers.* If you wanted, you could then link some of Kurt's posts at his webpage for clarification for those who'd like to read more. I'd sticky it or you could just keep the link handy or stick it in ADPedia.

Kali, feel free to write whatever you want on Jung too. We're an eclectic bunch here and various models are welcomed.:D

*I realise you may have already done so, so direct me to it.

[Kali's Child]

I have a pretty good handle on elementals, and have even experienced them OOB. Not in dreams though, that I can recall, or at least that I was able to recognize.

[Beekeeper]

That's good to know because the term does have another usage.;)

[Kali's Child]

Yeah? Well I know about elementals in a hermetic sense, creatures who's nature is air, fire, water or earth. and then in the astral/dream sense there are those compulsive gummy bear type entities that just want to hump your leg and such. Is there another category that I'm missing?

[Beekeeper]

Yes,







[Each of our energy bodies has its own body consciousness, called an elemental–just as our physical body has a body consciousness made up of the individual consciousness of all the cells of the body. This body consciousness is responsible for running the so-called automatic or involuntary processes of that body. In the physical body, these processes involve the breath, the heartbeat, the digestive system, the immune system, and so on.

The body consciousness of the astral body is called the astral elemental. It’s responsible for the automatic processes involving our emotions and desires.

It’s called an elemental because it’s made up of elemental essence, the basic ground of consciousness in nonphysical reality. Thought forms, too, are made up of astral essence. Thus the astral elemental is a thought form.

When under our conscious control, the astral elemental is an effective workhorse in our emotional life and vehicle of consciousness on the astral plane. But it can also resist our attempts to control it, like a horse that tries to throw us, drag us by the reins, or wander off the trail to eat whatever looks interesting by the side. The astral elemental is often responsible for our emotional activity, temper tantrums, and other types of acting out commonly called emotional drama.]

“It may take the whole process of mastering the astral body to bring the astral elemental under complete control. But the first step is being able to restrain desires so that you’re not acting impulsively whenever you want sex by raping someone or feel uncontrollable rage and murder someone.










http://www.kurtleland.com/astral-projection-log/2010/199-the-lowest-four-subplanes-of-the-astral-plane

[Kali's Child]

OK... sounds a bit like the ego, too. That big bundle of habits desires and priorities that I wrestle with 'here' that ends up following me 'there'.

[Beekeeper]

Yeah. There's a mental elemental too. One can get stuck at that level as well as the emotional.

[Kali's Child]

This beast has many heads to remove....

[Neil Templar]

Beek, where did you quote that passage from? Did Oliver do a full description of the Elementals?

[Beekeeper]

No, it's from Kurt's latest newsletter.

[Neil Templar]

Ah, i'll check my email...

[del Dardano Turann]

In the book 'The Way of the Shaman' (Chapter 4) Michael Harner claims that seeing an animal in triplicate indicates a totem animal.