Meditating to TOOL.

[darron]

Have any of you ever meditated to tool, such as 10,000 days. It takes me to a DEEP place. Like the totemic realms. But doing some research some of the music Is quite deep in spiritual meaning and evolution of self.

[Korpo]

Songs from Tool have been giving me TMEs, so there is certainly something there.

[heliac]

I haven't tried meditating to this type of music before. But i did see Tool live at a concert and it was pretty darn entrancing. Especially the visuals that were on stage.

[Sinera]

Tool is ingenious music. And very spiritual. I love them. (There will be a new album out soon :)).

[lamommy78]

I'll have to check it out now. Thanks.

[Korpo]

I remember seeing my first (and only) Tool concert. The singer had chalked himself white, with red spots on his chakras. I wondered why, and then came up with "Must be some kind of energy centers." Where did that come from? ;)

[psionickx]

most of the time i dont get vociferous lest i come off as sophomoric as opposed to contributive.
but i will however point out that if something resonates with you to the extent of adding it after your namesake and then further paid hommage to by addition in signature ought be done with (imo) more certitude and less erasure.

K-ching my there go my troublesome 2¢ .

[darron]

? And what are TMEs korpo

[Korpo]

Hi, darron.

Transcendental Musical Experiences

[heliac]

Which Tool song do you find to be the most TME?

I like stinkfist
http://grooveshark.com/s/Stinkfist/2z8GGy?src=5

Schism's outlandish video is good too
http://youtu.be/UhjG47gtMCo

[Korpo]

Hey, heliac.


"Third Eye" by Tool

There comes a passage when many interwoven patterns come together with an industrial thumping sound. At this point I had a vision of gigantic cogs and wheels turning, a gigantic machine, but in a style that reminds one of the 19th century, like the innards of a clock like Big Ben, I guess. What does this mechanism drive? It was as if this was the inside of the world, and I was for some strange reason reminded of Hinduism and of depictions of the mechanics inside the world.


Today I laid down to listen to an album I've just got in the mail - Tool's "Lateralus." I decided that I wanted to give this mostly new experience the same chance as some classical music I've been listening to - to work its effect on me.
[...]I gave it a fresh chance and exposed myself to the whole 75 minutes in one go.

I can say that within short time I experienced what I call "inner light" - an illumination that comes from downward up and starts to fill my visual field. I sometimes get this during meditation, and it came on quite noticeably after a while. The effect came on and receded, sometimes I would experience wandering blobs and sometimes this uniform light, that would build every once in a while. The whole duration of the album was interesting. There was a variety of effects happening behind my closed eyes, and I observed with interest the different qualities of when energy built, when it receded, and so on.

[darron]

Sounds pretty awesome korpo, oh and heliac my tme came from various songs like vicarious, jambi, torn right in two, pretty much the whole 10000 days album start to finish meditating to it, third eye, and probably a few more.

[Sinera]

Just today when I was jogging through my beautiful forest with my player on (shuffle mode as usual) this song came on, giving me goosebumps as always (especially around the part when he shouts 'Give me my wings! ... Priceless!). I almost had forgotten how much I loved that song back then when it came out and listened to it over and over again.

It's also a very spiritual song. That's why I think it fits in a forum like this (even more in a Tool thread ;)).

It is about the (life and) death of the singer's mother, Judith Marie. It also touches upon the gap between organised religion (in its dogmatic and ritualised way) and spirituality. He praises his mother (who lived a faithful life) for the good example she gave when she had to endure a life of suffering before she died, to represent the core of this kind of spirituality, the inner truth (God within). The singer opposes it to the amount of hypocrism displayed by the custodians of organised religion (which disgusted the singer). This relationship for me is so brilliantly paraphrased in this single line of the song:

"You were the light and the way they'll only read about."

If it wasn't about the great music as well, this phrase alone makes this song a priceless classic for me.

For who really doesn't know it or wants to listen to it again, here's the song on YT with the lyrics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-HRa06KVA4

I also would like to copy here what the uploader wrote about the meaning and background of the song lyrics (no, it's not me, but I mainly like what he says):

They're about Maynard James Keenan's mother, Judith Marie. Judith was paralyzed when Maynard was 11. She stayed paralyzed until she died 10,000 days later ("10,000 days in the fire is long enough; you're going home"). She kept faith in God the whole time.
The first song is more about Judith dying, and then Maynard accepting it and his mother's beliefs, which often conflicted with Maynard's. The second song is more about Judith's life, beliefs, etc. in general, and Maynard accepting them. The lyrics are pretty self-explanatory. Lots of Christian references.
I'll say one more thing. To say that Maynard is an atheist is something that would literally undo every possibly intelligent thought you've ever had. Maynard OBVIOUSLY believes in spirituality, a higher power, etc."
- cardinalbaseballer5 @Youtube

here's the lyrics:

10.000 Days (Wings Pt. 2)

Listen to the tales and romanticize,
How we'd follow the path of the hero.
Boast about the day when the rivers overrun.
How we rise to the height of our halo.

Listen to the tales as we all rationalize
Our way into the arms of the savior,
Feigning all the trials and the tribulations;
None of us have actually been there.

Not like you.

Ignorant siblings in the congregation
Gather around spewing sympathy,
Spare me.

None of them can even hold a candle up to you.
Blinded by choice, these hypocrites won't see.

But, enough about the collective Judas.
Who could deny you were the one who
Illuminated your little piece of the divine?

And this little light of mine, a gift you passed on to me;
I'm gonna let it shine to guide you safely on your way,
Your way home ...

Oh, what are they going to do when the lights go down
Without you to guide them all to Zion?
What are they going to do when the rivers overrun
Other than tremble incessantly?

High is the way, but all eyes are upon the ground.
You were the light and the way they'll only read about.
I only pray, Heaven knows when to lift you out.

Ten thousand days in the fire is long enough;
You're going home.

You're the only one who can hold your head up high,
Shake your fists at the gates saying:
"I've come home now!
Fetch me the spirit, the son, and the father.
Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.
It's time now!
My time now!
Give me my, give me my wings!"

You are the light and way that they will only read about.

Set as I am in my ways and my arrogance,
(With the) burden of proof tossed upon the believers.
You were my witness, my eyes, my evidence,
Judith Marie, unconditional one.

Daylight dims leaving cold fluorescents.
Difficult to see you in this light.

Please forgive this bold suggestion, but
Should you see your Maker's face tonight,
Look Him in the eye, look Him in the eye, and tell Him:
"I never lived a lie, never took a life, but surely saved one.
Hallelujah, it's time for you to bring me home."

- Tool, 10.000 Days, 2006

Well, usually, I do not listen to spiritual rock music at all (except vor DEE's several projects who is brilliant in his very own way), but this is just what I would listen to if I needed a dose of 'inspiring' lyrics, too (needless to say that I'd listen anyway to Tool for the music alone).

[darron]

God those lyrics are so epic, And deep. Have u ever read about they're drummers spiritual experiences, its amazing his drumming is perfectly based on sacred geometry, and he is a mystic, plus his timing is impeccable, almost as if he can warp time. Lol.

so good to hear from other fans.

[Neil Templar]

Ok i'm officially hooked, beautiful!

[darron]

heck yea.

[-asalantu-]

¿TOOL' music allows access to extended capabilites like those associated to Mozart Effect?
My best regards
Ángel

[darron]

very possible asalantu

[Sinera]

Danny Carey, their mystical occult drummer, has quite an interesting website (see further below). I was a drummer myself (and yes, of course he is one of my fav drummers) so all the stuff about his drumming is interesting to me, anyway. But there are also a lot about his magical / occult views, which are also reflected in his drumming.

Quote Wiki:
"Religion and the occult Although Carey has not officially aligned himself with any particular school of philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy) or religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion), he has projected a deep interest in and understanding for the magical arts and sciences, among them various occult teachings. Enochian symbols, geometric designs, and special symbolic percussive devices are featured on and in his drum kit. He is also a collector of First Edition Aleister Crowley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley) books as well as books by one of Crowley's more innovative students, Kenneth Grant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Grant).
Geometric designs
Carey has laid claim to various drumming techniques that use sacred geometric figures such as the unicursal hexagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicursal_hexagram). The final product is very recognizable, fluent drumming, although to him it is much more: the official Tool website claims that Danny uses drumming as a ritual similar to occult rituals,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Carey#cite_note-1) with purposes varying from spiritual exploration to "a gateway [which] summoned a daemon he has contained…that has been delivering short parables similar to passages within The Book of Lies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Lies_(Crowley))". Another geometric reference from the website was the inclusion of Nothing in This Book Is True… by Bob Frissell (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bob_Frissell&action=edit&redlink=1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Carey#cite_note-2) on the band's recommended reading list, a book that deals with sacred geometry and the evolution of human consciousness.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Carey#cite_note-3)"
- Wikipedia

http://www.dannycarey.org/

He has a FAQ answering questions. Here's an answer to a question regarding 'evil' occultism:

"Q: When I asked my teacher if he had heard your playing he said that he doesn't condone your negative message. I responded that in my ten years of listening to your music I have yet to find anything negative and asked him if it was because of your occult fascination. He said it was and that all occult is evil/"satanic". This bothers me because this is a man who has been studying rhythm his whole life and cant come to appreciate what you play because of some conviction. What would you say?
A: Unfortunately, I have found that there is not much you can say to people like your teacher. For some, knowledge is a scary thing that could tear down the walls of their little fortress they have spent many years building and reinforcing around themselves, so its much easier to label something as "evil" rather than have their security jeopardized, and leave themselves vulnerable to infinite chaos. I have found that courage is always rewarded when trying to find truth and beauty for what it is, rather than what someone has told you it is. I say always trust in your own divinity and your explorations will not go unfulfilled, and by the way, the word occult simply means hidden. "
- D. Carey
rings true to me :clap:

[-asalantu-]

For some, knowledge is a scary thing that could tear down the walls of their little fortress they have spent many years building and reinforcing around themselves, so its much easier to label something as "evil" rather than have their security jeopardized, and leave themselves vulnerable to infinite chaos.

For me, this matches well with profile of people member of Holy Inquisition.

Sincerely,
Ángel

[darron]

loving that website

[Korpo]

I'm having my first opportunity to listen to 10,000 days tonight. Saving it up for it actually because there's no listening like the first time.

[Korpo]

Hmmm. Some disappointment there. The first two songs, "Vicarious" and "Jambi", did not excite me at all, nor trigger any special responses. "Wings for Marie" part 1 and 2, however, were very good and also gave me some imagery, IIRC.

[Sinera]

Hmmm. Some disappointment there. The first two songs, "Vicarious" and "Jambi", did not excite me at all, nor trigger any special responses. "Wings for Marie" part 1 and 2, however, were very good and also gave me some imagery, IIRC.

Well, one shouldn't judge it all by spiritual or meditative responses one gets. After all it is also "just" high-quality and very special (progressive, alternative) metal music to listen to. So one does not necessarily have to possess a metaphysical streak for Tool's music to enjoy it (IMHO). (Personally I wouldn't meditate with it anyway. I use more monotone binaural sounds for meditation, it doesn't work any other way for me.)

How about this one, Korpo? This always gives me the creeps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pS9J-UM1HY

I love Native American Chants.

[Korpo]

After all it is also "just" high-quality and very special (progressive, alternative) metal music to listen to.

Felt rather like "contrived." I don't need a spiritual response to it - I simply did not enjoy these two songs very much. Trying too hard. After 14 minutes of actually paying my full attention to them, something which I also did for the "Lateralus" album, I'd say these two don't have the same quality.

[Sinera]

Felt rather like "contrived." I don't need a spiritual response to it - I simply did not enjoy these two songs very much. Trying too hard. After 14 minutes of actually paying my full attention to them, something which I also did for the "Lateralus" album, I'd say these two don't have the same quality.
I see, yeah, I agree, Lateralus is also better in my view. As regards Jambi I agree, too, I did not like it too much, either.

What I like is the persistent 5/4 groove of Vicarious though. Also I remember that live they did a great laser show on that (during the instrumental parts). And I like the critical message that is conveyed with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hii17sjSwfA

Vicariously I, live while the whole world dies
You all need it too, don't lie

Why can't we just admit it?
Why can't we just admit it?

We won't give pause until the blood is flowing
Neither the brave nor bold
The writers of stories sold
We won't give pause until the blood is flowing

I need to watch things die
From a good safe distance

[Korpo]

I gladly admit that part was definitely better, but it was almost hidden within a 7 minute song that was not a 7 minute song. Will surely listen more tonight, I think I got 7 more tracks.

[darron]

Aww love those 2 songs.

[Korpo]

When I originally bought "Lateralus" (a year ago) and found that I enjoyed it very much, I also considered buying "10,000 Days". I looked up the album and found a review stating that the author of the lyrics wanted to depart from more spiritual lyrics to more personal ones for this album, driven by some personal experiences, IIRC. I read into the lyrics to see how that turned out and found them largely judgemental and not very appealing, so I didn't buy the album.

I now had a chance to listen and had actually forgotten about that past assessment mostly. However, given the nature of some of the songs I was quickly reminded of it. I can only speculate, but many of them sound like a belief system crisis or maybe a "dark night of the soul." They are indeed a departure from former lyrics, and to my opinion the whole album, while certainly having some good points, has been less enjoyable than previous ones.

All Tool albums had good and bad points, but for this one the balance has shifted to be much less in its favor than for the others. Both AEnima and Lateralus were masterworks, and "Third Eye" for example is a thoroughly energy-driven masterpiece that recreates a notion of primal energy in part from noise.

One can only wish that they find the ability to reconnect to what enabled them to come that fear and move beyond this point. It would be interesting to know if the music they made can be further transformed and expanded upon or if "this is it." Some parts of "10,000 Days" give me hope for that.

BTW, Volgerle, "Vicarious" is for me a good example of a song that has certainly enough quality to be listened to but is so judgemental in message that it is grating - like many bits of the album. Like this:


Credulous at best your desire to believe in / Angels in the hearts of men
Pull your head on out your hippie haze and give a listen / Shouldn't have to say it all again
The universe is hostile, so impersonal / Devour to survive... so it is, so it's always been("Vicarious" by Tool)

That's more lashing out to me than anything. Mind you, I still listen to it, I just find it a severe regression from their other output.

[darron]

Oh, true true. Although poor guy was going though a rough time, ive been there to.

[Summerlander]

I love Tool. Their music is awesome. I love Parabola, Third Eye and Stinkfist! Great stuff. A Perfect Circle have some good stuff too. I've never meditated to any of their music though.

[darron]

II like a perfect circle, good stuff.

[psionickx]

"A child's rhyme stuck in my head
It said that life is but a dream
I've spent so many years in question
to find I've known this all along


Prying open my third eye


So good to see you once again
I thought that you were hiding
And you thought that I had run away"
220


this image was all the ubiquitous rage when 3rd eye came out.

[darron]

Yea pretty trippy isn't it, seen it quite alot here and there.

[Korpo]

What keeps on fascinating is what they do with noise, distortion and feedback. Pieces I keep on relistening for their unique sound are for example the beginnings of "Faaip De Oaid", "Lost Keys" or "Rosetta Stoned". I also like to listen "Viginti Tres" or "Mantra".

When it comes to the energy buildup in music, "Third Eye" and "Triad" are very remarkable.

[darron]

I love rosetta stoned. I agree even the guitar feedback is placed In all the right areas.

[Summerlander]

Tool is the shizzle! I can't think of any bad songs by Tool. A Perfect Circle is good too. I never meditate to any kind of music but I can tell you that I had and OOBE and could hear APC's "Pet" playing. Then I had to learn to play it. I changed the tuning to D,A.D,G,B,E in order to play it.

[darron]

That's awesome, and I totally agree.
didn't know u played man, I do to,

[Summerlander]

Cool! You are probably better than me though! LOL!

[Sinera]

I was a drummer but I doubt I could ever have played the 'magickal' beats and fills that Carrey plays (I never tried tough). Too intricate stuff. He doesn't play fast like other technically oriented drummers, but it's metrically so really challenging, and in its very own and peculiar way so much more intricate and 'odd' (in a double sense: rhythmically and by 'feel') than that of other "prog" bands such as Rush or Dream Theater, if you ask me.

[Korpo]

I have mused about Tool's music and wanted to share some observations, for whatever they are worth:

I have identified three elements that seem very much to define the band beyond the usual - rhythmic variation, extending the definition of sound as music, and the energetic quality of the music. This is mostly pertaining to the music itself, even though it is not fully separate from the lyrics or choice of topic.

Tool introduces many interesting and intricate variations on rhythm patterns, but there are times when these rhythmic patterns actually become so dominant in a song that they lessen it, not enhance it. Example I am thinking of here are "Jambi" and "Lateralus". Their titles already seem to mark them as "brainbirths", as they both derive from rhythmic and mathematical patterns to a certain degree. This is mental body territory, as the mental body contains a tendency to apply an idea over and over again and take it to extremes.

"Lateralus" seems stuck together for that reason that it is dominated by an idea. This is not meant to dispute the quality of the composition, but the song itself does for me not measure up to others from the same albums. It is an interesting intellectual exercise, and in Kurt's terms would exemplify the "Thinking Mind composer", deriving from the sixth chakra or the mental body. The exact classification would be "Middle 6 Formalist", as the intellectual form of the song is dominant.

Oppose this with "Third Eye", which is essentially an "Upper 6 Visionary" piece, not only by name but also by energetic and musical feel. All the musical elements of Tool's style are strongly present within the song without anyone dominating so much to disrupt the flow of the song itself. It employs innovative use of sound and rhythm, but the quality is different, at times raw, but breathing and very alive.

Both songs can be fun but are not of the same quality.

"Jambi" actually starts with an effective demonstration of two different styles of composition opposed to each other. The initial intricate rhythmic variation might garner some interest, but it is basically relegated to the background the very minute the bass player introduces a melodic element. The rhythmic element moves to the background and is rendered irrelevant in comparison. You could take it away and in my opinion not lose much at this point, it remains disconnected.

Notice, how every time the bass player can chose to add and enhance in Jambi to the places where he is (mostly?) absent. This also shows a musical and compositional talent beyond the actual skill in playing the instrument. Even though the rhythm section present with guitar and drums is strongly present, the bass sets all the accents that make the piece, essentially saving it from being overtaken too much by the rhythm. The piece shines every time whenever it is taken away from the original rhythmic idea, too.

The quality of unclean and unusual sounds as part of the musical experiences can be seen for example in "Third Eye" (extensive use of distortion and feedback), "Parabol" (reverberation and a chanting-like effect), "Lost Keys" (bell-like clean feedback), "Rosetta Stoned" (dirty feedback) or for example "Viginti Tres" (studio effect variations). Here the quality of the sound itself adds an enchanting or enticing element. It is not just a gimmick (think: Rage Against the Machine solos, and hey, I like them), but a means to a specific end that is part of the whole experience.

I have to admit that the sound variations in some pieces for me form a huge attraction to Tool and also an element that makes them largely unique. We've come a long way since Jimi Hendrix' "Third Stone from the Sun", and experiment is not only an art unto itself, but becomes part of the composition (which is much harder to do than just fooling around with sound).

The final quality I want to discuss is the ebb and flow present in Tool's songs. It is a quality that makes music "breathe in and out", moving along a natural pattern of variation of intensity. Kurt's classification of this associates it with the seventh chakra, and this would make it possibly also the domain of the causal body or soul. This is not present in all Tool music, but it shades in and out and makes their best pieces.

It also gives the music its energetic impact. This makes "Reflection", "Triad", "Third Eye" or "10,000 Days (Wings for Marie Pt. 2)" so powerful. They accumulate and disperse energetic intensity in ways that seem just right in themselves. It isn't hard to tell these are my favorites as they stand out so much even among the opus of this band. They're also truly together as a unit on these, everybody adds to the whole.

[darron]

ahhh, a very deep analysis. I like it, thank you for this, but who is kurt.

[Korpo]

Kurt Leland. He wrote a book about music and its spiritual relevance called "Music and the Soul".

[darron]

Thank you, I'm gona check that out. :)

[Sinera]

also check out his latest on Astral Projection and spirutal development ("The Multidimensional Human") which isn't bad at all :)

[darron]

:D I will.

[darron]

Hey Korpo, been analyzing what u said, I find that the vocal/drum only parts of lateralus invoke a deep tribal feel, almost a deep earth chakra, I find third eye, triad and the like to be if a vision was put into sound, or maybe the sound is a "vision" itself.

[Korpo]

Hey, darron.

"Triad" is especially interesting as it seems energetically to come from a similar pattern like the Mahavishnu Orchestra's "Dawn" - it's built on a repeating pattern, but every cycle through the pattern it seems to collect more energy until it "breaks loose" and flows. (Though "Triad" has a "dip" in it.) "Triad" has a very driven kind of feel, it has the stomping quality of tribal drumming maybe but mixed with the driven quality of industrial/electronic music, harder than the former but not as machine-like as the later.

"Third Eye" then instead works more like building and dissipating energy/noise, only to recede back into another pattern or quiet part. I heard this song live, and it gives you the impression of "one more" - it comes to rest and then picks you up again and leads to another sensation.

Tool in my opinion interacts with a rather broad range of chakras in its musical content. Rhythmic variation is richly used (1st chakra), Tension and release and harmony are also masterly used (2nd chakra). Unsurprising for a band also exploring noise, distortion, screaming and other musical tools, the third chakra is present in the elements of dissonance and volume.

The fourth chakra's musical element is melody, but while Tool is melodic, some pieces rather indulge in rhythms or leave most melodic elements either to the singer or to the bass line, like "Jambi". In a way that is hard to explain it also does not comprise the full 4th chakra as Tool does not explore the full potential for human feeling. The higher aspects of the 4th chakra and most of the 5th chakra are absent - there's no real uptempo, joyous, simply for fun parts. The elements Kurt has termed "Elation", "Contentment", "Joy" or "Exuberance" seem to be most notably absent from their music.

The sixth chakra is strongly present - mostly in its formal or visionary aspects. This is where most Tool songs are rooted, and this is also strongly related to the mental body. This ranges from "too much of a thought experiment" qualities to what you have described as "sound as vision". Some of their best pieces then finally take on some qualities of the 7th center.

Oliver

[darron]

I agree.
You should listen to the humbling river by puscifer .

[embrace]

Tools is pretty intense attention-grabbing music - + Reply to Thread (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/newreply.php?p=100563&noquote=1)I probably wouldn't be able to meditate to it.