Astral beating. Possessing NEGS show themselves.

[Jake]

I don’t want to play anymore! I am right back to where I started. Amidst thousands of memories of fully conscious OBE’s,,, I am back at the beginning.

For those who don’t know me,,, My name is Jake. I am a natural astral projector. I have written a book about the experiences in my life, and I am an avid study of OBE and Astral Projection. I have read virtually every piece of literature on the subject, and attended Roberts P.A.P.I. last year. My projections are spontaneous,, not so much RANDOM. But spontaneous. I keep a journal and a list of goals. I do energy work EVERY DAY, and I meditate regularly. I have become quite sophisticated with my knowledge of OBE and the astral, and I find myself explaining it to others, quite often. I am a moderator at another forum site that deals with Alternative Media and Whistleblowers.

My problem manifested the day that I started reading PPSD, by Robert!

I used to have, (what I would call) Bully dreams. Dreams in which I was constantly being chased, harassed, tricked, hurt, confused etc,,, by a group of unknown assailants. They would often come along and ruin my OBE’s or LD’s. They take over the dream/astral event and begin ‘dragging me down’. This has been ongoing for a long time, and I have always thought that they were personal barriers that I had put up for myself.

Well, last month I started reading PPSD. A couple of days later, the following Astral Event occurred;

I woke suddenly from a deep sleep. It was about 3:00am and I was fully alert and conscious, trying to remember the dream that I was having. As I sat on the edge of the bed, contemplating whether or not to grab my journal,,, My front door was suddenly kicked in and 3 large black men with DEEP South African Accents rushed into the house and grabbed me and started beating me and dragging me out of the house. It was so sudden, I did not have a chance to react. My wife was screaming and my dogs were going nuts. They dragged me out of the house,,, I was being beaten and dragged and thrown around. These men were VERY angry and they were NOT going to let me go. I cannot describe the beating,,, they were trying to murder me. I found myself being dragged down a corridor of a tunnel or cave, as it was dark and the walls were brutally solid. I was being constantly beaten and thrown around. I realized, at this point, that this was not a physical event because they dragged me out of the house and now I was immediately in the tunnel. This was an astral event that I was NOT in control of. I had thought to myself that ‘it was going to be okay, this was as astral event, and I will wake from it soon’! But things just got worse. They finally threw me onto a rock slab. My body was dangling over the edge of a large pit. The most fierce and angry one of them yelled at me,,, “NOW YOU WILL BE WASHED IN MY BLOOD”!!! Just then, large amounts of blood and flesh were poured over me. LOTS of it! It seemed like buckets and buckets of blood and small bits of flesh. It was still very warm and I could taste it! My body was limp with exhaustion and pain. I realized that I would be murdered soon. I could feel the final blow as I phased back into the physical. I was still sitting on the side of the bed. I collapsed into a lump on the floor. I was exhausted and could not move. I remembered it all very clearly.

This is, by far, the most devastating thing that has ever happened to me, physical or non-physical.


The core image is my own. Ie,,, the bully dreams. But this was NOT the same. These things have been with me a looooong time. They are getting pretty angry with me.

I have been having some pretty wonderful experiences with the ‘white light’ that will enter my ‘space’ once I have requested it. This is a deep trance practice that has been getting quite wonderful and amazing.

I can only assume that this is what they were talking about. Immersing myself in the ‘white light’ is pissing them off!!! I did not know that they were there!! They clearly did NOT appreciate my love of the light, and now they have shown themselves.

Core images have been corrupted, and now I have a full blown negative entity problem, complete with the incubus phenomenon. Sexual, deviant, FORCED dreaming and sexual sensations.

Now that I have identified the NEGs,,, I full expect a BATTLE to ensue. I do not give up!!

Has anyone dealt with this level of Neg before? I do not know what kind of countermeasures to put op now. These NEGS know my inside and out. It will be quite an experience, and I will need advice and help. I will keep this forum updated as the story unfolds.

Please!!! Someone tell me that it is possible to get rid of these ****ers!!!

[sandrofabres]

Hi, I am a new member and was planning only post after read what exists in the forum, but I open the page and foun this post. So, I am sorry if I am writing some innapropriated thing and maybe disrespecting the rules of forum, but I need to say: here in Brazil, this kind of negs are the more commom. The african religions uses this kind of entities to heavy work, which means: fight against incarnated people (living people). When I was "Living on light", and so with a lot of energy available, it was commom be kidnapped by a very strong black people ( like a giant black bodybuilders, the "Lee Haney" style, and naked....). It never happened in a consicous OBE, only in dreams. Usually I found myself in some desert place, and with half a dozen or even a dozen of these beings watching me, like they wanted block my escape. They never attacked my anyway, nor even touched me, but they were obviously kidnapping me and I only need waited to end of situation. But in that time I was member of group that face this negs all weeks, in a awake state, so, they problably would love to cause some revenge while I was dreaming unconscious.
They are very strong, almost like a living person when you are in their element, because thier energy come from blood sacrifices ( which is commom here, because the afro religions. We are always walking on the chickens left in the crossroads). Usually the stronger attacks are friday and saturday night, probably because it is when this sacrifices are made, and because the weekend parties. A lot of people using alcohol and drugs let a lot of energy available to this kind of beins and their organizations. How fight with them? Well, we only fight against them like we would can in the physical realm, using any tool that you can materialize in astral. In direct combat their energy don't last much, but the ours last. So, the stronger, usually the incarnated, wins. But sometimes they seems made from iron, and in this case you need be very creative...If you wants sleep protected, usually a magic circle solves the problem....but it will destroy the fun too....
Well, we did it in this way and worked. I don't know if anyone can do it, because I never before found person that do anything beyond pray or ask help, but I suppose so.
Again, sorry if I wrote something disrespectfull. I wrote quickly, maybe there are a lot of language mistakes and some ruler invasion. I only tried to be usefull, (and not be banned).
Sandro Fabres
Brazil

[psionickx]

Sorry, I dont have anything to add here in terms of advice , just however a few pointers


My problem manifested the day that I started reading PPSD, by Robert!!!!
I'm just going to point out that he doesn't implicate this as the trigger - only as how the events transpired chronologically.


The core image is my own , i.e the bully dreams
that i quoted so that it meets you in reflection.




It will be quite an experience, and I will need advice

I full expect a BATTLE to ensue

will keep this forum updated as the story unfolds.
Never paint you own "story" ,much less reaffirm it by writing.
i suggest going through this subforum - most of your issues will meet good input.

[CFTraveler]

Hi Jake.
I have a few ideas about your experiences, however maybe instead of telling you what I think I suggest you do some more reading- I suggest as soon as Kurt Leland finishes his new edition (ebook) of Otherwhere, you get it and read it, and I think you should take a gander at my journal (I'll see where I can point you at) so you see how I dealt with very similar circumstances.
All I can tell you is that with all the experience you have had (I read your ebook quite a long time ago, prob. when you first wrote it, so I know you are well versed in the nature of the phenomenon) but I can't quite remember if you have gone through the progression of astral events as many of us have (I can't remember the details)-
Just remember that
1- When you project you sometimes have experiences that are happening to someone else- so this scary thing may have actually been happening to someone else, and the state of mind you were in when you read PPSD may have put you in some sort of resonance with the original victim of the attack- as sandrofabres indicated, these things do happen in some places in the world, and projection is not only to some mind realm- sometimes it is to someone else's body or energetic expansion.
2- When you get to certain phases of your own spiritual evolution (for lack of a better term) many things happen and your higherself/guides/ facilitators place you in situations that you must face and transcend, and the experience you had is very similar to one that happened to me when I started projecting on purpose, which actually sent me on on a specific learning path- which turned out to be part of my evolution.

[Tutor]

· Understand Physics as it applies to us here on Earth – Study the laws that govern it…
· Gravity – Understand Gravity
· Understand Directions – Up, Down, In, Out and Side to Side…
· Meet and Greet what comes at you – if at all possible in a welcoming way – this is the Shaolin way…
· Base your foundation on ultimate truths and your own self expression – use your system as your vehicle…
· Understand Movement – first your own then in harmony and disharmony with outside forces…
· Seek to understand who you are – this will be your greatest weapon…
· Teach the system in its whole – apply your self-expression – display your self-expression – explain your self-expression – but never forsake the system for your self-expression when teaching…
· Never say Never – Never say Always – Do not always say Never or Always…
· Understand where your center is – Be able to apply your center…
· Understand that the working environment is bigger than your center – Learn that
· Understand that others do not play by the same rules that you do – Is your understanding and your rules applicable to all that enters the playing field…
· Understand- or at the very least find an awareness of your limitations – physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually…
· Study the human form – learn how it bends and where it does not…
· Study human nature – this is the highest form of Kung Fu
· Seek empathy first…
· A position of self-defense is the best posture…
· Face the energy – Face your fears…
· A system’s sole purpose is to enable its diligent student to rid himself of needing it – In the midst of the journey it is discarded…
· Breathe…Breathe deeply

-Yanshui

in addition: once discarded via "your greatest weapon", also is the weapon of self-understanding forgivingly become peace. Thou sojourning pilgrim hath become I AM. Who am I? I am my own worst enemy, to be understood as I am - not how i have been, or might be if i could just change my self, but as i am in my present ways, forgivingly.

[CFTraveler]

My favorite part:

· A system’s sole purpose is to enable its diligent student to rid himself of needing it – In the midst of the journey it is discarded…


-Yanshui

[Tutor]

Hello CFT,

yes..."in the midst". not an end from a beginning, but rather, in the midst of.

[sandrofabres]

Well, I forgot to mention one detail that, at least for me it was
obvious, but after reading the comments of others I realized that people from other countries may not be familiar with this:
This type of neg usually has nothing personal against you, usually they only hears about you. They
are mercenaries, a kind of "soldier", very useful for their strength, available to anyone that knows how hiring them, and
hired by someone who has something against you or against your spiritual work. So it is useless to
think: "I don not know those guys." In cases where this type
of neg is involved, the causative agent of the attack is always
hidden. Maybe you tried to "open the eyes" of someone that seemed so blindly attached to some ridiculous system of beliefs, but this kind of belief usually keep theirs disciples about strict astral vigilance, what explain their passivity, more than simple brainwash, and so they noted you intentions with one of their fellows. It is only one of several situations that can cause this kind of attack. Personally I don t believe that it happens more in a country than others, because the human nature is basically the same, wich differs is the how your system of beliefs affect what you see in astral. I mean: the same beings used in this situation can be saw in a very different form when saw by a person with a radically dualistic system of beliefs.

[heliac]

Hi Jake,

The same thing happened to me when i read some of psd. I started getting neg related OBEs. It's not a coincidence. In my case and possibly yours, part of this occurrence is living someone else's experience of reality by learning through content.

Also, i think some people are more sensitive than others to this.You may be bringing ideas of reality as content from the book into your own experience.

I had to put the book down, and move on, i'm not self aware enough to manage content downloading into the astral good enough yet. The content doesn't have to be exact references from the book. It can be ideas too. If you've owned up to the idea that the astral is something you will need to be on guard about that may increase the opportunity of neg related experiences to happen.

[psionickx]

some sort of resonance with the original victim of the attack- as sandofabres indicated, these things do happen in some places in the world, and projection is not only to some mind realm- sometimes it is to someone else's body or energetic expansion.

Extremely polished insight.



They are mercenaries, a kind of "soldier", very useful for their strength, available to anyone who knows how to hire them, and hired by someone who has something against you or against your spiritual work. So it is useless to think: "I don not know those guys."
Years ago when i was working with servitors (chaos majik (http://www.spiralnature.com/magick/chaos/what-is-chaos-magick.html)) i was told with implicit clarity by all authority on subject to add a "destructive clause" and interlace into the entity's DNA to initiate a self-detonating sequence the second an autocratic-sentience was suspected.
This was ,mind you , something that started of as a simple generic pre-programmed-animated sigil/elemental/thaughtform that gained momentum to self-perpetuating conciousness.
..frankly I suspect occult battles are far more common than are suspect of.

(there are more things horatio between heaven and earth :twisted: )

:arrow:Servitors (http://www.spiralnature.com/magick/chaos/servcreation.html).

[sandrofabres]

Extremely polished insight.

..frankly I suspect occult battles are far more common than are suspect of.

(there are more things horatio between heaven and earth :twisted: )

:arrow:Servitors (http://www.spiralnature.com/magick/chaos/servcreation.html).
I don't know how this works in another countries, but here in Brazil there are several organized groups in each city, working against Negs, below a greater organization on astral plane. In this book ( that sadly has a absurd price in Amazon) you can read the theory, techniques and work journals of one specific kind of work, called Apometry, exactly like is made here in several cities. Nor all groups work in that way, but those that choose do it has usually much more quick and objective results.
http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Matter-New-Horizons-Medicine/dp/1561840831/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310133903&sr=1-1-fkmr1

[psionickx]

Nor all groups work in that way, but those that choose do it has usually much more quick and objective results.
there's no doubt to my mind Umbanda, Macumba, Spiritism,Obeah,Winti and Candomblé house extremely potent sentience (that im not debating :D) ...i do personally know of someone who was befell with quite the misfortune after rites of invocation.The Orixás (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/wiki/Orisha) pantheon however (as a study) is quite fascinating.

[sandrofabres]

Your observation "I am not debating" alerted me to explain:

I don't have any religion, and I never had, even when child. I am expliciting this to avoid that you can "oh, he is Brazilian, so his religion is THIS or THAT, so we need to be carefull to don't be disrespectful with his religion/beliefs, etc."
I don't like much of religions, not beliefs. I only respect experiences, methods and results, not beliefs. Only in the case where I don't have none experience or ways to check it, I will choose some belief, because I prefer SOME answer than NONE answer. And even so I was able to work with persons and spiritual guides inside of systems of beliefs on wich I had even a serious prejudice ( more than simple doubts). Nor they closed the doors to me, despite my cepticism about their theories and explanations, nor me to them, because in practical matters I only respect results, and I had them.

[CFTraveler]

there's no doubt to my mind Umbanda, Macumba, Spiritism,Obeah,Winti and Candomblé house extremely potent sentience (that im not debating :D) ...i do personally know of someone who was befell with quite the misfortune after rites of invocation.The Orixás (http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/wiki/Orisha) pantheon however (as a study) is quite fascinating. In PR we call them Orishas. FWIW.

[sandrofabres]

Same sound. The pronounce of that "X" is like your "SH",in Shine, not like "X" of eXportation..

[Jake]

I appreciate the comments and advice. Meditating is very peaceful for me. Energy work is a part of life, for me. I have been working to balance my life, and in every way, live a more spiritual life. I have had many fear based OBEs and Astral experiences. I have learned alot from them, and I still do. This was not the same. This was random and 'out of the blue'. Very vivid and I fought all day to get my strength back.


Never paint you own "story" ,much less reaffirm it by writing.
i suggest going through this subforum - most of your issues will meet good input.

I like what you say here,, thank you. You are right, I do sometimes 'paint' my own story. I will consider your advice.


When I was "Living on light", and so with a lot of energy available, it was commom be kidnapped by a very strong black people ( like a giant black bodybuilders, the "Lee Haney" style, and naked....). It never happened in a consicous OBE, only in dreams.


I am fascinated! I have never heard of it before. I have been doing some deep trance meditating that involves requesting a 'being of light, to come into my presence.' They are amazing! It is the best 'pre-OBE' practice that I have ever tried. The energy is always amazing and wonderful. I did not do this for a while, maybe a couple of weeks, and then I started reading PPSD and then the 'attack' occurred.



Again, sorry if I wrote something disrespectfull.
Sandro Fabres
Brazil

Not at all! :):):):) I am going to read up on this type of phenomenon. Thanks for your input.


Hi Jake.
I have a few ideas about your experiences, however maybe instead of telling you what I think I suggest you do some more reading- I suggest as soon as Kurt Leland finishes his new edition (ebook) of Otherwhere, you get it and read it, and I think you should take a gander at my journal (I'll see where I can point you at) so you see how I dealt with very similar circumstances.
All I can tell you is that with all the experience you have had (I read your ebook quite a long time ago, prob. when you first wrote it, so I know you are well versed in the nature of the phenomenon) but I can't quite remember if you have gone through the progression of astral events as many of us have (I can't remember the details)-
Just remember that
1- When you project you sometimes have experiences that are happening to someone else- so this scary thing may have actually been happening to someone else, and the state of mind you were in when you read PPSD may have put you in some sort of resonance with the original victim of the attack- as sandofabres indicated, these things do happen in some places in the world, and projection is not only to some mind realm- sometimes it is to someone else's body or energetic expansion.
2- When you get to certain phases of your own spiritual evolution (for lack of a better term) many things happen and your higherself/guides/ facilitators place you in situations that you must face and transcend, and the experience you had is very similar to one that happened to me when I started projecting on purpose, which actually sent me on on a specific learning path- which turned out to be part of my evolution.

Thank you, CFT. I didn't really think about the 'higher self, lessons' aspect of all of this. You bring up a really good point. I will meditate on that! Thank you.

I will try not to draw too many conclusions about this experience. (I should know better by now,,, :()

[sandrofabres]

Well, only to be sure that we are talking about the same phenomen. When I say "Living on Light", I am talking about this:
http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/breathe_light/breatharianism.html

[psionickx]

I only respect experiences, methods and results, not beliefs
ditto.

[Beekeeper]

This is an interesting thread. Around the time I started NEW and conscious projecting, I had a similar series of dreams. Only once were African perpetrators involved. This was violence that was directed from a shaman towards a young African man that he betrayed and dropped down a well. I observed at a distance of several metres, across a lava flow. It doesn't sound horrendous but the atmosphere was thick with a sense of evil and I had deep understanding of each player's feelings. It was such a terrible abuse of power and the shaman was a true psychopath.

In another, I was an Afro-American woman. I physically fought with a man who had abducted me after I'd witnessed his crime, biting and punching, knowing he intended to murder me. At the time, I posted something about it because there was a thread about a lobster like entity that Aunt Claire's group had identified. During the fight, the man shoved "my" face"into a lobster like creature and I heard it crunch. What I didn't mention is the manner in which he murdered "me". I was a little too embarrassed to mention it but I'm less so now - it was a stab to the genitals, an upwards thrust.

The other abduction dream was by masked men. They bound me and left me alive in a coffin. It became a sleep paralysis experience after that.

[sandrofabres]

When I was working with that spiritualistic group, our work was what here is called "disobsession work", or "disobsessive...". We did not received any physical clients, the spiritual guides bring to us the specific group of negs we need face that day, sometimes 2 or 3 different kinds of negs, in turns. Usually the work was only eliminate them, but sometimes they were, in fact, victms too, because they were forced to do their work. In this case we need find the "Boss" and destroy him, what free the hundreds of negs that were not more forced to work obsessing the living people. This kind of work irritated a lot of other "Boss" negs, of course, and because this we were attacked by negs that had none personal reasons against us, they only tried do their "job". Sometimes was funny when I awaked and remembering my dreams I found a scene when a postman knock at my door, I open the door and the postman was very nervous. His appearence was of a black man, but like a beggar, still trying to fit ih the clothes, hair and beard a mess. He trying to give me a package but always in panic, ready to run at the less signal of reaction from me. But it was a dream, I was not counscious in astral, and so I though so strange a postman so scared. I signed the papers to receive the package and the postman began to relax a little, probably perceiving that I was unconcious and so he was safe. But then he tried "look good to his boss, I suppose", and while he was going away he shout a bravado: "we will expell you from your home, we will take all from you, you will see!", but he was really read to run if necessary, it was funny! I closed my door thinking: "what strange behaviour to a postman!". When I open the box and take off the book form it, inside the bookl there were several tinny packages, and I knew they were spells (like talismans, each package was composed by several materials, charged to work together to one goal). Then I waked up and understood the postman behavior. He really disliked to risk his skin in the case I suddenly become councious in the dream and I think that he was a little surprised by my lack of perception.
In another dream I was in a line to a movie wiht two girl friends and a drunk beggar begun to importune us badly. I suddenly beat him, with punchs and a then with a heavy stick (this was a curious behavior, because never in my physical life I gave a punch in a person). The beggar felt, maybe dead, and we run to home. Some time after, maybe two hours if was not a dream, someone knock at the door, one of the girl opened and a very agressive black man entered. it was the same man that I supposely kill in front to movie, but now he became some kind of psychopat. He entered and began to beat seriously in the girl that opened the door. It seems that he was trying broke all her bones, he began to destroy the furniture too. But the interesting things is: I was dreaming two rrom far, completely immersed in the fantasy of the dream, but in the exact moment he entered, my councious awaked, I knew who entered in the home and how deadly dangerous he was. i didnt think "oh, I am in astral", or "oh, it is only a dream", I simply became councious form situation and began "to function" in "astral mode": I look in the direction of the sounds and was able to see what was happening, even with two walls between me and them (it was a kind of tunnel vision). So I began to floating, I crossed over the roof, keep flying inside the roof and when I was right over him, I crossed over to down, exactly in front the man. i began to punch him, and it was punch concrete. He laughed wildly, like a crazy man, ignoring my punches. I beat him with a heavy stick, right on the head, and it seemed like beat on a rock. He was still laughing and I didnt know what to do, so, I had a idea: I decided intermix our bodies and accelerates my frequency, because I knew that his body, much more dense, would not able to manage that frequency and would literally explode ( I have no idea from where came this idea, but like I said, I was "functioning" in "astral mode", so, fly, change body form, see at distance, all this was working instintictively). I took his arms and I can perceive that suddenly he knew what I was about to do, he stop his laughing suddenly, opened eyes very wide, and I penetrated his body and accelerated imediately. I waked in bed, still listening his last scream. Maybe one year after I saw Matrix, the movie, and recognize the same tecnique almost in the end of the movie, when Neo was shot, live again, and penetrates the Smith body. Sincerely I dont know if this is possible, or if I capted the immaginated movie scene from collective uncouncious and did it, but like I was completelly councious that I was in astral during all this action, I suppose that it was not a fantasy.
Well, but why I am telling this to you?
1) In the both cases the offender were black drunk beggars, usually connected with black magic usually worked by SOME african cults.
2) The reasons to the attacks were not personal, but related to the spiritual work that my group was doing (the both women in the second dream were form the group)
3) The extreme agressive behavior in the second case, similar what was described in the last post.

In the spiritualist point of view, wich is the dominant view in Brazil, because the spiritualism kardecist and too in Umbanda ( a brazilian religion resulted from a mix between african and indian cults... ( I will continue in the next post)

[sandrofabres]

(I am sorry, I am posting using the cell phone and probably he has a limit of characters. continuing...)
... and supported by the collective investigations of mediuns and psychics, this offenders were living people, that lived anddied in bad conditions (usually alcool or drug overdose), what put them in a very bad situation after death. They are usually captured by black magicians, because they still are attached in his etheric body and so they can very usefull in attacking the living, because they atheric double can be recharged with blood sacrifuces and so they have a lot of strength to cause much more severe attacks. Althougth a lot of attacks has personal reason behind, like revenges for acts from past lifes, there is too a "business", a kind of "project" that his like agenda disturb, difficult or block completely any subject that can do a work that help others. So, it is very natural, and in fact is a waited collateral effect, that persons interested in higher states consciense and talking freely about this, to awaken others too, will find sistematic but impersonal opposition from negs, while a materialistic or "instintive-oriented" people will go throught the life without even note this happenings, because if you are not usefull nor to you nor to others, you are unable to awake a opposition.

I dont know if , IN FACT, this offenders are, as the spiritualism affirm, real people that simply are aprisioned in their etheric double, unable to pass to the second death, or etheric empty shells now occupied by elementals or demons, like occultists from the Western Tradition probably could think, but in any case they are real enought to be faced like real beings. The only other point that I would like to add is: the appearence of these beings are deppendent of the beliefs of who see them. I, that never had a religion, see them like black men, but some others see them with horns and goat foot. And any person only need give a quick look in the goetic seals in solomonic magic and in "striped points" (in literal translation) from voodoo or any other african religion to perceive the similarities between goetic "demons"and african entities (not the orishas, obviously). The advantage of the spiritualist point of view (probably saw like very nayve for occultistas) that see all spiritual beings like humans and the belief in demons like result of distortion of perception and a church fantasy, is that the victim of the attack can see it like a thing that can and should be faced, while if the victim believes that she is victim of a demon, she probably will gave up.

[CFTraveler]

Well, to tell you the truth, someone said in a book that I'm reading, that the 'gods of any outgoing religion are the devils/demons of any incoming religion.
For example, the ancient celtic pagan gods were horned because it symbolized potency, and when the new religion came in and demonized the old gods, they began depicting demons as horned- a retooling of an image that was already established. That's why in some religions the symbol of the serpent is considered sacred (a symbol of fertility and the earth, since they go to ground when it's cold) and then it was used as a symbol of the devil in early christianity- the reassigning of a role in an already existing power figure.
So of course, you can assign any form to an entity, depending on your cultural conditioning, when you are perceiving the energetic 'feel' of the entity.
But once again, when we project we can see things that others are thinking (and fearing) about, and this makes these experiences more difficult to catalogue.
I can't tell you how many times I have projected to a terrifying situation only to see it months or years later on TV- getting me to think that maybe at the time I projected to someone else's creative mind, when they were thinking up a screenplay or book.

[sandrofabres]

yes, I think that the movies and videogames, recent phenomens in the human history, but very powerfull because their power to stimulate imagination and emotion in large groups simultaneously, can create a whole world and groups of characteres, really dificulting the interpretation of what we experience in astral. Maybe because this occultists usually don t give much attention to astral experiences.

[Summerlander]

I don’t want to play anymore! I am right back to where I started. Amidst thousands of memories of fully conscious OBE’s,,, I am back at the beginning. <br>
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For those who don’t know me,,, My name is Jake. I am a natural astral projector. I have written a book about the experiences in my life, and I am an avid study of OBE and Astral Projection. I have read virtually every piece of literature on the subject, and attended Roberts P.A.P.I. last year. My projections are spontaneous,, not so much RANDOM. But spontaneous. I keep a journal and a list of goals. I do energy work EVERY DAY, and I meditate regularly. I have become quite sophisticated with my knowledge of OBE and the astral, and I find myself explaining it to others, quite often. I am a moderator at another forum site that deals with Alternative Media and Whistleblowers. <br>
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My problem manifested the day that I started reading PPSD, by Robert!<br>
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I used to have, (what I would call) Bully dreams. Dreams in which I was constantly being chased, harassed, tricked, hurt, confused etc,,, by a group of unknown assailants. They would often come along and ruin my OBE’s or LD’s. They take over the dream/astral event and begin ‘dragging me down’. This has been ongoing for a long time, and I have always thought that they were personal barriers that I had put up for myself. <br>
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Well, last month I started reading PPSD. A couple of days later, the following Astral Event occurred;<br>
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I woke suddenly from a deep sleep. It was about 3:00am and I was fully alert and conscious, trying to remember the dream that I was having. As I sat on the edge of the bed, contemplating whether or not to grab my journal,,, My front door was suddenly kicked in and 3 large black men with DEEP South African Accents rushed into the house and grabbed me and started beating me and dragging me out of the house. It was so sudden, I did not have a chance to react. My wife was screaming and my dogs were going nuts. They dragged me out of the house,,, I was being beaten and dragged and thrown around. These men were VERY angry and they were NOT going to let me go. I cannot describe the beating,,, they were trying to murder me. I found myself being dragged down a corridor of a tunnel or cave, as it was dark and the walls were brutally solid. I was being constantly beaten and thrown around. I realized, at this point, that this was not a physical event because they dragged me out of the house and now I was immediately in the tunnel. This was an astral event that I was NOT in control of. I had thought to myself that ‘it was going to be okay, this was as astral event, and I will wake from it soon’! But things just got worse. They finally threw me onto a rock slab. My body was dangling over the edge of a large pit. The most fierce and angry one of them yelled at me,,, “NOW YOU WILL BE WASHED IN MY BLOOD”!!! Just then, large amounts of blood and flesh were poured over me. LOTS of it! It seemed like buckets and buckets of blood and small bits of flesh. It was still very warm and I could taste it! My body was limp with exhaustion and pain. I realized that I would be murdered soon. I could feel the final blow as I phased back into the physical. I was still sitting on the side of the bed. I collapsed into a lump on the floor. I was exhausted and could not move. I remembered it all very clearly. <br>
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This is, by far, the most devastating thing that has ever happened to me, physical or non-physical. <br>
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The core image is my own. Ie,,, the bully dreams. But this was NOT the same. These things have been with me a looooong time. They are getting pretty angry with me. <br>
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I have been having some pretty wonderful experiences with the ‘white light’ that will enter my ‘space’ once I have requested it. This is a deep trance practice that has been getting quite wonderful and amazing. <br>
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I can only assume that this is what they were talking about. Immersing myself in the ‘white light’ is pissing them off!!! I did not know that they were there!! They clearly did NOT appreciate my love of the light, and now they have shown themselves. <br>
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Core images have been corrupted, and now I have a full blown negative entity problem, complete with the incubus phenomenon. Sexual, deviant, FORCED dreaming and sexual sensations. <br>
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Now that I have identified the NEGs,,, I full expect a BATTLE to ensue. I do not give up!! <br>
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Has anyone dealt with this level of Neg before? I do not know what kind of countermeasures to put op now. These NEGS know my inside and out. It will be quite an experience, and I will need advice and help. I will keep this forum updated as the story unfolds. <br>
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Please!!! Someone tell me that it is possible to get rid of these ****ers!!!

Hi! For most of my childhood I kept have false awakenings where I'd find myself in inaccurate replicas of the house (thought mummy made some changes to the house) I lived in at the time. A group of giggling naked men with a snow-like complexion would always come through the walls and chase me around the house. Then they would grab me and torture me. I told my mum and she was baffled. at the time she decided they were evil spirits so she burned some incense and they went away.

But now I can see why I had the false awakenings and why these men would attack me. They were archetypal beings representative of my state of mind at the time in my opinion. I was a child who was often teased with the boogieman by my older sister. I had little understanding of the world and many things scared me...hence the vivid nightmares. I believe they are dissonant states of mind which present themselves in order for us to face our fears. There is no need for a battle and you can stop fearing them or even running/hiding from them in a protective light. You don't need it. The best remedy is to have no fear of them and believe they can't hurt you. That is what I did.

When I discovered OOBEs three years ago I was encountering malicious entities too but then I decided that they don't exist but in my own mind. I stopped running. I can transmute them into whatever I want just with the power of thought because I simply believe that I can and I don't panic. Panic has long been cast out. Try this. Be open-minded about this approach and I guarantee you that it will yield results. Don't bother reading books about protection because this notion of protection only tells your subconscious that you need to be protected and conveys the notion of fear. Unless, of course, you think that the fact that you started reading Bruce's stuff and the start of these experiences occurring around the same time is merely coincidental, of course.:mrgreen:

Remember Buddha? How did he defeat the demon Mara, lord of illusions? By simply realising that Mara was a part of him. Demons have no existence but a subjective one. Once you deny them their existence...they cease to be. It is the devil in all of us.

[Jake]

I can certainly see this event from different points of view, thanks to all.
It is clear to me now that I have to keep an open mind, and not come to too many grand conclusions regarding this experience. It could have been anything.

1) When it first happened, it felt like a 'karmic' tie. I felt some familiarity to the place that I was taken, and the assailants seemed to laugh at the fact that I was 'phasing' back to my body. Almost like they knew that there would be another time.

2) I then settled in to the idea that they were possesing negs, as described in PPSD.

3) I suppose it could be a psychic attack of another kind. Some other outside influence. It was very brutal.

4) A direct lesson from higher self. This makes the most sense.

5) A fear/panic reaction that ruined what would have been a completely different scenerio, if I would not have engaged a fear based creative event.

I should know better than to panic. It is a very 'fluid' situation in the astral, and these things can take on a life of their own. I will surely endeavor to be more prepared and balanced.

[Summerlander]

Oh man, I'm so glad! That's it! When they come, don't run and face them unafraid. Deny their existence no matter how real they look. Believe me I know what such experiences feel like. I've been there! and it is funny that you mention the laughing as you phased back. Mine laughed too.

Even if they grab you, just remember that you will not be harmed in any way (physically) and don't let any trauma form in your mind. Believe that you are in control. No fear. Say to yourself that there is nothing they can do to you that will make you scared. Maintain that serene mind. He who is not worried about what will become of him is free in the mind.

[psionickx]

My front door was suddenly kicked in and 3 large black men with DEEP South African Accents rushed into the house and grabbed me and started beating me and dragging me out of the house.
At the risk of sounding flippant or spouting sass - i'm just going to add that not to rout the aggressor here would seem like "3 large black men with DEEP voices had their way" with the OP ...that won't do now will it? ,specially not for (an author no less).




Well, to tell you the truth, someone said in a book that I'm reading, that the 'gods of any outgoing religion are the devils/demons of any incoming religion.
For example, the ancient celtic pagan gods were horned because it symbolized potency, and when the new religion came in and demonized the old gods, they began depicting demons as horned- a retooling of an image that was already established. That's why in some religions the symbol of the serpent is considered sacred (a symbol of fertility and the earth, since they go to ground when it's cold) and then it was used as a symbol of the devil in early christianity- the reassigning of a role in an already existing power figure.
So of course, you can assign any form to an entity, depending on your cultural conditioning, when you are perceiving the energetic 'feel' of the entity.
But once again, when we project we can see things that others are thinking (and fearing) about, and this makes these experiences more difficult to catalogue.
I can't tell you how many times I have projected to a terrifying situation only to see it months or years later on TV- getting me to think that maybe at the time I projected to someone else's creative mind, when they were thinking up a screenplay or book.


This is an interesting thread. Around the time I started NEW and conscious projecting, I had a similar series of dreams. Only once were African perpetrators involved. This was violence that was directed from a shaman towards a young African man that he betrayed and dropped down a well. I observed at a distance of several metres, across a lava flow. It doesn't sound horrendous but the atmosphere was thick with a sense of evil and I had deep understanding of each player's feelings. It was such a terrible abuse of power and the shaman was a true psychopath.
In another, I was an Afro-American woman. I physically fought with a man who had abducted me after I'd witnessed his crime, biting and punching, knowing he intended to murder me. At the time, I posted something about it because there was a thread about a lobster like entity that Aunt Claire's group had identified. During the fight, the man shoved "my" face"into a lobster like creature and I heard it crunch. What I didn't mention is the manner in which he murdered "me". I was a little too embarrassed to mention it but I'm less so now - it was a stab to the genitals, an upwards thrust.
The other abduction dream was by masked men. They bound me and left me alive in a coffin. It became a sleep paralysis experience after that.
Astounding!!

[beam]

Well, to tell you the truth, someone said in a book that I'm reading, that the 'gods of any outgoing religion are the devils/demons of any incoming religion.
For example, the ancient celtic pagan gods were horned because it symbolized potency, and when the new religion came in and demonized the old gods, they began depicting demons as horned- a retooling of an image that was already established. That's why in some religions the symbol of the serpent is considered sacred (a symbol of fertility and the earth, since they go to ground when it's cold) and then it was used as a symbol of the devil in early christianity- the reassigning of a role in an already existing power figure.
So of course, you can assign any form to an entity, depending on your cultural conditioning, when you are perceiving the energetic 'feel' of the entity.
But once again, when we project we can see things that others are thinking (and fearing) about, and this makes these experiences more difficult to catalogue.
I can't tell you how many times I have projected to a terrifying situation only to see it months or years later on TV- getting me to think that maybe at the time I projected to someone else's creative mind, when they were thinking up a screenplay or book.

(they= the ROMAN catholic church)

they also wanted to make people scared of the old religions. so they demonized the pagan gods. they burned people at the stake all over the place, in an attempt to try to kill off the old ways. they burned/ stole books full of knowledge also.

imagine the reverse happening?? people watching violent tv shows/ reading explicit books, playing explicit games, etc...and that content then going into their subconscious minds...and into the other planes...

someone who shoots guns in a game all day, then watches some violent tv show, or even comedy with strange sexual inuendoes, and then goes to sleep...is surely trained and desensitized, and indoctrinated, to act on this. if they snap one day, or desire something who knows what might happen, because they are trained to shoot, or do some starnge sexual act, etc...

[CFTraveler]

I'm going to disagree with part of the premise, beam:
(they= the ROMAN catholic church)
Some factions (especially at first) did a lot of the destroying of the old pagan religions, but soon after they realized that it was easier to absorb them (which is why catholicism was so synchretic, taking pagan festivals and deities and finding saints and their feasts to merge with them- that's how the people could continue to celebrate the feasts and worship their deities while also absorbing some of the new 'deities' (saints) first mixed up with them and then substituting them, sometimes using the same sacred places with new names.
The worse destruction came with the Reformation, who realized that catholicism was not eradicating folk wisdom, just renaming it, and went on a systematic destruction of icons, proscribing all the old pagan feasts (now catholic feast days) and completely removing all manner of connection of the people to their old community-based activities. That's what hit the nail on the coffin.


imagine the reverse happening?? people watching violent tv shows/ reading explicit books, playing explicit games, etc...and that content then going into their subconscious minds...and into the other planes...
That's why they (Monroe, et al) called it the M(ental)-Band- it's a big ol' mess of ideas all tangled up which we perceive willy-nilly, and defines one of the things we projectors have to learn- to disentangle the mess and figure out what came out of what. Not always fun but always interesting.