rope technique

[karmacox]

i am confused abt one thing in the rope techinque...

do i visualize and feel i pull the rope and get a meters away from my body and keep repeat this ....

or

do i visualize that i pull the rope and keep climbing to an endless sky or some scenario...

[howdihi]

Good quetion. I would like to know as well.

As far as visualizing, for the rope technique, I thought you were not supposed to visualize it. This is very difficult for me ( not visualizing it) and I haven't been able to do it yet. Is it ok to visulaize it or should I really concentrate... as it is THAT MUCH more effective?

[CFTraveler]

Good quetion. I would like to know as well.

As far as visualizing, for the rope technique, I thought you were not supposed to visualize it. This is very difficult for me ( not visualizing it) and I haven't been able to do it yet. Is it ok to visulaize it or should I really concentrate... as it is THAT MUCH more effective?

Who said you can't visualize? And concentrate on what? As opposed to what?

[howdihi]

Sorry about the last post. I can see I wasn't that clear.

In the online treatise, it said not to visualize the rope or your hands. But, to "feel" like you are climbing a rope in the dark. If you are in the dark, you would not be able to see your hands or the rope. Although my visualization skills are not perfect, it is a lot easier for me to see my hands and the rope than to just "feel" it there. My brain wants to see it.

By concentrating, I just meant concentrating on NOT visualizing, but trying to just feel the rope and concentrate on not "seeing" it or my hands.

What about the op's post? Do you know what would be better? Or does it not matter?

[CFTraveler]

Sorry about the last post. I can see I wasn't that clear.

In the online treatise, it said not to visualize the rope or your hands. But, to "feel" like you are climbing a rope in the dark. If you are in the dark, you would not be able to see your hands or the rope. Although my visualization skills are not perfect, it is a lot easier for me to see my hands and the rope than to just "feel" it there. My brain wants to see it.

By concentrating, I just meant concentrating on NOT visualizing, but trying to just feel the rope and concentrate on not "seeing" it or my hands.

What about the op's post? Do you know what would be better? Or does it not matter? I'm not going to speculate on what he meant, but it seems to me (and because it's happened to me) that the reason is that often when you're separating you can't see what you imagine (not yet, anyway) and to only rely on visualization is to limit your options as to how to get out.
I'll quote from Mastering Astral Projection: "Reach out with your imaginary hands and grasp the rope. Climb hand over hand strongly up the rope...Feel yourself... moving up the rope as you climb it...Feel your perspective of the room change slightly as you climb. ... Hold your mind clear and focus solely on climbing the rope...." (page 239)
It seems to me the idea is not on what you shouldn't be doing, but on what you should do: Concentrate on how it would feel to go up a rope. If you need to visualize, then focusing on what not to do is a waste on mental resources, and it takes the focus on what you should be doing- holding your mind on climbing the rope, as he said.
He has said in other works (and other parts of the one you read) that the purpose of not visualizing is because a lot of people are better at tactile visualizing, as opposed to 'pictorial' visualizing. But if it helps you, it is my opinion that you should do it.

[howdihi]

Great, thank you for the clarification :D

[BriMercer]

The most effective way to use the rope technique is to feel yourself climbing up endlessly away from your body (rather than returning to it every few seconds). The goal of any effective OBE exit technique is to focus your awareness away from your body. Climbing seems to be one very powerful way to root your attention away from the physical and keep it there.

[Wolfmanthe1st]

When I do the rope technique I sometimes feel my body float out and sometimes I will use the brow eye trigger and I visualize myself being pulled out through the head. I sense that I may be out several inches. I do the hand over hand technique about three more times and then I get vibrations. I do about three more times and the vibrations stop. If the vibrations stop have a unintentionally aborted the attempt or have I reached a zone where they are not present. The timing of the vibrations mae me think they are the result of the separation. But it seems that separation is not totally complete because if I let go of the rope I sink right back into my physical.... may that be because of gravitational pull? If I proceed further am I essentially pulling away from the physical body's pull? Once I am far enough away from the physical body's influence will I then feel totally out?

[BriMercer]

Based on what I glean from your description, I surmise that the vibrations may be having the effect of returning your focus from the exit technique to the site of the vibrations. Vibrations can be a sign of an impending exit but are not necessary for an OBE to take place. Ultimately they can be more of a distraction than anything else.

My advice would be to first try taking more time to relax (this can reduce the intensity of the vibrations). Second, when doing rope, feel yourself climbing up and away from your physical body. Leave it behind and go up and up and up. Imagine you are leaving your body behind. This should make ignoring the vibrations easier. It's important that you ignore the vibrations as much as possible and focus solely on the exit technique.

Brian

[Never]

The key to the rope trick is tension. Do not imagine the rope, but the resistance it provides in climbing. Imagine grinding your teeth as you pull with all of your might and willpower to escape your body. I find that with the more ferocity I do this, the quicker the vibrations and stronger is the onset. You apply pressure onto your body by resistance.

The hardest part is not getting into it too much (which is my problem): I will get to the point that I can feel my astral body twisting and turning to break free, my chest has a glacier on it, and all I see is sparks and fireworks, yet as it goes no further I then realize that I am slighty tensing my face muscles or arms as I am climbing the rope...this is what is limiting me, and as I realize this and relax again, I soon lose all progress.

[Bluelq]

The rope technique has given me its share of issues. First off I have not been able to cause vibrations from it, but try to use it when they begin. So far no real luck. Part of the problem is my logic, once I pull, I ussually feel or imagine myself going up and up... Well my mind shifts into above roof etc. Within 2 minutes I am climbing into space..lol As you can imagine this really is not doing the trick. SHifting focus outside of ones body with the pull feel seems to be the trick, and as such I will focus more on the feeling or sensation of pulling without it taking me anywhere but a few inches away. This might do the trick.

I also saw in your post something in regards to gravity. Robert mentions that we have a gravitational mindset that we must overcome, in nother words we are so used to gravity that we think its there after an exit. This is simply not the case. Gravity (other then our own habitual expectation of it) has no bearing whatsoever on the projected double.

Not an expert here, but is there a chance you are being succesfull but becuse of the mind split you don't realise it? Possibly focusing too much on the effort without leaving some space for the possibility it has occured already? Do you experience a total loss of effects when vibrations stop? If so there is very good chance a mind split is occuring..

[Bluelq]

I hate biting my own tongue but the rope technique has started to work. I have started feeling the pressure; I guess sometimes the old saying of try and try again holds true. Part of the change in technique I did was to feel the rope or rather my awareness hands pulling, as opposed to simply visualizing.

For the record I thought I was feeling before too, but nothing compared to how strong the feeling is now. I hope soon to finalize the effort. I also did some extensive drills of being outside of my body "point of view". Feeling like you are out already.. Robert goes into a good amount of detail on that. That might of helped as well.

Happy Traveling

[BriMercer]

Yes, the trick is really feeling the rope. That can definitely take practice.

Congratulations!

Brian

[Enlightenment]

I suppose it depends of the difficulty you're having in actually getting "out". If you find it quite easy then just imagine climbing the rope until you're a few meters past your physical body, but if you're finding it harder to get out then I suppose you just keep on climbing the rope like it's endless for however long it takes you to get OOB.

You don't have to actually visualise the rope like it's there, as long as you feel it with your Astral hands that's cool. If it helps to actual visualise or see the rope then so be it, no harm done. Remember, you're trying to keep your focus away from your physical body so use whatever is best for you.

Good Luck :D

[student of life]

:lol: HELLO EVERYBODY I JUST WANNA SAY THAT WHEN I DO THE ROPE TECHNIQE I GET POWERFUL ENERGY SENSATIONS AND I AM SO AFRAID THAT I STOP IT ANY ADVICE PLEASE?

[Korpo]

Hello, student.

Exit techniques can induce the so-called "vibrational state" or "pre-OBE vibrational state" which is an energy body phenomenon where the whole body rushes with energy, a feeling of acceleration and rising noise.

See AD-Pedia on "Vibrations": http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=65&BulletinID=274#2

The article this points to might explain your sensations. If not, please give more detail.

Take good care,
Oliver

[CFTraveler]

I want to also add (and I do this over and over) that rope is an exit technique and should be used only after trance and energy loosening techniques. Using it to induce vibes only causes you to not do anything when exit symptoms (such as vibes) happen and the exit is aborted, starting what can become a bad habit.
So: Trance first, then energy body loosening, then rope.
Thanks.

[BriMercer]

I agree with the advice above. Also, before practicing, commit to the exit. Resolve you're going to do, ignore the energy sensations, and put all your focus into it. The more quickly you relax and surrender to the process, the sooner the exit sensations will subside and you'll get out.

Also, the sensations you get from rope can lessen over time, so only practice when you really intend to go for it.

Good luck,

Brian

[student of life]

:D Thank you so much for your reply it's really good that I found people with the same interests as me,I have nobody to talk about my experiences so thank you everyone!Now I would like to ask you something.I finished M.A.P. but haven't managed to get a full waking O.B.E. every time I get the vibrations I fall asleep I tried the 37degree stance and the slight discomfort described in the book but still can't hold awake any advices?Thank you for your time!

[CFTraveler]

We would have to determine why it is you're not getting out-
Are you reaching the exit state but not getting out? (body asleep, mind awake)
Are you clicking out (falling asleep?)
Are you not able to get relaxed enough?
Are you getting any of the following:
visual hypnagogics or astral sight,
vibrations with astral noise,
sleep paralysis
or none of the above?

Some people get too relaxed and pass out (not enough energy)
Some people don't get relaxed enough and never stay in trance long enough to achieve a conscious exit.
Are you a light or heavy sleeper?
On any medication?

With some of this info we should have a better chance help you.
Thanks.

[student of life]

:) O.k. my main problem is when I go through the whole process sometimes before I even start the exit technique (sometimes I have started it)I start clickin' out and fall asleep.I am a heavy sleeper and in good health without medication.Also I achieve relaxation and waking paralysis.Now I have to say that I have a neck discomfort,so when my neck completely relaxes I fall asleep.I need any advice and thank you very much in advance.(If you need additional info tell me Iam grateful)KIRK. :D

[Korpo]

Hello, student.

You might use the simple "arm up" technique. When you lie down for tranceing, just bend your arm at the elbow and hold lower arm and hand straight up, while the upper arm stays on the bed. This is very easy to hold, minimal effort required to maintain.

If you fall asleep, the arm will relax and drop, and you will snap awake again. This way you can train recognising and avoiding the point where you involuntarily fall asleep. Trance is the state before the mind goes into sleep mode as well.

Oliver

[CFTraveler]

Another thing to try is to do it in the early morning- that way you will not be exhausted and merely sleepy, and getting up and doing it on a recliner may give you that bit of discomfort (yet support your neck) you need to stay aware.

[TalkingHead]

What about imagining your body spinning?.. this has worked for me and I'm just wondering if this has worked for anyone else.

[Martin]

Well I think most people (including me) have problems with the relaxation. I often start to feel vibrations, but then my concentration loosens and I start to pay attention to it and thus aborting the attempt. I always try again, but after a while my concentration completely disappears and I can't stop thinking, and having the urge to move my body.

The sleep paralysis is also weird. All sources on the subject state that it is complete physical (or partyly) paralysis. I can always move my limbs if I want to... Does that mean that it is in fact not paralysis? IMO it is not really paralysis, but more the disappearance of any urge to move something.

Can somebody lighten me up a bit?

[CFTraveler]

Well I think most people (including me) have problems with the relaxation. I often start to feel vibrations, but then my concentration loosens and I start to pay attention to it and thus aborting the attempt. I always try again, but after a while my concentration completely disappears and I can't stop thinking, and having the urge to move my body. Sounds like you're waking up.


The sleep paralysis is also weird. All sources on the subject state that it is complete physical (or partyly) paralysis. I can always move my limbs if I want to... Does that mean that it is in fact not paralysis? IMO it is not really paralysis, but more the disappearance of any urge to move something.
Can somebody lighten me up a bit?
Yep, paralysis is paralysis. The only thing you should be able to move is your head and torso, but not your limbs, or feel them.
If you can always move your limbs you're not in a deep enough trance. Even though some people don't have to be completely paralyzed to project, it's a good idea to be in as deep a trance as possible, at least at first.
A lot of people stress that you should feel a complete detachment to your body, and I don't agree with it completely either. I think the trick is to have an awareness shift from the outside to the inside (hypnagogics, audio hypnagogics, etc.) to be ready for projection. Vibes are a good marker, but unfortunately (and I think this is the case with you, Martin) they are coming before you are in deep enough. I would recommend you not try to do rope (unless you can continue to have your complete focus in the rope until it's a tangible reality to you- then it'll take you out). But if you can't do that try another exit technique, one that doesn't require movement- engage your hypnagogics, if you're not afraid to. And, if you're not getting hypnagogics, that's another indication you're not in deep enough. You may just have to stay in the 'noticing' state longer.

[Peaceful_Philosopher]

:lol: HELLO EVERYBODY I JUST WANNA SAY THAT WHEN I DO THE ROPE TECHNIQE I GET POWERFUL ENERGY SENSATIONS AND I AM SO AFRAID THAT I STOP IT ANY ADVICE PLEASE?

I suggest you go ahead and find out. If you feel energy within your self, then that couldn't possibly harm you. I'm not so experienced at this, I speak out of pure logic, and I may be wrong, but this is my advice. I envy that feeling though, and good luck :)

[mrsix]

Hi everyone,

I sometimes have spontaneous OOBS when I awake during the night or early mornings, but have yet been succesful for a concious exit.

I have a problem with ROPE I wonder if anyone can relate to..

I do alot of energy work and my energy body is always rather floaty... that means, it seems to bob around a lot when I relax and meditate, and also when im just watching tv etc

When I feel out to pull the rope, for some reason my energy body appears to sway with it, as if the rope is not fixed... it swings about!! Plus, sometimes my mind seems to create issues, for instance the rope may in fact not be stuck to the ceiling, therefore every tug i feel pulls the rope towards me instead.

Is this just stupid habit my brain has created? It really is causing problems! Sometimes when I do pull, that sensation goes away, and I can climb and climb but normally after I get the vibes and heavy vibrations, not much else happens...

Maybe I should visualise a firemans POLE instead of a ROPE :D

[CFTraveler]

Even though rope is a wonderful technique, and I use it often, it's also a technique that starts 'in body' and externalizes it. The act of imagining a rope and going through the mental motions of climbing it sometimes puts you back in your body if you're already out, and your description sounds to me like that is your situation. I usually use rope only when I'm undoubtedly in, and 'looking out', even if I have hypnagogics or other indicators of deep trance. But if you are extremely floaty (as if you're bobbing on the ocean) and you are receiving information that you would only get if you were already projected, then I would not use the rope technique- I would use a technique that involves using the floatiness to go away for your body. Like for example, surfing, waterski, being a balloon, 'scuba diving' (Imagine you're in the bottom of a pool and floating up and recreate the sensation.) In other words, something that finishes the externalization of the energy body, since it's already 'almost out'.
This may trigger other symptoms, like vortex or gate formations, or a sensation of dislocation. Go with it, go towards it, and you'll be out.
That's my advice.

[mrsix]

Hi CFTraveller, thankyou for your advice.

I think you're probably spot-on, ROPE is good if you are pretty grounded at the time or are Lucid Dreaming etc.

I have also found with ROPE, that it will bring on the 'vibes' and vibrations etc, but for me sometimes I find I actually tend to start lifting my neck up and shaking my physical body. Not just my astral, but my REAL body. Perhaps im just trying too hard... I have had more luck with just lying back when im tired and willing myself out (not very often it happens, but im yet to will myself to OOB during the day with ROPE!)

[Skywalker]

Rope is also putting too much of a strain on me... yesterday i tried hard getting out with the rope-technique, i started to sweat a lot and in the end i gave up because i thought i was doing something wrong. I suppose you aren't supposed to be bathed in sweat, when in a trance?

[CFTraveler]

Chances are you shouldn't. Maybe you should take a little longer with trance and energy body loosening?

[Skywalker]

Hi CFTraveller...
(You told me before about doing some more body-loosening :D :oops: ) How long time do you have to do body-loosening before applying the exit-technique do you have to get the vibrations? I'm a bit confused about this, in Robert Bruce's Teatrise that is found on this website, he writes that the rope-technique can be applied as the first (and only thing) needed to get a quick OBE for beginners. I guess i've had this in the back of my head when doing my practicises and not giving the body-loosening the attention needed.

Then again R.B wrote the teatrise long before writing MAP, so he could have changed his mind in between.

Another question on "Rope": I usually get exit-symptoms like heart-beat-racing shortly after doing "rope", when they set in, it becomes very hard to feel my arms pulling the rope. Is there anything else to do than practising until the heart-beat-racing settles down (due to the body being accostumed to exit-techniques) or will it be any less disturbing if i get the symptoms during body-loosning?

(thanks for all of your feedback CFTraveller, its very valuable, and makes all of us keep going for it.)

[CFTraveler]

Hi CFTraveller...
(You told me before about doing some more body-loosening :D :oops: ) How long time do you have to do body-loosening before applying the exit-technique do you have to get the vibrations? For as long as you feel comfortable doing it. It's possible that you may or may not get vibrations, but it could be from 5 to 10 minutes more or less. Each person is different.


I'm a bit confused about this, in Robert Bruce's Teatrise that is found on this website, he writes that the rope-technique can be applied as the first (and only thing) needed to get a quick OBE for beginners. I think what he meant to say is that it can be used like this because it's such a strong method- it overrides the body's automatic reflexes and forces it to do what you want. This doesn't mean it's how it should be done.


I guess i've had this in the back of my head when doing my practicises and not giving the body-loosening the attention needed. Well, the next time I talk to Robert I'll ask him about it. The thing is that Robert is very adept, and he can project easier than you and me both- so what can trigger something 'right away' in him may not work as fast in you or me.


Then again R.B wrote the teatrise long before writing MAP, so he could have changed his mind in between. Like I said, I think he was indicating how effective the method was, not necessarily saying it's how it should be done. But yes, he did write it before doing MAP. But then he does things faster than anyone I know, and I witnessed this in the Virginia workshop last year. He is a powerhouse.


Another question on "Rope": I usually get exit-symptoms like heart-beat-racing shortly after doing "rope", when they set in, it becomes very hard to feel my arms pulling the rope. Is there anything else to do than practising until the heart-beat-racing settles down (due to the body being accostumed to exit-techniques) or will it be any less disturbing if i get the symptoms during body-loosning? The heartbeat thing is your heart chakra being stimulated, showing it's working. I have never had heart chakra activity while body loosening (although I have had eyebrow chakra activity). The answer is keep doing it and don't give up. I've given the example of something I did once (and never will again):
I wanted to test the notion of rope being used to induce trance, without doing anything else. I have always enjoyed my loosening so never had used rope for anything other than exiting when symptoms set in, so I decided to test this. So I lay down on the bed, did some relaxation and trance and raised energy. Then I went straight to rope.
So I pull and pull and pull. I pulled for (not kidding here) at least half an hour and amazingly things started to change. Everything got weird, and I started to feel a real rope between my astral arms. Now I was pulling on a rope I could feel. As I pulled, I could feel resistance, and I could feel the rope coming down (instead of me going up) on my chest. As I pulled the rope coiled on my chest it began to acquire weight. Then it was like my chest continued to get heavier the more I pulled. The heavier my chest got the harder it was to pull the rope, when my astral arms began to fatigue as physical arms would- they began to go numb. But I continued to pull, knowing that the more sensation I was feeling the more extra-physical I was becoming. At some point, when I was about to quit from sheer exhaustion, I heard that loud *POP!* and I was floating up near the ceiling, and could see my body laying on the bed. Before I knew it, I was trying hard to go through the ceiling because I knew if I lingered I'd be pulled back in. I'm retelling this to show that if you commit to using rope, you have to keep going until you get out or pass out. If you don't do either, you can't stop, no matter how awake you think you are. Anything else is reverse training.

(thanks for all of your feedback CFTraveller, its very valuable, and makes all of us keep going for it.)
You're welcome, it's nice to know that.