H-S OBE / JOOB - bluff?

[PauliEffect]

There are some CDs which are claimed to help you OBE, for example:

The Condition D in the 6 CD set of JOOB
The Buhlman POS CD in the 2 CD set Adventures Beyond the Body (ABB)
The third CD (exercise #5) of the Gateway Wave I, 3 CD set.

So far I've been unsuccessful to have an OBE by H-S. So I've searched
the net and found the following article on OBE EEG research from
Lucidity Letter 4(2), December, 1985, p. 43, by David Scott Rogo,
John F. Kennedy University.

Title (link): Out-Of-Body Experiences as Lucid Dreams: A Critique (http://www.spiritwatch.ca/LL%204.2/Out%20of%20body%20experiencesas%20lucid%20dreams-Rogo.htm)

The article is old, from 1985, which makes it even more interesting as
there can be new discoveries which alters its claims. From the article:


"The results indicate that OBEs emerge from a wide variety of brain states,
with no consistency present between the EEG records from one subject to
another. ...

The EEG tracings that accompanied her sleep OBE revealed no REMS. They
did show continuous alphoid waves and poorly defined sleep spindles, but
the alphoid activity was so peculiar that an outside judge could not classify
it as clear-cut sleeping or waking.

Researchers there found a strong relationship between Monroe’s OBEs and
the production of the theta waves. Such a finding is not consistent with
the idea that OBEs are any sort of dreams.

These various studies reveal that, unlike dreaming, OBEs do not emerge
from any discrete state of consciousness as defined psychophysiologically."


And perhaps most important:

"Yet practically no EEG tracings taken from a gifted OBE subject has ever
conformed to a similar data taken from any other subject. There is even
some indication that a single subject is capable of inducing OBEs from
different brain states, as the research with Robert Monroe suggests."



This made may jaw drop, as the idea with H-S is to induce a specific type
of brain wave pattern to put the person in a state where it is easier to OBE.

But if no skilled OBE:er ever has had the same brain wave pattern as any other
OBE:er, isn't the idea of using H-S to put everyone into the same brain wave pattern
to OBE a con?

Question is what brain wave pattern JOOB & POS tries to induce?

And why they would work in the light of the last quote above?

[Korpo]

Hmmm. HemiSync initially worked for me. Gave me my first OBE exit symptoms, etheric visions (seeing with closed eyes) and my first etheric OBE. It seems that HemiSync works. Maybe the mechanism is not well-understood?

[PauliEffect]

Korpo, this is about exactly what has happened with me on most of the uses of H-S CDs I've been listening to. I have like 20 different H-S CDs from various package.

And the effect the first time has almost always been the most impressive on my mind. But not so the second time. So somehow the brain/ear/mind very quickly gets used to H-S sound and it is not affected anymore (for me). The second or third time listening to the same H-S CD, I experience a less impressive effect, sometimes nothing at all.

Not to mention that some H-S CDs have had absolutely no effect on me at all.

I even have had one experience where I didn't listen to one particular H-S CD for 3 months as it had given me absolutely no effect. Then one day I decided to listen to it again and got an effect of a "floating" feeling, which I had not experienced before.

Maybe some people just needs a little "push" to OBE and the most effective come the first time listening to H-S?

But still, this doesn't address the original questions. :)

[Korpo]

Actually, if I read it, the research is so full of premade assumptions, what did they expect? I'm just referring to the snippets posted.

It may show that EEG is no reliable means of tracking states of consciousness at all. I remember reading that there is also no recognisable brainwave pattern for hypnosis. Yet hypnosis clearly exists and works.

Again, proving the irreliability of EEG would not prove HemiSync is effective or not - just the "theory" underlying it would be proven unsound. Similarly, they recently found a mechanism underlying acupuncture. Till then they could only tell it works. HemiSync was not created by first creating a fancy brainwave pattern theory. The actual Monroe HemiSync was created by self-testing what worked for Monroe and his explorers and what not.

What would happen if the potential for OBE is irregularly distributed in the populace? What would statistical averages of "normal EEG states" actually tell us about OBEs then?

I think the primary effect I observe with HemiSync that H-S is not able to overcome the effect expectations have on my state of consciousness. I have had many experiences in my life that were impressive but not repeatable. This includes H-S. One of the major blocking factors seemed to be that I started to get expectations of what would happen instead of letting it happen. I think certain people - like me - will through this overrule the effect, while others have much less of such an effect.

It seems like satisfaction with actual H-S courses taken on-site is rather high. If H-S could only work 1 or 2 times, this would be hard to do, because people get in there multiple times a day.

I'd say H-S is no single factor by itself that will guarantee OBE. But for me it has done the job of proving myself that the thing I'm looking for exists. As there is no other technology that can give me that result as easily, it's a success for me.

[PauliEffect]

Korpo, that thing you said about hypnosis was interesting. I would have expected, well I don't know, but perhaps some kind of alpha wave for hypnosis states?

I've also wondered how shaman drums work as they are clearly not binaural (or monk chanting for that sake). :)

[Jake]

I have had thousands of fully conscious OBE's. My experimenting with the JOOB CDs did not induce an OBE. They did seem to help me get into a deeper state of trance, but not deep enough to have a total effect.

However,,, when working with the Condition D CD, I was able to stimulate some pretty intense energy body effects and lucid dreaming. Simply fall asleep listening to the Cond D CD. Thats it! for whatever reason, the Cond D CD has a life of its own. The others did not have the same effect. Bob Felix tried to explain it to me during the PAPI a couple of years ago. I didn't follow his explanation. Cheers,, Jake.

[psionickx]

The actual Monroe HemiSync was created by self-testing what worked for Monroe and his explorers and what not.

Here's what i do (i dont have time for entire cd sets and collections sundry) i do however have the software for making binaurals along with pre-made tracks ........or "hits" -upfront cold cut beta ..YUM (caffeine addict yes)

In the "i-doser"/"transparent-cube"/BWGEN's genre of things i take whichever hit "astral jolt" "OOB ZAP" "Etheric NOW" (you get my drift) works most on me (wanton promiscuity yes i know) duplicate it , cutting out softeners/fillers/pacifying-white-noise and then seeing which hz/wave-form has delievered most result and then continue experimentation towards that end.

On a more personal note still ....some hits like ECT arent that bad to jolt start your day ther ......and some still arent that bad to end your day on a high note if you lean towards that :rolleyes: ......(TripleloadedBLISS - 5 mins FLAT gets the job done)