soul is not immortal????

[Astral_Being]

this man claims that he is from a secret society and that lucifer wants us to beleive that we have a soul that is immortal when in real its not........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LneLhl2S ... ........is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LneLhl2SGPI&feature=related................is) this trueee????

[Korpo]

I don't think so, but that's just me. Why would it worry you what some random stranger on youtube thinks?

Cheers,
Oliver

[Sinera]

I don't watch vids like that. Maybe you shouldn't either, so you need not to worry. :wink:
People claim a lot of weird things (on youtube and elsewhere).
However, the problem starts already if you try to define what "soul" is. This life's personality ego? The "over"soul / higher self? Something in between?

[ButterflyWoman]

First, you have to define what is meant by "soul". Only then can you have any clue how to talk ABOUT this thing called "soul". Philosophers and theologians and mystics have been puzzling this one out since humans were able to puzzle about these things. Personally, I wouldn't put much stock into anyone who claims to have the absolute truth about the nature of a soul and what happens or doesn't happen to it once we're dead.

Oh, and once we've got this whole "what is a soul and what happens to it if we have one" thing worked out, let's move on to "what is truth". ;)

[CFTraveler]

*Splort*

[Tutor]

if we may ask, "is this true?"; then how can the soul be real, if it is apparently in question before ever a video could rock out the rolling question/stone. so, videos like this, no matter how erroneous and misleadingly founded, are not "bad" per se, for they've alerted you in the least, to your inward quest which has no answer for it's self, that answer being your...soul.

examine your feelings in this question, search out your within. simple proof of your soul being real and immortal, is the fact that this question has stirred you up within toward answer.

the question is not about the validity of the tootsie roll center's presence. the question remains as, how many licks does it take to get to this chewy LUsCIous center. yet, even the wise old owl of time, couldnt resist the temptation of prematurely biting through.

so you see, we learn of tolerance, patience, understanding, forgiveness...etc, with our very hurried selves, which would undo in a bite, what is approached through licks as resurrecting reach.

tim

[Astral_Being]

yes but what do u guys think about this conspiracy by lucifer to trap man into thinking he is immortal when he is not ??????? how do u kno wt the truth is......also this man talks about that lucifers angles are the ones that pretending to be the ur past loved ones when u astral project to them and this makes people beleive falsely that we humans are immortalss....what are your guys thought on that???

[Korpo]

I don't even think there's a Lucifer. And if, then only as a thoughtform created by mankind and fed by our fears.

The things that truly don't worry me anymore are secret societies, conspiracy theories and "hidden information" like this. To me that's just people listening to their own fears.

Cheers,
Oliver

[Tutor]

I agree with Korpo all the way. well said.

but if i had posted what i feel to write here as reply, it'd just be removed as derailing the thread. otherwise i'd have submitted what i had at great length written over the last hour, only to abandon it in the end. yet, i probably would have deleted it anyways, so it doesnt really matter. but, there is a marked difference between the two decisions, as my decision to delete my own material is impersonal, as is what i feel to write.

tim

[ButterflyWoman]

what are your guys thought on that???
I can see I was too subtle.

I am unaffected by it. I don't care what this random person says, or what any random person says. I don't follow organised religion, I don't do what other people tell me to do just because they say to do it, and I don't believe what other people tell me to believe just because they say it's the truth.

Oliver says it perfectly:


I don't even think there's a Lucifer. And if, then only as a thoughtform created by mankind and fed by our fears.

The things that truly don't worry me anymore are secret societies, conspiracy theories and "hidden information" like this. To me that's just people listening to their own fears.
Yup. What he said.

[CFTraveler]

I also agree. It's all about creating fear, to get followers, or admirers- all about power.

[Enochian]

Even RB says that the "soul" is not immortal

The only way to gain spiritual immortality is to raise kundalini and obtain the kundalini light body.

[Korpo]

Thanks, Tim and CaterpillarWoman. :)

Oliver

[Tutor]

Korpo/Oliver,

this message has self-destructed...8) :D

[Korpo]

* cue "Mission Impossible" music * :lol:

Oliver

[CFTraveler]

:D

[CFTraveler]

Even RB says that the "soul" is not immortal

The only way to gain spiritual immortality is to raise kundalini and obtain the kundalini light body. Ok I'll bite- where does he say this?

[Tutor]

not trying to be rude, but isnt "spiritual immortality" a contradiction in terms?

one may say that "spirituality" is speculative "of the soul", from the mortal sense of being as we are...through human reasoning.

we imagine this "immortality" from a mortal stance, having no factual references with which to understand it beyond "extended mortality" or perpetual longevity of life as we sense life to be from our mortality facing death; as would naturally be assumed through mortal human senses.

but this doesnt actually mean that this is what "immortality" is, as far as is the speculations "of the soul" in what is commonly refered to as "spirituality".

i wrote some more, but hell, i read it, and couldnt make intelligible sense of it :roll: . so...gone :shock: . lol

but i do beg to question. are "immortality" and "eternal life" the same thing? i dont feel that they are the same, sustainably connected, but not the same.

[Beekeeper]

Ultimately, what does it matter? If soul extinguishes when all is said and done (and I personally believe it doesn't) there's no consciousness* left to mourn it.

Research into near death experiences might help you worry less.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpa5bYkAYus&feature=player_embedded#at=468

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=raymond+moody&aq=f

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=near+death+experiences+brinkl ey&aq=f

*Assuming this is what you associate with soul. :roll:

[Beekeeper]

An afterthought: You know, I suspect there are many people who actually fear the ongoing existence of the soul.

[ButterflyWoman]

Ultimately, what does it matter? If soul extinguishes when all is said and done (and I personally believe it doesn't) there's no consciousness left to mourn it.
EXACTLY!!!


You know, I suspect there are many people who actually fear the ongoing existence of the soul.
I've known at least one person who appear to feel that way. I don't think he would use the word "fear" to describe it, but he was adamant that, essentially, there couldn't be anything after death and when really quizzed on it, he admitted that he, personally, did not WANT there to be anything after death. He wanted to die, and that be the end of it, and the very thought of having to "go" somewhere or "do" more stuff really upset him, so he just resisted it and justified his "knowledge" (i.e., belief) that death is the end.

I'm sure he can't be the only one, though he's the only one I personally know (I know a lot of people who disbelieve in "life after death" or however you want to term it, but I've never known someone who was so clearly afraid of the idea).

[eyeoneblack]

I'm not trying to get in on this conversation. Heck no, but I ran across this quote reading some old books. I liked it, it seems relevant so here 'tis:

It must be so - Plato, thou reasonest well! -
Else whence this pleasing hope, this fond desire,
This longing after immortality?
Or whence this secret dread, and inward horror
Of falling into nought? Why shrinks the soul
Back on herself, and startles at destruction?
'Tis the divinity that stirs within us;
'Tis heaven itself, that points out an hereafter,
And intimates eternity to man.

-English author Addison speaking for Roman Cato.

Pretty nice I think if you're in the right mood 8)

[Sinera]

You know, I suspect there are many people who actually fear the ongoing existence of the soul.I've known at least one person who appear to feel that way. I don't think he would use the word "fear" to describe it, but he was adamant that, essentially, there couldn't be anything after death and when really quizzed on it, he admitted that he, personally, did not WANT there to be anything after death. He wanted to die, and that be the end of it, and the very thought of having to "go" somewhere or "do" more stuff really upset him, so he just resisted it and justified his "knowledge" (i.e., belief) that death is the end.Yes, many atheists think exactly that way. As I reported already lately, I had been to an Atheist's forum up to a while ago into discussions there. There are many people who are not just 'agnostic' ('let's-see-what-happens-or-if-sth-happens-at-all'-stance) but are rather outright adamant with this attitude you describe about this one person.
They not only disbelieve in an afterlife but they absolutely don't want it. For them, life is a lot about suffering and they are "happy" that then everything ends, including the(ir) suffering. They are at peace with it. If you ask them how can they 'live with that perspective' all you get is just a kind of stoic 'get-over-it'-response.

[Tutor]

I'm not trying to get in on this conversation. Heck no, but I ran across this quote reading some old books. I liked it, it seems relevant so here 'tis:

It must be so - Plato, thou reasonest well! -
Else whence this pleasing hope, this fond desire,
This longing after immortality?
Or whence this secret dread, and inward horror
Of falling into nought? Why shrinks the soul
Back on herself, and startles at destruction?
'Tis the divinity that stirs within us;
'Tis heaven itself, that points out an hereafter,
And intimates eternity to man.

-English author Addison speaking for Roman Cato.

Pretty nice I think if you're in the right mood 8)

i must be in the right mood 8) , ditto - pretty nice, nailed it

as simple as it gets. an example of why i feel that from having peaked we've (humanity) been on a down run that increasingly gets steeper and faster, since year 1 and year 1 collided. speculatory of course

gandhi was asked what he thought about western civilization, his reply was that he thought it would be a good idea, as in yeah this "idea" should actually be implemented asap without further delay. an astute observation based upon undeniable historical global evidence

ever watch Wall-E, when the ship loses it's equilibrium, tilts, and all the animated folks roll into a heaps of immovability. funny stuff, but has little to do with it i guess. metaphoric genius

[CFTraveler]

I get what you're saying Tim, (or at least I think I do- I get what I get, if you get my drift) and I am not stating adamantly that for sure and without speculation that the soul is either immortal or eternal (and I am very clear on the difference and the inference) but what I'm trying to say is that-

To categorically state that there is a soul and that it is immortal first you have to believe and clarify that there is a soul and that it is 'you' or some similar all-encompassing part of you.

Then you have to ask- is my soul my earthly perceptions or is my soul some sort of transcendent entity that is also 'me'? And then, I ask you, what is the purpose of having a soul that is transcendent (that is, that consists of more than your ego, your id, your experiences, and whatever you've learned- your perceptions?) If all of this dies with you, then what is the purpose of surviving the loss of your body and temporal existence if you are eventually going to stop existing altogether?

It seems like a big waste of energy, or information, and from what I gather, the universe doesn't appear to be wasteful- and dare I use the 'God' Word- why would God go through all the trouble of devising a system so rich only to do ultimately nothing with it?

This is why I think, that even though I don't know ultimately if there even is a soul, it seems to me that it would at least be immortal, if not eternal. If not, then there must not be a soul, because IMO transcendence is part of the definition.

Now, what I say to the OP is this- why would someone go to the trouble of preaching that the soul can be destroyed 'if you don't toe the line?' sounds like the motive is suspect, at least to me.

[Enochian]

Soul is annihilated in Christianity if you don't accept Jesus.

Mathew 10:28

Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[Enochian]

Which shows what?

soul is not immortal in Christianity, regardless of what most people think

[CFTraveler]

Which shows what?

soul is not immortal in Christianity, regardless of what most people think But what do you believe?

[Enochian]

That religious belief is to make one feel that one's "soul" is immortal as a comforting feature.

If you accept Jesus you become immortal

Eastern religions similarly have reincarnation

[CFTraveler]

That religious belief is to make one feel that one's "soul" is immortal as a comforting feature.

If you accept Jesus you become immortal

Eastern religions similarly have reincarnation Fantastic. Do you believe in the soul, as advertised, or do you have a different viewpoint?