Do you believe in God?

[ASKI]

Hi,

Do you believe in God, as in a literal, separate being with it's own personality, and can talk? Have you seen such a being?

I thought that most people here would believe that we are all one consciousness, and there is nothing separate, and outside of ourselves, except for illusion.

Or, do you guys use the term God as a metaphor for pantheistic beliefs?

But, to keep it related to the forum, do you believe in fake astral Gods? For example, when you pass over, do you believe that there is a fake astral God waiting for you to give it attention? Are these thought forms, and/or extra dimensional aliens (who might use technology), or are they discarnate beings who love being in authority and love attention (our energy)? Would these fake astral lords/Gods be in the Monroe 24 bands, the believf system territories, and/or beyond and/or before them?

I read Robert Monroes' works, and here is an interesting experience with an astral entity that claimed to be God. It's a hard read on a forum, as it doesn't give a clear indication of who is talking. Here is the exerpt: (Monroe, Ulitmate Journey, 1994, p. 208-209):

"But I must turn back—let me explore a little farther before I
do so . . . What? Blinding energy—I cannot move!
A voice in my head—a cold, admonitory voice . . .
I am the Lord thy God, whom you serve.
. . . A feeling of intense pressure, as if I am dissolving
. . . now I am in water . . . my lungs are full of water . . .
I must have air . . . get rid of the water . . . no, it can't be,
it isn't so . . . there is no water . . . I have no lungs. I am
being made to think that is where I am . . . it is an influence
. . . I know it is not so. The pressure releases . . . I can feel
fingers of energy probing for the core of me . . . I can stop
this . . . close the receptors . . . close tight . . . I remember
how . . .
You do not remember! You do not remember!
But I do . . . I remember the tests, the training experience
from my I-There . . . they were so real . . . I am
ready, ready for this demanding energy . . . it cannot harm
me. But what is this? What god can this be? It cannot harm
me or affect me . . . be calm, warm, friendly . . .
Do you not accept me as your god?
. . . the idea of a god that threatens amuses me . . . I
let this idea flow out . . .
208
Ultimate Journey
Do you not fear me?
. . . I release a picture of me blowing apart again and
again into millions of fragments, and reconstituting after every
explosion . . .
You are damned! You are no more than wasted energy of me,
who is your Lord!
. . . the energy fades to a tiny point and vanishes. How
many more like this may I encounter? . . . a waste of my
effort . . ."

Well, it is clear that Monroe met up with a false astral entity that claimed to be God.

THoughts? Much appreciated.

[CFTraveler]

Hi,

I thought that most people here would believe that we are all one consciousness, and there is nothing separate, and outside of ourselves, except for illusion.

Or, do you guys use the term God as a metaphor for pantheistic beliefs? Interesting way to put the question, implying that there is 'only' 'one' way to interpret.
I personally am a panantheist (not pantheist) and believe that God is all, but not just it- immanent and transcendent at the same time.



But, to keep it related to the forum, do you believe in fake astral Gods? For example, when you pass over, do you believe that there is a fake astral God waiting for you to give it attention? Are these thought forms, and/or extra dimensional aliens (who might use technology), or are they discarnate beings who love being in authority and love attention (our energy)? Would these fake astral lords/Gods be in the Monroe 24 bands, the believf system territories, and/or beyond and/or before them?

I don't have any set beliefs related to the afterlife, only ideas based on my provisional beliefs and experiences, but have experienced beings pretending to be 'who' they were not. So if a negative entity (or even a positive entity, such as a facilitator pretending to be a loved one, for example), I would not be surprised to find that there are entities pretending to be gods.
I have no opinion on the matter, just what seems to make sense to me.
--

[ButterflyWoman]

I personally am a panantheist (not pantheist) and believe that God is all, but not just it- immanent and transcendent at the same time.
What she said.

I'm also quite omnist, which is someone who sees and appreciates the value and wisdom of all religions, although I don't really subscribe particularly to any one these days.


I don't have any set beliefs related to the afterlife, only ideas based on my provisional beliefs and experiences
Ditto, again.

My overall thought on the astral/gods/whatever thing is that living people frequently pretend to be that which they are not. They'll sometimes come up with very complex and extensive lies and disguises in order to support that false identity. I can't think of any reason why this behaviour would be limited to material beings.

[Enochian]

Hi,
Do you believe in God, as in a literal, separate being with it's own personality, and can talk? Have you seen such a being?


yes I believe in a God who can talk and has a personality.

To see him/her, go look in a mirror. :D

If you read "The Middle Way" by the Dalai Lama, he demonstrates there cannot be a judeo-christian God. Its a proof.

[Beekeeper]

I'm with CF and CW on this one.

[RyanParis]

I do believe something put the material world here on purpose.

Why? For one, I've seen the astral dimension, as described in Astral Dynamics. I've seen it more than once, possibly three times by accident, when falling back asleep into the dream state.

Who put it there? Who put the astral realm there? Also makes one wonder... who put the material realm here?

I don't claim to know. It could be a strange or creepy entity for all I know, or a creator full of love, but I do believe the material world was put here on purpose.

[natalie-1984]

Not in the religious sense. I think this God or Source is more like a consciousness that gave birth to our universe, all the dimensions and everything else. I also believe that this God only seems mystical from our small point of view. Kind of like the organisms in our body would think we are mystical beings.

I have been gathering my own scientific evidence, I know I can leave my body- So I know that the spirit or energy survives death, where it goes after that I have no idea! But I'm excited to find out!

[lightgal]

My thoughts are in alignment with CFTtraveller and Natalie-1984 - except I am not sure that the organisms in our bodies see us as being more aware than them(not sure).

I just finished typing in another post regarding my idea of higher self. I believe that we have many levels to our being. I would term the highest level as my higher self - God. I believe God lives in everyone in this form, equally. Perhaps God was once whole but decided it wanted to experience itself, so when it turned in on this thought it created the big bang - and then all these separate aspects of itself was created, souls ready for experience. Perhaps we are all one and our separatness is an illusion...

Perhaps our higher self will appearto us to save our life or teach us something in the form of a teacher, a child, an angel or even an animal.

I wouldn't be suprised if some entities do hang around waiting for people to worship them as God and fool them into thinking so.

[Tutor]

hello,

given the power of a personal belief, a group belief magnified, a national/cultural belief; an 'idea' of a 'believed reality' (ideology) is ultimately open to being disproved, or debunked. how so? simply by another's power of belief, or group, or nation/culture.

however, this does not disprove, as in the dalai lama's proof of no judeo-christian god; that G-d is not. it merely debunks the dogma and doctrine held in belief of, or the personal and interpersonally accepted limits, vs. any other accepted ideology.

G-d is, for example, thought/language/idea (reasoning/logic)...arising to human reason that is both consciously and unconsciously bound in dualistic and most often duplistic fields of pre-existing divine reason. being human is being a cause within a greater causal field/fields.

at any rate, a healthy relationship is at it's best when released from labels/titles, ideo-logical thoughts born of predisposition via acculturation, based within experiential evidence which is not self-evident proofs as per upwards of 7-8 billion myriad incarnations mutually present as human kind.

certainly we as collective mankind have reached our peak of absurdity, when 'god' is tossed around as if discussing which current cell phone thrown into the brevity of market, is the best possessing all the bells and whistles most suitable to any given personal 'ideal perspective' desiring of functionality unique to itself alone.

for example, how could one know that a lama goes into retirement? did the child choose/accept the lama, or did the lama reincarnate as the child? if the latter, then how does the 'individual' choose such course? but of course, upon 'fat' book sales. dear tibet,...so long and best wishes from the restaurant at the end of the universe.

if for one second we could somehow look at all this outlying 'believed' reality, we might see that all of it is by beliefs humanly upheld. then seeing beyond that veil, we might recognize that which ever stands around us, et all, upheld without any mere thoughts held by mankind's whimsically absurd reasoning.

plant acorns all day, and oaks are what you get in response to human effort. yet, et all, does not require us to plant acorns, as that task pre-exists our absurd authoritative analysis.

it is historically referenced that upon arrival to the new world (america), a squirrel could travel from the eastern coastline to the plains, without ever leaving the tree tops. i am presently aware that this is not a present possibility, due to our 'beliefs' about resources, and the denuding of natural landscape in a matter of a hundred years or so. not to mention the massive erosion loosed upon a virginal ground no longer able to uphold in it's unatural uprooted state of absurdity postulating 'god's' mission upon a 'new world' at the expense of the pre-existant old nature.

it takes a thousand years for nature to produce 1 inch of topsoil. for every 5 gallons of water used locally, 1 gallon remains locally, while 4 escape due to local inability to retain water via erosive runoff. quite literally one drinks/uses the sewage treatment plant's output upriver.

as a test, take about five minutes, stand in your bathroom, and contemplate the commode, where the ideo-logy of out of sight out of mind, with a simple flush, keeps us believably free of consequential self-evident truth, while pondering from said porcelain throne. i can't imagine how the latest handheld techno-advancement is going to impact a positive change, much less allow a G-d free of inane thoughted reasoning, when in point of fact, that which deduces 'god' as believable/unbelievable cannot see past the convenient instant disappearance of it's waste.

do i believe in God? if i do, let me root this 'idea' out, such that pre-existent nature might root back in.

tim

[Sinera]

„I say, if one knows anything in God and affixes any name to it, that is not God.“
- Meister Eckhart

„The Tao that can be expressed is not the eternal Tao.“
- Lao Tse

[natalie-1984]

"You know you have created God in your likeness when he hates all the same people you do"

-love that one!

[susan]

Just a thought, not a clever one at that.If I had been born on a desolate island with no wisdom to the idea of a god,and I had heavy vibrations before an out of body exit, I would be thinking of a power far more powerful than I could understand. Maybe god is not a he (or she) but a power far more intelligent than our human brain can understand. Just a silly thought.

[SleepGOTweird]

God is something that I have tried to live without. But I keep searching for our relevance as a species, and how much it hurts when I shy I away from that search. For me, there has to be a test for us humans, and if not, then I am very worried and distraught by the current and meaningless (terribly cruel) existence we have been captive to; but this is something I no longer believe.

I can no longer believe this place to be my home, and refuse the best this current paradigm has to offer. I am holding out for something more. I am holding out for true leadership.

I do not trust myself, and the best, most brilliant and beautiful creations of my imagination are not respected by me; they only add to my suffocation.

I believe in god because I have to. There is nothing that I understand, only that there are threads sewn into this world that have tainted it, by DESIGN.

[astral_1976]

Possibilities are endless...If you wish for a God, you will find one. Once you find it and continue to look for then you will find the God of the God. This is endless.
When I had my first OBE, I thought , this is it...This is the ultimate reality. Now, I realize that this could only be a very tiny part of it. There should be even more deeper reality and it is soooo deep that there is no end. It will continue as much as you can handle it.
Whatever you looking for, you will find it. Like scientists, they will look for smaller and smaller particles, as long as they look, they will find even smaller particles than exotic particles. It will never stop, because everything is just a probability. God, you, me, existence, astral planes, and other realities beyond consciousness and astral planes, beyond thoughts...there are more as long as we can discover...

[Tutor]

what is there to be dis-covered, beyond your gathered 'self' within and without, caught slap dab in the middle of it? there is your beginning and end, as You, as you presently are, pontificating the self-excusing neglegible journey of self-centered interests exclusive of 'all else' while claiming this undiscovered discoverable 'all else' as human excuse. know thyself, as this self known is under-standably everything that said 'self' would of a notion in gatherance of notions...BE.

[SleepGOTweird]

Tutor, wouldn't you agree that there is a narrative with very important players working behind the scenes?

If so, where are we in this narrative?

In finding our connection with god, do we suddenly become god? In finding your connection with me, do I suddenly cease to exist? Does in understanding that you and I share a common energy source mean you are me?

[ButterflyWoman]

I realise you addressed these questions to Tim, and I trust him to answer them in his own irreplicable way, but I felt a spark of inspiration and wanted to make a few comments. Take for what it's worth (which may be nothing at all ;)).


If so, where are we in this narrative?
We're all creating our own narrative. We do it on auto-pilot, for the most part. The unified nature of Consciousness allows us to weave other narratives into our own, as well.


In finding our connection with god, do we suddenly become god?
The realisation is not usually sudden. But, yes. Except that we also understand that "god" is probably not what our ego-self thought god was, in the same sense that the ego-self must come to recognise that it is not what it thought itself to be.


In finding your connection with me, do I suddenly cease to exist?
Nothing ever ceases to exist. But it's a weird question. Why would discovering one's personal connection to another cause destruction or death? I don't understand the question, I guess.


Does in understanding that you and I share a common energy source mean you are me?
In a sense, but it's more that we are made of the same "stuff". We each have and ARE a unique perspective with a unique narrative. No two narratives are precisely the same, and no two viewpoints are precisely the same. So, no, you are not Tim and Tim is not you, any more than the cup on my desk is my chair. But it's all generated from and part of the exact same Source, and, ultimately, all Consciousness is One Consciousness.

Just as a side note, this is not something I read somewhere or picked up from a guru or anything else like that. This is what I experience and live, and I've just had a rather significant (and very subtle) shift of perspective, so I felt uniquely positioned to comment just at the moment, while the blush and glow of this new perspective is still shiny and fresh in my conscious awareness.

[LeCosmic]

When I first got interested in OBE's, and had some success with them, I started to lean towards believing in God, mostly because I accepted that I had a soul, which was I assumed the method of travel during my exits. I think I was foolish to link the two things together.

I do not believe in God, not in any of the big well know ones, or any of the smaller ones. There simply isn't any evidence that is strong enough and big enough to support such a massive claim.

You have to look at the idea of God in a historical sense, to get some perspective on it. There are so many to choose from, and for the most part they cancel each other out, so they can't all be real. Who here now believes in Zeus or Thor or any of the other dead Gods who used to be in perfectly good standing amoungst our ancesters, but who now lie dead in that mass Diety grave we call mythology.

But then I've never had any experiences of a God, not personal experience, like feeling the power of the Holy spirit etc.

[Tutor]

Tutor, wouldn't you agree that there is a narrative with very important players working behind the scenes?

If so, where are we in this narrative?

In finding our connection with god, do we suddenly become god? In finding your connection with me, do I suddenly cease to exist? Does in understanding that you and I share a common energy source mean you are me?

hi SGOTW,

tough question. CPW answered it with apparent understanding. wow

the story: once upon a time - and they lived happily ever after

you may accept from your centrality wherefrom past and future radially emerge to flow out and return to integrate, like a breath, have in this precognitive sense, completed the story from beginning to end; such that 'once upon a time' and 'happily ever after' are both a done deal.

however, central in and of you are. so, it is about awakening to receiving yours in return as it were you whom emergently sent it out.

do we suddenly become god? hmmm, does one suddenl become their Mother, their Father? no, but often it is that a the next generation of parent will suddenly awaken to, and most often in disgust, "omg, i am my mother!". boom

but this brings peace when it is integrated properly. for it were only that which we misunderstood, that which had not yet endured, that separated us from our parent's seemingly ridiculous rules of thumb; and when we awaken to the same ridiculousness flowing fom ourselves, well needless to say life has it's profound ironys.

are we each other? thank goodness no we are not. but we are of the same while our in the same allows us individuality. our separateness is of the world only, and we are ever within a "world", an endless story. but a story that seems as disconnected as would every book held in the library of congress, they only related through the human authorship, yet everybit representative of altogether relative human growth.

is a cell in your big toe you? is a cell in your liver you? is a cell in your brain you? all yes, identifiably you, down to the very dna that is uniquely your signature. like that are we all relative in the world, as well as of god - one body of humanity.

the problem here stems from 'thinking' god is excluded in the world (place). this has to do with each, as well as with all, that are presently in the world, all undeniably of god whether they think god is or not.

let's look at the arc of the covenant stolen from the temple long ago in 'the story', never to be returned. the first child born was named ichabod which means the lord has left the temple. the lord was out in the world. the metaphor here is, that the perceived enemy suddenly arrived, captured, and took away the lord from the temple and out into the world. this is aligned with 'why bad things happen to good people', wherein there is no such thing as a bad person, persons merely have bad habits. these habits, behaviorally conditioned, exemplify the perceived enemy outlying that would come capture the lord in your temple (your body). so, this is about perceptions and how the world unalterably reflects what is denied from within, as if the bastard children of our heart's discontent would come visit from without.

so, we look at the world right now, outlying, seeing all the frightening unfoldings; and we may surmise that the enemy has arrived to capture from within the lord and bring him out into the world. for through us is this second advent, from within us to that that which is 'without' and grave need of god in the world out-lying.

i am out of time, got to run....later

tim

[ButterflyWoman]

CPW answered it with apparent understanding. wow
No need to act so surprised, mon frere! :wink: :) :D :lol: :P

[Tutor]

CPW answered it with apparent understanding. wow
No need to act so surprised, mon frere! :wink: :) :D :lol: :P

not surprised ButterflyGirl, but equally aroused, and just gathering in your climactic scope of insightul winged voice, ma soeur! :wink:

the following is a corny lil song, but the child in me loves it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7M-dwj5 ... 019AFC7F4D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7M-dwj5fig&playnext=1&list=PLE8AE11019AFC7F4D)

[SleepGOTweird]

Tutor, wouldn't you agree that there is a narrative with very important players working behind the scenes?

If so, where are we in this narrative?

In finding our connection with god, do we suddenly become god? In finding your connection with me, do I suddenly cease to exist? Does in understanding that you and I share a common energy source mean you are me?

hi SGOTW,

tough question. CPW answered it with apparent understanding. wow

the story: once upon a time - and they lived happily ever after

you may accept from your centrality wherefrom past and future radially emerge to flow out and return to integrate, like a breath, have in this precognitive sense, completed the story from beginning to end; such that 'once upon a time' and 'happily ever after' are both a done deal.

however, central in and of you are. so, it is about awakening to receiving yours in return as it were you whom emergently sent it out.

do we suddenly become god? hmmm, does one suddenl become their Mother, their Father? no, but often it is that a the next generation of parent will suddenly awaken to, and most often in disgust, "omg, i am my mother!". boom

but this brings peace when it is integrated properly. for it were only that which we misunderstood, that which had not yet endured, that separated us from our parent's seemingly ridiculous rules of thumb; and when we awaken to the same ridiculousness flowing fom ourselves, well needless to say life has it's profound ironys.

are we each other? thank goodness no we are not. but we are of the same while our in the same allows us individuality. our separateness is of the world only, and we are ever within a "world", an endless story. but a story that seems as disconnected as would every book held in the library of congress, they only related through the human authorship, yet everybit representative of altogether relative human growth.

is a cell in your big toe you? is a cell in your liver you? is a cell in your brain you? all yes, identifiably you, down to the very dna that is uniquely your signature. like that are we all relative in the world, as well as of god - one body of humanity.

the problem here stems from 'thinking' god is excluded in the world (place). this has to do with each, as well as with all, that are presently in the world, all undeniably of god whether they think god is or not.

let's look at the arc of the covenant stolen from the temple long ago in 'the story', never to be returned. the first child born was named ichabod which means the lord has left the temple. the lord was out in the world. the metaphor here is, that the perceived enemy suddenly arrived, captured, and took away the lord from the temple and out into the world. this is aligned with 'why bad things happen to good people', wherein there is no such thing as a bad person, persons merely have bad habits. these habits, behaviorally conditioned, exemplify the perceived enemy outlying that would come capture the lord in your temple (your body). so, this is about perceptions and how the world unalterably reflects what is denied from within, as if the bastard children of our heart's discontent would come visit from without.

so, we look at the world right now, outlying, seeing all the frightening unfoldings; and we may surmise that the enemy has arrived to capture from within the lord and bring him out into the world. for through us is this second advent, from within us to that that which is 'without' and grave need of god in the world out-lying.

i am out of time, got to run....later

tim

But if you are undeniably you, and I am still me, then that means that god exists, (or can exist), even if you don't believe.

If we each have our own story, then so does god. And as far as I've checked, am I not my creator. I am me.

Sometimes I ask for your wisdom as a way of asking for help, and right now I need gods help. I need someone that can help me find my way when I can't possibly have strength to do so without.

I'd like to think that earth is what unites us and our seemingly unrelated stories. We all have our own preferences, and hobbies that seperates us from each other, but we're all together under god's one wing.

[Tutor]

But if you are undeniably you, and I am still me, then that means that god exists, (or can exist), even if you don't believe.

If we each have our own story, then so does god. And as far as I've checked, am I not my creator. I am me.

Sometimes I ask for your wisdom as a way of asking for help, and right now I need gods help. I need someone that can help me find my way when I can't possibly have strength to do so without.

I'd like to think that earth is what unites us and our seemingly unrelated stories. We all have our own preferences, and hobbies that seperates us from each other, but we're all together under god's one wing.

i am afraid i dont have much beyond foolishness friend. suffice to say we are human enough, with BIG questions about everything but the 'answer' which while thinking itself as insignificant...asks them all. odd as that is :idea:

be well,

tim

[SleepGOTweird]

be well,

tim

Thank You.

You do the same.

[ButterflyWoman]

But if you are undeniably you, and I am still me, then that means that god exists, (or can exist), even if you don't believe.
Actually, it's a sort of paradox (at least from the material perspective). It is simultaneously "uniquely you" and "only one", all at once.


If we each have our own story, then so does god. And as far as I've checked, am I not my creator. I am me.
You still seem to be going on the assumption that "god" is some separate, distinct being. I understand that perspective very well, but my experience of recent years indicate that "god" is in fact, ALL. So ALL narratives are god. My story, your story, Tim's story, the story attached to the two leopard slugs who live in my front garden and come out at night to leave trails on the front step. I'm not actually the slug, but god is the slug. And god is me. And Tim.


I'd like to think that earth is what unites us and our seemingly unrelated stories.
The earth has its own story, too. And it is also god.


We all have our own preferences, and hobbies that seperates us from each other, but we're all together under god's one wing.
We're all god.

[ButterflyWoman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7M-dwj5fig&playnext=1&list=PLE8AE11019AFC7F4D
Thank you for that. It's lovely, and it speaks to me on many levels.

[Serpentarius]

1. Do you believe in God, as in a literal, separate being with it's own personality, and can talk?
2. Have you seen such a being?


If by God you mean the Abrahamic one (YHWH), then:
1. No
2. No

If we define a god as a being of immense power greatly above human possibilities, then I have never met an entity which would even remotely deserve to be called a god, not by a long shot.

[ButterflyWoman]

my opinion only...
You're welcome to your own opinions, certainly. And it is not my purpose or intention or desire to change your (or anyone else's) opinions. (Though I do seem to have a tendency to challenge people's beliefs/opinions, I don't usually do that intentionally or consciously.)

What I wrote on the Wholeness of God (i.e., God is ALL, God is everywhere, God is us, etc.) is not actually an opinion. It's an interpretation of my direct experience. Although once I did, I no longer can subscribe to the idea of a discrete, separated entity/being who is "God", because it is not my experience any more.

I still use the word God because I happen to like it, but you can just as easily substitute: Spirit, Self (not self), Source, Universal Consciousness, etc. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the term "panentheist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism)" is one which mostly describes my interpretation of my present experience of life, the universe, and everything (which, of course, includes God).

So with anything I write, people should just really just take it for what it's worth to them, from their present understanding and in their present state of mind and self-realisation. Really, that should be a standard disclaimer on all my posts (on most people's posts!). "Take it for what it's worth. Your mileage may vary".

And there is no point at all in me defending my life experience. My interpretation of my life experience is what it is, and it may change as I accumulate more experience/understanding, etc. The narrative of my life, that is, my life story, simply is what it is, and it's from that experience (or, rather, my perspective on it) that I speak.


but thats like saying we are our parents in this life time we did'nt give birth to them...
Only from a certain perspective. From other perspectives, it's nothing at all like that.

When I experience God, I see all of creation, and when I look at any aspect of creation, I perceive God. and I see all of Creation. I am not excluded from the rest of Creation, nor is the leopard slug who leaves trails on my front step nor are you or anyone or anything else. For me, now, it's really as simple as that. It is what I see, live, and experience. There is ONE, and everything within our ability to experience is an iteration of the One, and therefore still One.

Take it for what it's worth. Your mileage may vary.

[newfreedom]

Hi all, Hi CW

Your new avatar picture is very impactful CW, i have to ask is that you in the photo ?? :)


I still use the word God because I happen to like it, but you can just as easily substitute: Spirit, Self (not self), Source, Universal Consciousness, etc.

Yes, i have a comfort with the word GOD too and as a child i would always talk to God in my head and constantly ask him for all my desires to be met........ i guess i always felt received and that 'they' / HE was always there listening and understanding and knowing ,,,,,,,,,, i don't remember ever him talking back or answering with a voice, and somethings i asked for i got and others things i didn't, and so at times i had to make do with only imagining my desires, dreams and wishes and i would find forfulment doing this too.

My favourite 'describing' word for God is ------ 'the All That IS'
I also like 'the creator' though there are apparently lots of different creators and also Creators of creators

So i guess what i mean by Creator is the Creator of this multiverse (and again i do not really know how much, or what is considered this multiverse or that of another- Haha!)


When I experience God, I see all of creation, and when I look at any aspect of creation, I perceive God. and I see all of Creation. I am not excluded from the rest of Creation, nor is the leopard slug who leaves trails on my front step nor are you or anyone or anything else. For me, now, it's really as simple as that. It is what I see, live, and experience.

I love this perspective because at times i have held this perspective tooo and when i do i am just 'so in my element' it's estatic....and so very peaceful, expansive, timeless and secure (and COOL 8) )
X.

[ButterflyWoman]

Your new avatar picture is very impactful CW, i have to ask is that you in the photo ?? :)
It is. Highly Photoshopped. ;)


My favourite 'describing' word for God is ------ 'the All That IS'
Me, too.


I also like 'the creator' though there are apparently lots of different creators and also Creators of creators
The paradox is that the Creator is the Creation and the Creation is self-Creating. Or so it seems to me at my present perspective and experience.

[CFTraveler]

I like to borrow the phrase "God creates by extension".

[Tutor]

:D
tim

[newfreedom]

I also love the term-

'all of existence'

as another subsitute word for God...

Do any of tyou know this site ?

http://www.godchannel.com/

I found this site around 2005 and was deeply 'into' it for about 2 yrs..
I just loved it's explaination of all things and reading the expressions of 'the mother' fragments as written by people ( it seems they had a type of forum or place where you could leave comments for a while, but it closed) was very illuminating for me..

:mrgreen: :!:

Her's another link for a fun God website.....
http://godchecker.wordpress.com/

Have Fun xx

[SleepGOTweird]

:D
tim

?

Is it coming back?

[Tutor]

:D
tim

?

Is it coming back?

never left. it's me, as I am. I feel as if i've said/done something wrong, so I delete. nothing personal with any other/s.

i'm working on it...

tim

[yortyort]

Hey everybody :D
I read through the thread and was very interested and intrigued by all of these responses. A few people mentioned how the Dalai Lama proved a Judeo-Christian God to be false. What did he provide as reasons for this? I would be very interested in hearing.


God is something that I have tried to live without. But I keep searching for our relevance as a species, and how much it hurts when I shy I away from that search. For me, there has to be a test for us humans, and if not, then I am very worried and distraught by the current and meaningless (terribly cruel) existence we have been captive to; but this is something I no longer believe.

I can no longer believe this place to be my home, and refuse the best this current paradigm has to offer. I am holding out for something more. I am holding out for true leadership.

I have thought a few times that possibly there is nothing more than we see. When I get this idea in my head I get a sick feeling in my heart and third eye( not sure why my third eye though). I know that there has to be something greater, a divine. I am a very strong Christian believer most of the time, but recently I am realizing that my faith may be coming as fear that I will be wrong if I don't believe. This is obviosuly not a good way to view "Him". I need to find my truth by myself, and know that the textbook Christianity cannot be completely true. I believe that God is the "essence" of everybody and all spirits, but s/he/it is somewhat of a seperate entity watching over everything. I am very young and still looking for my faith, and probably/hopefully won't discover it for a loooong time. I don't have much to say on this subject other than that, but maybe someday I'll look back on this post and see how differently I view this subject.
Troy :mrgreen:

[CFTraveler]

I read through the thread and was very interested and intrigued by all of these responses. A few people mentioned how the Dalai Lama proved a Judeo-Christian God to be false. What did he provide as reasons for this? I would be very interested in hearing. I have the Dalai Lama's autobiography and have read many things that he has written. I never saw him say that (which is not to say that he didn't say it, it just means I've never read anything like that from him directly. I've obviously not read everything he's written).
However, I have read him (and others say something a little different) and that is that-

1- The religion of the middle east at the time of Jesus was more similar to eastern thought than to western thought
2- The God of Jesus' belief was more like the eastern mystics' belief than the god of modern christian belief- because the people of the time of Abraham had a tribal system in which each tribe had their own god, and all tribes (and city states, etc.) had their own deity, so that in whole the system was polytheistic but each tribe has it's own 'god', and when you visited another place, the first thing you did was visit the 'god' and offer something- and that the god that developed in those times was a patriarchal god that ruled 'his or her' tribe.
But when Jesus came, his vision of the divine was different and mystical- he didn't objectify god but preached that God was in everyone and was his/our father- that is, we are 'of God' and not the prevailing belief.
So the version of God Jesus had was more 'mystical' (he went into the 'wilderness' to commune with God, meditating in solitude before doing anything important, and taught people to pray 'in silence and in private'. Sound familiar?

But the idea that modern fundamentalist christianity has of an objectified god is more like Zeus/Jupiter in that he is seen as a limited entity with human likes and dislikes, a bad temper and a desire for revenge, a gender, while the God of Jesus,is closer to the idea what eastern mystics have of a greater reality or 'higher power'.

It's not the same as saying the other thing, but I supposed it could be interpreted that way.
Interpretation is very interesting.

[yortyort]

Yes, Thanks CF. I have definitely come to make my "own" beliefs about Christianity. I have decided that God is much greater than others think such as that God is a gender. I have come to believe that God is an entity with no gender. Also, I have "realized" that God does not have feelings or emotions like we do and he is filled with Love.
Well, thanks for the feedback. I didn't know about that tribal religion that Christianity had started from...
Thanks :D
Troy

[CFTraveler]

I didn't know about that tribal religion that Christianity had started from... No no, I said Judaism came from tribal religions- the god of Abraham was a tribal god, just like all the other gods in the middle east. Before Abraham all the people in biblical times worshipped tribal gods, and at some point they chose the one called YHWH. There are ancient tablets (I used to have a picture, but I don't know if it's in the internet, since it's from a book- an old one, lol) in which there are gods (like Ahura Mazda) which had a certain appearance, and the picture of the one with the tetragrammaton looked like the top of Ahura Mazda but with snake legs, and sort of wings. At some point the tribe of Abraham decided to stick with that one and not pay homage to any other tribal gods, and thus monotheism was born (except for in Egypt, where Akhenaton established monotheism and was killed and his memories struck from the records, but that's another post.)
Anyway, the israelites then established that they would not worship any other god except for this one, and this is the religion Jesus grew up in- a monotheistic religion based on feudalism, where god was seen as the ancestor-king which is why they called him Adonai, which means Lord. When we pray to 'the Lord' we are simply following in their view of their god, as a feudal lord who gives you your land if you pay tribute. A reflection of how things worked back then.
Jesus however, had a very different idea- he changed the idea of God as a 'Father', making us 'his' children, not his subjects.

Just clarifying.

[yortyort]

Ok, thanks lol. And I actually learned about Akhenaton this year lol But that is very interesting!

[ButterflyWoman]

Just as an added note, the Hebrews didn't just have a masculine god. There was also his counterpart and consort, the goddess. In a good many tribes she was Asherah (you can still find her mentioned in the Bible, though usually in discouraging tones, because the priests and scribes and other lawmakers were not only patriarchal, they wanted to keep the Hebrews from falling into some of the goddess-worship behaviour of near neighbors, which the Hebrew clergy found immoral).

There are a few good books on this topic, the best being "The Hebrew Goddess" by Jewish historian and anthropologist Raphael Patai. It's kind of heavy reading (the author is an academic and it shows) but it's worth getting through if you're interested in the topic.

A Google search for Asherah will turn up a lot of interesting information, too, including pictures of the many, many statues of her that have been turned up in archeological digs. She's usually shown holding her breasts, demonstrating not only a mother goddess aspect but that she is "the breasted one", as opposed to the masculine counterpart.

There are plenty of traces of the goddess in the Bible, as well, sometimes overtly (where god is referred to as a mother and the people as her suckling child) and sometimes subtly (which you might need to read the Hebrew to pick up the reference to "she" and "her").

Not sure why I felt like sharing that, but it seemed appropriate with CFT's discussion of the tribal nature of the ancient Hebrews. It's fascinating to follow how Middle-Eastern tribal gods (most commonly in male-female pairs) got turned into a masculine emperor-of-the-universe figure with a bad temper. ;)

[SleepGOTweird]

Also, I have "realized" that God does not have feelings or emotions like we do and he is filled with Love.


Why don't you believe that god has feelings?

[Tutor]

i feel that the human tendency to see religious history in the literal context alone, is the failure to grasp that same story indwelling of oneself. words like 'tribalism' seem far and away from our techno-modern culture, however, tribalism is alive and well even within the most advanced of our current human global world.

tribalism merely indicates the myriad outlying nature powers, from mankind given to these powers anthropomorphic identitys/names. mankind (himself) gives power to these naturals, so much so as promote the unnatural agency of power to an exponential growth. mankind then consequentially finds (himself) as the feet of Himself, for without (his) beliefs, said natural powers in the balance would have worked in (his) stead/dominion.

therefore, dominion...is more at mankind owning what is mankind's potent power that would exponentially contrive an unnatural world. ergo, we moderns are slap dab in the midst of our own unravelling unnaturality, if you will.

to say that the hebrew one god through abraham was birthed of tribalism is correct, yet not of tribalism was the One God; as this One God represents the end of tribalism, or that which mankind feeds exponentially. ergo, through abraham is given peace and rest to mankind would (he) but hold that god goven dominion over (his) own potent co-creativeness (belief).

"idea's" like 'god has no emotion'...are like 'thinking' the literality alone, wherein the 'thinker' is a separation from what is god, god being that source of potent human power that through mankind does exponentially give to what otherwise owned in and of mankind, that inordinant unnatural power which through mankind also undoes mankind in a cyclical folly.

thus, the importance and understanding of this One God which abraham introduces through Himself, as that which through man is co-creativeness held under dominion by a godly man (human). also read narada sutras.

essentially You, and all as each within mankind/everyone, are individually 'accountable and responsible' (dominion) to that which is potent source from within...indwelling, making it's way through to our shared world. ergo, emotional being first and foremost, unto physical, wrought of mental, all leads cyclically back to spiritual. if 'this' is not godly, one is thrown against the proverbial wall of 'your stuff' undone, for it bears no resemblance to real. real being personal accountability and responsibility for one's et all, even to say, that finding oneself at the ends of themself, that surrender and forgiveness is the only default order which may 'restore' the issue of past remaining as un-redoable. reclamation is the potent possibility, while a re-do is not. thus is to reap what is sown, regardless of what is 'your stuff', from pos - neg.

looking to the outlying alone, the literality of language to name, to give sounded expression toward descriptive reasoning, one is far removed from the one power which from source through themself is the agency of doing from being. again, therefore is abraham's one god, which through himself births order where noneelse may be found outlying of that which Being is as the doer.

consciously tap that indwelling being which from within IS and through You is your's 'not stuff', but rather IS co-creation, meaning and purpose oned (truth) through that one which is ever YOU, living and giving to life.

reading this post back through, i am not sure that it makes sense...

tim

[CFTraveler]

to say that the hebrew one god through abraham was birthed of tribalism is correct, yet not of tribalism was the One God; as this One God represents the end of tribalism, or that which mankind feeds exponentially. ergo, through abraham is given peace and rest to mankind would (he) but hold that god goven dominion over (his) own potent co-creativeness (belief).
I agree. But many institutions have taken this little piece of history and denied these roots, for the purpose of justifying things that they have done, and I think it's good that this be a reminder of it. It's hard to explain, when I'm feeling better I can go into detail of what I'm trying to say here.

"idea's" like 'god has no emotion'...are like 'thinking' the literality alone, wherein the 'thinker' is a separation from what is god, god being that source of potent human power that through mankind does exponentially give to what otherwise owned in and of mankind, that inordinant unnatural power which through mankind also undoes mankind in a cyclical folly. I like to say that the idea of God has no emotion, because emotion is feedback, and God is all, but i also like to say that God has emotions through us- when we have pain God is pain, when we are happy God is happiness, and Love- So both opposites are true, because God is all. But not just all.

[IronGega]

Hi,

Do you believe in God, as in a literal, separate being with it's own personality, and can talk? Have you seen such a being?

I thought that most people here would believe that we are all one consciousness, and there is nothing separate, and outside of ourselves, except for illusion.

Or, do you guys use the term God as a metaphor for pantheistic beliefs?

Monroes' works, and here is an interesting experience with an astral entity that claimed to be God. It's a hard read on a forum, as it doesn't give a clear indication of who is
THoughts? Much appreciated.

to tell you the truth I'm not 100% on how to answer that.... I mainly keep to myself whn this question is asked because I don't know how to fully explain what I think.

I don't beleive in a god, I beleive in God. meaning I don't but my faith in a religion's gods or god. I beleive in a Creator of things, a almighty maker of all things. Who is both seperate and connected to everyone in the same why we are all seperate and connected to each other.

Technically I'm a Christian, because christianity is not a religion, it's about a relationship with the creator on a personal level.

I beleive The almight is a living thing but differnet, alive in the same way a tree is alive and different that it doesn't eat or breath the way I do, but it's still alive.

I guess I use the word "god' to describe better what I'm talking about. even though I think God is a made up term to describe something that can't be described.

[Tutor]

I like to say that the idea of God has no emotion, because emotion is feedback, and God is all, but i also like to say that God has emotions through us- when we have pain God is pain, when we are happy God is happiness, and Love- So both opposites are true, because God is all. But not just all.

CFT! you've hit the nail on the head.

emotion as a 'feedback'...why? as the wailing wall is.

i see emotion as that which feeds in, the world outlying being that 'inn'. backwards and unturned 'thinking' is what lands us in the outlying ideation alone, with our indwelling first being always outed, or ousted.

that which is within first is that which is outside (caged) of the world we are within outlying. turn these terms to work inwardly for you. seek the kingdom within first, seen/scene, it cannot be missed in that which now out-trued had been 'without' as out-lying. yet, it were you, your feed in, that 'it' were (consciously aware) without...all along.

tim

[SleepGOTweird]

I believe god has been through too much. My morals (still developing) come from my direct connection to god.

I will no longer deny god love from me outwardly.

I will openly love god for all the blessings god has given me throughout this dark period of human consciousness.

I no longer want to be rude or take god for granted, because we are very blessed to have god with us through and through.

My blessings and gifts will be credited to god, and my mistakes that cause suffering, and my pains, will be attributed to what is left--some of that is a mystery, but alot of it isn't.

I hope for peace and prosperity for all, regardless of one's allegiances and leanings.

[CFTraveler]

I hope for peace and prosperity for all, regardless of one's allegiances and leanings. Ditto there, IG.

[Aunt Clair]

I believe in God which is a never incarnate sentient Divine Energy and a Mother and Father Godhead which are incarnate on diverse worlds as avatars and in the Elohimic fingers of Godhead which are avatars in diverse cultures and are their emanations.
They continue to teach and love all of us. I recall meeting them as a child. I have met so many in dreamstate and in meditative trance. I have seen them and heard them while in the company of other mystic magicians. Our physical life is the illusion. They are the reality.

[Gemma]

I believe there is a creator who created this universe and everything in it. The sum of all of us equals this creator. In short, we are fragments of this creator. I also suspect there are other creators who have created their own creations, and I suspect there is a creator who created this creator. Perhaps it's like a long chain with other chains branching off.

[alphadracooverlord]

There is a universal force manifesting itself in what could be called a high priest. The high priest is the representative for the universal force. That's what I think the bible refers to as father and son. It is a very close relationship.