The real key to effectively manipulate energy.

[DarkCloud]

Okay, when it comes to energy, there are so many applications of it is scary. Many people have different ways of using it, different belief systems on what it really is, and especially how to effectively manipulate it.

Some like to choose visualization.

Some prefer more "tactile" systems such as NEW.

And some prefer other methods ( I won't name them, as they other two above seem to be the most popular and the most common.)

The question is, which one of this appliciations is more effective? Most of you , I have know doubt, will probably think you ( speculation of course), and who can blame you? It's a good system with many benefits. Kudos to Robert Bruce.

But does that mean visualization is in-effective? Certianally no. That is, if you use the right way of visualising and realize its only a mental/visual aid to help you get a better awareness of the force that is , and as always been, inside of us.

Now, in my opinion, I disagree that NEW is much more effective than visualization is manipulating energy. What it all boils down to, is the will of that person. Simply.

I think we all agree (those of us who have'd history with energy work) that energy follows your intentions and can be in some ways, controlled by thought? But what makes one person better than the other? Its not that they use NEW, its not that they visualize but their state of MIND.

All you really have to do to move energy, is to will it too. But, the problem with that is that some people's will's are well , lets face it, pretty weak. And therefore need more development and more focus than some others.

If you like to feel energy rather than try to visualize it, your still doing what the other person who is visualizing is doing, right?

And I know, there are those type of people who take stuff like visualizing and run off with it and get carried away.

But what I want you to realize is, that, with any given system, some idiot will think "Hey, since people say this more effective, I'll be able to shoot GIANT blast and by able to turn into a super saiyan". There. No matter where you go, somebody will always be there to turn something so simple and make it complicated. *sigh*

Anyway...back to what I was saying. NEW, visualizing, and etc are just like aids to help you become aware, then using your willpower to move it.

In the end, its not the methods themselves that determine how your growth in energy is, but you yourself. Your will.

[jalef]

i agree. the energy body is developed by moving awaereness through you body. visualization or tactile imagination are just aids for doing this. i stoped using tactile imagination because for me it is easier to move my awareness directly. for many people its easyer to learn a technique such as NEW first for doing this but the effect is the same.

[Matthew]

Besides the "tactile" systems of NEW and chi kung, I have worked with visualizations, flashing color tablets and sounds, and spagyrics (Western plant alchemy) to affect the energy body.

Visualizations led to some profound interior states, but the problem I had was that I could not tell exactly how much progress I was making. I could tell that my ability to visualize was improving and that my experiences were more profound, but what exactly were the consequences to my energy body?

I had the same question with flashing color tablets and sounds. These exercises may have performed some subtle activity in my chakras, but the most I experienced was an overall sense of being energized.

The results with spagyrics were phenomenal. Alchemical tinctures and plant stones produced profound changes in consciousness and amazing energetic phenomena in my body. However, I feel that prayer and meditation had still not prepared me for dealing with the effects.... very powerful. Quite a bit of chi kung practice helped me cope with this energy influx.

I have found chi kung and NEW to be very helpful for people in that these systems teach you how to "feel" the energy body. With this direct experience, you are able to chart your progress and to tell whether your efforts are producing the results you desire. With this in mind, I believe that these systems are better than strickly visualization-based practices. But, I am, of course, willing to have someone explain to me why my views should be otherwise.

-Matthew

[LuciaUruguay]

:P :D JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA.. I really like this post :) Yes, Robert Bruce methos is THE method, I am not joking, the guides told me that an Angel indeed teach him the method in order to hel us cleanse the energy. After you cleanse the energy body then you have to use your intuition and ideas that pop up (litterally, you know it) Any way, they told me that Anime shows indeed show lots of abbilties that are gonna be able for almost anyone in the next year. I always wanted to do a KamKam HAAAA!! .. I did it the other day, and a big ball, jaja, the guides where loguhing a lots with the other spirits that whre int he place, jajajaj, They say that there was no problem with that energy ball because it ONLY hurts demons (they exist though I never saw any of them) and negs spirits (yes, I had problems witth thats, my fault but my guide Gautama had to kik him out of my place, then I did the sanctuary, so only good and neutral spirits can pass thru it. Advice, give authrization for ALL good spirits to do thing on your body (all of them), they helped me a lot with my senusitis!)

Lol, oh man that was a good post to read. Is the JAJAJA laughter? :p

When I'm working with NEW I at first was resisting the visualization as I was trying to follow exactly what Robert had said to do. silly me. I was getting visual hints at energy blockages but I was ignoring them as I was tryign to focus just on the tactile.

I get stuff like I'll be working on my arm and then I'll see my arm falling off at the shoulder, I'll reconnect it. As soo as my awareness goes over it again it falls off!

I am beggining to just merge these two senses now with the work. Thanks for the posts as it just clears up my lack of confidence in my self! Seems silly to think about how unconfident I was even a few days ago. Growing so fast!

:D

[DarkCloud]

Visualization is not limited to just "seeing". Over the years, I have found a major misconception on how it works. It can also pertain to "feeling" or "hearing"...Basically, using your imagination to trigger a reaction. Example, one can imagine "hearing" their energy rush through them. Or imagine a certian sensation moving through them, whatever they believe energy feels like. The more one focuses on things like these, the more noticable the become to that individual.

Also, when visualizing, all you have to do is have 100% confidence it what your doing. Washing away any and all doubt will do wonders for you in well, any energy practice.

I knew that NEW deals with directly with simulating the primary and secondary systems by focusing one's awareness.

But, the point i'm trying to get across, is that NO MATTER WHAT you will do, you can still achieve the same results.

For instance, for those who have trouble sponging (I.E. Me) or what not I instead visualize but I still do the same proceedure, I just move my energy in a different way. I can STILL directly simulatle my centers by using my awareness.

I personally prefer a combination of both visual and tactile systems, as it really helps.

I tend not to follow any body else's training program, if I do, I tend to tweak it a little to my taste.

I find the NEW system to be very thorough, but not fool proof, as it does present slight problems as well. For instance, Robert developed NEW for the sole purpose of helping the Blind with their energy practices, right? Using their ENCHANCED sense of touch to manipulate their energy - for the people with normal senses, (some this may not apply to) they still may require a BIT visual aid to help them, as their sense of touch isn't as strong as a blind persons.

But , don't give me wrong, if you can use NEW without any visual aid, more power to you. You certainally got me beat.

So, ending my post, just do what is best for YOU. The level of effectiveness of anything , depends on the person, not the system.

Okay. I'm going to go play Kingdom Hearts 2 now. Ciao :lol: :D

[Matthew]

For instance, for those who have trouble sponging (I.E. Me) or what not I instead visualize but I still do the same proceedure, I just move my energy in a different way. I can STILL directly simulatle my centers by using my awareness.

DarkCloud,
Ahhh... I see your point. I stand corrected. When I said visualization, I was talking about pathworking ie. the visualization of complex scenarios where symbols are evoked and then you allow your imagination to fill in the scene and provide information.... I haven't had the success at stimulating the chakras with pathworking that I have had with NEW and chi kung.

Your point about visualizing the energy moving to a location instead of sponging sounds very valid. I will experiment with it soon.

-Matthew

As an artist and hypnotherapist, I have been using visualization (imagination kind) for a long time. I'm a Master/Teacher Reiki practitioner, and was able to feel small amounts of energy during sessions. Learning NEW increased my ENJOYMENT of doing healing work, but I don't think it particularly increased healing abilities. When I became a Quantum Touch practitioner, where visualization AND feeling energy move is taught, I found that using NEW increased the amount of energy a lot, when used in conjunction with visualization. I can't say whether using NEW or just my own personal spiritual development was the reason for the increase in energy, though.

I can definitely say that learning and using NEW has made me more aware of the joy in life. The energy just feels so friggin' GOOD! It's especially exciting when it just "turns on" when I'm not even thinking about it. Psychic powers have definitely improved as I've become more adept at moving energy with tactile abilities.

For me, using NEW has increased all abilities. Or, maybe it's just my ability to feel the increase. Either way, it's been great for me. As everyone is different, using just visualization is perfectly fine. I really don't believe one is better than the other. I also do not believe using NEW is a crutch. If anything, for me, it is another step on my path of evolvement.

I really feel that I should add that a blanket statement about anything is not very helpful. For example, I personally would not say "NEW is the only thing that really works", or "Visualization is the "best" way to go". Everyone experiences things differently, and one experience is not better than another. They are just different.

[DarkCloud]

I agree.

I definitely like NEW, as well as the benefits and stories I always read about.

My thing is, on moving energy, I prefer my own method (visualization/imagining). But other than that I follow the proceedures of NEW step by step.

Usually, for me now, I've gained the ability to feel my chi moving pretty strongly through my body, just by visualization. So for me, visualization and imagination are triggers for me to FEEL energy.

Tai Chi/ Qi Gong / Chi Kung are ALL helpful to energy work, as they make your energy more powerful. The more powerful your energy, the more easy it is to feel.

Jing (a kind of extremely powerful, developed energy) is also very easy to feel as it produces some strong sensations. Strong electric like tingling and shocks twisting and circulating inside your body. It's awesome.

No matter what system you use, it will never hurt to get into Tai Chi/Chi Kung / Qi Gong. It will really help your practice.

[Matthew]

For me, using NEW has increased all abilities. Or, maybe it's just my ability to feel the increase.

Yes, this was what I was trying to get at in my message. I don't know whether other techniques I tried actually had the intended effects or not... they may have been "adjusting" my chakras very effectively. However, I believe that NEW and chi kung give an increased ability to feel the changes going on in the energy body.... they're very validating systems.

This was my point... apologize for the confusion,

Matthew

[oath]

The will is energy, the will is love.

Love is life, perhaps the highest form I know of.

The key is feeling

[stargazer]

I like NEW as it's the first system I've worked with that has given me such quick results to grow on, and encourage me to stick with it, but it does present its challenges...

For one thing I struggle with the awareness hands. Which hand to use, and the brainpower devoted to imagining it springing out of my shoulders, as well as the motion and the feeling. For instance if I'm brushing the soles of my feet, I find that my brainpower is split like this...

a) Imagining awareness hands reaching out from shoulders down through to feet
b) Imagine awareness hands holding paintbrush (where did the paintbrush come from? How big is it? How are my hands oriented relative to my soles? Are they magically bending around to brush my soles the way my hands physically would, or are they reaching invisible through my feet top-down to brush the soles?)
c) Imagining moving paintbrush
d) Imagining feeling of paintbrush moving through energy body
e) Awareness of areas that paintbrush is moving through

For me, a-c has become expendable and d + e are where I'm getting the most results, but it's a lot of wasted focus for me as a beginner. I end up worrying more about how the etheric bandaging is springing from which hand, which direction they're going in if they're both working, etc., and such non-essential "physically bound" matters rather than that the energy is moving. I guess I have an easier time with just imagining energy moving, but there's probably less of a feeling of self-propelled manipulation that way.

I also struggle a bit with the sponging technique, as it's just not "grabby" enough for me... if it's said that your leg is supposed to be imagined as hollow, I find my sponge either going up the sides of my leg, or if going in the 'middle' the idea of the water being just too thin to really "grab" into and my hand is moving too fast. Let's say you had a pipe or canal with the top open, with water flowing through it... if you stuck a hand with a sponge in the pipe and ran the sponge along the "meat" of the pipe, it just doesn't feel like it would effect the current in a very "Grabby" way... ONLY if the current was shallow and you were pushing and scraping it along, as if there were sand on the bottom. So I struggle a bit with the visuals.

I'm hoping that with RB's new books that some of the subtle points will be expanded upon.

[RobBobMarley]

From what i have felt, read, and else; NEW seems to have the benefit of accuracy compared to visialization, the tactile simulation corresponds to the correct locations of the energy body, and is very good at stimulating those hard to hit areas. For begginers it's great, some more expirienced people might find visualization better i guess.

Wow! Stargazer, are you overthinking it! Hehehe! Relax, it doesn't have to be perfect. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING that has to do with psychic abilities (including visualization and feeling energy) work a lot better when you are relaxed. Reading your post made me all tense and anxious. I'm going to have to go meditate and calm down now. :lol:

[stargazer]

Sorry! Happy meditatin' PHG.

[DarkCloud]

From what i have felt, read, and else; NEW seems to have the benefit of accuracy compared to visialization, the tactile simulation corresponds to the correct locations of the energy body, and is very good at stimulating those hard to hit areas. For begginers it's great, some more expirienced people might find visualization better i guess.

What I'm trying to tell you people is, whether you use tactile systems or visualization systems, you can still follow the same proceedures and get the very same results, as they are not different in the least.

One is not more effective or better than the other.

[question]

hahahahahahah. good thread.

yeah i don't think there's ever "one" way to do things. in my .0000000(keep repeating then put a 1 way way way down, like right before you reach never (lol))% experience of everything.

anyways. in a year or so i hope to be supersaiyan. my power level is at like 1000. :( gotta start somewhere though.

[DarkCloud]

Darkcloud your point follows on to another: Why simply stick to one method or another? Babies learn to walk by experimenting with their bodies and physical environment, so what are we spiritual journeypeople if not infants discovering for the first time our connection to the universal energy flow. Play with it, learn, expand, enjoy :).

[std disclaimer]My current belief (although subject to possible change if I am somehow convinced otherwise, although I'm always right so thats not gonna happen so there[/std disclaimer] is that imagination is the real key to good energy work - visualisation and tactile imaging share one important connection and that is the use of imagination to stimulate energy movement. With visualisation you imagine water washing away impurities or silver fire blazing up your energy pathways,or whatever the situation requires. With tactile images you imagine the energy feeling you would get if you sponged or brushed or wrapped an area, using memories of these feelings on your physical body and transposing those feelings, using imagination, onto the energy body. I've been reprimanded in the past for being too general so, being as specific as possible, the reason both methods are just as good as each other is because they are both driven by thought energy, which is shaped by imagination. Learning techniques by rote was how I got started with energy manipulation, I recall now how difficult I used to find it just to raise a simple shield, (following the instructions word for word) let alone percieve vast networks of energy exchange accross the universe. The best piece of advice I have ever read was written by Robert Bruce some years ago, although I have no source so I must paraphrase, he said that visualisation is simply imagination, substitute the word imagine for the word visualise, and things become much easier.

Experiment: Stop trying to visualise stuff, just imagine it. Imagine how it would feel to have energy circling in your left foot. Imagine different colors and substances, like liquid or fire or sand circulating up and down your body. Don't worry about actually seeing it happen, just imagine that it IS happening.

PS: Dont worry too much about mistakes, might set you back in the short term but gives you more resilliance in the long term.

PPS: Don't listen to an addle-brained nit-wit like me, what would I know about whats right or wrong, and besides my social skills are appaling.

PPPS: That last sentence was written by my split personality who hacked into my brain, please help.

PPPPS: Time for bed :( Brain = slowing dowwnnnnnn.


I never said that I only stick to visualization. I specifically said in an earlier am actually doing a combination of both.

Its like the martial arts. A true master learns anything he can, from anyone he can, and then later adapts/tweaks them to his own liking.

"Sponging" and all is hard for me, as it is for alot of people, so I just MOVE it using visualization (imagination or will0. I did not say that NEW is not helpful at all.
I know this too well, being a martial artist. You misread somewhere.

question,
I still think you have the funniest signature, and possibly most profound one around!!!
"Peanut butter is the seat of consciousness"
Now, why couldn't I have thought of that?
Hahahahhaha! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If you ever leave the forum, please pm me so I can steal it.

[DarkCloud]

You know, after re-reading and comtemplating all of your post, I find that I agree with most of you as well.

Going back to my original statement, a true spiritual worker/energy artist won't discrimate against different methods, just so long as they get the desired end or goal.

Call me traditional, but I just didn't agree with the statement Robert used in his book that NEW is much more effective than visualization, hence my point.

HOWEVER

I think - no, I know all of you are on to something. I still don't think NEW is the veeery best energy method under the sun (and what should it matter anyway?) but I can d..n sure say its a powerful system never the less.

Just plain visualizing make work for some people, while others need a more tactile method.

NEW, according to all of you, seems to help you get in better touch with your energy body, which in the future may even help you manipulate energy by just willing it or visualizing it.

The whole thing I'm trying to shoot at is an alternate method for moving my energy directly, I fully believe this is possible to do, although some may disagree. But if energy is inside you at all times, directing it mentally (this time, I mean not by visualizing but feeling) should be no problem right?

I was planning on using NEW regardless, until I can get a really good feel of my energy. For all of you, how long did it take you for the energy sensations to get stronger after you started using NEW?

[DarkCloud]

As an artist and hypnotherapist, I have been using visualization (imagination kind) for a long time. I'm a Master/Teacher Reiki practitioner, and was able to feel small amounts of energy during sessions. Learning NEW increased my ENJOYMENT of doing healing work, but I don't think it particularly increased healing abilities. When I became a Quantum Touch practitioner, where visualization AND feeling energy move is taught, I found that using NEW increased the amount of energy a lot, when used in conjunction with visualization. I can't say whether using NEW or just my own personal spiritual development was the reason for the increase in energy, though.

I can definitely say that learning and using NEW has made me more aware of the joy in life. The energy just feels so friggin' GOOD! It's especially exciting when it just "turns on" when I'm not even thinking about it. Psychic powers have definitely improved as I've become more adept at moving energy with tactile abilities.

For me, using NEW has increased all abilities. Or, maybe it's just my ability to feel the increase. Either way, it's been great for me. As everyone is different, using just visualization is perfectly fine. I really don't believe one is better than the other. I also do not believe using NEW is a crutch. If anything, for me, it is another step on my path of evolvement.

I really feel that I should add that a blanket statement about anything is not very helpful. For example, I personally would not say "NEW is the only thing that really works", or "Visualization is the "best" way to go". Everyone experiences things differently, and one experience is not better than another. They are just different.

Interesting. PHG, where does one go to find out more on Quantum Touch Healing? And is it the same as Reiki?

Question for everyone --
Since starting NEW, how much can you feel your energy moving inside of you (all around your body?)

Quantum Touch (http://www.quantumtouch.com). It's very different from Reiki, but uses the same universal life force. Reiki is passive and QT is proactive. It's similar to RB's technique for healing, although not exactly the same. http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=8

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking when you ask how much can you feel the energy moving. I'll just give you a brief description of what it feels like for me. Actually, come to think of it, RB describes it probably a lot better than I can. I did his tutorial on NEW, and was able to feel everything he described. http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=18

There is something called a SUDS scale used in medicine. They use it in emergency rooms and with regular hospitalized patients to assess patient's pain. It's very simple. On a scale of 1 to 10, with ten being the worst, and one being the least, what number is your pain? So, using the SUDS scale a little differently, with 10 being the greatest amount of "feeling" and 1 being the least...I would have to say that I feel the energy at a 10. Meaning that I feel the moving energy I am controlling just as strongly inside my body as I feel external tactile sensations. I have nerve damage in my feet, so when I first started doing NEW, the pain I was feeling "inside" my feet was just as strong as if someone was jabbing needles in my feet. This was due to energy blockages. The pain lessened, and finally went away as I developed the energy body, using NEW. Hope this helps!

Edit - I wanted to add something. Have you ever heard of a psi ball? You can put your hands out, palms facing each other, about 12 inches apart. Bring your hands slowly together until you feel a resistance. This is energy. Then, you can slowly pull your hands outward, increasing the energy, seeing how far out you can "feel" it. I was able to make much larger psi balls after doing NEW. I also became much more aware of energy around me.

[wstein]

Beware of anyone (any being) who claims to have THE anything. This includes guides, angels, humans, spirits, Astral wildlife, books, religions. Your journey is YOUR journey. Some outside aid might be of help to you, some might not. It up to you to determine that. I say do what works for you.

[DarkCloud]

PHG, Thanks alot. That did help a bunch. what a generally meant was has NEW increased the feel of energy FLOWING internally in your body. Have you ever totally relaxed, and thought of nothing? Just sat there , not moving at all, not having your mucsles tense and not really focusing on anything, then you slowly feel energy buidling up inside of you?

Thats the feeling of moving energy I believe. Since you've started NEW, has this feeling surfaced more often? Even without you relaxing?

Hehe! The short answer is yes!

[DarkCloud]

Beware of anyone (any being) who claims to have THE anything. This includes guides, angels, humans, spirits, Astral wildlife, books, religions. Your journey is YOUR journey. Some outside aid might be of help to you, some might not. It up to you to determine that. I say do what works for you.

You can't even trust yourself half the time. So what do you do in that instance? Well, you may choose to still seek guidance from others, rely soley on instinct, and or not trust anyone or anything...

Never of the options above are a way to live....Too much of either could let to unhappiness.

PHG
I see...AWESOME! That's exactly what I needed to hear! (It was short and simple too, I like that^^)

I read over the WHOLE tutorial for NEW...It seems to be very good for Chakra simulation, to say the least. And increasing sensitivity to energy , which is also good^_^