Energy/Subtle bodies and the Soul.

[DarkCloud]

How exactly is our energy bodies connected to our spiritual bodies/soul?

For instantance, i've wondered why some people refer to energy work as "spiritual development". Are we training our spirits?

And where does "natural" ability come from? What I mean is, how can some people have naturally strong chakras than others? Does it have to do with the incarnating spirit, or just the energy body or our the two connected? I.E to have a body, one must have a strong energy body, to have a strong energy body, one must have a strong spirit.

Please note that I am only using the term "strong" lightly. I don't mean like how much power a spirit has, rather its age, attributes, development, etc.

[Freawaru]

In the yoga lore you get several subtle bodies: ether, astral, mental and energetical (also called spiritual). Of these only the spiritual is transferred from incarnation to incarnation, the others dissipate. When you become enlightened the spiritual/energetical body is supposed to undergo a transformation that will keep it lasting.

I can't say if is is true, just give on what I read.

How exactly is our energy bodies connected to our spiritual bodies/soul?

For instantance, i've wondered why some people refer to energy work as "spiritual development". Are we training our spirits?

And where does "natural" ability come from? What I mean is, how can some people have naturally strong chakras than others? Does it have to do with the incarnating spirit, or just the energy body or our the two connected? I.E to have a body, one must have a strong energy body, to have a strong energy body, one must have a strong spirit.

Please note that I am only using the term "strong" lightly. I don't mean like how much power a spirit has, rather its age, attributes, development, etc.


You don't have to be spiritual, religious, or even believe in a God to develop your energy body. For most people, as they start developing, there comes a time when they realize that there is more "out there" than just our physical reality, which leads them to some kind of belief in a greater power, such as God, or an infinite Creator. Others, develop to a high degree, but still never believe in a God. It's a personal choice or belief. Some people come to energy work after they've already been a believer in God, but had never even heard of energy work.

I think that some are born with stronger innate abilities for energy work, but with practice, you can pass even the strongest natural born energy workers. (That is, of course, unless they continue developing with practice). Anyone can gain energetic and psychic powers through practice.

[DarkCloud]

Thank you for the reply, but that doesn't really answer my question.

What I really wanted to was the connection between the energy body and the spirit if there is one.

I'm sure most of you of heard of people who call themselves "Otherkin" or whatnot. That their souls/spirits were not human, instead they were angels, vamps, werewolves, etc. I know it sounds ridiculus, but because of this, this "otherkin" have specific characteristics in their energy body than normal people.

Example: Psi-vampires, do to their weakness of their own energy body, need to feed off the energy of others to replinish their own. They claim to have either a disconnected energy center within themselves (not inactive, but weak enough for it to seem non-existant).

What causes the changes/differences in each of our energy bodies? Why is each person different from the other and what determines this?

Although I am indeed religious and a strong believe in spiritualism, I really wasn't ask whether or not you need to believe in God to have a strong energy body. My apologies if that's the way it sounded.

Thanks

[CFTraveler]

Dark Cloud wrote:

How exactly is our energy bodies connected to our spiritual bodies/soul? Some people consider the attachment point to be the chakras. In my opinion, I don't see why there have to be connection 'points', if we're partly nonphysical then the term 'connection' seems to be moot. I am connected to my thoughts, but it doesn't have to be physical (like the balloon pointing at my head in comic strips) yet I know they are part of me. (Or at least I think so!)


For instantance, i've wondered why some people refer to energy work as "spiritual development". Are we training our spirits?
Frankly (my opinion again) I think what we are training is our ability to manipulate the energy that is already there. We are not training our spirit, we are training the temporal part of our consciousness to recognize our connection to the nontemporal part of our consciousness.


And where does "natural" ability come from? What I mean is, how can some people have naturally strong chakras than others? Does it have to do with the incarnating spirit, or just the energy body or our the two connected?
I think people inherit physical attributes that enable them to make those connections- like having a brain that goes easily into trance, or very good hearing, which helps when listening to astral noises. However,

I.E to have a body, one must have a strong energy body, to have a strong energy body, one must have a strong spirit.
If your spirit chose your body vehicle, it was for a reason. (!?) So whatever abilities you have are in the spirits of others also, but your particular spirit chose your body with its potential abilities for whatever reason.

Please note that I am only using the term "strong" lightly. I don't mean like how much power a spirit has, rather its age, attributes, development, etc. And also please note that I'm answering with my opinion, since all this is to me speculation. :wink:

[Freawaru]

What I really wanted to was the connection between the energy body and the spirit if there is one.

As I am still not sure what exactly the spirit is I cannot answer. Biblically you get the two terms "breath of live" aka soul, sometimes translated as spirit, and "wind from God" aka Holy Spirit. I do not know how spirit and soul differ in your terminology.

In Christian mysticsm (and the Bible) you find the term "poor in spirit". Meister Eckhart for example writes about the "soul" being poor. Only a soul that is poor in spirit is able to unify with God: Unio mystica. Personally I interprete this that you have to detach from even the energetical body to merge with the divine body of God/Krishna/whatever you call it. In Hinduism and Buddhism you find the concept of soul, knower and atman. The "soul" is what inhabitates the bodies, it is not eternal. The knower is an aspect of atman (the Self) and as such eternal and divine.

Some - but not all - traditions of yoga place importance on develloping the energetical body. Personally I think that the energetical body is just another "cloth" of atman, it can be shed and changed. The energetically "pure" bodies of the saints are supposed to be lasting - but I have had some taste of sainthood and I do not want this any more. I am rather fond of my personality, impure as it is. Even the energetical pure bodies of the saints are inside the "Matrix", I do not see much gain in this path. But to each their own.



I'm sure most of you of heard of people who call themselves "Otherkin" or whatnot. That their souls/spirits were not human, instead they were angels, vamps, werewolves, etc. I know it sounds ridiculus, but because of this, this "otherkin" have specific characteristics in their energy body than normal people.


I read in the "Tibetan Book of the Dead" than one can get the wrong turn inside the "bardo of seeking rebirth" and end up in an incarnation that does not agree with the personal karma. Usually the karma determines what incarnation you get, but there are some "holes" in the system and you can bypass the karma intentionally or by accident and reincarnate either in a "better" or "worse" situation that you should. But once reborn your karma catches up with you. Maybe those "otherkin" are in a wrong incarnation or something like that ???



What causes the changes/differences in each of our energy bodies? Why is each person different from the other and what determines this?


According to the Bhagavad Gita the "Superself" (Paraatman) of the avatar
separates itself into a multitude of individual souls with individual karma. Karma and individual experience determines what and who you are (except for those "holes" in the bardo I suppose ;-) ).

In my own experience karma is an illusion. A very subtle illusion - but there you go. The Impersonal Witness (vipassana state) detaches you from your individual and karmic personality and I even met people who experienced switching from one karmic personality to another and back (and remember it!). Think of it as switching perspective between characters in a book. You are not your karmic personality but the personality is there and you identify with it to experience that life. So your energy body is not *your* energy body at all. It is just a manifestation of an image of the avatar inside the Self. By identification you made it "yours" but you can always decide to leave it again.

[Aunt Clair]

What I really wanted to was the connection between the energy body and the spirit if there is one.

There is indeed a connection between the energy body and the spirit . Body, Mind , Soul and Spirit are all connected and this connection has been studied esoterically since the dawn of history . Ancient Egyptians wrote about the various parts , their names and their roles .
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/religion/ ... d_soul.htm (http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/religion/body_and_soul.htm)

In Ecclesiastes of the Bible , the Golden Bowl , the Silver Cord and the tri-fold flame are discussed . The tri fold flame are the primary flames of the kundalini . The Golden Bowl shatters at death and the cord is severed releasing the spirit from the physical body .

Bardon taught in IIH, that Body , Mind , Soul and Spirit must be in developed in balance to become a magician .

There are diverse and sundry opinions about their relationship to each other . I have been taught and accept that the body which is physical has one life and multiple layers of subtle energy bodies that continue to develop even after the physical body death . These include ; Physical body
Etheric body
Emotional body
Mental body
Astral body
Etheric template
Celestial body
Ketheric template
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtle_body
There are of course many variations on the naming . But basically we light up or imbibe with light each subsequent subtle body layer as we develop . We fill into it and anchor it with our consciousness .

The body is corruptible and dies releasing the connection with mind ,soul ,and spirit . The mind or consciousness exists within the soul and within the spirit . As a spirit it remains in the heavenly plane always accessible as that personality or entity and eternally reunited with God . It has only one life . It may rest when it is not engaged, interacted with or concerned anymore . The soul retains a portion of this consciousness also to retain lessons learned when it reincarnates .

The energy body is many living light subtle body layers that surround the physical body and internal alchemical structures within the physical body too . When we project consciousness a mental body can be seen projecting from the physical body as a miniature from the crown . When we project a physical double as a vibing out OBE we take the light layers only . There are predictable clairvoyantly visible colours on these projections leaving me to more questions instead of answers, lol .

The spirit is connected to the body by the silver cord and golden bowl .
The spirit is connected to the subtle bodies by will and the magician can lift multiple layers of these subtle bodies imbibing them with elemental qualities to attain a realm . We can learn to descend or to ascend to become more visible or less visible . For example to descend below the realm of hell we need to become heavier and fill our energy body with the water element . To ascend above Kether , we project consciousness and only the smallest amount of energy body filled with air . The mind is linked through multilocation of consciousness so that the energy body can see , hear , move and recall .

The spirit splits . This complicates the explanation even more . The spirit continues to split as we develop . Each split apart will have its own energy body . Is it identical ? Hard to say , but I think so . I feel it is our mirror except that it has no physical body . We have only one of those and only one soul per body at a time .

But the soul splits too.Each soul is thought by some to belong to a group soul of 12 each has a monad wtih 12 splits . We are thus fragmented and can exist in 12 bodies each with one soul but all connected to the group soul .

But I feel the spirit is the sentient life force within the energy field called the human energy body . Yours is an excellent question which I feel is very hard to completely and confidently answer . I would like to hear what others says on this especially what Robert Bruce might add to our understanding .

Here's a link that also begins to explain the differences as I have attempted to do without complete success , lol . I wish I could offer you a more adequate answer but this is the best I can do at this time .

But then how do energy and spirit relate? Are they the same? Here were some possible views of how they could be related;
http://www.wakundama.com/Dilemma.gif
http://www.wakundama.com/spirit.html


What causes the changes/differences in each of our energy bodies? Why is each person different from the other and what determines this?
We all look amazingly similar beneath the skin .We are neither male nor female , neither young nor old .We have no racial energy signatures either . The human energy body does however look different than alien sentient being bodies . Very rarely I have witnessed doubled chakras and insect 'kundalini' instead of snake kundalini . These individuals have brought some of their past life energy body from another planet within them . They look the same externally , being born to earth parents , but the energy body holds the collective consciousness too just as the soul does so we reincarnate with it .

Angel , demon and dragon energy body components are part of the normal human continuum . We can choose to develop the Dark Tree of Death and will develop a dark dragon into a demonic within us . We can choose to develop the Light Tree of Life and develop a light dragon or angel within us . That is not to say we are the angel but we share characteristics which can be viewed clairvoyantly ie wings . So I feel our choices and where we have lived before determine these energy body differences .

[DarkCloud]

Thank you for your very informative post Aunt Clair.


I agree, this seems to be a very hard question to answer accurately, but well worth trying to find out.

I too, hope Robert plus alot others who are knowledgable in this subject add their two cents. It would certainally help me out.

This is a question that has been boggling my mind since i've started energy work 4 years ago.

Thank you everyone for your time

[Aunt Clair]

I found a bit more of an answer to your query DarkCloud in this jewel called the Magus of Strovolos.


..Daskolos replied, that every human has three bodies , not only one ,as people commonly assume. We have , he said , in addition to our 'gross material body' , a 'psychic body' the body of sentiments, and a 'noetic body', the body which expresses our mental state. Each of these three bodies lives within a different dimension of existence , the gross material dimension , the psychic dimension and the noetic dimension.The three bodies express our 'present personality'which is a manifestation of our inner self , the 'permanent personality.' When our gross material body dies we continue to live witihin the psychic worlds with our 'psychonoetic body.'An experienced mystic , according to him , can leave his material body at will, travel with his psychnoetic body as complete self-conciousness and then return to his material body fully conscious of the experiences he had while in exomatosis.

Each of the three bodies ,Daskolos went on , has its corresponding 'etheric-double', the energy field that keeps the three bodies alive and linked to one another , Etheric vitality, which makes healing possible , is the cosmic energy which scientists have yet to discover. This energy is absorbed by our bodies through certain pyschnoetic centers , the 'chakras' or 'sacred discs.'-p 9 Magus of Strovolos by Kryiacos C.Markides

[DarkCloud]

And where did you find this information?

Could you give me a link? I'd appriciate it.

This seems to be very interesting to say this least, Thanks!

[Aunt Clair]

Dark Cloud , Here you go !
Links to sample or purchase this book ;
http://researchers-of-truth.org/Markides2.htm
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/014019 ... e&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0140190341/104-1180550-1091950?v=glance&n=283155)

Review - The most impactful book I've read recently, is "The Magus of Strovolos", which is about a Greek Cypriot healer who was known as, "Daskalos." Daskalos did a lot of out of body travel in his work as an "invisible helper", as he called it. And he taught students for many years before his death in the mid- 1990's

Other Books by the Author
http://www.ume.maine.edu/SOC/markides.html
The Magus of Strovolos: The Extraordinary World of a Spiritual Healer
Homage to the Sun: The Wisdom of the Magus of Strovolos
Fire in the Heart: Healers, Sages, and Mystics
Riding with the Lion: In Search of Mystical Christianity