All we see & seem is but a dream within a dream

[ButterflyWoman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7p5xHD0Bhk

"The illusory nature of physical reality, creative consciousness & the universal mind."

[Red Arrow]

Love it!

[Tutor]

over the top :wink:

[Sinera]

I love the "Dark Star" movie. 8)

[natalie-1984]

So, they are saying that if we are not looking at something it gets wavy and acts like waves, and then when we turn our attention to it it acts like particles and becomes solid? What about video cameras recording objects then? Does this theory count if we are observing the object through a video camera?

[ButterflyWoman]

So, they are saying that if we are not looking at something it gets wavy and acts like waves, and then when we turn our attention to it it acts like particles and becomes solid?
Sort of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment


What about video cameras recording objects then?
The "observer" can be some sort of recording instrument, yes, but it only applies to things on the quantum level.

I'm not quantum physicist, so I tend to view these things from a metaphysical point of view. My interpretation as to why it only works on the quantum level is because once something is manifest, it's much, much harder to alter it. It's like it's been "cast". It's only prior to that "casting" that thought/consciousness can have an effect on the base matter of whatever it is that the universe is made of (recent theories hold that the universe is constructed of information, actually, which I find interesting).

[CFTraveler]

There is also Bohmian mechanics, that proposes something different. Just being difficult. :)

[ButterflyWoman]

Actually, just tonight the subject of ... oh, what was it? My husband was talking about how atoms and even sub-atomic particles can be dissolved into a kind of protomatter (my word, not his; I was just trying to get the concept and he said that was close enough). Can't remember what he called it now... hang on, neurons firing....

Subatomic glue. That was it.

http://discovermagazine.com/2000/jul/featgluons

Pretty sure that's only tangentally related to quantum, however. (As I've noted, I'm not a physicist, so please nobody roast me if I've got things a little confused there.)

[CFTraveler]

Awesome.

[Tutor]

I'm not quantum physicist, so I tend to view these things from a metaphysical point of view. My interpretation as to why it only works on the quantum level is because once something is manifest, it's much, much harder to alter it. It's like it's been "cast". It's only prior to that "casting" that thought/consciousness can have an effect on the base matter of whatever it is that the universe is made of (recent theories hold that the universe is constructed of information, actually, which I find interesting).

recent theories are returning to ancient gnosis that 'all' emerges within 'the word', the symbolic letter, as in hebrew aleph-tau. for that matter, there is no 'alphabet' that has not emerged from symbolic reference. important to realize the pictorials like kanji are statements engatherance of ideas named, to name is give a word to.

one thinking would assume that nature unnamed was first, that man arrived, slowly developed linguistically and began to name. perhaps this in a sense true from the outlook of human progression.

however, in the same sense that a simple scripture would state, "I knew you before you were"; is the same sense that points to the fact, that an idea/pictorial/symbol/name/word precedes a thing or group of things which are through manifest nature to be named in the finish, the completion; that finish being the act of name given to the nature, even as nature arose from the name.

for us, humanly, this would seem to apply to 'thought' giving way to invention. yet, we invent from a nature that precedes our arrival, a nature from which we take from to form our own invention. so, we have to take it further, call it forethought, call it urge, call it yearning, call it necessity is the mother of invention.

and then there is the understanding, not known in surity, but understood variable, that a man on one side of the primitive earth invents from necessity a product that is cause to a leap forward, an advancement in survival/instinct or in spiritual/intuition; and suddenly this advancement emerges throughout what is mankind upon a primitive much separated earth.

this same collective consciousness may be seen in the animal and plant kingdoms, down to the tiniest microbial existance. externally noticed as such, mankind soon realizes that it is within something way bigger than itself, thusly appropriating it to gods or a god, forces or a force outside of man's controls.

although it is just a movie, i rather like Merlin's final summation in Excalibur, him saying how the old world of nature gods is ending, that this is the time of men and one god, that need for such as he has come to a halt...etc.

looking deeper in, we can find that in druidism is the prophesy of this coming, of even christ; as well this can be found in most religions. as in the story, emissarys following the stars, or star, predicting the event, visiting the very emergence...etc.

our western science is that which was slowly loosed from the grips of the early church, or vatican; and because it was slow to release, this caused quick leaps of assumption, perhaps into an insanity of leaped progression, to quick to check itself, to immediate to found itself on any more than theories.

however, this is not true for existant science outside of the western world of influence. hebrew, arabic, asian works pre-esist our leap of folly. for example, in china was discovered a medicinal journal dating back to as far as ten thousands years, in it the cure for smallpox, as well as most all human disease which arises out of human waste and lack of hygienic understanding.

understanding einstein's work, is to see that his work was sitting there in deep contemplation with merely a pencil and paper, no laboratory, nothing beyond his own mind touching infinite information.

david bohm's work, the same, he content that as a scientist had touched very god, for to conceive of that which being pre-conceived might be written down toward deeper understanding.

there are works out there that arent scriptural works, they are scientific application that far precedes the western leap of science. take math as example, it is the arabic mathematicians who give to our western thought algebra and calculus...etc. india had long ago came up with 'zero' in the simplest invention of a crescent shaped universal clock, still there, and thus far is the most exact time piece known to mankind.

with the advent of eyes in the sky, more and more land features are revealing lost civilization, peaking up to eyes more sensitive than is man's human eye. science is running about the globe, digging up proofs that place our prior thinking of man's advancements farther and farther back through time.

the days of pointing at primates a our lineage link are over, as we find immeasurable mankind having long been right here on earth, risen and fallen innumerable times.

to simply look at america's leap alone, a mere handful of centuries, erected on the finest democratic thinking, yet in this short span, the people have lost to forgetfullness this fruited thinking that arose from a world dispossessed of freedoms. it has shortly become but a few papers giving us the right to slander oneanother in a freedom of speech whirling around personal individuated opinion pointedly tearing each other down, to the point of loss to 'we the people'.

can modern day science fix this. is there a magic pill, a quantum formula depicitng the universiality of man, a new age religion...etc?

everything human is a science, be it philosphy, religion, math, music, language, politics, economics, agriculture, animal husbandry, etc. all sciences expressed of mankind's reasoning capabilities.

yet, regardless of what we've manifested, we cannot but return to egypt, visit the great pyramid of giza, and ponder the infinite mysterys of it's construction, it's purpose, it's meaning, all of which is well beyond our ability to fathom, us a modern man.

a constructed effigy to our human folly, a tethered mankind running to the end of a long chain, just to be caught in forgetfulness of it, and halted in a flying leap backwards.

how deep we are, yet how we invest it all at the utmost shallowness of everything beyond this depth, external or our true selves indwelling. just as the coroner hands the family their loved one's personal effects, are we whom generational consume passing on our personal effects. these effects having been sifted and resifted...ad infinitum, through forgetful ages upon ages upon ages.

the obit reads, so and so named, lived mth/day/year - mth/day/year, and the dash forgotten, and all the old b/w and sepia 'antique' photos without names hungrily sold at the yard sale or at the flea market for pennys.

we live as if we've leaped into a fire, and the race is to consume life faster than the fire can consume us. spirituality has become a gatherance of disconnections of thought, though what is gathered is connective collectivity. personal individuated resonance is now the self-guide, as if shopping for spiritual life at McWalmart. everything leads to amazon dot com.

the internet is the new paradigm, so feared for its loss, it only having been for a few decades; that invention of a lord of the rings scenario must be mediated to its public of a seven keyed salvation, five of which will globally reboot the new paradigm if it is perhaps lost in a global cataclism. what will we not believe in this grand leap of folly?

the most primitive of children presently walking this planet have got more sense than the modern adult. they at least know how to walk out into nature and find etibles and clean water. yet, we as moderns would impress upon them the importance of our unproven beliefs, our theorys on modern living, our folly being better for them than their simple age old proven methodology.

history reveals that those notes and letters of the lewis and clark expedition were destroyed in the dim light of folly's reasoning. it is like a marriage, what starts it also ends it. betrayal begets betrayal, folly begets folly...etc. a lie cannot be but a lie, it may change disguise, but it cannot be but what the seed dictates. truth, however, is unchanging, this unchanging no greater than "a lie cannot be but a lie", regardless of what progressive modern mask it dwells behind.

on that, is enough of this passionate speculatory rant.

tim

[natalie-1984]

caterpillarwoman,

You are so lucky that you have a husband that you can talk to about this kind of stuff! I could to a point, until it got spiritual then I was looney. I would love to have that kind of deep intellectual conversation with someone. Not saying I don't with you guys, but I mean in person.

So, everything is really just blinking and waving superfast. When I was younger I could look at the ground and it would look wavy like water. Could this be related? Or maybe an overactive imagination.

[natalie-1984]

"the most primitive of children presently walking this planet have got more sense than the modern adult. they at least know how to walk out into nature and find etibles and clean water. yet, we as moderns would impress upon them the importance of our unproven beliefs, our theorys on modern living, our folly being better for them than their simple age old proven methodology."

very well said!

Children are pure and spiritual beings...until we push our beliefs and modern ways upon them. I love this quote "A mother would do anything for her child, except let her be herself". So I have to catch myself every so ofter pushing my upbringing on them. I love how simple my 2 year old is, she points out things to me that I completely overlook. I try to overcomplicate things because that's the way I was taught. I learn a lot from my children.

[Tutor]

"the most primitive of children presently walking this planet have got more sense than the modern adult. they at least know how to walk out into nature and find etibles and clean water. yet, we as moderns would impress upon them the importance of our unproven beliefs, our theorys on modern living, our folly being better for them than their simple age old proven methodology."

very well said!

Children are pure and spiritual beings...until we push our beliefs and modern ways upon them. I love this quote "A mother would do anything for her child, except let her be herself". So I have to catch myself every so ofter pushing my upbringing on them. I love how simple my 2 year old is, she points out things to me that I completely overlook. I try to overcomplicate things because that's the way I was taught. I learn a lot from my children.

Thank You natalie.

well, i am afraid i made a mess out of fathering my son while i had him under my parental watch. it seems unavoidable that to some degree our pasts and thinking have a negative affect on our children. my tool box was mighty short on skills sets. i was trying to fix it all with a hammer and sawsall. it is about overthinking to the point of complications so complex that there aint no way in hell but to go through your own self made hell. lol, my sister would agree with your quote. my wife's mother is quite different though, open and honest, encouraging and supportive, questions her own sense of beliefs about things, humble but no push over though, and she is 83 and has an incredible weakness for icecream, lol. i keep her supplied. :wink:

[natalie-1984]

Tutor,

It's never too late to change things for the better. And your mother in law sounds like a pretty cool chick! I like when people are openminded enough to question their own beliefs it really makes for comfortable and interesting conversation.

I am worried about my daughters being with their dad at his house. He has joint custody so he gets visitation and has them 3 days a week. He has a temper problem which is why I left him...he treated me like cr@p and would call me names and scream at me infront of the girls. I am worried that he is doing that with them. My intuition is telling me that this isn't right. But without proof I can't do anything about it. And even if I had proof of his verbal abuse towards them I doubt the courts could do anything about it.
Sorry, I know that's off topic a bit. But I feel the need to vent. :cry:

[GRANT]

I believe the thought comes first and the first thought came from GOD. Now there are thoughts emenating from every creature and perhaps, in a sense, from matter. The thought almost always precipatates the material. The is no city, until the thought came first. You have no garden, until the thought came first, you do not sin, until the thought comes first; etc.

Our chakra system, with its "ganglia" goes outwards and picks up on thought energy and somehow we think the thought is ours; when in fact, it could be from anywhere; then it becomes action of some sort if we "dwell" on the thought.

Even Steven Hawkings had problems with information being destroyed when going through a black hole; until he revised his thoughts and realized information is not lost, but transformed into another form of energy. I believe that when matter falls into a black hole and its information is changed into another form and our chakra's ganglia picks up on the energy and transforms it into a form that we pick up as a thought and then eventually a material form or another thought.

Grant