energy, prana, chi, vital energy

[workinprogress]

I have a few questions about energy and energy accumulation. I thought I would post here and see what others say before jumping right to RB. The following has been my understanding of the various methods of energy development:

In yoga you feel prana and can increase prana through pranayama (breathing exercises) as well as the asanas. But to my knowledge, there isn't a conscientous thought/will to store energy within the body. You can observe/feel energy flow and sometimes direct it, but I don't know of any emphasis on willfully accumulating it.

In Tai Chi and QiGong the movements and breathing also increase your chi, but again, to my knowledge, the process is naturally occuring. I have yet to be told to image or will chi to the dan tien (or tan tien as it is also spelled). Instead the sheer practice is supposed to do this naturally. Although in advanced practices you do work with moving energy, but I haven't read about focusing on storing it anywhere.

In hermetics, you learn pore breathing and how to accumulate vital energy. While you can store this vital energy for specific purposes, it must be expelled fairly soon. The premise is that accumulating vital energy strains the energy body and is like pumping a bike tire beyond the recommend pressure. Sooner or later it is bound to explode. So you practice accumulating and holding the vital energy to increase the ability of your energy body to hold more energy for longer periods. But again, it is specifically stated not to store it.

Then there is NEW in which using tactile and some visualization you accumulate energy and store it in the sub-navel area. With enough practice, this too becomes natural and the body will automatically begin accumulating energy with little thought/effort on your part.

First question:
Are each of these energy names the same energy (Chi, Prana, Energy, Vital Energy) or are each a different type of energy?

Second:
If they are the same type of energy, why does one specify its dangerous to store it, others say not to force it but grow it naturally and a fourth advocates consciously storing it? To me these sound like conflicting practices/procedures. But if the energies are all diffferent, then that would go part way to explaining the differing thoughts on energy raising/development.

Third:
While Tai Chi/QiGong, Yoga and NEW can be seen as somewhat consistent - they all teach raising and storing energy, just in different ways. Has anyone tried combining QiGong standing meditation with NEW energy raising? I haven't done so yet, but it would seem possible that doing so may result in larger than normal energy sensations (willing more than the usual amount of energy to rise while performing an action already known to raise energy). So that would be my one note of caution while I try using the two together this weekend. If anyone else has already tried this, I would greatly appreciate hearing their experience(s)

Fourth:
Why is there such a drastic difference in the practice of hermetics with vital energy (ie: never store it). Also, I find pore breathing very easy and enjoyable to do. I was wondering if anyone has tried combining pore breathing to store energy in the sub-navel area? I'm a bit hesitant with trying this myself, because I can feel the vital energy when I pore breathe. I do feel the pressure as it enters my body and I can feel the increased internal pressure from it as I accumulate. For this reason, I can understand the need for releasing the vital energy once a practice session is complete.

But interestingly enough, I never feel this internal or external pressure when I practice NEW, QiGong or yoga. I feel energy rising and circulating, but its a very different feeling from the vital energy. So I'm thinking that maybe Chi, Prana and Energy are the same thing, but that vital energy is something different. And I would love to try to incorporate pore breathing, but would need to build up more of a comfort level with my ability to identify and select energies. I wouldn't want to begin pore breathing and raise/pull vital energy instead of 'regular' energy or Chi. Has anyone else experienced the difference between energy as used in NEW and vital energy as practiced in hermetics? If not, has anyone else noticed they can raise/pull energy from their whole bodies and not just feet and hands? If so, have you 'played' with this at all?

Sorry for the lengthy post!

[EOL007]

Great post,

Keep with it!

Stephen

[Hegemony]

I think these are *excellent* questions and statements, and there should be no hesitation on your part to go ask RB, since his NEW system seems to be a result of his study and work with all of the preceding practices you mentioned. I too have experimented with pore breathing, and found that if I don't willingly store energy, regardless of how I accumulate it, it automatically finds its way back out into its origins.

I find that a handful of Franz Bardon's precautions regarding certain things seem a little extreme.

[Jaco]

I was practicing hatha yoga for some time in my past, and sometimes I was raising energy using NEW techniques while being in asana. Hmm, I haven't felt any conflict or interference, it was the same type of energy to me, only when in asana energy flow seemed more natural, and while doing NEW is was a forced flow :? But I was doing it rather rarely, so... I can't be sure of anything :lol:
So, there was my two cents :wink:

I've always been taught that Chi, Ki, and Prana are all the same thing. In Reiki, it's called Universal Life Force. I think that storing energy isn't going to hurt you. Using New is really great. From my experience with it, as you continue raising and storing energy, your physical body adapts and can work with more and more energy.

With Quantum Touch healing, you are taught to raise the energy and then let it flow out your hands for healing. It's continual, so there's no need to store. I've never felt energy depleted after doing many QT sessions. In fact, last weekend, I was in a workshop where we were raising the energy almost all day for two days in a row. By Sunday night, I was feeling better than I had felt in a long time.

Isn't energy (Life Force) just energy? Just because different modalities give it a different name doesn't necessarily mean it is different. IMO it's like God. Just because God has a zillion different names from a zillion different religions and belief systems, isn't It still the same Creator?

Maybe I'm wrong...I'm not experienced in some of the modalities you mentioned, but my intuition tells me it's all the same.

[workinprogress]

Isn't energy (Life Force) just energy? Just because different modalities give it a different name doesn't necessarily mean it is different.

I couldn't agree more. The possibility of them being different is simply that, a possibility. And I have this weird thing I do in which I try and post all of the possibilities I've thought/discovered and present them as options I've considered as well as what my thoughts on each are. And I do think those three energies are the same thing -- at least I experience them as being very similar to the point where I can't differentiate one from the other. However, I do feel a distinct difference with vital energy. And that's the one that I think may somehow be different, just not sure how.



I find that a handful of Franz Bardon's precautions regarding certain things seem a little extreme.

I agree as well with this statement. But I'm also no where near completing IIH, so I'm not positive. I remain cautious and yet optimistic. I will keep warnings in mind and watch for signs, but I still want to try things out for myself.


if I don't willingly store energy, regardless of how I accumulate it, it automatically finds its way back out into its origins.

Really? That's interesting. I haven't tried to hold the energy beyond practice sessions, but whether I store it in the whole body or body parts, I can distinctly feel the pressure internally of wherever I'm storing it. Even after I've stopped accumulating it. I find I do need to release it to get my body "back to normal" though. Maybe this is just something with me personally.

But I think it would be really interesting to try and combine pore breathing with NEW such that you pull energy from all of your skin and accumulate it in the sub-navel area. Right now I'm at the point where even as I write or read about raising energy (not doing it just writing/reading about it) the energy automatically starts to flow up. Its weird, its like the faintest hint of a thought in my mind triggers energy to rise. But this can be distinctly felt only in the lower half (I typically work on bringing just up the legs in the sub-navel area). I will sometimes work with the hands and the full-body circuit, but I find the full-body circuit requires more mental effort and doesn't 'start' on its own like the legs do.

But pore breathing tends to happen in a similar fashion for me. If I even think vaguely about it, I can feel vital energy flow in, but it also flows out on the exhale. When it occurs in this way, the energy doesn't remain. But my whole body feels "exercised" if you will. Which is why I'm thinking I may try this and NEW bundled in the near future and see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[Celeborn]

In response to the philosophies of taichi/chigung I recommend you looking up a technique called the heavenly orbit (also translated as the microcosmic orbit). Traditionally it is only taught to advanced students of taichi/chigung but it is one of the first things taught to Taoist mediators.

This technique is almost identical in every way to Robert Bruce's full circuit, except that it normally starts and ends at the substorage energy center (lower tandien), rather than the feet. Though their are earth energy styles that start with the feet.

This technique is designed to STORE energy, so that the student's total chi will become greater and greater, eventually leading to a conversion of chi into shen (or spirit, a far more refined type of energy).

This is usually done by cleaning the meridians with chi through the heavenly orbit, and then, when you are ready, using Jing energy (translated as vital energy) to strengthen and empower the meridians. It is more powerful than heavenly or earthly chi, but also harder to control. It is highly recommended that you master storing normal, heavenly, and earthly chi before attempting to store jing.

I recommend picking up some books on Taoist meditation and inner-alchemy. Michael Winn or Mantac Chia are probably the most direct, but there are many other great books out there. Unfortunately, most authors done not detail specifics because of the danger involved all of these types of abilities, and they want people to find a teacher. Sadly, very few advanced teachers can be easily found in either the east or the west.

I do not know if Hermetic "vital energy" is the same as Taoist "vital energy" as I have only studied Chinese and Japanese systems (beside RB), but from what you said they sounded related.

[Aunt Clair]

In yoga you feel prana and can increase prana through pranayama (breathing exercises) as well as the asanas. But to my knowledge, there isn't a conscientous thought/will to store energy within the body. You can observe/feel energy flow and sometimes direct it, but I don't know of any emphasis on willfully accumulating it.

Other forms of Yoga are drastically different than the basic Hatha Yoga ;
I have learned Kriya Yoga from spirit teachers to store , direct and manifest energy .I also did a quick google for you using keywords yoga+storing + energy ;

Preksha Yoga For Common Ailments - Yoga and Health Hatha yoga teaches us how to utilize, store and promote free flow of life ... This may lead to loss of body's stored energy and thereafter-physical weakness. ...
http://www.indiangyan.com/books/ yogabooks/preksha_yoga/index.shtml

Sahaja Yoga in SacramentoBy this yoga, you can control the activity of the sympathetic, ie you can use more energy that is stored or else completely stop the activity of this ...
http://www.geocities.com/sacramentoyoga/page2.html

Kundalini Yoga - Fundamental ComponentsApana is the elimating energy stored in the lower chakras. ... Kundalini Yoga kriyas are centuries old. The total effect of a kriya is greater than the sum ...
http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/basic.html - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

In Tai Chi and QiGong the movements and breathing also increase your chi, but again, to my knowledge, the process is naturally occuring. I have yet to be told to image or will chi to the dan tien (or tan tien as it is also spelled).
Tan tiens are areas around the chakral column that are used to store energy . The Dan Tien is a specific Tan Tien , it is the area over the yellow solar plexus and green heart chakras . The other two tan tiens we are born with are the red male tan tien over the orange and red chakras and the blue female tan tien over the violet , indigo and blue chakras . As a Hermetic Magician I do bring energy up into the tan tiens and also down from the crowns into them for a number of practices . Here is an advanced practice ;
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers/The%20Tan%20Tien_Hara%20Line.html

Instead the sheer practice is supposed to do this naturally. Although in advanced practices you do work with moving energy, but I haven't read about focusing on storing it anywhere.The male tan tien manifests an alchemical structure called a throne from which innumerable nadis bloom .


In hermetics, you learn pore breathing and how to accumulate vital energy. While you can store this vital energy for specific purposes, it must be expelled fairly soon. The premise is that accumulating vital energy strains the energy body and is like pumping a bike tire beyond the recommend pressure. Sooner or later it is bound to explode. So you practice accumulating and holding the vital energy to increase the ability of your energy body to hold more energy for longer periods. But again, it is specifically stated not to store it.

I have completed the Ten Step Path of the Magician and I recall reading about storing up energy . I also learned from spirit teachers about energy and from Robert Bruce of course . The point here being I believe the deep cleansing , powering up , releasing and storing of energy are fundamental to Hermetic Magick . Here are a few links ;

Astral Healer :: Self-ImprovementHermetic magic has a system developed by Franz Bardon and taught in Initiation ... There are a great many ways to store energy and use energy that doesn't ...
astralhealer.com/selfimprove.php - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

FRANZ BARDON BOOKS hermetic magic initiation into hermetics ...Books by Franz Bardon, Hermetic Magic, Books by Jakob Lorber, Hermetic Science, ... The Practice of Accumulation of Vital Energy. Addendum to Step III ...www.merkurpublishing.com/franz_ bardon_hermetics_evocation_kabbalah.htm - 80k - Cached - Similar pages

Then there is NEW in which using tactile and some visualization you accumulate energy and store it in the sub-navel area. With enough practice, this too becomes natural and the body will automatically begin accumulating energy with little thought/effort on your part.
I feel that the adept will always want to work on their energy body as long as they live and perhaps beyond death . It is not enough to allow the spontaneous energy flow or to expect that it will function as autonomic reflex does . Stale prana and toxins must be deep cleansed to avoid disease and depression .The prefected energy body kept in the best condition is an asset which expands all of our clarient abilities and expands our consciousness and general well being emotionally and physically . Areas of neglect are apparent even on practiced magicians . For example in energy body readings , it is apparent that many neglect their feet and brow centre and that hands are areas of intentional focus .

First question:
Are each of these energy names the same energy (Chi, Prana, Energy, Vital Energy) or are each a different type of energy?
They are the same but prana often refers to breath energy . Chi and psi are the same . But vital energy is a loose new age term referring to the latin base vitae or life so meaning life sustaining energy sometimes and others meaning energy boosts that come from diet and exercise as this 'vitamin will increase your vital energy '.

Second:If they are the same type of energy, why does one specify its dangerous to store it, others say not to force it but grow it naturally and a fourth advocates consciously storing it? To me these sound like conflicting practices/procedures. But if the energies are all diffferent, then that would go part way to explaining the differing thoughts on energy raising/development. There are many different methods under the sun. I suggest going straight to the source and learning as a mystic and learning from Robert Bruce . He is an expert on the human energy body .


Has anyone else experienced the difference between energy as used in NEW and vital energy as practiced in hermetics? If not, has anyone else noticed they can raise/pull energy from their whole bodies and not just feet and hands? If so, have you 'played' with this at all?

Yes , the heart pumps energy .
Influent and Effluent
palms of hand
instep of feet
perineum
crown
Influent
heart
brow centre/ third eye
nose
ears
Effluent
rear of heart
rear of brow
heel of the foot purges out .
etc.
Energy can be stored by pulling it up the body through the legs
and wrapping it into a variety of methods ie sarcophagus , cobra , butterfly pranic knots and raising energy using yogic bandhas.
NEW is excellent "play" with energy and the methods aslo "work" to develop the energy body quickly . I advocate utilising a variety of methods .

[workinprogress]

Celeborn wrote:

I recommend picking up some books on Taoist meditation and inner-alchemy. Michael Winn or Mantac Chia are probably the most direct, but there are many other great books out there..... Sadly, very few advanced teachers can be easily found in either the east or the west.

I couldn't agree more about lack of qualified advanced teachers in the west. Unfortunately this isn't restricted to only Taoist meditation or QiGong. I have heard contradictory things about Mantak Chia, so I am hesitant to buy his books. I currently am reading books by BK Frantzis and Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming. Although I do remember seeing the microcosmic orbit meditation mentioned somewhere. But it didn't elaborate on details. I will research that as well, thank you for the recommendation.


Aunt Clair wrote:

Other forms of Yoga are drastically different than the basic Hatha Yoga

I completely agree. There are many forms of yoga and I had studied a few different ones.

I studied kundalini yoga for about a year. I took a few classes with several different certified teachers as well as some books on my own at home. But even when specifically asked, none of the teachers taught or new about storing prana. And most yoga instructors I have met don't really know the more esoteric aspects of the practice. I am not claiming that I do, however, I can usually tell when someone is 'dancing around' an issue or brushing it off.

I have come to be rather a snob when it comes to who and what I study. Unfortunately most western instructors teach a watered down, superficial style of yoga. This is not meant as a slight in any way towards any yoga teachers. I describe it like this because I don't think real esoteric knowledge can be dissemenated to the masses with success. And the interest in yoga has exploded over the past 10 years, such that its impossible to maintain any type of 'pure or complete' teaching. I think yoga the way it is being taught today has definate benefits and I am not knocking it at all. However, I also don't think it is being taught as deeply or wholely as it can be, if that makes sense. I think this is due to two main reasons:

1) most westerners don't understand or don't believe in the esoteric aspects of yoga or other eastern philosophies/practices; and
2) most advanced/master instructors don't readily share the knowledge

I have heard of and read about Kriya yoga. I don't like the fact that you need to sign a form of secrecy before attending a class though. That sounds a bit ...... odd to me. So I have never taken a class in it. But I understand its essentially a form of pranayama, which is also a way to build and store energy. I have also read about and practiced some Iyengar yoga, but again, it is taught that pranayama and asanas naturally build up prana and you don't need to 'do' anything additional -- ie visualization or willful thoughts.

I had also read about Sahaja yoga awhile ago. I forget the details, but I believe it is meditation and visualization based. I remember at the time not being drawn to it so I didn't pursue it.

But with the forms of yoga I have studied, pranayama is the recommended way to build energy naturally.



The Dan Tien is a specific Tan Tien , it is the area over the yellow solar plexus and green heart chakras . The other two tan tiens we are born with are the red male tan tien over the orange and red chakras and the blue female tan tien over the violet , indigo and blue chakras .

Hmm, this isn't what I have read or been taught. Although I am just learning and have only been taking classes about a month now. So I could be mistaken. But my instructor explained that the Dan Tien is about 2 inches below the navel. And from your description, it appears it is over the manipura and anahata chakras (navel and heart center). I know there are other tan tiens, but as I mentioned, I am just learning and don't know where they are yet.



They are the same but prana often refers to breath energy . Chi and psi are the same . But vital energy is a loose new age term referring to the latin base vitae or life so meaning life sustaining energy sometimes and others meaning energy boosts that come from diet and exercise

I agree that many new age groups use and abuse terms for many different things. I am referring here only to the way in which Bardon uses it. I do experience this energy as being different than Prana or Chi. Has that been your experience as well?

Thanks very much for your response to my posts. I appreciate the feedback.[/code]

[Celeborn]

I have heard contradictory things about Mantak Chia, so I am hesitant to buy his books.

...Yeah...I have read a number of his books, and while the techniques that he offers are quite good, I have found his writting style to be a little juvinile. Also he fills up his books with weak attempts to explain energy and his practices through some very bad science. So I have taken to cutting the actual practices (which are quite powerful) out of the books for convinience.

But then, this is why I have liked Robert Bruce so much. He teaches the most foundational and important Taoist practice, the microcosmic orbit, clearly, without any BS.

If you still want the meat of Mantak Chia's deeper teachings without all of his BS, some of his best students have written pretty good books. Eric Yudelove's book, Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy; Internal Alchemy and Chi Kung."
But of course, there are still other authors out their without any affiliation to MC who have very valuable information on the topic.


But my instructor explained that the Dan Tien is about 2 inches below the navel. And from your description, it appears it is over the manipura and anahata chakras (navel and heart center). I know there are other tan tiens, but as I mentioned, I am just learning and don't know where they are yet.

In the Taoist/Chinese medical tradition there are 3 Tan Tien: one between the eyes, one near the heart and one under the belly button. In this tradition though, they do not acknowledge the Indian chakras.
In Robert Bruce's system the 3 Tan Tien are called the 3 storage centers and differently but in conjuncture with the chakras.

[Aunt Clair]

My instructor explained that the Dan Tien is about 2 inches below the navel. And from your description, it appears it is over the manipura and anahata chakras (navel and heart center).

You are describing the position of the lower tan tien . This is male in nature and is clairvoyantly viewed as red . I have not heard it called the Dan Tien before . There is an image at this link lableing the locations as lower , middle and upper tan tiens ;
http://www.kheper.net/topics/Taoism/tan_tiens.jpg

Mantak Chia describes the lower tan tien as ;

the "Medicine Field" as well as "the Elixir Field", as it gathers and contains the healing power of the Original Chi or Prenatal Energy. Other names for it are the Ocean of Chi, the Sea of Energy, the cauldron and the navel center. The use of the expressions "Ocean" and "Sea" refer to the wavelike quality of Chi. The cauldron and the navel belong to the lower Tan Tien. The expression "cauldron" refers to the function of the lower Tan Tien as the chief laboratory and center of internal alchemy which transforms energy frequencies.

The Lower Tan Tien serves as the source of the life force or vital force which then as Chi becomes the source of Shen Chi or spirit power/energy.
Thus, throughout all Universal Tao practices including the highest ones, the Lower Tan Tien remains the key to opening the body and the mind for a free uninterrupted energy flow.
http://www.universal-tao.com/ book/


http://www.universal-tao.com/book/images/tan%20tien-front.jpg
http://www.universal-tao.com/article/three_minds.html
But , there is confusion over the term , you are correct . It is used to denote a specific tan tien and it is also used as a spelling variant .Upon further research I find the upper tan tien and the middle tan tien have both been called the Dan Tien and you indicate your instructor called the lower tan tien the Dan Tien also . And with a bit of googling it is apparent that instructors do call the entire set Dan Tiens as you say . No wonder students get confused , lol .

Here are some links showing the discrepancy which you have pointed out to me , thank you ;

The upper Tan Tien or Dan Tien comes ...
http://www.uechi-ryu-journal.com

The abdominale DAN TIEN.
http://www.taijiqigong.com

The Three Tan TiensThree Dan Tien Balancing. Check the upper, middle and lower tan tiens. Balance each tan tien. Use clockwise circles and pushing/pulling motions directly ...
home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/Wingmakers/ The%20Tan%20Tien_Hara%20Line.html

[Celeborn]

But , there is confusion over the term , you are correct . It is used to denote a specific tan tien and it is also used as a spelling variant .Upon further research I find the upper tan tien and the middle tan tien have both been called the Dan Tien and you indicate your instructor called the lower tan tien the Dan Tien also . And with a bit of googling it is apparent that instructors do call the entire set Dan Tiens as you say . No wonder students get confused , lol .

Here are some links showing the discrepancy which you have pointed out to me , thank you ;

The upper Tan Tien or Dan Tien comes ...
http://www.uechi-ryu-journal.com

The abdominale DAN TIEN.
http://www.taijiqigong.com

Haha, yeah. The ever confusing transliteration systems of China. Because Chinse uses ideographs rather then phonetic symbols, it is very difficult to cleanly put it into Roman leters without making it look completly different from how it sounds. There are three primary systems used today to write Chinese words: the Yale system (which isn't used too much anymore), the Wade-Guiles system (which is used in Taiwan and frequently in the U.S.), and Pin-yin (which is used in mainland China and is slowly replacing Wade-Guiles in the West).

The discrepencies in spellings that this creates can be quite confusing. For example, in Wade-Guiles, the ancient religion of China from which chigung comes is spelled Taoism. But under Pin-yin it is Daoism. Same word, same chinese character, same pronunciation, but different english spellings.

And if you look at the link http://www.taijiqigong.com, where Aunt Claire found the spelling of Dan tien, the words Taichi and Chigung are both spelled in Pinyin as well.

:D I prefer just writing in chinese characters; it removes all the confusion.

[workinprogress]

For example, in Wade-Guiles, the ancient religion of China from which chigung comes is spelled Taoism. But under Pin-yin it is Daoism.

Thanks so much for the info Celeborn! I had seen similar small yet distinct english translations in other words as well but wasn't sure what was going on. This makes a lot of sense.


I prefer just writing in chinese characters; it removes all the confusion.

Yeah -- that would be really nice to be able to do. :lol:



No wonder students get confused , lol .

I think some of these people go with the motto "all the better to confuse you with!" And it isn't only in QiGong/TaiChi that I see these differences of opinions. I find that many systems have similar variations, discrepencies, philosophies, teachings, whatever you want to term them. I've found similar instances in Yoga and hermetics as well.

My personal thoughts on this are that these variations are not necessarily a 'bad' thing to have happen. While it would be much easier if everything was straight forward, usually anything worth while is rarely every easy and straightforward.

It would also seem in these cases that the budding student must learn right from the beginning not to trust everything they see/hear/read. But rather begin utilizing their intuition to help guide their practices. I think this is a positive aspect since reading and performing rote actions of practice are purely mental/logical steps. And while these are needed to a point, they shouldn't be relied on exclusively for some of the reasons we have mentioned above.

Personally I read quite a bit and compare what I've read with other things I've read and my personal experiences. I then drop what doesn't 'feel' right to me and keep/add what does. Doing this I think helps keep the intellect sharp, but not at the expense of feeling/intuition. Its a way to work with both the feminine and masculine parts of yourself -- something that people rarely do unless out of necessity. And when focusing on any type of spiritual path/work, this certainly is an added benefit. It all goes towards balance.

Of course, that could simply be my typical way of always seeing "the glass half full!" :roll:

Thanks for the replies to everything. I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one that sometimes gets confused by all of the different terms and practices. :lol:

[Tom]

In yoga, the energy raised in pranayama is stored by the bandhas (locks). Mulabandha, the root lock, is particularly known for raising Kundalini. It is also applied by some reiki teachers such as Diane Stein in the attunement process. The risk involved in storing increasing amounts of energy is that if you are not also making changes to avoid losing energy then the energy will dissipate even faster. It is like putting water into a bucket with holes in it. The more water you put through the bucket, the more strain it puts on the areas of the bucket where the holes are.

[workinprogress]

The risk involved in storing increasing amounts of energy is that if you are not also making changes to avoid losing energy then the energy will dissipate even faster.

Actually Tom you raised another question I had forgotten to answer in all of this. How exactly does energy 'leak' out? Once you raise it and store it somewhere, like RB's sub-navel storage, do you need to 'do' anything else to keep it there? I just re-read these chapters in Astral Dynamics and I don't remember reading anything about sealing or closing or anything else related to energy leaking. I also have only read one book on QiGong in which it states that at the end of a practice, you hold your hands over your dan tien (same place as the sub-navel storage area in this book) for about 5 minutes. But my instructor and the 4 other Taichi/QiGong books I never mentioned anything about this even possibly occurring, let alone explaining how to prevent it.

Have you experienced energy 'leaking' out? If so, how can you tell? Do you feel it as it is leaking or is this something that you feel after it leaks to a certain point and you feel it in loss of energy/vitality? And how do you prevent this from happening?

[Tom]

One of the biggest ways to lose energy is through your eyes and ears. These sense organs are intended to passively receive light and sound and to then interpret the results. Instead of letting them do their job, most people tense the muscles around their eyes and ears and strain to focus on what they are looking at or listening to. This chronic tension is a terrible waste of energy.

[Matthew]

Workinprogress,
Energy dissipates from the chakras in many ways. A good example is mental chatter or "internal dialogue." Aimless thoughts not only use up energy from the third-eye chakra, they also contribute to blockages in the energy body.
Is this really leaking? Actually, mental chatter provides a useful buffer for the immature ego. Confronting reality can be a very deflating experience for the ego. Until it reaches a certain level of development, it needs some buffering. However, there comes a time when this buffer is not necessary and the individual should more directly confront reality. Then, the energy loss should be stopped through mindfullness exercises. When the time is right, a quiet mind will give your energy body a noticable boost.

I believe this goes to show that the "leakage" phenomena is a complex event depending on your level of development.

The other chakras also have compulsive actions which dissipate energy.

-Matthew

[Tom]

I'd like to disagree that uncontrolled mental chatter can be a protection. Robert Bruce wrote that disciplined mental silence is a buffer against the influence of negs, while uncontrolled chatter can easily mask the beginnings of a neg's activities. Negs aside, uncontrolled mental chatter is like being dragged around on the end of a rope.

[Matthew]

Tom,
I totally agree with you. Mental chatter provides easy access for Negs. That, however, does not change the purpose for which the unconscious is using it. An ineffective natural defense is still a defense. In this case, the unconscious is hiding from how passive it feels in the face of this whole, really tremendous universe. The ignorance foisted on us as conscious mental chatter may buffer us from one problem, but it opens us up to another.

-Matthew

[Celeborn]

It is usually recomended that you spiral the energy down and into the lower tan dien for at least nine rotations, but up to 36.

You will always get some spill over, in that every drop of energy that you try to put in one place will not stay there, but instead spread out into the surounding area and dissipate. I wouldn't worry too much about it though.

[Aunt Clair]

The risk involved in storing increasing amounts of energy is that if you are not also making changes to avoid losing energy then the energy will dissipate even faster. .

Although I agree , I feel that the magician will intuitively learn to take on greater amounts of energy to store , use and recycle it . This becomes an automatic process . Yet one does not learn to lose energy . That is it is not a naturally occurring event.


It is like putting water into a bucket with holes in it. The more water you put through the bucket, the more strain it puts on the areas of the bucket where the holes are.

Yes , but I would also add that as the magician learns to take in greater amounts of energy with proper techniques , they do not necessarily make larger 'holes'. The body will adapt to take in larger amounts of energy and yet have the same size purges . So we are like a larger bathtub with the same size drain .

There are natural purges that remain blocked and unused by the unaware human . By this I mean most humans , do not choose to purge . Their naturally occurring purges are undeveloped and this is evidence that they are not used automatically or consciously . So that I feel the unaware human only exchanges prana with their lungs and this is insufficient .

But I think Tom , that you don't mean leaking from natural purges . I infer you mean leaking of energy that the magician can become aware of and consciousnessly learn to control , reduce or eliminate . We can become aware of emotional wasteful practices and cut or clamp energy cords to those places , events and people who drain us .We can look to situations that empower us rather than drain us . We can choose to live in balance and discipline .

When the magican is lacking awareness of their energy flow , it may drain preciptiously . But as we gain in power and strength we can give more out and not become drained . So we can heal others and give energy to raise their vibrations without impacting on our own if we become as a wheel and increase the flow .

I feel even if we were a sieve , if we just allowed the universe to dump energy into us like waterfall , we would remain strong and energised . And then I think of the times that Mahatma have punctured us and opened our energy body more . Why would they do this if it was harmful ? It has not been , certainly it has helped us grow . So I feel we must learn to increase the amount of energy into us and its flow without being overly concerned about the drains .

The idea is to increase the ability for the body to retain and recirculate prana . Franz Bardon suggested to store it up and gradually increase the amount one can store up . It is only by the increase of ability to store energy that we can continue to develop the energy body . The subtle body layers are imbibed with this living light that our own energy body manifests by the energy we take in . Imbibing subsequent layers allows the body to retain a higher vibration . Thus we achieve higher planes , better communication with source or guides , greater clairient skills and
higher consciousness .

A good magician can be detected immediately in that they have energy in their aura , and hermetic colouring in their fingers and their toes .The core on their purges will be as large and as functional as their intake cores . They will be balanced in all limbs.

A good magician will have learned to control their energy flow influently and effluently. This is evident in their ability to power up and deep cleanse and is demonstrated in their aura and the colours of the energy body .

Robert Bruce is an accomplished magician . His influent energy is effectively demonstrated in his state of health which he maintains despite serious spinal injuries at 50 years of age . His effluent energy control is demonstrated in the temperature increase that occurs when he is healing , he can also make the temperature decrease significantly .

Further to this , he can flare an indeterminate distance . For example ,Robert Bruce can send his psi flare further than my eyes can see clairvoyantly . Last week , he was able to send a sheet of energy the length of his residential block that did not disipate but passed effortlessly through the fence on the border of the property before my sight could follow it .His energy flare passes like a sheet of energy from a laser , it continues to send without disintegration . Not like a torch which drops off and is finite . I plan to view him on an oval next time , lol .

Contrast this to the norm of other higher vibrational humans. I have never seen a flare exceed 2 metres in any reading I have done thus far .

I am a magician, my fingers and toes are coloured hermetically in evidence to this . But I am 50 years old and I have taken on Multiple Sclerosis in this body , before I began to practice Magick . I have kept myself from returning to a wheelchair with help from many healers including Robert Bruce . But now I seem defeated by this body afterall . His spine in contrast, is perhaps as bad as mine, and yet he continually regenerates and heals self . I am not at his level of the energy body , or I could sustain health too .

I suffered a severe respiratory flu this week . Robert suggested bouncing energy from the feet to the lungs and back out again . A brilliant idea and it works ! He also sent energy into my lungs . I projected consciousness into my lungs and saw tiny orange bursts of fire energy bubbling up around the sternum. I saw golden waves passing into the lungs and out again . I cannot heal like that , it was amazing .

Those that are higher vibrational and also conscious of their energy flow take care to open and cleanse several times daily . I have read that this also becomes innate . Robert writes that is possible to develop perpetually raising energy .

It is not what our energy body looks like but what we do with it that ultimately counts .

[workinprogress]

So If I understand Tom and Mathew correctly, controlling one's thoughts as well as controlling one's body (being aware of tension and being able to release that tension) are ways to minimize or eliminate leaking energy. But it sounds like what you both describe isn't so much "leaking" energy as "wasting" it. In other words energy isn't simply oozing out on its own. Rather the energy is being used through mental chatter or muscle tension or both. And that makes much more sense to me than the concept of 'leaking' energy. I think energy is required for daily activities and its up to the individual to identify and promote the most efficient use of energy. Doing so conserves energy as well as increases the sensitivity to the energy body in handling and manipulating energy better. At least that's my sense thus far.



It is usually recomended that you spiral the energy down and into the lower tan dien for at least nine rotations, but up to 36.

Celeborn, can you describe this spiraling? From what I understand of the full body circuit by RB, you simply pull (or brush or whatever technique you prefer) energy up the back to the top, then down the face, throat and front and into the sub-navel area. When I do this step, I simply imagine energy rushing/flowing in a fairly straight line up my back and down my front. I don't feel or imagine any swirling or spiraling. Am I missing something, or is this spiraling technique related to the microcosmic orbit meditation you mentioned earlier?

I had done a bit of research on that. Some sites reference pulling energy straight up from the legs over the top and down like RB describes. Others I've found somehow utilize constellations like the big dipper as funneling energy in through the crown. One site did reference spiraling the energy, but recommended counterclockwise spiraling down the front for women and clockwise for men. While the details seem to vary slightly, the overall process appears to be comparable to the full body circuit as described in AD. Would you agree with that? If so, then I think I'll probably stick with utilizing that process since it is easier to understand than some of these other instructions.


A good magician will have learned to control their energy flow influently and effluently. This is evident in their ability to power up and deep cleanse and is demonstrated in their aura and the colours of the energy body .

I completely agree Aunt Clair. This is my understanding thus far as well.

Thanks so much for all of the feedback everyone!

[Matthew]

Workinprogress,
In many chi kung schools, once you collect the energy in the lower tan tien after the microcosmic orbit, you spiral the energy around the tan tien. Basically, after the orbit, we would take our hands and go in circles around the navel 9, 18, or 36 times. This way you collect the energy from the surrounding area and concentrate it in the tan tien....

-Matthew

[thedevil]

I have been able to understand (mindfulness) about pranayama recently. Its like when women are giving birth and they say to do the breath exercise. Air is a type of prana just like how sunlight when you"soak" up sun is prana or the warmth from fire you have to train your mind to be more aware and receptive and that means getting rid of lies or ignorance to feel higher truth another type of Prams is physical touch when someone touches you and you feel a tingling sensation. If you go into nature and observe very closely tthen you will notice when the wind blows on you then it feels tingly like when another person (who has good energy btw) touches you. That is because the wind is the spirit of the earth moving the earth is energy just like I am energy and when energy is strong it is more aware. Its simple if you get rid of lies/ ignorance... if you believe big bang theory then you are saying the equivalent of magic and that things just pop into existence magically so you say science confirms magic but you don't want to admit that so you try to justify it as something else and call it chaos, etcc? Or you can be more logical and say that there is a higher power which I want to understand and reach. Something higher than myself which I will call truth and this truth is God and it is a spirit that is unstoppable that we try to avoid and run away from with lies but sooner rather than later it will get you and you will run out of lies and you will know the truth and it shall make you free...in a nutshell.. to sum it up.