Using the Dream State to Affect Waking Reality.

[Beekeeper]

I'm referring to two experiments carried out by Ian Wilson.

A gifted lucid dreamer, Wilson began to get a sense of when he was in a precognitive dream and experimented with seeing if he could affect waking reality from the dream state. On one occasion, he dreamt he was at work with a colleague and lucidly took the initiative to point his finger at his colleague's head and draw a triangle at distance with intention. Soon after, he found himself in a similar waking life situation so he went with the dream scenario and pointed his finger at his colleague's head and was able to form a perfect little red triangle that made another co-worker scream and his colleague run off to the bathroom to see what he had done.

On another occasion, he used his dream intention to reshape a dream cloud into a triangle, thus confirming he was dreaming. Shortly after the dream, he realised his dream was actualising as he walked home from a friend's house and was able to form the cloud as in the dream.

These are two examples. He says he had so many like this that he lost count!

[farewell2arms]

I'm referring to two experiments carried out by Ian Wilson.

A gifted lucid dreamer, Wilson began to get a sense of when he was in a precognitive dream and experimented with seeing if he could affect waking reality from the dream state. On one occasion, he dreamt he was at work with a colleague and lucidly took the initiative to point his finger at his colleague's head and draw a triangle at distance with intention. Soon after, he found himself in a similar waking life situation so he went with the dream scenario and pointed his finger at his colleague's head and was able to form a perfect little red triangle that made another co-worker scream and his colleague run off to the bathroom to see what he had done.

On another occasion, he used his dream intention to reshape a dream cloud into a triangle, thus confirming he was dreaming. Shortly after the dream, he realised his dream was actualising as he walked home from a friend's house and was able t form the cloud as in the dream.

These are two examples. He says he had so many like this that he lost count!

Quite amazing indeed if he can really to control physical reality in this way. Imagine the possibilities. It's like instant manifestation and complete manipulation of matter.

But it's only possible for him when he's in a precog dream? I suppose that does limit the possibilities a bit, or at least sets the framework.

[CFTraveler]

This seems like a wonderful opportunity to use this method to try to help remove the oil from the ocean. Imagine what a surprise it would be if the oil started just shrinking and disappearing, for no apparent reason. :wink:

[Beekeeper]

This seems like a wonderful opportunity to use this method to try to help remove the oil from the ocean. Imagine what a surprise it would be if the oil started just shrinking and disappearing, for no apparent reason.

What a totally cool idea. Now that would be dreaming for Gaia! :D

[eyeoneblack]

In my reckoning clouds don't count, so he's only given us one of so many he can't count. I'm all for it, but not on the basis of this evidence and tesitmony. :roll:

Sorry, sometimes I'm no fun. :(

[Beekeeper]

I'd count the cloud since he caused it to form with intention. No need to apologise though, the best way with these things is always to prove it for yourself. There are plenty of experiences I've had myself that I'm sure people would disbelieve outright and I dare say I've believed things that weren't at all true as well but that's okay. Such is life.

[wstein]

I tried this in the past but was totally blocked. It SHOULD work but...

[Beekeeper]

I tried this in the past but was totally blocked. It SHOULD work but...

Bummer :|

[Neil Templar]

i've done this successfully at least once in the past, using the dream state to change my own habits in waking reality. is that the same?
i didn't affect anything other than myself, but knowing that there is no separation, it's basically the same thing, right?
it was a very empowering moment in my battle against substance abuse... i'm sure i posted about it here a couple of years ago... :?

i often find myself waking from a dream, and realising i've missed another opportunity to do something similar...
imagine we could all use this potential...wisely...what kind of world we'd have... 8)

[Alienor]

i often find myself waking from a dream, and realising i've missed another opportunity to do something similar...
Next time that happens, you could just go back and relax, continuing the dream or change the dream in the way you think appropriate. That is a kind of meditation technique and often brings very good results! :D In that way you do not miss another chance, but instead take it. :wink:

[Neil Templar]

good idea. i don't know why i haven't tried that before...i find it super easy to get back into dreams upon waking...
maybe that'll help me gain more lucidity...going back in with the intention to change something... 8)

[YouAreDreaming]

I'm referring to two experiments carried out by Ian Wilson.

Hi Beekeper,

A friend of mine pointed this thread out to me; so I thought I would join the forum to discuss the processes involved. To have some reference there is a thread on another forum where I posted the photographic evidence of the triangle link (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread532149/pg1)

Just be aware the process stems from experience with precognitive dreams which evolved with my lucid dreaming to eventually give me the courage to explore this particular possibility of causality: can we affect a precognitive dream when lucid?

In my experience this has been confirmed many times and on some very large profound scale such as the cloud example. In the above thread I share the one on my hand I did as a permanent reminder to myself should in age; I ever forget or doubt that this indeed was part of the precognitive dream experience.

I have a blog where I am discussing theories stemming from experiences I have had through dreaming. http://you-are-dreaming.blogspot.com/

To be clear on the process; this is an active lucid precognitive dream (See Robert Waggoner "Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self") where a lucid dreamer actively engages the lucid dream rather then passively observing it.

The technique is simply intent driven. Using dream control to change the dream.

What determines which dreams actualize into a physical experience through the paradox of precognition is still mysteriously to me; suffice to say it is easy to change a dream. The fact it actualizes is still wrapped into the enigma of the precognitive dream phenom?

Changing the dream was easy; getting to the state where it's precognitive proved the challenge.

Hope this helps, if you have any questions I'll come back and assist with what ever experiences I have which may merit some understanding of processes and techniques so much so that you can explore this for yourself.

Cheers,

Ian Wilson

[eyeoneblack]

Thanks for that, Ian. I'll have to say your evidence is less than ravishing but I'm a believer. What interests me most, as you mentioned, is the difference between the pre-cognitive dream and the lucid/active dream. Is it a Real Time Zone and Near Earth distinction? Or a random energy fluctuation? Pre-cogs and etheric OB's aren't on my radar so I'll probably never know.

Very interesting.

Richard :)

[Beekeeper]

Thanks so much for popping in Ian and also sharing links! 8) I did go in search but obviously didn't look long enough, though I did find "Course on Consciousness" which is safely bookmarked for future reading. I shall become an avid reader of your blog and, no doubt, reference some of that here. :D


To be clear on the process; this is an active lucid precognitive dream (See Robert Waggoner "Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self") where a lucid dreamer actively engages the lucid dream rather then passively observing it.

I don't know why I haven't yet bought this book since I like Robert Waggoner's work. In any case, I'm probably more likely to dream precognitively than I am lucidly but I'm not sure I've even done the two together. (Actually, I'm probably better at being precognitive awake than I am being lucid awake, if you know what I mean. :lol: )

Do you just choose a situation in the lucid dream that might eventuate in reality or do you intend the lucid dream to reveal something precognitively?

[Korpo]

Yeah, thanks for the book link, I'm going to get that one! :)

Oliver

[YouAreDreaming]

Thanks for that, Ian. I'll have to say your evidence is less than ravishing but I'm a believer. What interests me most, as you mentioned, is the difference between the pre-cognitive dream and the lucid/active dream. Is it a Real Time Zone and Near Earth distinction? Or a random energy fluctuation? Pre-cogs and etheric OB's aren't on my radar so I'll probably never know.

Hi Richard,
It would be nice to see fireworks and not subtle simple geometry however what little evidence I have pales in what knowledge I possess in regards to the mechanical process so to speak; and I think it's that process that you are connecting with. It is far more important than the less attractive evidence.

If you lack precognitive dream experience; it might be difficult to really gauge what it's like but I can certainly describe it in some detail. The originating dream appears as any dream one might expect. In literal precognitive dreams you have the same vantage point facing the same data as you do right now in waking reality. The only difference is it's a dream. Now in that dream moment you may not realize that this has the potential to actualize. As you wake up, the memory fades and life ensues; days, weeks and months may pass until the synchronicity with the dreamed of information actualizes with the physical.

The information can be 100% identical from your same vantage point which has now produced a sort of feedback loop from the dream state to waking reality. It can leave you with a deja vu feeling and certainly make you more open to what I share in the more active elements I describe.

I don't know what qualifies one person to have precognitive dreams and another to not. The mystery is quite intriguing in of itself.


Thanks so much for popping in Ian and also sharing links! 8) I did go in search but obviously didn't look long enough, though I did find "Course on Consciousness" which is safely bookmarked for future reading. I shall become an avid reader of your blog and, no doubt, reference some of that here. :D

Yes, my old book from 1998 that I just wrote and dropped off on the internet. You'll find a stark contrast in that writing as to what I am writing now in that I've grown somewhat into more scientific models in hope to connect more dots with what I experience; and what exists in our history and current understandings of what the information represents.



I don't know why I haven't yet bought this book since I like Robert Waggoner's work. In any case, I'm probably more likely to dream precognitively than I am lucidly but I'm not sure I've even done the two together. (Actually, I'm probably better at being precognitive awake than I am being lucid awake, if you know what I mean. :lol: )

Like you, I was in a similar learning stage with the experience of both lucid dreaming and precognitive dreaming. There was my pinnacle moment when the lucid emerged with the precognitive and that certainly shifted my belief paradigm to a more idealistic view of reality. It was beyond words; the first actualized lucid precognitive dream was a real hit on the head.

Subsequent attempts to just be lucid in dreamings allowed more ambient precognitive dreams to occur which spurred my curiosity and that simply was what if I could change the precognitive dream. Not knowing what to expect; I set out to prove this to myself and the events that followed gave me for the first time real first hand experience with what I only read about and doubted: phenomenology.

It was very profound because not only did it lock in the reality that there is this suggestive relationship to what is dreamed and what is reality. It merged the two so that both reality and dreaming are interconnected and seemingly entangled with each other.

As to what scale or scope this skill can evolve? I don't know. Hopefully who ever next runs with this torch, wields it responsibly. I just hope I haven't opened up pandora's box; but it seems natural when you progress with the precognitive stages where you are in right now. It is all intent driven and requires your attention to direct the interaction with precognitive dreams and lucid awareness.



Do you just choose a situation in the lucid dream that might eventuate in reality or do you intend the lucid dream to reveal something precognitively?

It's really hit and miss for me. I simply encounter dream information when lucid and make a deliberate attempt to interact with it using dream control. If the dream actualizes or not is merely the same mechanics that affect all of our precognitive revelations. What I was doing was focusing on the feelings and frequency of precognitive dreams. My knowledge of the experience allowed me to sort of sift through and navigate a spectrum of dream layers.

The way I interpreted the data was there are many filters of other dream types that one must navigate through to get to the precognitive layer or spectrum of the dreaming experience. Once there it's simply a matter of interacting with that data and reprogramming it so to speak. Ironically; I was having these experiences just before the movie "The Matrix" came out. It certainly made me feel that I was living in a matrix after watching the movie.

Now Inception has arrived following my Robert Waggoner interview and my blog and that movie also appear to have some interesting synchronicity in that indirectly to the movie I was already blogging on similar content that the movie touched on. I just really hope this information benefits other people. It's important to share; that's why I did.

At least now you can explore this potential within your own development with lucid and precognitive dreaming knowing a little more about it through my experiences.

[defectron]

Quite amazing indeed if he can really to control physical reality in this way. Imagine the possibilities. It's like instant manifestation and complete manipulation of matter.

But it's only possible for him when he's in a precog dream? I suppose that does limit the possibilities a bit, or at least sets the framework.

I believe it is possible to affect physical reality both in and out of dreams. Two books I enjoyed talk alot about this "the holographic universe" and "the intention experiment". I have not yet had any precognitive dreams to my knowledge though so I haven't been able to try out this method mentioned in this thread though. I've read many books about people who see things like ufo's monsters and other beings. These creatures don't seem to be bound by our laws of physics. My theory is that, this is because these beings have a greater understanding of reality then we do, they understand that the physical world isn't that much different then a dream and if you know how you can change it. Some humans seem to know how to do this as well such as the shuar tribe. One of my goals is to master the ability to do this.

[Beekeeper]

Tell us about the Shuar, Defectron.

[Beekeeper]

You know, I have given it some thought and I have had lucid dreams that were, in some way, precognitive.
Here's one but there are a couple more:
At some point I'm dreaming a false awakening and I'm aware it's a false awakening but not lucid enough to do anything with the situation.

I hear a "radio", like last time, I listen carefully to ascertain whether it's real or dreamt. It appears to make sense. It's Triple J and the music is something familiar that I don't know the name of. There is, however, no radio in H's room. I fumble around trying to hit the snooze button.

L, a girl who started with me at this new job, comes into the room playing classical guitar. It doesn't sound bad. I don't question her presence. Now S, a guy who also started when we did, sits near me on the bed and I show him what I'm writing in my dream diary. It's the dream I've just finished having:

My "mother" is giving me new clothes. They're tops of different designs and I really love them.Some are long-sleeved and some short-sleeved. They're in patterns and plains and in a range of colours. I'm amazed that all this is for me and the other "children" are similarly endowed. "Mother" is a large, brown-skinned woman. "Father's" name is "Gustav". I explain to S that this is a pun for "Good stuff." I ask father where we got the money for all the new clothes and he says it's because we traded away the old stuff.

Now I'm writing "Gustav" on my husband's neck or head (he shaves his head)- I think this is because I saw him write a reminder on his hand earlier in the day. It's now that I attain lucidity.

The dream scene disappears and I'm in blackness. I don't want to waste the opportunity like I did last time. I lie still within myself but I feel urgency to act so I will myself out of body and begin to float upwards. There's something wrong with my attitude, though. It's not fear but lack of confidence in my ability to succeed. Sure enough, I slam back.


Two things happened shortly after this. My father mixed up my birthday and sent me a present (a top) a month early at the same time Hurricane Gustav happened overseas.

[defectron]

Tell us about the Shuar, Defectron.

The Shuar is a tribe that John Perkins visited in South America, according to John they can do things like shapeshift, heal and other interesting things. He writes about them in his book in the below link.

http://www.amazon.com/Shapeshifting-Tec ... 335&sr=8-5 (http://www.amazon.com/Shapeshifting-Techniques-Global-Personal-Transformation/dp/0892816635/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1289940335&sr=8-5)

His website is here

http://www.dreamchange.org/

[Beekeeper]

Thank you. :D