Palehorse's Kundalini Experiences and Musings

[Palehorse Redivivus]

In the dream I had a terrarium with a small cobra who was waking up out of some sort of hibernation. (These dreams aren't getting obvious or anything. :P ) I gave it a fish to eat which flopped around a bit, and the snake actually said to me something like "I'd prefer you kill it so I don't have to chase it around the tank" (implied: "c'mon, I just woke up, gimme a break" lol) I did that, and there was one of those dream segues where things change without notice, and there were two snakes. The second one said it would rather have some exercise and eat the fish live, so I gave it a live one.

Not positive on the symbolism yet (or if this is just more generic "snakey waking up and getting acclimated in general") but it does reflect the sort of dynamic I've been shooting for, and have had good results with to a large extent with mine. Namely, let's get rid of all the religious baggage and work with each other as I have with other parts of my anatomy so this process is a positive one for both of us which isn't anymore disruptive than it needs to be by definition. One of the most important impressions I've gotten from this is that the entrenched religious stuff has made kundalini in general take a rather grandiose view of itself, which can make it more volatile, unpredictable and uncooperative than it actually needs to be. Mine actually seemed to be relieved to have all that cleared away and to be able to cultivate a common understanding of this process as it goes on for both our sake. W00teth.

[CFTraveler]

That's what I thought- Snakes=Kundalini, , fish=traditional or evangelical christianity; (I'd say with the first one is the 'dead' (meaningless to you) religious baggage and now the second snake wants a live one- meaning you're possibly going to give up another part of your religious makeup that you still value (the second one). The image is obvious, the second one only you know about. May be even a little traumatic for you...

[Palehorse Redivivus]

That sounds pretty right on. Its almost become a game of sorts to process stuff at least somewhat consciously before it gets thrown up and I get broadsided by it. At this point though, stuff is coming through from such a deep place and often sideways from other incarnations which seem to be going through a synthesizing process, that I don't know if it's gonna be possible to catch it all for long; there's really no telling what parts of me still care about or have an interest in that me-here isn't aware of, lol.

The dead one / live one thing does pretty much sum up the way the process is shaping up, tho now that it seems to be a bit more stabilized. We seem to have reached that sort of compromise and a degree of trust to where I can ease up more and she can do her explodey thing sometimes without taking me out of commission entirely. At least if I know a "live one" is on the way I'm at a point where I can go into objective mode and brace for it without necessarily having to try and dig to intercept it beforehand.

[Korpo]

The snakes themselves also seem to represent the active and passive principle.

I also thought of this:


The Ida and Pingala nadis are often seen as referring to the two hemispheres of the brain. Pingala is the extroverted, solar nadi, and corresponds to the left hand side of the brain. Ida is the introverted, lunar nadi, and refers to the right hand side of the brain.(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_%28yoga%29)


In the East, the symbol of the two serpents twisting on the rod corresponds to the two currents Pingala and Ida which coil around the Merudanda(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadi_%28yoga%29)

Cheers,
Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

Not to say the fish don't have a Christian association, only to add that the symbol predates Christianity by a couple of thousand years. It is found in the Chaldee/Babyonian tradition (Dagon the Fish God - half man, half fish) as well as the Brahman tradition. I've taken this excerpt from Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled:

"In the Hari-purana, in the Bagaved-gitta, as well as in several other books, the god Vishnu is shown as having assumed the form of a fish with a human head, in order to reclaim the Vedas lost during the deluge. [Yes the same Flood] Having enabled Visvamitra to escape with all his tribe in the ark, Vishnu, pitying weak and ignorant humanity, remained with them for some time. It was this god who taught them to build houses, cultivate the land, and to thank the unknown Deity whom he represented, by building temples and instituting a regular worship; and, as he remained half-fish, half-man, all the time, at every sunset he used to return to the ocean, wherein he passed the night.
"It is he," says the sacred book, "who taught men, after the diluvium, all that was necessary for the their happiness.
"One day he plunged into the water and returned no more, for the earth had covered itself again with vegetation, fruit, and cattle.
"But he had taught the Brahams the secret of all things" (Hari-Purana).

So far, we see in this narrative the double of the story given by the Babylonian Berosus about Oannes, the fish-man, who is no other than Vishnu - unless, indeed, we have to believe that it was Chaldea which civilized India!"

From this perspective, Palehorse, we see better the connection to Kundalini I think. Oannes/Vishnu returns to the sea to become Leviathan the serpent, forever seeking and being denied entrance into Heaven. Your cobra consuming the fish is a good analogy I think.

Just some fodder for thought...

Oh, I wish your cobra had been a python, a non-venomous snake :lol:

Richard

[Palehorse Redivivus]

Note: now that its seeming that its not just precursors going on, that there definitely seems to be K-related stuff ongoing and I'm getting more okay talking about it, I thought I'd turn this into a running thread and move it into the kundalini forum. Some of the reasons I'm trying to take such an active hand in the process is to try and gather as much objective info as possible about what this process actually entails as it goes on, as well as to challenge assumptions about its nature and the experience of kundalini by essentially attempting to work with it, demystify much of it and make it my own as is my approach with most things. So far so good.



The snakes themselves also seem to represent the active and passive principle. (snip)


Very good syncs, thar; this definitely seems to tie into the dream and the relevant energetic anatomy. It also syncs with the Caduceus / staff of Hermes symbolism, and I'm pretty sure the winged solar disc is in there somewhere too.

I did have an experience the other day with the ramping fiery energy coming from the top down, rather than the bottom up, and there was Phoenix imagery involved. I'm still wondering about how the archetypal / mythical symbolism is supposed to fit with the anatomy, and wondering if the solar plexus is the point where the winged disc fits in, in an element air / fire sorta way. I'm further wondering if the Phoenix ties in with the Kundalini snake and gives rise to the feathered serpent that the Mayans were on about.


Not to say the fish don't have a Christian association, only to add that the symbol predates Christianity by a couple of thousand years. It is found in the Chaldee/Babyonian tradition (Dagon the Fish God - half man, half fish) as well as the Brahman tradition. I've taken this excerpt from Blavatsky's Isis Unveiled:

"In the Hari-purana, in the Bagaved-gitta, as well as in several other books, the god Vishnu is shown as having assumed the form of a fish with a human head, in order to reclaim the Vedas lost during the deluge. [Yes the same Flood] Having enabled Visvamitra to escape with all his tribe in the ark, Vishnu, pitying weak and ignorant humanity, remained with them for some time. It was this god who taught them to build houses, cultivate the land, and to thank the unknown Deity whom he represented, by building temples and instituting a regular worship; and, as he remained half-fish, half-man, all the time, at every sunset he used to return to the ocean, wherein he passed the night.
"It is he," says the sacred book, "who taught men, after the diluvium, all that was necessary for the their happiness.
"One day he plunged into the water and returned no more, for the earth had covered itself again with vegetation, fruit, and cattle.
"But he had taught the Brahams the secret of all things" (Hari-Purana).

So far, we see in this narrative the double of the story given by the Babylonian Berosus about Oannes, the fish-man, who is no other than Vishnu - unless, indeed, we have to believe that it was Chaldea which civilized India!"

From this perspective, Palehorse, we see better the connection to Kundalini I think. Oannes/Vishnu returns to the sea to become Leviathan the serpent, forever seeking and being denied entrance into Heaven. Your cobra consuming the fish is a good analogy I think.

Just some fodder for thought...


Aye aye, Eye. (Sorry. :P ) Thanks for that; I've actually been meaning to poke more in the Sumerian / Babylonian direction for potential syncs lately. Much of my history that I'm aware of has ties to Christianity, both working with it from the inside and opposing it from the outside, so there's probably still a bit of weird conflict going on there, lol. Growing up Christian though it was like I was unable to have the aversions I was supposed to, to the "villians" of the stories -- namely, Babylon and Egypt always struck a positive chord with me, though of course good info on the former isn't *quite* as easy to come by.


Oh, I wish your cobra had been a python, a non-venomous snake :lol:

I've known for a while that I've got something like a cobra-totem situation going on or that they're otherwise involved in my cosmology, and speculated that it might have something to do with K, though I didn't look into it much until now that it's become especially relevant. I further wonder if different people can have archetypal associations to different species tied into their kundalini mechanism.

In any case one very important point that it seemed like I was prodded to address was the historical assocation between snakes and untrustworthiness. I'm led to think that with kundalini there's this odd sort of dichotomy that often goes on, where one is told to "surrender" to a process which is going to manifest in a way that can't be trusted because of those associations (which I would bet have found their way into us all, even just by proxy, regardless of personal ties to Judeo-Christian tradition). So, I did some work to deliberately clear myself of that association and align my relationship with the serpent archetype as something that can be trusted, and prod it more in the direction of the Gnostic "bringer of wisdom" understanding.

Just another example of the amusing relationship I tend to develop with these things to make things easier all around... but as soon as I had done that work, I had a 3rd eye flash of my cobra shooting out in front of me as if to strike (just an "apparition," no fiery energy stuff), but latching onto my nose without teeth, and wiggling its snakey eyebrows at me before shooting back down again. The impression was "well I *am* still a cobra, but we can trust each other and things are getting a lot more okay." *just shakes head* :shock: :lol:

[CFTraveler]

Just another example of the amusing relationship I tend to develop with these things to make things easier all around... but as soon as I had done that work, I had a 3rd eye flash of my cobra shooting out in front of me as if to strike (just an "apparition," no fiery energy stuff), but latching onto my nose without teeth, and wiggling its snakey eyebrows at me before shooting back down again. The impression was "well I *am* still a cobra, but we can trust each other and things are getting a lot more okay." *just shakes head* Ha ha I've had one of those not that long ago. Really startled the heck out of me. :D

[eyeoneblack]

The was I see it is the snake doesn't have any shoulders or hips and so it can insinuate itself into any crack or crevise. It is not so much 'untrustworthy' as unpredictable. It can slither its way into even the most robust reasoning and dogma.

My daughter went through a Goth period in high school and thought it would be cool to have a ball python. I did not like that snake :evil: For one, while it was molting, you never knew if it might strike and it hurt when it did but the shock went deeper than that. Also, I hated buying it live rats for dinner.

For sure real snakes give me the heebee-jeebees :lol: but the giant python of my dream has a 'protector' feel to it 8)

[Palehorse Redivivus]

Hah, a day or two after I had that dream and had the K stuff ramped up, my girlfriend randomly brought up the idea of getting a snake. I wanted one as a kid, did all the research and then it just sort of didn't happen, lol... we're both excited about the prospect now tho. Still discussing and pondering but looking in the direction of a king snake possibly. I'm wondering about how having its energy around might contribute to this whole process.

On another note, possible intel. When all this really blew open I went from having not a lot of astral sensing, to near constant nonphysical visitations and able to have full on conversations (whether I wanted to or not usually) in the span of a few days. I was finally able to have my closer connections help me create a buffer to keep everyone else out until I could rebuild in a way that would let me connect at will but also have the luxury of ignoring everyone entirely, heh. New filters, defenses and courtesy rules established, and things are a lot more sustainable now.

Once I caught up on sleep and sanity the part of me that likes exploring the mechanics of all this started wondering about things, as I am wont to do. Namely -- are these real aspects of the people they represent, with anything objective to them that has any relevance or connection to said people in the physical? On the flip side, quite a few of these portrayed themselves as astral parts of their physical selves that they're largely cut off from, and they have their own questions and things they'd like to figure out in the opposite direction. Many of them started out as portraying themselves as a lot more in touch with the physical than it turned out they actually were, and I don't think it was down to dishonesty but rather mistaken perception.

After much Q&A in both directions, and various folks going off to do their own thing and coming back later with further input, the tentative joint conclusion is that usually with visitations like this, what I've been encountering is an astral embodiment of my personal connection with that person, rather than something as substantial as their astral body proper. In some cases I also think there were fragments of people attracted to my ability to be aware of them. Some of them were actually able to help me with some healing work though, which may indicate something more than either.

This seems to explain a lot; some of these visitors were quite substantial, insistent and demonstrated continuity from one conversation to the next; others were more ethereal and discontinuous. Whether I know the person in the physical also seemed to be a factor; some of these were people I only know *of* but apparently have history with. Some of their manifestations were substantial, but also reported difficulty in connecting with their physical selves, which I think stands to reason. My guess is that the interaction does have at least some effect on the physical self, even if subconsciously and not very perceptible, in much the same way a relationship cord exchanges energy and info.

Pending experiment; trying to get one of the "regulars" who I haven't been in contact with, to contact me in the physical, via this ongoing interaction with their nonphysical counterpart, or at least to have someone register some conscious awareness of this interaction.

[star]

You can also feed your spirituality with religion, its just finding one that works for you, or the "current" that works for you. Depends on which gods are interested in you I suppose. For me it was more cultural Japan, instead of religion but Taoism is interesting, even if I don't subscribe to it completely. Good luck and I hope that your wild ride on the serpent doesn't hurt too much.

[Palehorse Redivivus]

You can also feed your spirituality with religion, its just finding one that works for you, or the "current" that works for you. Depends on which gods are interested in you I suppose. For me it was more cultural Japan, instead of religion but Taoism is interesting, even if I don't subscribe to it completely.

I think I've kind of alchemized the entire subject of religion in that I separated myself from it almost entirely, and then started rediscovering the value in it relative to where I'm at now. I've gotten a lot of use out of the concepts of blessing, consecration and sanctification, for instance.


Good luck and I hope that your wild ride on the serpent doesn't hurt too much.

You and me both!

Anyway... night before last, had a dream where myself and a few family members were gathered around what appeared to be a mini volcano, like maybe two feet high or so. It had glowing cracks at the top and appeared to be about to blow. I felt like I had work to do with it, and told everyone to get back. They were reluctant, and then the volcano itself said to step back, so I was like "yeah, even the volcano is saying so, so I'd say you better move." At that point it turned into something like small rectangular stone structure with a cross on top. The cross kept morphing between a standard one, to something like the cross of Lorraine used in V for Vendetta, to the Orthodox cross, though I'm not positive whether those were the actual symbols or just an approximate association.

Last night more connecting and communication led me to believe this was signifigant. I called back the image of that structure, and found that it was a construct in my e-body. The info I got through about it tied into what I've written before, about how it was as if my dreamspace had been cut off from the rest of the astral, so I wasn't dreaming much, when I was it wasn't very vivid at all, and when it was vivid I was vetoed (at least once by an actual voice) from going lucid or doing anything really. I interupted the info coming through ("talking time is ovah!" --McBain), blew up the structure which vaporized with a pop like an M80 going off rather than a stone structure exploding; this seemed to be a product of my pent up frustration over this longstanding situation. Also, I'd agreed with some of the friends I'd been connecting with that they could attempt to visit in dreams. I didn't recall any from the vivid dreams, but when connecting while awake with one of them that has been around quite a lot, I had the oddest sensation of bits of dreams-behind-the-dreams surfacing where there was an actual encounter, as if we'd connected at another "layer" of consciousness underneath and concurrently with the more vivid dreams. Very weird, nifty stuff, lol.

[Korpo]

Hello, PHR.


I didn't recall any from the vivid dreams, but when connecting while awake with one of them that has been around quite a lot, I had the oddest sensation of bits of dreams-behind-the-dreams surfacing where there was an actual encounter, as if we'd connected at another "layer" of consciousness underneath and concurrently with the more vivid dreams. Very weird, nifty stuff, lol.

Hehe, I always thought of it as "above" not "below" when regarding the dream layers this connection happens on. ;)

Did you ever get information about what is cutting you off from the wider astral? This seems like a rather elaborate construct at work here, and you tie it metaphorically to a "belief system issue" (the crosses).

Did your personal relationship to Christianity ever feel like programming to you? I mean, did anyone do this at a level that can be identified as programming, or was there a person invested heavily into subjugating you into accepting a certain set of beliefs?

Cheers,
Oliver

[Palehorse Redivivus]

Korpo, I think I tried to respond to yours and lost the post, but more has filled itself in on this front since then, sooo...

I've begun to feel like life has taken on the tone of an old style mystery school initiation, and not in a good way. Near as I can figure / extrapolate / possibly remember, for one phase of it was designed to put one in isolation for several days, facing their entire shadow. In my case right now, I've got loads of aversions wanting to hit me with themselves, including stuff I already got okay with at some point, when I face them they pull away, the stuff I choose to explore voluntarily gets quickly censored, and the stuff I'm not in a good position to face right that minute tends to hit in the worst way, when I face the stuff I'm not willing to it gets worse, fought off, and then comes back in a new form later. I'm a bit cranky with this turn of events needless to say. Currently trying to send word back to various points in history: "initiations: ur doin it rong." Thinking on it I almost get the sense that the guru / adept system is in a weird degraded feedback loop and wanting to perpetuate this stuff without any resolution or sense-making, because if "regular" people began empowering themselves spiritually and our collective shadow was permitted to become productive, they'd be out of a job (or have to stop adepting and start adapting). I have specifically been getting through a lot of impressions of the abusive healer pattern which covertly creates problems in others in order to have a problem to solve later. In basic form this is just codependency but I've specifically been getting it through from the shamanistic paradigm along with the impression of wanting to keep the tribal structure static and its members from individuating. Lots of stuff like this from cultures / paradigms that were forcibly interrupted in their development, and may have been somewhat collectively transplanted to the astral to try and figure themselves out, which may well not be possible.

Kind of a half coherent stream of consciousness, but I felt like getting it out somewhere before it gets blenderized again.

As for the issue of my missing dream continuity, I now have good reasons to believe that it was taken / quarantined / realigned because there were things someone(s) were embarrassed about and didn't want coming up, as well as to censor things "for my own good" in that "save you from yourself" (unnecessarily and usually harmfully) sorta way. Not unlike the cover memories phenomenon associated with abuse and abductions, but I get the sense that this situation stems from other lives and possibly planes.

Last night I actually had the experience of trying to explain something to someone in a dream, and actually felt someone else standing off to the side pulling on my memories and scrambling my head so I couldn't explain coherently. When I woke up I had no dream recall but knew there were dreams, and as pissed off as I am with all this at this point, I did something like reaching through and grabbed the night's events and pulled them back into my head. I got enough back to write down a bunch of keywords while sensing someone objecting strongly, and then I calmed down a bit and pulled more back, and did a combination of holding it there forcibly and 3rd eye-lasering my way through the haze to gather the relevant info and flesh out the account. It was quite a long detailed account, especially for me, though I was unable to put the sequence in chronological order.

On the plus side, blowing up those constructs a while back seems to have de-quarantined my dreamspace, and the wacky nonphysical stuff I've got going on during the day is now showing up in dreams in recognizable fashion, rather than having the mundane irrelevant dream frags and weird stuff during the day. So, hopefully I'll be able to gain a better balance there.

[CFTraveler]

Just hold on, Paley. It'll pass.

[Palehorse Redivivus]

Well yeah, but it's still my style to hang on with one hand while doing some good hearty pwning with the other, and possibly sprouting a few extra to help with the multitasking. :P Seriously, the other day I was like "alright I'll even experiment again with the traditionalist 'surrender' stuff just to see what it does at this juncture." I saw a white flag go up and watched it to see what happened then -- it immediately morphed into a pirate flag. *facepalm*

So back to those "then we shall fight in the shade" moments I s'pose, lol...