Negative Thoughts (revisited)

[Neil Templar]

a while back i posted about negative thoughts that were creeping into my consciousness, since coming back to my home city.
i can't find the post, so i guess it was lost during the issues a while back the forum had.

since posting i've been observing, and dealing with the issue with no difficulties.
my observations have led me to the conclusion that i am indeed picking up on the 'stray' energies of the people/area i live in/near.

yesterday, in another thread, Dreamosis said something that caught my eye, pretty much summing up the people i am surrounded by in this part of town -

"I lean toward saying that Negs don't seem to realize that (1) they can't indefinitely sustain selfishness, especially steadily increasing magnitudes of it, without consequence; and (2) their selfishness provides benefit to others...

If we take Negs with the assumption that they're basically ignorant (they don't realize some things), then you can see that they need to be dealt with accordingly. You could say the most powerful ones are like genius children. They're very smart, able, cunning, and can manipulate with subtlety, but they lack the big-picture wisdom of an adult and ultimately depend on other kids or adults for their survival."

yes, i know the quote is concerning 'negs', but it truly does sum up the populace of the neighbourhood i have to walk thru every day, particularly one or two streets.
i only encounter these energies in this one particular area of town. it's one of the oldest 'communities' in the city, and has had a long standing identity of being a 'less desirable' neighbourhood, with plenty of drug/alcohol/violence issues throughout it's history.
it's by no means what i'd describe as a 'ghetto'. the energy is older, Edinburgh is a very old city. the very ground and buildings feels steeped in it..

i discussed this with a sensitive friend the other day. she told me she's never enjoyed being in that part of town, and couldn't handle having to live there.
it makes me wonder what would be necessary to create a different energy in such an area?
if the very buildings are holding such energy within them, as it feels, would anything short of demolishing the place and starting again have any real effect?
perhaps the ground itself holds onto such energy. i know places in the north of Scotland where fell deeds have taken place, and now, many centuries later, there is a definite palpable energy in those places.

[Korpo]

Hmmmm.

Honestly, can't say.

I have a feeling that the energy of the place attracts people who then perpetuate the energy. As they are lacking the tools of awareness (like the ones you employ) or willingness to learn and use them, what can be done?

I wonder if the energy would shift elsewhere over time if the people went elsewhere. I also wonder if the people would go elsewhere if they perceived a shift in energy.

This is a comparable to a scenario I wondered about a lot many years ago - is the moment of lucidity painful to the heavy alcoholic? The alcoholic drinks himself into oblivion. But even then he experiences from time to time lucidity, a moment of existential pain (I would think) where he realises to some degree the damage, the ruin and the ever-increasing problems he is faced with, only to drink more to quell the feeling.

Similarly, if you are used to negativity, harbor negative thoughts, perpetuate unhappy habits, feeling the light in any form might become painful. So, it might be that if you improve conditions energetically, it might be that people with problematic energies themselves might be pushed out.

I think this is possible. Am I too off-topic?

Cheers,
Oliver

[Neil Templar]

not too off topic.
it's an interesting question, that of the addict's moments of clarity.
i reckon they'd be bitter-sweet.
the actual clarity isn't wasted on the addict. they would undoubtedly enjoy it for what it is, but at the same time, it only accentuates how far they've slipped from what is essentially their true/original state.

i've observed this myself before, in friends who've embraced sobriety for a time, after having had drinking problems. the clear times are truly when they are at peace and genuinely happy. often expressing their "never again" speeches, with good intent.
and many times it only takes a tiny slip up in their resolve, to send them tumbling back down the spiral of self destructive suffering.

oh, and i should mention, this was while living in the very area i'm talking about!
it was also in this area that i had my darkest times, before i managed to get out of here...
and for some reason i feel like i have to be here just now...possibly to prove to myself that i've outgrown it and am strong enough to resist it..
something like that. :?

[Tutor]

Neil,

perhaps though Neil is the tradeoff that you are a beacon of positive energy giving to and relieving them of. empathically

one just has to be on their toes, knowing where they do begin and end when it comes to others. detachment and dispassion, even if your heart attaches compassionately with your observant witness of the world around you.

as such, i suggest the practice of taking periodic retreats, as there are such places provided all around us if we just awaken to there seemingly coincidental placement. reenergize by touching what you resonate with/to, and also meet like-spirited folks.

some of the hardest hit by negativity within are those who carry the greater burden of transmuting otherwise emerging self-destructive energy around them. we cannot predict what our soul mission is within our deep underlying being.

i rather imagine, as in the book of Job, that what is Satan doesnt need to assault those within such a minded grasp, and like poor ole Job, sifts the ones of the more positive ilk.

kinda like a mass filter of humanity, some pores get obstructed and are unable to sift, while open pores are cleared and open and thusly become inordinate conduits for the many obstructed pores.

in many spiritual writings there is given the ratios within humanity of those which unknowingly serve the greater whole in every given generation.

it is all about resonance, higher frequencys that provide upward mobility for lower disabled energys manifesting all about them.

kinda like a lightning strike to the earth's ground, requiring a positive lead to spring up or to be present, for the connectivity given in that permission.

the very same works in reverse, often lightning has been seen to emerge from the ground to strike/meet the receiving polarity offered in the sky.

in dreams, such folk often find themselves helping others, strangers who've been drawn to a more positive domain.

likewise, it is a known fact that religious chanting of all cultures have upheld this world for centuries, keeping it just short of the brink of all consuming human calamity.

but, now we see the decline and aging out of monasticism, and a huge rise in laypersons combining monastic practices with their world oriented lifestyles. not to mention increase in everyday folks who unbeknownst to themselves are becoming more and more burdened in the transmutation of negative energies.

but, we have to imagine that on the soul level, that humans incarnate to the appointed time with purpose, even if that is not a meaningful remembrance, and confuses the hell out our human existence in the pursuit of happiness.

this is our human brevity however, while it is our longevity that would underlyingly guide humanity forth toward its appointed destination of mass awakedness and self-awareness in true being.

one just keeps the faith, because it is ever faith which keeps everyone.

perhaps...

tim

[CFTraveler]

It occurs to me that if it would have to be dealt with, I would think it would have to be dealt with as a haunted house (a very large one) determine who's doing the haunting, why the attitude (being so old, it probably comes from a time where life was cheap and torture and death was common) and what can be done about it- it is my opinion that spirits at unrest are dealt differently than negative elementals- so depending on what used to be there before (burial grounds, prisons, etc) it would give you a clue as to what is influencing the area?

And yes, I think that it is probably a 'haunting' type of situation, and the 'magnet' theory applies.

[Neil Templar]

Tim, indeed, periodic retreats to recharge the positive energies have become a frequent pastime since i came back.
i spend so much time up on Arthur's Seat, or indeed out of the city. it's wonderful. i'm growing healthier on every level, and my connection with Gaia grows daily.. 8)

CF, it was originally a maritime port, and there are numerous graveyards etc... i think also there were hangings and 'witches' burned around here too. tho i'd have to look into that...hmmm.. :?

[CFTraveler]

Also see if there are large quantities of limestone or quartz underneath the city- it appears that they seem to act as a matrix to trap the 'vibration' of the place (or so some think,)

[Neil Templar]

interesting...it was an active volcano long ago, but i'll check out the geology and see what else is under there..

[Neil Templar]

hmmm...geology doesn't reveal much, sandstone and carboniferous volcanic rocks for the most part...
however, the Leith Links (the park right next to the very streets i'm talking about), was used as a mass grave for plague victims, during one of the worst outbreaks the city endured. :shock:

[Alaskans]

If you are 'arrogant' enough you can replace and alter the energy of the place yourself. It will take persistent work over maybe a few months but would benifit you by helping you develope a skill. If you percieve the energy

[CFTraveler]

hmmm...geology doesn't reveal much, sandstone and carboniferous volcanic rocks for the most part...
however, the Leith Links (the park right next to the very streets i'm talking about), was used as a mass grave for plague victims, during one of the worst outbreaks the city endured. :shock: Well, that clears something up.
That the geology doesn't reveal crystalline rock is a good thing- you're not fighting the whole matrix effect. Unless the igneous rock is crystallized. Hmm.
The plague cemetery thing is bad- you have a lot of painful death happening in the area. That points to a lot of pain and spirits and possibly elementals attracted to this. About the only defense I can think of is to focus on the beauty of the place, if you can, when you're there.

[Alienor]

I agree with CFT about the idea to treat the place like a haunted house. I also think you could actually have a huge beneficial effect on the area, even when you are just one person!

Basically every graveyard is full of spirits, that is souls, who think they are supposed to wait for the Judgment Day or something alike. With the background of that part of town, there will be most likely spirits all over the place, some of them also angry - having had a life full of violence or dying a violent death, does often result in a angry/confused spirit/soul.

If you start helping at least some of these souls to move on, that will be very beneficial for those souls and the whole place.

So you could start with the graveyards and places you know had been used as massgraves. Ask in your mind an angel/the angels to put up a light column in those places. Assuming that there are lots of souls, it would be even better to ask for a huge ship, like an ocean-liner of light.
Sometimes, when you have lots of souls going into the light like this, even the angry souls will go along, that is like a herd instinct.

Often it is just enough to have the light put there by angels as a reminder. But you can also think of sending out the informations to the souls in the area, that they do not need to wait anymore and can go into the light now. Today is the day they have been waiting for!
-----

The above is what you can do without having to spend too much of your energy and it does already help a lot. In places with lots of violence and addiction you will also find a lot of "Negs". These Negs are more like a symptom, even when they keep the situation also "stimulated". Having helped the souls, will already have a positive influence, but to clear the energies "completely", I think it would need an approach more like a social worker combined with "positive energy".
As it is, there needs to be places also for addicts and violent people to live. They are not just because of some "Negs" like that, so one would need to do a therapy-like work with them.
From my point of view it is ok to let them make their experiences - everyone has the opportunity to live a joyful life and at some point they will realize it; maybe just not quite yet in this lifetime.
-----

But as for yourself, it might help to be able to switch on a light in your heart - a light of joy and love. So when you walk in such places and the "dark mood" presses in, you can just switch on your light and emit joy, that will lift you up.
After practicing a meditation to fill yourself with joy and happiness, you can think of this joy being in your heart like a lamp or lantern, that you can switch on if need be. The light might even help some people who walk by :idea:

[Neil Templar]

The plague cemetery thing is bad- you have a lot of painful death happening in the area. That points to a lot of pain and spirits and possibly elementals attracted to this. About the only defense I can think of is to focus on the beauty of the place, if you can, when you're there.

CF Edinburgh's history is FULL of painful death and dark deeds. it's apparently one of the most haunted cities in Europe, if not the world.
however, even tho it's my home, i still find myseld overwhelmed by it's beauty, on a daily basis.
i don't even have to try. it's everywhere. :D

[ButterflyWoman]

Neil, I think you might want to consider getting an amulet of some sort. It can be something very simple, like a piece of stone (I like black tourmaline for the purposes of absorbing and neutralising negative energies, but you can also try amethyst, tiger eye, garnet, and there are a few others), or a small piece of jewellery that you've charged to be a deflector of energy, that sort of thing.

Some people like to use known symbols that have a lot of belief invested in them, such as an Eye of Horus. I have an Eye of Shiva stone set in a pendant, which is a similar concept (I don't wear it very often because I just don't need it, but it's a damned cool looking stone and I get a lot of positive comments on it, so there is that to consider).

Even a protection symbol or sigil (note that sigils are not the same thing as symbols!) written carefully on a piece of paper and appropriately charged will work. Just carry it in your wallet or pocket or similar.

One of my favourite amulets is a genuine medicine bag, created just for me by a quite talented practitioner of Native American mysticism. I carry it with my keys, so I always have it with me when I go out. The ways and means of protection amulets are extensive, to say the least.

If you want some specifics, feel free to PM me, but I don't want to derail the thread with a big discourse on the generation of protective amulets. ;)

[Neil Templar]

I agree with CFT about the idea to treat the place like a haunted house. I also think you could actually have a huge beneficial effect on the area, even when you are just one person!

Basically every graveyard is full of spirits, that is souls, who think they are supposed to wait for the Judgment Day or something alike. With the background of that part of town, there will be most likely spirits all over the place, some of them also angry - having had a life full of violence or dying a violent death, does often result in a angry/confused spirit/soul.

If you start helping at least some of these souls to move on, that will be very beneficial for those souls and the whole place.

So you could start with the graveyards and places you know had been used as massgraves. Ask in your mind an angel/the angels to put up a light column in those places. Assuming that there are lots of souls, it would be even better to ask for a huge ship, like an ocean-liner of light.
Sometimes, when you have lots of souls going into the light like this, even the angry souls will go along, that is like a herd instinct.

Often it is just enough to have the light put there by angels as a reminder. But you can also think of sending out the informations to the souls in the area, that they do not need to wait anymore and can go into the light now. Today is the day they have been waiting for!
-----

The above is what you can do without having to spend too much of your energy and it does already help a lot. In places with lots of violence and addiction you will also find a lot of "Negs". These Negs are more like a symptom, even when they keep the situation also "stimulated". Having helped the souls, will already have a positive influence, but to clear the energies "completely", I think it would need an approach more like a social worker combined with "positive energy".
As it is, there needs to be places also for addicts and violent people to live. They are not just because of some "Negs" like that, so one would need to do a therapy-like work with them.
From my point of view it is ok to let them make their experiences - everyone has the opportunity to live a joyful life and at some point they will realize it; maybe just not quite yet in this lifetime.
-----

But as for yourself, it might help to be able to switch on a light in your heart - a light of joy and love. So when you walk in such places and the "dark mood" presses in, you can just switch on your light and emit joy, that will lift you up.
After practicing a meditation to fill yourself with joy and happiness, you can think of this joy being in your heart like a lamp or lantern, that you can switch on if need be. The light might even help some people who walk by :idea:

thanks, i'll give the light ship/angels a try over in the park. i guess i won't look too out of place sitting on the grass doing some little ceremony for that. :D
i have no problem with the 'dark mood' now. i managed to kinda transmute it in my mind whenever i feel it creeping in. i turn it into a scenario of joy or healing... and the image i have is of me being a lighthouse (a term that Kryon uses to describe lightworkers).
often, when i see the worst cases, i find myself asking the Universe to help them in whatever way is appropriate for them... it's become an unconscious habit.

also, there's this large area of overgrown unused land, right in the middle of the worst street, it's a busy shopping street. it's the place where i feel this stuff the most.
anyway, this bit of land has been unused for years now, and i am thinking of contacting the council, and perhaps suggesting they allow me, and whoever i find to get involved, to create a community garden, for growing vegetables and such, to feed the homeless folks or whoever needs it.
it might give folk an interest, and develop a little pride in their neighbourhood...
the land is surrounded on three sides by the backs of tenement housing blocks. it would give those living there a much more pleasant view when they look out their windows...

[Neil Templar]

Neil, I think you might want to consider getting an amulet of some sort. It can be something very simple, like a piece of stone (I like black tourmaline for the purposes of absorbing and neutralising negative energies, but you can also try amethyst, tiger eye, garnet, and there are a few others), or a small piece of jewellery that you've charged to be a deflector of energy, that sort of thing.

Some people like to use known symbols that have a lot of belief invested in them, such as an Eye of Horus. I have an Eye of Shiva stone set in a pendant, which is a similar concept (I don't wear it very often because I just don't need it, but it's a damned cool looking stone and I get a lot of positive comments on it, so there is that to consider).

Even a protection symbol or sigil (note that sigils are not the same thing as symbols!) written carefully on a piece of paper and appropriately charged will work. Just carry it in your wallet or pocket or similar.

One of my favourite amulets is a genuine medicine bag, created just for me by a quite talented practitioner of Native American mysticism. I carry it with my keys, so I always have it with me when I go out. The ways and means of protection amulets are extensive, to say the least.

If you want some specifics, feel free to PM me, but I don't want to derail the thread with a big discourse on the generation of protective amulets. ;)

thanks CW. if i feel like this get's worse, i'll get back to you on that, but for now, i'm not concerned about myself in any way. i'm fine, and i've developed my own 'defence' if you will.
plus, i feel like i'm back here to face this head on. it's part of my past, my history. i was born not far from here, and much of my family has lived here in years gone by... i don't think it's coincidence that i ended up being offered accommodation here when i returned.
most of my personal 'demons' from my younger years are related to this area. i feel like i'm supposed to be here while i deal with that stuff...know what i mean?

[ButterflyWoman]

most of my personal 'demons' from my younger years are related to this area. i feel like i'm supposed to be here while i deal with that stuff...know what i mean?
I do, indeed.

Some years ago (more than two decades now, actually, sheesh, where did the time go?) I ended up moving back to the small town where my parents lived and where I went to high school. I didn't understand it at the time, but the close proximity to my parents and the general vibe of the town was the equivalent of putting me into a pressure cooker, of sorts, and although the overall process was painful and difficult, being in that crappy town with my dysfunctional parents so nearby was a huge part of what finally led me to the first crack in my worldview, which is the first step toward transformation.

Thank you for reminding me of that, by the way. I know you didn't do it on purpose, but thank you, anyway. :)

[CFTraveler]

ps. Ametrine is good for warding. It's a combo of amethyst and citrine, and has a good reputation.

[eyeoneblack]

I couldn't find a better place to put this :|

Yesterday morning I was waking from a not particularly interesting dream and I noticed talking that didn't have anything to do with the elements of the dream - as if someone were talking in my ear while I was doing something else.

Must have been a neg entity of some sort because whatever it was saying was you can't or don't do this or that. Interestesting, my first conscious encounter with a neg. :) I wonder how often this goes on and I don't notice? :evil:

[CFTraveler]

This happens to me ocassionally, and once even caught an entity doing this.
I find that the best thing for me is to notice it happened (to bring the info from the subconscious to the conscious awareness) and then to ignore it.

[Alaskans]

I noticed I start to go down hill quickly whenever I come back to my home town, especially the house I grew up. On carefull observation it seemed its not so much the energy (wich sucks btw). But my connection to the house, the land, and the people, that cause old thoughts and behaviors to resurface (that go ALL the way back). It's probably not that bad a place, you are just more connected to it.

When I'm wandering around traveling, it seems every time I move, I can leave myself.
When a place has bad energy I am less effected by it because I have no connection to it (unless its the close your eyes and see nightmare energy, then I hightail it outa there :) )
I think there is a reason youre there. When were challenged we grow the most. Hmm.. good point Luke.


(ps I would like to know the general (energy)structure/function of amulets CW Ive never been able to find any info)

[Tutor]

to go downhill suggests having gone uphill to have come down from.

don't know about you, but given my drathers, i'd rather be walking downhill than trudging up a steep incline.

thus, this is about 'inclinations', which i am inclined to let go of, lest i find myself once again trudging up yet another steep and slippery slope.

letting go of such as these 'inclinations' i may recognize my 'proclivitys', wherein are the causes for such unreasoned despair in my own hand as effects.

our neighbor raise roosters, lots of em. yesterday evening as we sat on the front porch we laughed as children while listening to the cacophony of overlapping rooster crows. we heard, "Happy Birth Day!" and "Let the Boy Try!" and all manner of hilarious four syllable outcrys as the moon rose to it's near fullness.

does a child need to see around the corner, or hear the familiar sound? no

the mystery is comedically felt when left to it's mystery, thus seen and heard through childlike wonder and awe.

ask any women who has been at the hands of a domineering and possessive lover, who that she was, and she will tell you that she was not...at all.

free her from this craving to know what she absolutely is, and find your child within that responsively feels to see a world renewed with every laughing breath.

we can blame the pimp, but it is ever us whom visit the harlot of our desire's proclivitous whims of fancy that steal her away from her very self as if we've known her.

poor Jill, that she walked uphill beside a possessive Jack, he destined to fall down and break his crown. a pail of water, when she in fact is the very waters of our being, unrecognized and unseen in disrespect of her mystery.

Jacob fooled got an undesired sister, but Jacob realized got his heart's desire after all. yet, he kept both in that all the children were of his making well met in that forgiveness which freed them all to go home.

there upon a journey almost ended, a brother fretfully left, and fearfully awaited as if death's shadow looming. yet, through time all which had been misunderstood was in the heart mended as understanding, and what was feared instead embraced, welcoming home that which for a time was lost to a world of running away from.

tis the story for each in every of one. you and me....we and us.

anywho, much ado about nothing...

tim

[Alaskans]

I continue more and more to doubt the validity of the 'easy', downhill path. Walk downhill all the time and any little upward slant becomes hell to overcome. Challenge yourself to climb hills and they all become easy. I think our little self imposed hardships are the only thing that makes it able to endure living (well speaking for myself). Existing is hell for anyone not wearing God's rose colored glasses. I really think I was better off swimming in the winter and all that "crazy" *#^% I did to make myself better able to endure. (sitting full lotus 1h+ )
Who says its about payment for 'sins'? Doesnt the ability to endure and perservere in the face of discomfort have a lot of merit?
When I lived in the igloo the best thing I got out of it is the ability to not care about any comfort, making me able to live anywhere, anyway, and I gained an unlimited generosity.
Payment of sins is just a bonus for the unforgiving types.

[Tutor]

payment?

well...debt forgiveness instead of debtor's prison. all this 'payment' rhetoric has been blown skyhigh through the centurys, which is what brought about the protestant movement. i guess that, unless one has really read and absorbed the original message of christianity then they've only got the skewed view.

i'd say that everything 'counts', but is that the method, that one should desire 'counting'.

it depends on the motive, or lack of i suppose. to be motiveless in one's doing is probably the definition of being ac-countable, such that what is done is not 'counted'...for or against.

this whole 'debt' and 'debtor' scheme of things is the seat of the problem, as if one themself is keeping the 'books' where credits and debits mathematically are self-determinate.

problem is, that most of what it is about...is that which in our ignorance we saw not to do, such that what we did do is but a scant fraction of forgivable indebtedness.

therein is the true method, wherein one realizing said ignorance begins to understand the 'forgiveness' without a formulaic ideology of self-grooming.

the 'point of the world is that it is a field with which what is in one comes out to it's fruition, this inclusive of bad and good, as it is, we live within a dualistic world, for every virtue a vice...etc.

as a preacher informed his congregation one sunday mornin, "if it in you to rail and curse at very God, then by all means exit the church into the parking lot and let her rip, giving all the toxicity over to God".

this is the natural order, like when we've ingested a toxin, our bodys would naturally purge the toxin, such as puking and diarrhia...ya know.

this lines up with what is said on ingestion, "it is not what goes in one, but rather what comes out of any one that determines one's defilement.

one might say, ummmm...well this one had ingested a toxin from without. but, they do not see the blessing of it, for what if they'd ingested a toxin and had no toxic response, as if it were food for positive growth, where very negative had unnaturally become their positive? this defines what is a 'beast', such as not found in nature but through mankind alone.

point is, it is totally natural to purge what is within that is defilement of one's sacred inner realm. understood correctly, this means that most of what is seen to be as 'negative' in our outlying world is indeed a positive outcoming, a purgation from within to the without.

and merely a scant fraction is unnaturally negatively oriented from mankind's beastly possibility. we may see here the 'forgivability' vs the 'debt and debtor' scheme that would take lifetimes to pay back as if very life is merely a prison for criminals.

i remember well one winter when my mother said to me, son don't get around or touch the coal burning pot belly stove. did i listen? no, it only drew me to the fate of tasting it first hand, so i got burned, and from then on I knew well to respect the 'hot' things in life. well sorta, because i did the same with a soldering iron that my dad kept hot while building his model railroad.

see the natural order of forgivables, letting such debtor mindedness go. unless you've adopted a beastly unnaturalness....just be and in being much ignorant, as we all are, realize your self through errors that provoked from within have shown themselves in the light of day where they can no longer be denied.

the secret is, is that if anyone can see outlying to point at another's 'sin', then surely that very 'sin' from within they is that which pointed out. for if i've not known a lemon I could not if asked point out a lemon, myself not knowing what the hell a lemon was, is or shall be.

this is why there is a 'lemon law' for automobiles, for we cannot in our ignorance know beforehand of the car's hidden problems. therefore, being indebted for the car's cost, we have this forgiveness in place that allows us to take the car/lemon back where we got it and get reimbursed for our trouble.

this all points to the 'perfection' of what being human truly is. if one could but release themself from the dogma and doctrine of centurys of 'usury' where mankind has been taught 'worldly indebtedness' instead of eternal forgiveness.
tim

[CFTraveler]

I continue more and more to doubt the validity of the 'easy', downhill path. Walk downhill all the time and any little upward slant becomes hell to overcome. Challenge yourself to climb hills and they all become easy. I think our little self imposed hardships are the only thing that makes it able to endure living (well speaking for myself). Existing is hell for anyone not wearing God's rose colored glasses. I really think I was better off swimming in the winter and all that "crazy" *#^% I did to make myself better able to endure. (sitting full lotus 1h+ )
Who says its about payment for 'sins'? Doesnt the ability to endure and perservere in the face of discomfort have a lot of merit?
When I lived in the igloo the best thing I got out of it is the ability to not care about any comfort, making me able to live anywhere, anyway, and I gained an unlimited generosity.
Payment of sins is just a bonus for the unforgiving types.
I agree to a point- it's a fine line to be grateful for your hardships, because if you learn from them you grow- the problem is that some people become too attached to this feeling of having 'overcome' obstacles, and find they can't live without this feeling- and they end up creating obstacles for themselves. Which doesn't lead to growth, it leads to addiction and attachment.
Which is why I always say- balance is the key.
As to sin, I won't get into that because I don't believe in sin or karma as advertised. We all make mistakes, the trick is to learn from them. If we don't learn from them, they'll bite us in the butt.

[Alaskans]

Jesus said the people in our life that wrongs us were put there so that we can forgive them, because we wronged them in the past. If we dont forgive them we can suffer hardship and be forgiven. He said it quite plainly (I'll quote if you like). Essentially, whatever you can forgive, you are immediatly forgiven of.
What we do unto others is done unto us is really perfect if you think about it, and the only way to do it. I believe in forgiving everyone, and only apply consequences for the sake of compassion, or learning for those who were forgiven. It's not my idea, just the way they all see it, or is that my immagination?

[CFTraveler]

Jesus said the people in our life that wrongs us were put there so that we can forgive them, because we wronged them in the past. If we dont forgive them we can suffer hardship and be forgiven. He said it quite plainly (I'll quote if you like). Essentially, whatever you can forgive, you are immediatly forgiven of.
What we do unto others is done unto us is really perfect if you think about it, and the only way to do it. I believe in forgiving everyone, and only apply consequences for the sake of compassion, or learning for those who were forgiven. It's not my idea, just the way they all see it, or is that my immagination? I may be wrong, but this sounds like an argument for something. Did I miss something in this conversation?

[Alaskans]

No argument.. just saying cuz I thought it was cool. Lots of affirmations and cool stuff in the new testiment that often contradict religion if you actually pay attention to what your reading. The question wasnt confrontational, it was a real question.. in reflection asking someone if your right about something feels really frivilous.. as great as it would be if someone could tell you what you believe was actually, a fact.

[Alaskans]

Phew! Speaking of negative thoughts, im sure glad im out of that hole.
It was entirely energetic, caused by my mom spewing venom all over, not my failing - except for failing to get out of there, and doing energy cleansing exercises away from said bad energy.
I was being 'told' it is time to give up my family, now I really see that.
Having so recently experienced it I feel really sorry for people like my mom. But im 2nd wave, I am to worry only about myself, then many will bennifit, as they have before-I just watched a utube about the 3 waves.. now I know why.. all that makes sense now