Energy Feeding

[CFTraveler]

Split from The Law of Altruism (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20647&p=131072#p131007) in the Healing forum


Yeah, it does depend on worldview. When I wrote that I was partly thinking about the concept of "soul loss"... If it's possible for us to lose, or become detached from, a piece of our soul, then I'd suppose it's possible for us to try to give it away too (perhaps subconsciously)...

Hmmm...I can't quite articulate what I'm thinking about here.

So, the energy that so-called psychic vampires suck out of people -- is that really healthy for them? I mean, besides from the question of whether leeching off another person is ethical or not, is the actual energy that they're sucking up work well with their energy systems? Or does it only tend to prop them up artificially? Give them a buzz, like they've eaten sugar, but not really nutrify them?

Or, in the same turn, can it be potentially harmful to give someone else your energy? Not karmically harmful, but well, think of the times you've felt "smothered" by people who are trying to help you. You know what I mean? What's happening energetically there?

I'm on a tangent... I suspect that what energy vampires lack is not energy- if they did they wouldn't make it to childhood, let alone adulthood- I think that what they lack is a certain type of affect, and that has to do with the quality of the energy. I used to know one, and at some point addressed what was going on with him. What he needed wasn't the energy itself, but how it made him feel- and like some other maladaptive habits, any affect is a good affect- and we know that misery loves company- that is, a negative event will generate more emotion than a positive one, unless you're surrounded by empaths- so they get used to creating negatively impacting situations, because violence and anger is tastier than joy.

Think of it like this- on the surface we like what tastes better- only with age and wisdom do we seek that which is healthier to eat- but even when we choose the healthier type of foods, the tastiest of the foods are always desired. And sometimes we succumb to the salty fried starchy goodness of things that are not good for us, even when we eventually go back to the tofu salads.

[dreamosis]

That's really fascinating to me -- the idea that energy-vamps are after the taste of energy rather than the energy itself. So, perhaps because they find themselves unable to be really genuinely positive, they try to steal the taste of others' positivity?

[niki123]

My second oldest daughter is an energy vampire and she is an adult now but I always tried to avoid her as much as I could.She is very angry,vindictive and now is self destructive and she is the only one who can help herself because she thinks that everyone else is wrong and she is right.Having her around would make me feel sick and when she left I felt drained,completely drained even if I took precautions as in shielding myself.

[dreamosis]

Sometimes I find the very best protection against energy vamps is not taking them personally. Almost anything anyone says or does is about them and not you. Also, protective to me is realizing that I'm in no way obligated to fix them or their problems.

On the suggestion of a good friend my stock reply to energy vamp-types has become (after silently listening with an inner acknowledgment that I'm in no way obligated to fix them), "Okay, anything else?" At that point they either keep talking or they finish. If they're finished, I politely ask myself, "Okay, what are you going to do about it?"

[Korpo]

My viewpoint on energy vampirism is influence by a model of the soul you can for example read in "Music and the Soul" about:

Energy/life force is given to us by the soul. As we progress towards what the soul wants us to do, learn and experience, more life force becomes available. If we move away from that, the opposite happens. Lack of life force leads to unhappiness, depression, illness and so forth. There are other forces at play, of course, but your basic level of life force availability derives from this.

You can observe this when engaging in an activity you love and how you could go on and on. Or how you feel sustained and uplifted by being with the right people. Compare these experiences with to going to an office for a hum-drum job where everybody competes in unfair ways. This is how we feel the life force level.

(Don't take this too literal. Just as happiness is not physical health alone, life force/energy is not this or that. It's complex, but the feeling of having enough or abundant life force is easily identified.)

So, in this model you can see why somebody had enough life force as a child and may still turn into an energy vampire. I personally doubt there's an inborn deficiency, but I think there might be the possibility of someone having problematic karma stemming from former lifetimes where person resorted to energy vampirism, increasing the likelihood to repeat the experience when push comes to shove. This is not quite the same, but would look similar.

Basically you try to replace what you lack yourself for whatever reason and sustain yourself on it. And how can one come to lack life force? By stubbornly moving in an unhelpful direction, away from actual growth, following an idea because you think it is right, for example.

You can see this kind of reasoning everywhere - "This will make me happy. I need this, I need that, and that will make me happy. I will be finally happy when I have this." When you start to enforce such an idea by sheer willpower, you can go on for a while, even in opposition to your own soul. Your willpower keeps you on going even while you have not the support of the soul. Your life force level drops, you start to feel unhappy. And in the worst case even your unhappiness acts as a reinforcement of your compulsion - only getting what you think you need will make you happy, right? So unhappiness "proves" to yourself even more how much you need this thing. You never stop and think and say "Maybe I'm heading the wrong way here." Everybody else is wrong, they don't know how it feels, the pain and misery you feel makes you lash out and so on.

Such personality patterns can lead into exhaustion, self-destruction and/or energy vampirism. You get to a point where you cannot sustain yourself anymore, but instead of giving up the destructive pattern you start to fuel it with what you get from other people - their time, attention, energy. You drain other people and sustain your own ends.

I think many other problems can compound this and reinforce this. And I don't think energy vampirism is the only possible outcome. I think energy vampirism happens when you have this specific reaction pattern in you. Until this is overcome, it will happen again and again, and possibly worsen.

Oliver

[Beekeeper]

Sometimes I find the very best protection against energy vamps is not taking them personally. Almost anything anyone says or does is about them and not you. Also, protective to me is realizing that I'm in no way obligated to fix them or their problems.

I'd like to extend the notion of energy vampire to those people who are relentlessly cheerful but still damn exhausting. The ones who seem incapable of reading social cues and who desperately want your approval so that you feel kind of awful every time they alter what they've just said because you didn't agree with it. The ones who never stop talking as if they're afraid everything would disappear if there was a moment of silence, who pretend to know what the conversation is about even though they clearly do not and who invade your personal physical space.*

It seems some vampires want attention and power, some want pity and others want approval. In all cases their need seems excessive and leaves you feeling drained and "slimed".

*Think Brendan Fraser's character in "Bedazzled".

[dreamosis]

False positivity can be as draining on me as overt negativity, true. Although, false positivity usually feels to me like it's sourced from some underlying fear, whereas overt negativity -- or attention-seeking apathy -- is more about pain.

I bring it up because I find falsely positive vamps can stop or their feeding if you boldly risk to break through the superficiality and send them the message that they're loveable. Of course, genuine compassion can be exploited to -- to some unconcious individuals it just means a meal.

Stopping the feeding of overtly negative or gravely indifferent people, though, in my experience, takes firmness.

[Beekeeper]

I bring it up because I find falsely positive vamps can stop or their feeding if you boldly risk to break through the superficiality and send them the message that they're loveable.

I'm referencing particular students I've taught over the years and one relative. My experience has been when I've affirmed them and been patient and kind to them, I have a hard time getting them away from me. :lol: I did find something that worked once. I was doing first aid at a cross country carnival and found myself surrounded by such kids with all manner of malady. I noticed that as they accumulated in numbers, they ended up quite happily chatting with one another and I had blessed relief. :roll:

[ButterflyWoman]

Fascinating discussion. A lot of things here resonate with me or make particularly good sense. This is just my random blatherings, freeform, so, eh, take it for what it's worth. ;)

My mother is an incredible energy vampire. I grew up as her primary source of "food", but I learned on some level how to turn that around and feed on her, in turn (this was wholly unconscious, on both sides). I can definitely see the "I will be happy when X happens" cycle that Oliver mentioned. There was also a pattern of deliberately pissing off the other party for the purpose of energy feeding. To "win" one of these completely pointless encounters gave a sort of "high" (and to "lose" resulted in pain and often depression). Some of this is just typical dysfunctional co-dependent interaction, of course, but I am entirely convinced that there were energetic issues going on.

In fact, they continued even up until a few years ago, despite the fact that I had stopped talking to my parents many years prior. I had to go through repeated rituals to sever the energetic/psychic bonds, and I had to set up specific shielding against my parents (my father is not so much an energy vampire as he is just pathetically persistent, and he regularly showed up in my dreams to bother me). When I first did the cutting of psychic ties, there was a tremendous psychic backlash from them, which is why I had to set up the shielding before I could continue.

Interestingly, when I really cut the ties to my mother, I had a dream about her where I understood that she was retreating into a sort of psychic basement of her own making, and when I woke, I knew for sure that she was slipping into dementia (after a lifetime of making up lies about your own reality, it's no surprise, really). It was later confirmed by a third party that my mother very clearly has dementia, and that it was getting more and more noticeable.

I think that, in my mother's case, she believed herself to be "cut off" from the infinite Source. When her dysfunctional bonds to other people (such as myself) were cut off, there was no longer any way for her to get fresh energy, because it was blocked by her own beliefs. Every time I've tried to help her, sending healing energy or whatever, she just tries to drain me again, hence the very strong shielding against her. Best I can do now is pray for her, because for my own health and sanity, I can't make any direct contact with her. It's all very sad and pitiful, but she created that reality, and she's so deep in it that she's never going to get out of it.

This is, of course, a very extreme case, and most energy vampires I've encountered were much more subtle and easier to shake off. Obviously, a parent can and generally does create very, very deep energetic bonds to a child. The simple "office downer" is much easier to block and deal with.

Like I said, stream of consciousness. Take for what it's worth. It got some value from writing it, anyway. ;)

[Tutor]

nature could not fail to nurture. when the world is strained from nature it as well constrains its products from the only source of present nuturing capacity.

the import of spiritual awakening is to return any one back to nature, their true nature 'in it', wherefrom would arrive what cannot fail to nurture.

in the statement "God Alone", and i like add "and You", this statement is essentially about a world product as mankind being re-in-formed in their own unique nature relative to the absolute unfailing nature of 'what is' that nature all around and all within us, that nurtures humanous.

what is false within anyone cannot be but darkness, as in the shadows of what obstructs nurture.

what is not real, thus being in the darkness cannot find in true nature a reflection, for a reflection is interdependent upon light. thus, without a lighted reflection (nurture) what is not real must source itself to You for the hunger/thirst to be satiated.

this in its entangled turn is that which would suck one's self-energy to depletion of the real You, illness requiring healing, healing being true nurture from nature, one's true nature in establishment of true self.

not real means that these are merely of thought constructed form bled out of the imagination and therefore leaving one bleeding off to/for them, they having taken on a not real livelyhood just as any one may take on an unreal livelyhood via our shared world constructs, a livelyhood dependent upon sucking off what folks require for a moderate living, unsharing ways that open/leave the doorways open to poverty/impoverishment of the many.

as above, so below; as below so above

as within, so without; as without, so within

etc...

[Korpo]

as above, so below; as below so above

Who said it's reversible? :)

Oliver

[Ouroboros]

as above, so below; as below so above

Who said it's reversible? :)

Oliver

Wikipedia :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_tablet

[ButterflyWoman]

Oh, well, if it's in Wikipedia it MUST be true! :P :lol: :twisted:

[Ouroboros]

Pfft...I mean, c'mon, it's edited by THE PEOPLE! If ya can't trust your neighbor with deep spiritual truths, who can ya trust?

:P :lol:

[dreamosis]

You can see this kind of reasoning everywhere - "This will make me happy. I need this, I need that, and that will make me happy. I will be finally happy when I have this." When you start to enforce such an idea by sheer willpower, you can go on for a while, even in opposition to your own soul. Your willpower keeps you on going even while you have not the support of the soul. Your life force level drops, you start to feel unhappy. And in the worst case even your unhappiness acts as a reinforcement of your compulsion - only getting what you think you need will make you happy, right?

I think this is really insightful, by the way. If a person is largely focused on getting satisfaction through having, rather than through the feelings that arise spontaneously out of living a principled life full of love, I can see how they would fall into vampiric patterns.

[Korpo]

Hello, dreamosis.

It's an exploitation pattern. The whole exploitation principle behind our economic dealings - we take whatever we can wherever we can without a thought beyond short-term gain - I'd say that's the same. It's "satisfaction through having" as you would put it. We as a society never stop and think, we perpetuate the pattern. Can't exactly say we're a happy society, either.

Be well,
Oliver

[Tutor]

the statement "as above so below" is "part" of a long string of polarized reversibles. i cannot remember the entirety. this orginates with Thoth/egyptian or what is called "ATU".

i have have seen it written reversed in quotes of Hindu origin.

"what you bind on earth is also bound in heaven" = "as below so above"

if then, earth is below? where is this hell of lowest import?

if it is you whom ascends, then it is you which had descended.

"the depth of sorrow is the height of joy"

"it is only when one knows they are lost that they are on the verge of being found".

beginning and end are the same point in a circle - Ourosboros

"the way one begins their day is the way their day shall end". or the day ended just as it had begun.

Word says that it is so, from all corners of the global culture.

but the whole of the statement starts like this:

as above so below, as below so above; as within so without, as without so within; (and i cannot remember the rest of it)

these sorts of quotes have to do with the 'shift' where polarities shift, as up becoming fown, left become right, in become out...etc, wherein such statements both sides of it are stated.

this because, in the many pov's, folks are not all in, or down, or left..., some are out, up, and right.

so, if you are up on everything that is lit we might together be down with that which when being all in nothing is left out...right?

such are words, that say so. hermetics is akin to transcendance of religion/philosophy, transcended would be all of what is scribed as scripture rendered as sameness, all from one voiced source having been both aroused and arising from ONE. "ATU" is what the Emerald Tablets is all about, Aleph and Tua = ATU = The gateless Gate..etc, that would however lead to, through many gates and from.

tim

[CFTraveler]

as above so below, as below so above; as within so without, as without so within; (and i cannot remember the rest of it)

Here is ne translation of The Emerald Tablet (http://www.tree.org/b1d.htm)- the latin can be found in the link.

"Truly, without Deceit, certainly and absolutely —

That which is Below corresponds to that which is Above, and that which is Above corresponds to that which is Below, in the accomplishment of the Miracle of One Thing. And just as all things have come from One, through the Mediation of One, so all things follow from this One Thing in the same way.

Its Father is the Sun. Its Mother is the Moon. The Wind has carried it in his Belly. Its Nourishment is the Earth. It is the Father of every completed Thing in the whole World. Its Strength is intact if it is turned towards the Earth. Separate the Earth by Fire: the fine from the gross, gently, and with great skill.

It rises from Earth to Heaven, and then it descends again to the Earth, and receives Power from Above and from Below. Thus you will have the Glory of the whole World. All Obscurity will be clear to you. This is the strong Power of all Power because it overcomes everything fine and penetrates everything solid.

In this way was the World created. From this there will be amazing Applications, because this is the Pattern. Therefore am I called Thrice Greatest Hermes, having the three parts of the Wisdom of the whole World.

Herein have I completely explained the Operation of the Sun."

So you don't have to reverse anything, because it it the same, above and below.

[Tutor]

"reverse' meaning only in the particular word as "turning" that IT is a two way street, a polarity.

as i've often said, these words betray us, but we would use/utilize them toward the best purpose of paraphrasing what truly is as "nothing new under he sun".

but this polarity is not of the relative world, to be sure. these words you've copy/pasted are on an absolute verticle polarization toward and into, thus intersecting what is our world pov as horizontal polarity - bad and good. 3rd eye

one can lay such in here in an absolute fashion as you have, yet they are going to be read in relative betraying terms. this is usually why i do not copy and paste such age old remarkables.

i generally lay it out into relatives with absolute hooks so that folks can go looking for themselves. we are not given fish to eat so we can sit around without meaning and purpose, but we are taught how to fish so that by example others see how to fish, toward equal meaning and purpose of all concerned.

god is not creative of appetites without the means to purposefully feed themselves.

pretty much everything in that copy/pasted quote has to do with our within, and nothing to do with our relative stance from externals derived.

sure, it is all relatively used words, but means little to nothing without any one's being/becoming absolutely conscious within of their true utility.

and that's not to say that I am personally absolutely conscious of the true utility within myself. but, i do understand the difference between usage and utility, and am therefore becoming, just like everyone else is I faithfully suspect.

ergo, even as the winds do blow, also does the sun suck, it redeeming all things through and through, toward newness in every breath taken up, and once again given out in exhaled wonderment.

it is unceasing renewal. the breath - inhalation, held, exhalation, held...ad infinitum.

'one' holds twice (behold/uphold) a child born twice

'one' inhaling refuses nothing - masculine - father of all

'one' exhaling gives everything - feminine - the body of (Child) born thrice, which lends to "it is not what one takes into their mouth that defiles them, it is what would come out of the mouth that may defile" - paraphrase.

therefore, what would you, thought bearing, have said of the world outlying? thus, carefully holding that thought born on the exhalation, and inhale toward nurturing held within.

physician heal thyself as 'whole', for even as you do not realize it, you systemically are wholey causal to what the world is in the sharing of mass effects. be account-abled 'in' the inhalation and response-abled 'of' the exhalation. hold this earth and hold our world upon it as uttermost sacred, or you are not being sacredness indeeds.

three living things as one, orchestrating Life 'as it is'.

:D

[dreamosis]

Hmmm...I've pretty much taken it for granted that "As above, so below" implies "As below, so above."

For the sake of interest, Jesus taught the second principle in the gospels:



Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." - NIV

Of course, reading over that verse, it seems like being able to bind on earth/heaven requires the "keys of the kingdom." What are these "keys"? An understanding of the principles of energy/soul/spirit?

A useful view of the principle of Correspondence (as it's called in The Kybalion) is that: what happens in the body can affect the soul, or at least the interface between body and soul.

This is interesting to consider in the context of Energy Feeders. If a person constantly dwells on negative emotions, their physical body may eventually become habituated to them, perhaps even less able to experience positive emotions. I'm only speculating here, but in the same way that the connective tissue and muscles become hardened over time by bad posture (and make it more difficult to maintain a healthy posture), the body and brain could become "hardened" by negative emotion and less able to maintain or initiate positive emotion.

If this can happen, what does that mean in terms of the body/mind/spirit worldview? I would say it means that the spirit, by nature positive, is less able to communicate to the body. A person less connected to their own inner source, might be likelier to predate upon others -- to try to tap the energy-well of others.

Of course, in practice no one gets to be in quicksand depression by the action of their body alone. It's the mind/soul that's dwelling on negativity and the body is the victim, if you will, of that dwelling. So what you have is the above affecting the below, but evenutally you have the below affecting the above too. We may be very ready to move on from a wound or trauma on a mental level...but if that trauma (even if only emotional) has seriously affected our physiology, we will have to deal with the effects of that trauma for as long as it takes the body to reset or heal.

So it's easy to see how a person could be trapped in cycles of vampirism. Even if they consciously want to choose positive attitudes, etc., their body may be telling them that they're hopelessly unhappy and there's no point. From months or years of indulging in negativity, the body is accustomed to producing the chemicals of negativity.

[ButterflyWoman]

Matt 16:19 “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." - NIV
Note, also, that Jesus noted that the Kingdom of Heaven was not "above" but rather WITHIN.

Just a thought.

[dreamosis]

Further directional complications! Yay!

So what you bind without is also/can be bound within...

[ButterflyWoman]

As within, so without. That which is "without" is a direct reflection of that which is "within". That's how I read it, anyway.

[dreamosis]

Sheesh, this shows how metaphorical words can be. What does "within" really mean? Is the spirit really "inside"? Inside what? The body? Heart? The cells? The mitochondria? The nuclei of your atoms?

Spirit doesn't exist in a direction, it's in a place without direction. Even that is confusing, though, if it isn't read as metaphor -- since, for it to make sense, you have to understand "place" as metaphorical.

At any rate, to be sure, Feasters appear when there's an overemphasis on the finite-ness of life. Those who are regularly in contact with the infinite, don't need to prey on others.

[Tutor]

hee hee

i reckon that any direction is from within take towards. ere>go, all directions are within leaving no 'without' or lack therein.

imma takin a break for a spell...se yuns later...

[ButterflyWoman]

Sheesh, this shows how metaphorical words can be. What does "within" really mean? Is the spirit really "inside"? Inside what? The body? Heart? The cells? The mitochondria? The nuclei of your atoms?
We perceive that we have "inner" thoughts, ideas, feelings, etc. Then there's the "outer" world of objects, other people, food, random stuff we interact with.

People tend to think that "outside" things will make them happy, will nourish them, will guide them, etc. etc., but all that is really a reflection of that which we perceive to be our own "inner" world. Which gets back nicely to the topic, methinks.

It's about perception, not about literalism. ;)

[dreamosis]

It's about perception, not about literalism. ;)

Yes, of course, there's no need to get complicated. Our awareness is spatial. I don't experience emotions as happening ten feet in front of me, I perceive them as happening within the bounds of my body (or sometimes, energy field).

Over a lifetime a human can come to associate satisfying interactions with the world-out-there with the world-within, thus coming to the dubious conclusion that such interaction caused the satisfaction. Yet, on a fundamental, body-level is this true, or close to true. Cool, clean water can cause a bodily satisfaction. The mistake is in applying the dynamics of the body to all levels of being in all situations.

Comments I get frequently from suspected Feasters is "You make me feel so good," "I feel so good around you," etc. Their feeling good, obviously, isn't necessarily a result of energy-feeding (or energy-tasting), but they associate their good feeling with me and my presence.

A person enters into energy-feeding patterns, maybe, when the simpler, cause-and-effect dynamics of the body are applied to one's emotional and mental life. (?)

[ButterflyWoman]

Over a lifetime a human can come to associate satisfying interactions with the world-out-there with the world-within, thus coming to the dubious conclusion that such interaction caused the satisfaction. Yet, on a fundamental, body-level is this true, or close to true. Cool, clean water can cause a bodily satisfaction.
That's still perception. It also relies on the assumption that "the body" is some objective thing and not just a projection of the mind. BUT... that's rather a different subject. ;)


A person enters into energy-feeding patterns, maybe, when the simpler, cause-and-effect dynamics of the body are applied to one's emotional and mental life. (?)
Maybe. That's a really interesting thought.

[dreamosis]

...A person enters into energy-feeding patterns, maybe, when the simpler, cause-and-effect dynamics of the body are applied to one's emotional and mental life...

One way, in which I can see how applying bodily cause-and-effect dynamics to the mind, is damaging is with psychoactive drugs. Of course, psychoactive drugs -- like ecstasy or mushrooms -- have an effect in the energy body, but they're primarily physical substances that affect us "bottom-up."

Ecstasy can trigger a cascade of serotonin in the body, which typically translates to the mind as extreme joy. The joy isn't necessarily unreal, but if it were possible on any drug trip to suddenly "pull the blanket out from under yourself," i.e. reverse the serotonin swell, what would you feel? You often hear I like the way I feel on BLANK, but there is a two-part story in the words I feel...

The same applies to the temporary body-rush from food, sex, and danger, of course.

One thing that seems obvious about energy-feeders is that they aren't creating their own energy or in a state of flow with universal energies. (I mean, I suppose there has to be some self-generation and flow, or else they'd be...Hmmm...Headache. They'd be non-existent if that was literally the case. Why am I being so literal in this thread?)

Anyway...energy-feeders are in a situation of low generativity and flow, which means they may turn to "high-calorie" alternatives: substances, behaviors, and situations that tend to supply a lot of energy in a short amount of time. But I want to run with CFTraveler's idea still that energy-feeders aren't necessarily after a lot of energy, but just want a good vibration.

That idea seems somewhat counterintuitive to me unless I switch my focus from the content of behavior to the intent of the behavior. An energy-feeder may use a behavior like extremely childish pouting and, just considering the behavior, it's difficult to see why they'd employ that behavior if what they want is to feel good. Yet the intent behind is the pouting may be to get loving attention from someone. What they want to feel is that they're loved and being paid special attention to.

Maybe what accounts for a lot of the exhaustion in dealing with energy-feeders is the way in which your attention is extorted around them. Feasters are usually asking you to pay close attention to them the whole time you're with them -- to watch them, to listen to them carefully, to think about what they're thinking about, etc. They try to monopolize your attention. And they have to monopolize your attention because that's the only way to get the "high-calorie" rush they want.

[ButterflyWoman]

Just a few random thoughts on this (which occurred to me as I was drifting into a nap).

I have often encountered people who were energy vampires where intelligence is concerned. That is, I'm fairly intelligent, and I've had a shocking amount of people who either were really stupid/ignorant or who pretended to be, who would hit me up for information, assistance, etc., and be really draining about it. Until I started to really think about it, I didn't connect it with energy vamps, but I'm sure now that this is one way that people do it. (Note: I am in no way claiming that ignorance = vampirism, only that SOME energy vampires use "information" as a means of sucking attention and energy, and if you're naturally inclined to be helpful, it's an easy trap to fall into.)

This thread is really interesting. I'd like to thank everyone who has been participating. :)

[dreamosis]

Yes, CaterpillarWoman, I can easily see how asking for information would work as an energy-feeding strategy.

One of the underlying, crucial requirements for energy-feeding appears to be hooking the attention. No doubt that energy-feeding can happen under the radar of consciousness, but that would be more like...a "direct current" supply to a feeder, whereas with active attention there's the possibility for "alternating current" supply.

Providing active attention to a feeder could lead to becoming energetically entangled with them.

Think of watching TV. If you're like me, you might find sometimes you become "lost" in TV (which is why I don't have an antenna for my TV). By get lost I mean that my attention becomes hooked to the flow of images and sound and I'm no longer thinking -- my mind is filled up with the experience of the image flow. This is fun and enjoyable with a good movie or play or book, but is usually disturbing with the news or commercials. A lot of people have talked about this with TV; it's like you can fall into an inverse trance (body awake, mind asleep).

Of course I've been able to watch TV and stay actively aware, with my point of attention "unhooked," still inside me, and in a neutral observer state. (For me attention is very spatial; "inside me" generally equals self-aware -- except in the case of OBEs.)

So I think that attention can get hooked, or entangled, in all kinds of situations involving people, but energy-feeders might be particularly adept at hooking the attention in the same way as TV news. Energetically, Feeders are broadcasting the same signal over and over. One of the worst type of feeders, to me, are those who endlessly rehash the past. I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I've certainly been there, but as I think about it now what's happening energetically is this: by endlessly rehashing the same memories, thoughts, emotions, and mental projections, it's like they're swirling their finger in a coffee cup creating a whirlpool.

Extending that metaphor, try to imagine that we're all coffee cups, except the cup part of us is permeable, and we exist in a greater sea of coffee. If another coffee cup near us starts spinning and spinning, eventually a force is exerted on us, and some of the coffee from our cup is pulled toward them.

The more you indulge in negative thoughtloops, willfully or unwillfully, the harder they are to stop. They build up momentum. And they begin to affect others.

(...This is all pure conjecture, by the way -- albeit based in intuition and reflection...)

If a person is a notorious feeder, if everyone recognizes it whether they're energy-aware or not, the Whirlpool Effect is probably present. Again, you'll hear people who aren't energy-aware saying things like, "She's so draining to be around," "She sucks my will to live."

It may be too -- and this jives with my personal experience -- that it's difficult to be around hugely negative people just because of the feeling of turbulence. It's like they're invisibly thrashing and making waves.

Clearly there's an opposite of the Whirlpool Effect. Some people are like beam of sunlight or a gentle wind. Some feel stagnant, which can be disturbing too.

To get back to the thoughts above, though: Some feeders, in my experience, emit a hypnotizing signature. I think the energy they're sending out has a soporific effect because it's steadily negative, like a drum beat or the throbbing of a badly inflamed bruise. Dwelling on negative emotion upsets the give-and-take of energy in your energy body, cutting off your intake. (Positive emotion is radiant; negative emotion is gravitational?) With the attention hooked by a feeder, and self-awareness getting eclipsed, a heavier drain is possible than if you remain unentangled and self-aware. Negative thoughtloops, and feeders, are examples of out-of-control positive feedback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_feedback

[ButterflyWoman]

Some feeders, in my experience, emit a hypnotizing signature. I think the energy they're sending out has a soporific effect because it's steadily negative, like a drum beat or the throbbing of a badly inflamed bruise.
What an incredibly poetic piece of prose (ooh, alliteration!). I just wanted to note that. It's beautiful.


Dwelling on negative emotion upsets the give-and-take of energy in your energy body, cutting off your intake.
Yes. This is my observation and experience (I used to be quite the energy vampire, myself, though I had no conscious awareness of it at the time).


With the attention hooked by a feeder, and self-awareness getting eclipsed, a heavier drain is possible than if you remain unentangled and self-aware. Negative thoughtloops, and feeders, are examples of out-of-control positive feedback.
Oh, ouch. Yes. Yes, that's right. I say "ouch" because I just saw, with shocking clarity, how a younger (and very different!) version of myself used to use a combination of stuff (depending on whose attention I was trying to get) to hook someone in. My primary tactic was drama of one sort or another, but I used whatever I had to (sex, helplessness, vulnerability, rage, etc.).

*sigh* I keep being shown these little flashes of who I used to be, for me to accept, forgive, and process, and be grateful that I'm not that person any more. (This is what I get for doing a "remove obstacles" ritual! LOL!)

I shared that because I wanted to express my gratitude. Thank you. :)

[dreamosis]

@CaterpillarWoman: You're very welcome. This is a good thread. I'm learning a lot by exchanging ideas with you.

Last year has a hard year for me. I was almost constantly caught in negative loops of memory, thought, emotion, and mental projection. I felt out of control. It was like I was in a whirlpool. I was responsible for it, but now that I think about thoughtloops having momentum, I see why I was so miserable and why I was unbearable to be around too.

If a person is dizzy and nauseous from a merry-go-around, it's easy to say that someone, "Well, it's your fault. You got on the merry-go-round and you're the one that pushed it faster and faster by kicking off the ground." And it's true. But, with a merry-go-round, at some point, you don't have to push anymore -- you've gather momentum and it spins all by itself. I think something similar can happen in the mind-field (and body). When we repeatedly "spin" our mind, at certain point we don't have to do the "spinning" anymore. And if we react to our out-of-control mind with more anger, worry, fear, ingratitude, avoidance, and meanness, we enter a positive feedback loop.

[CFTraveler]

If a person is dizzy and nauseous from a merry-go-around, it's easy to say that someone, "Well, it's your fault. You got on the merry-go-round and you're the one that pushed it faster and faster by kicking off the ground." And it's true. But, with a merry-go-round, at some point, you don't have to push anymore -- you've gather momentum and it spins all by itself. I think something similar can happen in the mind-field (and body). When we repeatedly "spin" our mind, at certain point we don't have to do the "spinning" anymore. And if we react to our out-of-control mind with more anger, worry, fear, ingratitude, avoidance, and meanness, we enter a positive feedback loop. This one is a keeper.

[Red Arrow]

Oh, well, if it's in Wikipedia it MUST be true! :P :lol: :twisted:


ROTFLMAO!

[boris]

You don't have to reply, but is this one a keeper CFT?


:wink:

*spank spank*

[Red Arrow]

As within, so without. That which is "without" is a direct reflection of that which is "within". That's how I read it, anyway.

Yes, I do as well.

[Red Arrow]

... try to imagine that we're all coffee cups, except the cup part of us is permeable, and we exist in a greater sea of coffee. If another coffee cup near us starts spinning and spinning, eventually a force is exerted on us, and some of the coffee from our cup is pulled toward them.

The more you indulge in negative thoughtloops, willfully or unwillfully, the harder they are to stop. They build up momentum. And they begin to affect others.

(...This is all pure conjecture, by the way -- albeit based in intuition and reflection...)

It is an excellent metaphor, nonetheless. I strongly agree, in the context of Feeders as well as for life in general, for anyone seeking to be self-aware. Negative thoughtloops/feedback loops can truly take on a moment of their own and root into one's cellular memory (that merry go round earlier mentioned! Another good one), and then it is that much harder to recalibrate the psyche, as well as one's vibration.


If a person is a notorious feeder, if everyone recognizes it whether they're energy-aware or not, the Whirlpool Effect is probably present. Again, you'll hear people who aren't energy-aware saying things like, "She's so draining to be around," "She sucks my will to live."

It may be too -- and this jives with my personal experience -- that it's difficult to be around hugely negative people just because of the feeling of turbulence. It's like they're invisibly thrashing and making waves.

Clearly there's an opposite of the Whirlpool Effect. Some people are like beam of sunlight or a gentle wind. Some feel stagnant, which can be disturbing too.

To get back to the thoughts above, though: Some feeders, in my experience, emit a hypnotizing signature. I think the energy they're sending out has a soporific effect because it's steadily negative, like a drum beat or the throbbing of a badly inflamed bruise. Dwelling on negative emotion upsets the give-and-take of energy in your energy body, cutting off your intake. (Positive emotion is radiant; negative emotion is gravitational?) With the attention hooked by a feeder, and self-awareness getting eclipsed, a heavier drain is possible than if you remain unentangled and self-aware. Negative thoughtloops, and feeders, are examples of out-of-control positive feedback.

Yes, well said.

Many of your posts in this topic I've wanted to comment on, Dreamosis. However, this really hits the mark for me in my own experiences with these types (and having grown up with one as a parent).

I'd also add - or rather expand on as you've hinted to this as well - that there are those who are very, very stealth and may carry a glamour which hides the miasma; they are so good as to warrant a name all their own (hmmm, not sure what, just yet... :roll: Uber, or Master Feeder? Feeder Divas? :wink: ). Yes, Positive emotion is radiant indeed - and a really seasoned, possibly for many lifetimes, Feeder is talented in being able to initially draw one into their 'whirlpool' with shiny, attractive support and seeming good intentions when they set their sights on a yummy Energy in another. They use mirrors by which they attempt to reflect back what they dearly want/need for themselves vibrationally - meaning, they reflect your own goodness to you, so that you are pulled in by that drumbeat which you recognize subconsciously, you feel a 'connection' with them, and this is part of the allure. Usually the mirror at some point becomes too heavy, or they simply get lazy and lose their grip. If one is self-aware and attentive, they can see the Feeder for what they are in those moments and hopefully dis-engage.

Great thread!

[velvet]

In my experience, sometimes my sister takes energy and I'm hardly doing anything. It is probably because she is someone who talks too fast and wants everything fast. Its like she has all this energy but I feel tired.

[Beekeeper]

Just caught up. Well worth it!

Dreamosis, you express it so well!

[CFTraveler]

I'd also add - or rather expand on as you've hinted to this as well - that there are those who are very, very stealth and may carry a glamour which hides the miasma; they are so good as to warrant a name all their own (hmmm, not sure what, just yet... :roll: Uber, or Master Feeder? Feeder Divas? :wink: ). Yes, Positive emotion is radiant indeed - and a really seasoned, possibly for many lifetimes, Feeder is talented in being able to initially draw one into their 'whirlpool' with shiny, attractive support and seeming good intentions when they set their sights on a yummy Energy in another. They use mirrors by which they attempt to reflect back what they dearly want/need for themselves vibrationally - meaning, they reflect your own goodness to you, so that you are pulled in by that drumbeat which you recognize subconsciously, you feel a 'connection' with them, and this is part of the allure. Usually the mirror at some point becomes too heavy, or they simply get lazy and lose their grip. If one is self-aware and attentive, they can see the Feeder for what they are in those moments and hopefully dis-engage.

Great thread! Hmm, I've known a couple of people like that. Those are the ones you initially don't like "for no apparent reason", you feel guilty about not liking them, and later on find out why. I've known a few people like that in my life. The bait-and switch feeders.

[dreamosis]

...there are those who are very, very stealth and may carry a glamour which hides the miasma; they are so good as to warrant a name all their own (hmmm, not sure what, just yet... :roll: Uber, or Master Feeder? Feeder Divas? :wink: ).

I like "Feeder Diva". :) I'm going to use that.

Also, what we're describing now is bordering on Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

http://web.archive.org/web/200501060451 ... sticpd.htm (http://web.archive.org/web/20050106045157/behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/narcissisticpd.htm)

Feeders using glamors especially resembles this trait of NPD:


(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

To be a truly effect exploiter, one has to employ subtle manipulation, one has to have a front, a mask, a valence, a smokescreen, a glamor.



They use mirrors by which they attempt to reflect back what they dearly want/need for themselves vibrationally - meaning, they reflect your own goodness to you, so that you are pulled in by that drumbeat which you recognize subconsciously, you feel a 'connection' with them, and this is part of the allure.

This hits close to home for me. I've experienced this too. I think two things are going on here:

(1) there are feeder divas who are consciously manipulative, mirroring back your words to you so as to build a rapport of trust; (2) there are lower level feeders who, because of a lack of substance, automatically and subconsciously mimic others. If we focus exclusively on the surface, especially on words, it's very easy to be tricked and think we've met a kindred spirit when we're really dealing with a skilled manipulator or a shallow person without much of a stable identity.


The bait-and-switch feeders.

I would hazard to say that if you consistently experience this with a person, you're dealing with a feeder diva.