is it possible to learn new things in LD's or OBE's ?

[sleepingbeauty]

ouah, I had an amazing day at work today, they organize lectures during lunchtime and today's topic was 'the brain' 300 people attended which is a real miracle. the neuroscientist is really specialized in the science of the brain, but he has the philosophy that "brain = super modern computer'
although I told him that as soon as he was talking about emotions etc...he was using the word "mind" as opposed to brain and asked him whether the mind was part of the brain.
anyway, after the lecture, I went and asked him about these galantamine pills because they work wonders for me but I barely use them because there are so many warning on internet. He said that as long as it didn't give side effects, it is fine to take them. I insisted on the long term and he said they were ok. I want to keep my reservation but I'm really wondering what people really working in that field think about galantamine.
During the lecture he said something like "we learn things during the night, but NEVER new things, it's impossible"
Now, I'm not an expert in lucid dreaming and I don't believe that anything is possible in LD's as my last one didn't allow me to fly to the moon ( :x :x )... but,
I'm wondering if what he said is true and if it is not, then I would propose that I ask a teacher to teach me a langage I don't know at all during my dreams to prove that it is possible to learn new things, I could try to call for an entity to teach me even if I'm not aware of it.
I know what I'm writing sounds crazy but it all comes down to that : is it possible to learn something we cannot possibly know during a dream ? (problem solving is not really a new thing as you know the problem, you know the theory behind but have not made a link between the two).
it would such a great way to prove that, spookie spookie, there is something out there !
I hope it makes sense

[CFTraveler]

If you believe that the brain generates the mind, then it's not possible. But if you think that the mind uses the brain to integrate knowledge, both physical and nonphysical, then all bets are off.
I personally have received 'new' information in the hypnagogic state (which is not technically the dreaming state) so I know what's true for me.

[sleepingbeauty]

he said he'd reconsider his job and beliefs if I could do it..... Let's try it ! I am so enthousiastic I wish and hope and am sure it can be successfully done and proved. I need to choose a language !

[CFTraveler]

Why do you care what his beliefs are?
And how are you going to do it?

[sleepingbeauty]

Let me think about it.... And let me experience the dream world......
..... I'm novice but full of enthusiasm !! It's 1.35am here I'll try to induce an ld in about 3 hours ....
I'll let you know !
I speak French and a bit of English, german and Dutch. I'll ask to learn chinese !
It's very different from the other ones ....And it's useful !

Seriously, i ll try my best to prove it's possible to learn something 'new'

[heliac]

Hi Sleeping beauty,

Can you give a few examples of what you would consider new?

If you mean new as in a re-ordering/re-arrangement of previously existing ideas/knowledge then i would say you can. Sometimes i get obsessed with playing the piano and i will end up playing all day up until when i go to bed and i have dreamt of music i have never heard before.Sometimes i can hear it for a second or two in my head after i have woken up and then it fades and the notes get totally erased.There have been a few times where i have scrambled to get to the piano before its gone but i can never seem to retain the memory completely.

I'm having trouble putting this idea into words but i would also say that what happens to you in dreams/oob can carry over into the real world. In other words if something stressful occurs to you in a dream or oobe and then a similar new stressful event occurs to you in the real world you will kind of feel like you have been there before and could potentially handle the stressful event in the real world better even though it is something new to you.

I can give a personal example of this but it is just a reallly baaaad example DON"T TRY IT AT HOME. So i went to a birthday party and i ate some seafood, muscles. On top of that i had two beers and 3 or 4 vodka tonics. At some point i got really really really really sick. I tried to make my way home by walking and i was just so messed up that it felt like i was walking through thick water, a lot like how it feels when i get oobe. I noticed that it felt like how it did when i get oobe and just kept fighting to move and walk until i made it home something like 3 hours later though, HA!

Probably not the best example of how coping strategies for stressful events in dreams/oobe is transferable to "new"stressful real world experiences but i hope it makes some kind of sense.


BUT if you mean new as in something that is just out of our scope/physical limitations, like seeing a new color i would say no.I believe we are limited to what our brains can process and there are some things that we just can't do, i wouldn't be surprised if there were some ideas or sources of knowledge that are out there that are beyond human understanding as well. Of course i speak for myself.

[sleepingbeauty]

I didn't do anything last night as I went out and couldn't fall asleep easily. tonight is the night yeh yeh...
I am not trying to prove him wrong or right to be honest, but it could be nice to test whether his statement is right. This guy accepts that people obe/astral project and lucid dream but he says that we are just processing images that we have already seen, people in the tram etc.... and combine them to make a new scene. it therefore looks cool and new but it is just image processing. For him, remove viewing can be explained by the fact that we do have an amazing radar system in the brain which sends signals anywhere and can get a modulated signal back with what we wanted to see and/or hear. However, it will die with us as the brain dies. I do respect his beliefs (I call it beliefs as he is making a lot of assumptions). I respect it but do not agree. It is really like a game, it really costs nothing to do it.
But yes I'm really talking about NEW things that we cannot possibly know beforehand (like the study of a language for which you've never read a book nor have watched tv in that language etc...)
to be honest, it would be marvellous, if only I had known that beforehand !..I could have skipped half of the lectures at uni and would have attended them in my dreams with a private lecturer ! hihihi
it might benefit our kids ! I reacall my history and geography courses, they were sooo soporiphic....I might as well study them when I'm sleeping !

[Korpo]

Hello, sleepingbeauty.


it might benefit our kids ! I reacall my history and geography courses, they were sooo soporiphic....I might as well study them when I'm sleeping !

Imagine you are lucid and had to learn geography. I think the effect it had on you would be just the same... ;) I'd rather learn something I can only there.

I remember Monroe reporting about his "night classes," and I read about them in many places, where we learn useful skills and better solutions than we usually resort to, but since we are not lucid we do not really benefit. I saw one report that sounded as if for the out-of-body teachers it is like teaching a class of people sleeping right in front of them. Of course they're asleep - but here asleep means not lucid, not taking advantage of their sleep.

Be well,
Oliver

[sleepingbeauty]

how ironic, I put the alarm to 3am and never woke up. woke up at 5.45 and got mad at myself for not waking up earlier. I thought I might as well try to induce a dream at that point, but ended up having vibrations got paralized and had an OBE !
I only recall that I managed to separate, went and had a look at myself in a mirror I got rid of a week ago ! thought I looked really wierd so decided to have a look at myself in the mirror on the cupboard and strangely, something was telling me to dive in the mirror but I didn't want to because I wanted to stay in the real time zone, then I felt this huge force pulling me backwards and....blackout
I'm not going to complain though, I prefer obe's
the test will need to be carried out tonight instead...

[sleepingbeauty]

"Imagine you are lucid and had to learn geography. I think the effect it had on you would be just the same... I'd rather learn something I can only there."

well, imagine the teacher tells you about the pacific and tells the class to fly with him to discover the islands, etc... I would LOVE that course !

[sleepingbeauty]

I got lucid at some point last night, as soon as I realized it I called for someone to help me answering two questions. I met this woman who was behaving with me like a mother would behave with a child, it was very bizarre. It looked like she was soo happy to meet me.
I first explained her that I come from planet earth and that she's only seeing my mental projection because my physical body is in a bed (hihihii), unfortunately, I don't recall what she answered, I think she was just listening to me with admiration !
I asked her a first question "how can I obe from a lucid dream ?" ...she said she didn't know
just one thing, she looked caucasian with chinese eyes...
I then asked her if she could teach me chinese because it was a test I proposed to my fellow people on earth. She said she couldn't do that but that she knows someone who might be able to help me, she promised to help me next time.
RIGHT...
I then drifted into non-lucidity
I'm a bit disappointed, but I guess I should try and think about her in my next LD, I hope she will appear again

[Beekeeper]

Well, your experiment is progressing. :wink: Don't lose too much sleep!

Robert Moss routinely brings back foreign words, sometimes from old languages that he subsequently verifies. I suggest you read one of his books.

We do get information that is new in the sense that we often know things we couldn't have known that are part of objective reality. For instance, knowing a loved one has passed unexpectedly, knowing a natural disaster has occurred, knowing a place you haven't been physically or knowing that your friend is going to give birth to a girl. (I have a friend who dreamt her friend gave birth to an octopus. There was a pregnancy and when the little girl was born she only had four fingers on each hand).