is there 12 astrolgical enities

[Prince_of_light36]

I am talking about the zodiac, which I am into. It is very interesting to learn about the 12 signs - very interesting. The 12 signs contain energy that influence people. They can make people very emotional like a Cancer or very rebellious like a Aquarian. Is there 12 enities? Why do they influence people?

[CFTraveler]

The 'Official' Zodiac has 12 signs which are symbolized by 12 constellations, but there are astrologers who believe there originally were 13 (http://the-red-thread.net/ophiuchus2.html), and one got 'removed' or made 'less important' with the advent of Christianity and it's usage of the number 12 to represent archetypes and divinity in general.
Each sign has an element and an archetype (or two, sometimes), and, as many metaphysically aware people are, archetypes are supposed to be 'preexisting'. (For more info see the AD Pedia on archetypes).

There are many theories on why the astrological sign is significant, and two of my favorites are:

The statistical explanation- in ancient times, since astrologers were the scientists of the time, they noticed that people born at certain times of the year exhibited certain properties, and they created the symbol to fit the properties, and assigned the symbol to whatever constellation was in the center of the night sky. This is why constellations don't really look like their 'name', because the name was given to explain the traits, and not to describe the constellation or galaxy itself.

The EMF explanation- Other theorists postulate that certain times of the year we're exposed to specific patterns and levels of emf and that influences how our brains form as we're growing up. This one really doesn't tickle me as much, because nowadays we're exposed to so much emf that it really should override any other field influence. And whether people believe it or not, astrological signs do seem to describe at least some people really well, especially when time of birth and location are included.

[Prince_of_light36]

Yes, you are right - I know people who act their astrological sign. Thank you for replying! :)

[Tutor]

if you can find some of the old sky/star maps online of ancient days, they do have anthropomorphic entities assigned to the ages. not all are humanlike.

[Palehorse Redivivus]

PoL,

One thing I'm pretty sure on due to experience is that there exists what I call "thoughtform astrology." Which is to say, this system has become so well established for so long, that all the thoughtforms associated with a person's sign attach and become part of that person's persona, which they experience as their own personal traits. Thoughtforms can behave like entities, but are really just advanced AI, a collection of programming that may include a survival instinct, rather than a living being per se.

I found for instance that I had a lot of the traits of a stereotypical Aquarian, but unlike other traits I've been able to change, moderate or otherwise do as I please with, trying to do anything with these kicked up an unusual amount of resistance, which is usually a sign that they didn't originate with myself. Booted the thoughtforms out of my space, resistance gone, traits much more easy to work with.

I do lean toward thinking there may be a valid "genuine astrology" also, though. I've done a little bit of connecting with other planets, same as connecting with earth's resident spirit usually referred to as Gaia, who *do* seem to be living beings (and said planets may also host etheric life, if not physical life, IMO). Said beings may have some kind of influence with people who are aligned with them astrologically via some sort of resonance / connectedness, though that part, I haven't looked as much into.

[Prince_of_light36]

Can I create a thought form to influence me? How to be influenced by it?

[Alienor]

@Prince: People do that all the time. They create thoughtforms that help them get angry more easily or feel more easily scared and such. Most likely you also already created a thoughtform that did influence you.

[ButterflyWoman]

Can I create a thought form to influence me? How to be influenced by it?
Yes, you can create a thought form and give some or even all of your power over to it. Most (all?) deity figures are thought forms, and people are definitely influenced by those.

If you allow a thought form to influence you, it can, just as people can influence you, books can influence you, what you hear on the news can influence you, etc. All of those things are thought forms, as well. You generate your own idea as to who other people are, what the news means, what a book means, etc.

Mind you, I don't know what this does or doesn't have to do with astrology. I'm not much into it (though I have studied it at some length, from both a mystical and a scientific/astronomical point of view).

As a matter of interesting synchronicity, I am right now re-reading, "Magical Use of Thought Forms: A Proven System of Mental & Spiritual Empowerment" by Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki and J. H. Brennan. I very much recommend it for understanding all kinds of interesting things about thought forms and astral magick.

[Prince_of_light36]

Palehorse told me the zodiac is made up of 12 thought forms that influence people by giving their personality traits to them. What is your view of astrology?

[ButterflyWoman]

What is your view of astrology?
I don't put any stock in it. I did when I was younger, but now, I have withdrawn any belief in it, and it doesn't appear to have any effect on me or my life whatsoever. I certainly understand and acknowledge the power of archetypes, of course. I just don't see that the position of the stars necessarily has much to do with it. Some people see a connection, some don't. I'm one who doesn't.

[CFTraveler]

My view of astrology is that it's a nice statistical analysis on people's observed personality trends according to the seasons. I don't really think it has predictive value, though.

[ButterflyWoman]

My view of astrology is that it's a nice statistical analysis on people's observed personality trends according to the seasons.
I've considered that. Some people say it reflects the season in which you were conceived (something about the chemistry in your mother's body changing). But if that were the case, then Gemini would be Sagittarius in the Southern Hemisphere, and Leo would be Aquarius, and so on. ;)

Fact is, the same zodiac constellations are visible in the Southern Hemisphere as in the Northern, and at the same time of year, which, of course, is opposite.


I don't really think it has predictive value, though.
Nor do I.

[Prince_of_light36]

This is not a deep topic. :lol:

[CFTraveler]

This is not a deep topic. :lol: It can be as deep as you want, if you get into mythology and archetypes.

[Prince_of_light36]

My view of astrology that it can influence people. I have studied it and observe people long enough to see that the astrological signs can influence people to a greater or lesser exent - I like it very much. I want to study about the 12 astrological signs more. Are they thought forms? Did people create them?

[ButterflyWoman]

Did people create them?
People invented constellations. Well, not the actual stars, obviously, but humans looked at the patterns and connected the dots and said, "That's Persephone there, and this is Orion, and that's a swan, and that's a bear, and that's a cross, and so forth.

Also note that there are a number of different zodiac/astrology systems. The Chinese use one that goes on a yearly basis, for example, so everyone born in the same year is said to have the same characteristics. The system most familiar to Westerners now is based on the Greek system, but there are yet others.

Some of those systems are vastly different, and propose completely different characteristics and different periods for them to supposedly be in effect. It's all rather arbitrary.

If you grow up believing that because you were born in X year or Y month, you'll be like Z, I don't see why that can't affect you, of course, in the same way that any cultural belief can and does affect you.

As for the thought forms, possibly. But beliefs and thought forms only have as much influence as people allow them to have.

I don't know why this conversation is supposed to be "deep", though. I don't even know what that's actually supposed to mean. ;)

[boris]

I think many embrace astrology because there is something to it and many reject it because, in the words of Edgar Cayce who wrote about it in depth, it doesn't really matter. Astrological factors are pretty apparent I say, but when you try and give it practical value, it becomes elusive. I see it as a field in and of itself that has its effect, but is too abstract and out there for us to really.. do anything with.

[ButterflyWoman]

in the words of Edgar Cayce who wrote about it in depth, it doesn't really matter
Well, there you go.

[Prince_of_light36]

Well, there you go
It does matter - Knowledge is very important


people invented constellations. Well, not the actual stars, obviously, but humans looked at the patterns and connected the dots and said, "That's Persephone there, and this is Orion, and that's a swan, and that's a bear, and that's a cross, and so forth I am talking about the 12 achetypes of the zodiac, not the constellations. Who created the astrological signs?




As for the thought forms, possibly. But beliefs and thought forms only have as much influence as people allow them to have Yes, you are right, but they influence people on a subconscious level as it did with Palehorse.

[ButterflyWoman]

Yes, you are right, but they influence people on a subconscious level as it did with Palehorse.
I don't get your point. Some people are influenced by some thought forms. That's not in dispute.

[Prince_of_light36]

I want to you to read palehorse's post, because I want you to know what I am talking about and tell me what do you think of it. Do you think my grammar is bad?

[ButterflyWoman]

I want to you to read palehorse's post, because I want you to know what I am talking about and tell me what do you think of it.
I did read his post. I have no comments on it. Palehorse is a brilliant bloke, and I appreciate him on many levels (not the least of which is his wicked sense of humour), but his inner landscape and mine are very, very different.

Furthermore, I speak from my OWN experience, not from anyone else's. With due respect to Palehorse, his experiences may or may not have any resonance or meaning to me. If you prefer his comments, then go with that. Why do you need me (of all people!) to comment on the inner reality of someone else, anyway?

By the way, if you don't know who Edgar Cayce is, you should Google him.

[Prince_of_light36]

Furthermore, I speak from my OWN experience, not from anyone else's. With due respect to Palehorse, his experiences may or may not have any resonance or meaning to me. If you prefer his comments, then go with that. Why do you need me (of all people!) to comment on the inner reality of someone else, anyway?


I am sorry, because I thought the information in his post is universal and relevant. I did not know he was explaining his point of view to me. We keep getting mixed up, because we are on different levels. You was coming from an subjective standpoint and I was coming from an objective one. I thought you was speaking from an objective standpoint on my level. out of all the confusion, I don't have a clear grasp of your point of view. Wonderfull exepriance!

[Tutor]

if you have no pov of your own then it is safe to say you'll find no grasp on any other's pov.

i don't see folks as 'inventing' astrology, though they sure did connect some dots and add some names to it. i suspect this gave to astrology that personal touch that they could begin to grasp within themselves a vast and daunting universe.

oddly though, is that the connected dots and names do portray the particular forces to be reckoned with in human terms. i imagine this may seem very childish to our modern povs. however, i also imagine that in our modern povs we lack our childlike wonder that would invariably connect the dots and give personified names.

i think the mods here do a pretty good job of replying to these threads, even when they (threads) make no sense because the op hasnt and isnt attempting to make their own sense of it.

some, i reckon, would drop a quarter in the machine expecting to gain an answer that they've done little or nothing toward gaining. kinda like "Big" with Tom Hanks

am i complaining? nah, just an observation... :?

[Palehorse Redivivus]

I am sorry, because I thought the information in his post is universal and relevant. I did not know he was explaining his point of view to me.

FWIW, I'm of the view that there may be nothing that is truly "universal" -- for everything that seems to be mostly objectively true, you could probably find an exception somewhere, a way to make things work differently, and/or things working differently on their own without your input somewhere else.

What I post, I'm not necessarily suggesting will work the same way for everybody at all times; more like "this was the way I found to deal with this issue which worked; your mileage may vary." :)

In general I think most people who end up on some sort of spiritual or personal development course will probably end up getting rid of internal "stuff" they find isn't serving them, and there are a ton of different ways to approach that. In my case I've found that this programming often tends to end up in more or less well defined packages that can be worked with as such, in much the same way as computer programs. I've also found that authentic Self-parts behave, feel (vibewise) and interact a lot differently from said programs. So, rather than having to figure out, track down and work separately with "programmed trait A, B, C and D" I can just tell my subconscious "delete Aquarius programming" and it will "uninstall" the entire astrological thoughtform as a package. At that point, I can deal with my own self-aspects as themselves, rather than as programmed Aquarians. But, as I said, mileage varies based on one's goals, major premises, understanding and so forth.

[Prince_of_light36]

FWIW, I'm of the view that there may be nothing that is truly "universal" -- for everything that seems to be mostly objectively true, you could probably find an exception somewhere, a way to make things work differently, and/or things working differently on their own without your input somewhere else.

Wow, this thread is very different and growing on a fast rate - it is about point of views of astrology and objectivity. Are you teaching me a lesson about creating my own point of view, rather than finding information from another source? Why are you teaching me this lesson?

[Tutor]

I like that..."delete aquarius programming" PR. i often think of it like a house hooked into the grid of utilitys. my thoughts then are to reverse the situation of the house by going solar and utilizing everything at my personal disposal to perhaps even feed some into the grid for others.

being an aries, i also see that my personality is bound up in certain characteristics. this too for me is more about overcoming these obstacles, just like getting off the grid, or as PR said "delete programming".

wstein said something very powerful over in another thread yesterday on the topic of changing robes, "just go naked".

but, i still imagine that to 'delete', or to reverse, or to get naked; one has to have at least developed a personal pov, begged borrowed or stolen, for there aint nothing new under the sun.

i mean, i have to realize that i am fully clothed, hooked into an enslaving grid, pummeled with programming; to then unclothe, reverse flow, delete...and be 'just me'.

yeah, the monkeys on my back may yet clearly be seen by those i love, but that is love's enduring strength afterall, to despite seeming human weakness, dare to love.

[eyeoneblack]

Like so many, and apparently most of us, I viewed Astrology as something akin to a parlor game. It wasn't until I looked at it in relation to the Cabala that it took on a much greater dimension. This may interest somebody.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x38/eyeoneblack/Hermetics/zodiacqabbalah.jpg

[Prince_of_light36]

Eyeoneblack, thank you for your post.

[Tutor]

Like so many, and apparently most of us, I viewed Astrology as something akin to a parlor game. It wasn't until I looked at it in relation to the Cabala that it took on a much greater dimension. This may interest somebody.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x38/eyeoneblack/Hermetics/zodiacqabbalah.jpg

interesting indeeds.

Earth is where it's at, where we are, in and of it. astounding aint it, this 'here' home of ours?

"evol|love", BlackDog quote

what is personality but dimensionality, one perhaps felt as lesser and the other seen as greater.

to err is human, to forgive is divine. the lesser and greater of 'it'.

peace on earth, under-standing the Moon, Ceeing how to love Her love. perhaps He is Us, the Moon Child resting in Peace, awaiting Peace's momentous birth??? She's taking quite a stoning, called every name in the book, been walked upon to many times to tell. Maybe a Good Man will seek to cover Her, raise Her up and help Her free herself from those relentless accusations.

maybe so...

Peace to ya Bro/Sis,

tim

[Prince_of_light36]

if you have no pov of your own then it is safe to say you'll find no grasp on any other's pov.

Uh, I post my view a couple days ago - Why are you telling me that? I can not grasp Catterpillerlady's view, because I was confused!



i think the mods here do a pretty good job of replying to these threads, even when they (threads) make no sense because the op hasnt and isnt attempting to make their own sense of it.

It does make sense, because I was asking this quetion out of curiosity



i think the mods here do a pretty good job of replying to these threads, even when they (threads) make no sense because the op hasnt and isnt attempting to make their own sense of it.

some, i reckon, would drop a quarter in the machine expecting to gain an answer that they've done little or nothing toward gaining. kinda like "Big" with Tom Hanks

am i complaining? nah, just an observation...

I post this thread, because I want to know about the zodiac. I have a right to ''gain'' an answer from some one, because I was searching for knowlegde. Is it alright with you? Don't try to agrue with me!

[Tutor]

:D

[Prince_of_light36]

You have a very strong heart, beating with very strong contractions, while you wrote that long post for me. :lol: